Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - French RSA rally (Guerner Remi)
2. 02:06 AM - Re: French RSA rally (David Lewendon)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel (Kingsley Hurst)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 07:07 AM - Woodcomp after Sales Service (Paul McAllister)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (nigel henry)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Paul McAllister)
8. 09:19 AM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Frans Veldman)
9. 12:13 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Jos Okhuijsen)
10. 12:18 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Karl Heindl)
11. 02:29 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (houlihan)
12. 03:49 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (josok-e)
13. 03:52 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Carl Pattinson)
14. 04:08 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (Carl Pattinson)
15. 05:20 PM - Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel (JR Gowing)
16. 07:57 PM - Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel (Kingsley Hurst)
17. 09:09 PM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (sblack)
18. 10:03 PM - Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service (josok-e)
Message 1
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| Subject: | French RSA rally |
Hi all,
The french RSA rally will take place in Blois (about 100 miles SW from
Paris) on July 1st to 3rd. Good weather expected, good food and no
landing fee! Hope to see many Europas there. Information on http://www.rsafrance.com/
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: French RSA rally |
If you are going to Blois then you are welcome to come to our own fly
in on Sunday the 3rd of July at La Rogerie Mayenne LF5322. We are
having a sit down lunch in the hangar.
Details here:
http://web.mac.com/comancheman/iWeb/Airfield/Airfield%20pics.html
file:///Users/davidlewendon/Desktop/La%20Rogerie%20Invitation.pdf
Regards
David Lewendon
Home 00 33 243 08 35 41
Mobile 00 33 622 09 41 42
On 26 juin 11, at 09:47, Guerner Remi wrote:
> <air.guerner@orange.fr>
>
> Hi all,
>
> The french RSA rally will take place in Blois (about 100 miles SW
> from Paris) on July 1st to 3rd. Good weather expected, good food
> and no landing fee! Hope to see many Europas there. Information on http://www.rsafrance.com/
> Remi Guerner
> F-PGKL
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel |
Apparently some people want to lower the tail of the aircraft a bit Bob
but I don't know what they hope to achieve. It would make it that much
harder to see over the nose which is already hard enough.
I don't have any drawing other than the instructions that came from
Europa on how to set up the tail wheel spring rod. I did mine as per
the book as I suspect you did too.
Don't worry about all this stuff Bob. Quite often, the list gets a
subject that everybody expounds upon and all it does is serve as a
distraction from what we should be doing.
We have just been away again for the last 3 days to see the house. It
is almost finished . . . . basically only the light fittings and
switches to be installed now. Hopefully, construction will start on the
hangar this week.
I finish up at work on Thursday 30 June and start my long holiday. I
have enough leave to carry me through until March of next year but I
will officially resign before then. You are going to have to start
thinking about a trip up to see our new "Love Shack" mate !
Chat again soon.
K
----- Original Message -----
From: JR Gowing
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Kingsley
I have been looking to try to see a drawing of the tailwheel area to
see what people are wanting to lower- if you have that drawing at hand
in your computer you might send me a copy - but do not waste your own
time getting it up - just say you have not got it there.
JR
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:56 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Kingsley,
Look on the diagram for the tail wheel installation Chapter 23M-7
figure 10. There are some who have expressed interest in reducing the
tail wheel from the 9.25 inches to say 7 inches to get a higher deck
angle.
Do not do this as the geometry of the tail wheel is changed
significantly. Stick with the manual or buy and test your own tail
wheel and set the geometry with this new gear to allow the rudder to
drive the tail wheel, prevent excess castor and proper rudder to
tailwheel geometry so when the tail wheel turns, it does not jam or
cause the tail wheel cable to pull the rudder uncommanded...
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Kingsley Hurst
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Bud,
You said:
"Should the tail wheel spring arm be installed about 2 inches higher
than the manual described, the tail wheel geometry will actually drive
the rudder and flick the tail wheel around when passing 60 degrees
causing the tail wheel to restrict rudder movement and a loss of control
will occur."
Sorry but I'm not sure exactly what you mean . . . . are you saying
that if the rear most part of the tailwheel spring is higher (rear of
fuselage lower) or rear most part of the tailwheel sping is lower (rear
of fuselage higher) ?
Thanks
Kingsley in Oz
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Version: 10.0.1382 / 06/14/11
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel |
Kingsley=0AI don't see any point in lowering the deck angle either. One adv
erse effect will =0Abe to reduce the -ve angle of attack of the tailplane.
And that will reduce the =0Adownload which you need to hold the tailwheel h
ard down to give steering when =0Athe rudder starts to get tired, which it
does below around 20 kts. The rudder =0Awill probably stall at full deflect
ion around this speed. Less steering =0Aauthority.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westn
et.com.au>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, 26 June, 2011 12
:22:45=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel=0A=0A
=0AApparently some people want to lower the tail of the aircraft a bit Bob
but I =0Adon't know what they hope to achieve. It would make it that muc
h harder to see =0Aover the nose which is already hard enough.=0A =0AI don
't have any drawing other than the instructions that came from Europa on
=0Ahow to set up the tail wheel spring rod. I did mine as per the book as
I =0Asuspect you did too.=0A =0ADon't worry about all this stuff Bob. Qui
te often, the list gets a subject =0Athat everybody expounds upon and all
it does is serve as a distraction from =0Awhat we should be doing.=0A =0AW
e have just been away again for the last 3 days to see the house. It is
=0Aalmost finished . . . . basically only the light fittings and switches
to be =0Ainstalled now. Hopefully, construction will start on the hangar
this week.=0A =0AI finish up at work on Thursday 30 June and start my long
holiday. I have =0Aenough leave to carry me through until March of next
year but I will officially =0Aresign before then. You are going to have t
o start thinking about a trip up to =0Asee our new "Love Shack" mate !=0A
=0AChat again soon.=0A =0AK=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A----- Original Message -----
=0A>From: JR Gowing =0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Thursday
, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM=0A>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops
on the monowheel=0A>=0A>=0A>Kingsley=0A>I have been looking to try to s
ee a drawing of the tailwheel area to see what =0A>people are wanting to
lower=93 if you have that drawing at hand in your computer =0A>yo
u might send me a copy =93 but do not waste your own time getting it
up =93 =0A>just say you have not got it there.=0A>JR=0A>From:owne
r-europa-list-server@matronics.com =0A>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly=0A>Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:56
AM=0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail whee
l stops on the monowheel=0A> =0A>Kingsley,=0A>Look on the diagram for
the tail wheel installation Chapter 23M-7 figure 10. =0A>There are som
e who have expressed interest in reducing the tail wheel from =0A>the 9.
25 inches to say 7 inches to get a higher deck angle.=0A>Do not do th
is as the geometry of the tail wheel is changed significantly. =0A>Stic
k with the manual or buy and test your own tail wheel and set the geometry
=0A>with this new gear to allow the rudder to drive the tail wheel, prev
ent excess =0A>castor and proper rudder to tailwheel geometry so when th
e tail wheel turns, =0A>it does not jam or cause the tail wheel cable to
pull the rudder =0A>uncommanded...=0A> =0A>Regards,=0A>Bud=0A>-----
Original Message ----- =0A>>From:Kingsley Hurst =0A>>To:europa-list@matro
nics.com =0A>>Sent:Monday, June 13, 2011 2:16 AM=0A>>Subject:Re: Europa-Lis
t: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel=0A>> =0A>>Bud,=0A>> =0A>>You
said:=0A>>"Should the tail wheel spring arm be installed about 2 inch
es higher than =0A>>the manual described, the tail wheel geometry will
actually drive the =0A>>rudder and flick the tail wheel around when p
assing 60 degrees causing the =0A>>tail wheel to restrict rudder movem
ent and a loss of control will =0A>>occur."=0A>> =0A>>Sorry but I
'm not sure exactly what you mean . . . . are you saying that =0A>>if
the rear most part of the tailwheel spring is higher (rear of fuselage
=0A>>lower) or rear most part of the tailwheel sping is lower (rear
of fuselage =0A>>higher) ?=0A>> =0A>>Thanks=0A>>Kingsley in Oz=0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?E
uropa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://fo
rums.matronics.com=0A>>=0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c=0A> =0A> =0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Europa-List=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution=0A> =0A>=0A________________________________=0A =0A>No virus fou
nd in this message.=0A>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A>Version: 10.0.138
2 / 06/14/11=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-
List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m
atronics.com=0A> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
==================== =0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Hi All,
I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR 3000W
propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the forum about
there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me the 'good, the
bad and the ugly'
Thanks, Paul
Message 6
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| Subject: | Woodcomp after Sales Service |
I have spoken to Woodcomp several times and they are very professional an
d they even have a Europa ! and I will be ordering a new prop this year
for my Europa Nigel Henry
Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp after Sales Service
From: paul.the.aviator@gmail.com
Hi All=2C
I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR 3000
W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the forum ab
out there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me the 'good
=2C the bad and the ugly'
Thanks=2C Paul
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Hi Nigel
Thanks for sharing your experience. I was wondering if you have ever sent
your propeller in for service and if so how responsive are they.
What I am particularly interested in learning about is there after sales
service.
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:52 AM, nigel henry <gbupa@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have spoken to Woodcomp several times and they are very professional
> and they even have a Europa ! and I will be ordering a new prop this
> year for my Europa Nigel Henry
>
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
> I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR
> 3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the
> forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me
> the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the propeller
from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I had no
reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and performs
better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did that at a
local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was missing and got
a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the brushes were
almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
before I have to replace them.
Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
A few notes though:
1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the engine/airframe
characteristics.
2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a potential
future use of the glider wings). The props with feather capability have
a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the Woodcomp
prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it never
allows the RPM to surge off its target.
Hope this helps,
Frans
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Sorry to remember you all that my Woodcomp prop nearly took my life.
I hate to repeat my words, but memories seem to be short.
The propeller i had was equipped with microswitches, which were and
,after a change, still are not designed for outside use.
Nethertheless these switches are mounted on the backplate, open for
weather.
These switches are designed for AC 240 V, not for DC 12 V, and the Amp
rating is way below the current going through them.
The cross-over diodes are specified for less then half the current drawn.
Even when activated only occasionally, it's a design flaw.
Know to me are 3 incidents with short circuiting micro-switches, both
other pilots could land their plane without damage to their plane or
themselves. An incident with a loose gear, causing one of the blades at
a totally diffent angle then the others was reported to me, and never
made it to this forum. This seems to be the happy family show, which i
am now spoiling. :-(
It may well be that there are others, or people never fly in rain. or
are just very lucky.
In my case, to the best of my knowledge, a microswitch short circuited,
taking the prop to a feather situation, shortly after take-off. I had
been flying in heavy rain for hours the other day.
Unless thing have changed is Jyrki the only one who understands English,
if he's not available you are on your own.
After my incident Woodcomp banned the Smart Avionic controller. What
that means is unclear to me. As far as i know, they never got there own
controller working decently.
As for the figures, i've had trouble to keep up with a 912 with a fixed
prop and i was flying with a 914 and a Woodcomp 3000. The only good
figure seems to be the price.
So in short: Save a few, risk your plane and life.
The choice is yours....
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
(enjoying his second life :-)
. 26.6.2011 19:16, Frans Veldman kirjoitti:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl>
>
> On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
>> I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR
>> 3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the
>> forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me
>> the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
> I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the propeller
> from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I had no
> reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and performs
> better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did that at a
> local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was missing and got
> a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
> brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the brushes were
> almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
> before I have to replace them.
>
> Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
> A few notes though:
> 1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
> configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the engine/airframe
> characteristics.
> 2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a potential
> future use of the glider wings). The props with feather capability have
> a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the Woodcomp
> prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it never
> allows the RPM to surge off its target.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Paul=2C
No problem with BEFORE sales service. And it is a good product.I had ordere
d their original (2 instruments) controller and could not get it to work co
rrectly=2C even after receiving a second set. I lost a whole season's flyin
g due to extremely poor response from the factory. Only one person speaks E
nglish=2C and he is not always there. Emails were not answered. Telephone c
alls resulted in : oh=2C he is in a meeting. Promises like: I will ship it
tomorrow would mean nothing was shipped for two weeks.At one point I was so
frustrated that I contacted the Czech Embassy here in Canada and asked the
m to call the factory. After that=2C things improved considerably. Their la
test controller looks much better but I have no idea how it performs. One p
ositive point about their controllers is that they come completely pre-wire
d =2C as opposed to the Smartavionics one=2C which I switched to =2Cwhich i
s a tedious DIY project. Woodcomp did refund the money for the controller.
I found the Woodcomp agents in Canada and the US most unhelpful. The Canadi
an agent especially is a real dickhead and did not seem to have a clue abou
t the product. I had two motor failures=2C and now always carry a spare. On
e was in flight in a very remote area in the US.Woodcomp responded immediat
ely=2C but sent me the wrong motor.I have a 2-blade feathering SR3000/2W
=2C the first on a Europa. I also had the first 10 inch spinner.More recent
ly like last year I mentioned a small amount of play in my blade set=2C and
they sent me a kit f.o.c.for the hub. It was an upgrade consisting of diff
erent gears and spring washers=2C which I installed myself and everything s
eems fine now.So there you have it.If you buy one and with the Smartavionic
s=2C you are unlikely to need any after sales service. You should also orde
r a spare motor and set of brushes to save on future shipping.
Karl
Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp after Sales Service
From: paul.the.aviator@gmail.com
Hi All=2C
I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR 3000
W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the forum ab
out there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me the 'good
=2C the bad and the ugly'
Thanks=2C Paul
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Hi
Further to Jos's comments about his very serious accident I seem to recall
that the Austrian authorities planned to issue a report regarding the
possible cause. I may have missed it so can anyone let me know what it
contained, preferably in English.
Not being an expert in these things I find I have problems linking the limit
switch failure Jos talks about to the fact that for the propeller to go to
fully fine or even beyond fully fine to a beta state requires the motor to
be powered to drive it there. I am sure there may be a mechanism that will
make that happen but I cannot see how it can do that just because a limit
switch fails.
Also my understanding is that Woodcomp do not support the Smartavioncs
controller not surprising really as it is not their product and it is in
competition with them but " banning" it is beyond their remit.
Tim H
On 26 June 2011 20:10, Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi> wrote:
>
> Sorry to remember you all that my Woodcomp prop nearly took my life.
>
> I hate to repeat my words, but memories seem to be short.
> The propeller i had was equipped with microswitches, which were and ,after
> a change, still are not designed for outside use.
> Nethertheless these switches are mounted on the backplate, open for
> weather.
> These switches are designed for AC 240 V, not for DC 12 V, and the Amp
> rating is way below the current going through them.
> The cross-over diodes are specified for less then half the current drawn.
> Even when activated only occasionally, it's a design flaw.
>
> Know to me are 3 incidents with short circuiting micro-switches, both other
> pilots could land their plane without damage to their plane or themselves.
> An incident with a loose gear, causing one of the blades at a totally
> diffent angle then the others was reported to me, and never made it to this
> forum. This seems to be the happy family show, which i am now spoiling. :-(
> It may well be that there are others, or people never fly in rain. or are
> just very lucky.
>
> In my case, to the best of my knowledge, a microswitch short circuited,
> taking the prop to a feather situation, shortly after take-off. I had been
> flying in heavy rain for hours the other day.
>
> Unless thing have changed is Jyrki the only one who understands English, if
> he's not available you are on your own.
>
> After my incident Woodcomp banned the Smart Avionic controller. What that
> means is unclear to me. As far as i know, they never got there own
> controller working decently.
>
> As for the figures, i've had trouble to keep up with a 912 with a fixed
> prop and i was flying with a 914 and a Woodcomp 3000. The only good figure
> seems to be the price.
>
> So in short: Save a few, risk your plane and life.
> The choice is yours....
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> (enjoying his second life :-)
>
> . 26.6.2011 19:16, Frans Veldman kirjoitti:
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl*
>> *>
>>
>> On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
>>
>>> I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR
>>> 3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the
>>> forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me
>>> the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
>>>
>> I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the propeller
>> from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I had no
>> reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and performs
>> better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did that at a
>> local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was missing and got
>> a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
>> brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the brushes were
>> almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
>> before I have to replace them.
>>
>> Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
>> A few notes though:
>> 1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
>> configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the engine/airframe
>> characteristics.
>> 2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a potential
>> future use of the glider wings). The props with feather capability have
>> a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the Woodcomp
>> prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it never
>> allows the RPM to surge off its target.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Frans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Tim,
I've sent the report to somebody who is German en fluently in English,
on his offer to translate. This translation takes an incredible amount
of time obviously.
But, as a matter of fact, the investigator thanks me for diverting from
my line of descent into an occupied office building to trees. The
wreckage was badly burnt. He also reports that he had Woodcomp check the
remains of the propellor, and that they stated that the blades "must
have been at a flyable angle" Also there was no obvious fault with the
engine. It has not been possible to determine what the cause of the
accident was. You may doubt of course that i have summarized properly as
well.
Significant might be also that after the accident Rotax was the first to
talk to me, smartavionics next, the factory was very interested also.
But no question, no word from Woodcomp.
I find it strange that you start an argument by telling us that you are
not an expert. And reach a conclusion, which is false. I am an expert,
electricity, electronics have been my profession and hobby. I know
microswitches and diodes, and if i tell you they are grossly underrated
and not up wet conditions, you can take my word for it.
My only interest is to save your lives. If you don't want it, please let
me know.
So, let me explain how the prop ended in a non-flyable position, so
simple that a non-expert can understand. I commanded via the controller
to go finer. That makes the motor run the blades to fine. The motor runs
then as long as the controller command it to go finer or the fine limit
switch cuts the current. In this case, because the desired rpm was high,
and i was climbing, the fine limit switch should cut in. But it didn't
because it was burnt, and short circuited to earth. The controller
reversed it voltage to increase pitch and we had a short circuit on the
plus now. The circuitbreaker popped. The revs went to 6200, with no
pull. Attempting to reset it booted the controller. Which proved it was
still working, And after the boot it popped again, The accident
conditions were there, low on altitude, low on speed.
I find it amazing that people defend such a product. Everybody i spoke
to privatly admids there have been problems with communication, with
quality of parts, with forgotten or loose parts, splitting blades,
whatever. Oh, of course, they will cut the blades in a banana form, or
apple, or anything else you fancy as fast. Very flexible indeed.
There is a good working product available, has been for years, factory
choice, with only plusses but the price.
Everybody makes a mistake, and i can admit it was my mistake to go on
the cheap and settle for a Woodcomp.
Regards,
Jos
27.6.2011 0:25, houlihan kirjoitti:
> Hi
> Further to Jos's comments about his very serious accident I seem to
> recall that the Austrian authorities planned to issue a report
> regarding the possible cause. I may have missed it so can anyone let
> me know what it contained, preferably in English.
> Not being an expert in these things I find I have problems linking the
> limit switch failure Jos talks about to the fact that for the
> propeller to go to fully fine or even beyond fully fine to a beta
> state requires the motor to be powered to drive it there. I am sure
> there may be a mechanism that will make that happen but I cannot see
> how it can do that just because a limit switch fails.
> Also my understanding is that Woodcomp do not support the Smartavioncs
> controller not surprising really as it is not their product and it is
> in competition with them but " banning" it is beyond their remit.
> Tim H
>
> On 26 June 2011 20:10, Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi
> <mailto:josok-e@ukolo.fi>> wrote:
>
> <josok-e@ukolo.fi>Hi <mailto:josok-e@ukolo.fi%3EHi>
>
> Sorry to remember you all that my Woodcomp prop nearly took my life.
>
> I hate to repeat my words, but memories seem to be short.
> The propeller i had was equipped with microswitches, which were
> and ,after a change, still are not designed for outside use.
> Nethertheless these switches are mounted on the backplate, open
> for weather.
> These switches are designed for AC 240 V, not for DC 12 V, and the
> Amp rating is way below the current going through them.
> The cross-over diodes are specified for less then half the current
> drawn.
> Even when activated only occasionally, it's a design flaw.
>
> Know to me are 3 incidents with short circuiting micro-switches,
> both other pilots could land their plane without damage to their
> plane or themselves. An incident with a loose gear, causing one
> of the blades at a totally diffent angle then the others was
> reported to me, and never made it to this forum. This seems to be
> the happy family show, which i am now spoiling. :-(
> It may well be that there are others, or people never fly in rain.
> or are just very lucky.
>
> In my case, to the best of my knowledge, a microswitch short
> circuited, taking the prop to a feather situation, shortly after
> take-off. I had been flying in heavy rain for hours the other day.
>
> Unless thing have changed is Jyrki the only one who understands
> English, if he's not available you are on your own.
>
> After my incident Woodcomp banned the Smart Avionic controller.
> What that means is unclear to me. As far as i know, they never got
> there own controller working decently.
>
> As for the figures, i've had trouble to keep up with a 912 with a
> fixed prop and i was flying with a 914 and a Woodcomp 3000. The
> only good figure seems to be the price.
>
> So in short: Save a few, risk your plane and life.
> The choice is yours....
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> (enjoying his second life :-)
>
> . 26.6.2011 19:16, Frans Veldman kirjoitti:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans
> Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl <mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>
>
> On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
>
> I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got
> with his SR
> 3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some
> feedback from the
> forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp.
> Please give me
> the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
>
> I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the
> propeller
> from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I
> had no
> reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and
> performs
> better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did
> that at a
> local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was
> missing and got
> a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
> brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the
> brushes were
> almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
> before I have to replace them.
>
> Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
> A few notes though:
> 1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
> configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the
> engine/airframe
> characteristics.
> 2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a
> potential
> future use of the glider wings). The props with feather
> capability have
> a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the
> Woodcomp
> prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it
> never
> allows the RPM to surge off its target.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Frans
>
>
> ===================================
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Hi Paul,
We had to return our prop (second hand) to Woodcomp several times (nothing
to do with reliability - it's a long story).
The gentleman I was dealing with Jiri Holubek (at least I think that's the
correct spelling) was extremely helpful.
On each occasion they replaced almost everything that showed any signs of
wear. Brushes, gears, micro switches, wiring etc and the blades when
returned could be mistaken for new. The prop was also rebalanced on each
occasion
I have only dealt by email but Jiri responds usually the same or next
working day - his English is very good. On each occasion, the prop was
serviced and returned within a week.
Returning the prop to Czechoslovakia is a pricey exercise due to carriage
costs but IMHO well worth it.
If you need any more info email me directly - carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk
Regards,
Carl Pattinson G-LABS
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Sent: 26 June 2011 15:03
Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp after Sales Service
Hi All,
I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR 3000W
propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the forum about
there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me the 'good, the
bad and the ugly'
Thanks, Paul
Message 14
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| Subject: | Woodcomp after Sales Service |
As far as I am aware Woodcomp do not ban the use of the Smart Avionics
controller - Jiri was aware this was the controller of choice for me and
didnt have a problem with it.
Regarding the allegedly faulty micro-switches It has to be accepted that
micro-switches occasionally fail and this is a potential risk. On the
Woodcomp installation there are 2 microswitches that should prevent the
prop going into superfine. If the first one fails, the second one cuts out 1
degree later.
In addition to this, most of the Woodcomp props have a physical stop that
prevents the blades from going into super fine. Its only when the reverse
pitch option is used that this ultimate safety feature is lost.
Moral of the story is don't have a prop that can go into reverse pitch. In
the UK the LAA won't allow a CS prop without physical limit stops for that
very reason.
Carl Pattinson
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of houlihan
Sent: 26 June 2011 22:25
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp after Sales Service
Hi
Further to Jos's comments about his very serious accident I seem to recall
that the Austrian authorities planned to issue a report regarding the
possible cause. I may have missed it so can anyone let me know what it
contained, preferably in English.
Not being an expert in these things I find I have problems linking the limit
switch failure Jos talks about to the fact that for the propeller to go to
fully fine or even beyond fully fine to a beta state requires the motor to
be powered to drive it there. I am sure there may be a mechanism that will
make that happen but I cannot see how it can do that just because a limit
switch fails.
Also my understanding is that Woodcomp do not support the Smartavioncs
controller not surprising really as it is not their product and it is in
competition with them but " banning" it is beyond their remit.
Tim H
On 26 June 2011 20:10, Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi> wrote:
<mailto:josok-e@ukolo.fi%3eHi> >Hi
Sorry to remember you all that my Woodcomp prop nearly took my life.
I hate to repeat my words, but memories seem to be short.
The propeller i had was equipped with microswitches, which were and ,after a
change, still are not designed for outside use.
Nethertheless these switches are mounted on the backplate, open for weather.
These switches are designed for AC 240 V, not for DC 12 V, and the Amp
rating is way below the current going through them.
The cross-over diodes are specified for less then half the current drawn.
Even when activated only occasionally, it's a design flaw.
Know to me are 3 incidents with short circuiting micro-switches, both other
pilots could land their plane without damage to their plane or themselves.
An incident with a loose gear, causing one of the blades at a totally
diffent angle then the others was reported to me, and never made it to this
forum. This seems to be the happy family show, which i am now spoiling. :-(
It may well be that there are others, or people never fly in rain. or are
just very lucky.
In my case, to the best of my knowledge, a microswitch short circuited,
taking the prop to a feather situation, shortly after take-off. I had been
flying in heavy rain for hours the other day.
Unless thing have changed is Jyrki the only one who understands English, if
he's not available you are on your own.
After my incident Woodcomp banned the Smart Avionic controller. What that
means is unclear to me. As far as i know, they never got there own
controller working decently.
As for the figures, i've had trouble to keep up with a 912 with a fixed
prop and i was flying with a 914 and a Woodcomp 3000. The only good figure
seems to be the price.
So in short: Save a few, risk your plane and life.
The choice is yours....
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
(enjoying his second life :-)
. 26.6.2011 19:16, Frans Veldman kirjoitti:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl>
On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR
3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the
forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me
the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the propeller
from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I had no
reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and performs
better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did that at a
local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was missing and got
a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the brushes were
almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
before I have to replace them.
Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
A few notes though:
1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the engine/airframe
characteristics.
2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a potential
future use of the glider wings). The props with feather capability have
a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the Woodcomp
prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it never
allows the RPM to surge off its target.
Hope this helps,
Frans
===================================
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===================================
http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Message 15
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| Subject: | Tail wheel stops on the monowheel |
K
I am not changing the Singleton Tailwheel from what I have now!
Thank you for the invitation to come up there again - I am keeping it ready
for the next opportunity...
Best Wishes to you and Janet!
JR
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst
Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2011 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Apparently some people want to lower the tail of the aircraft a bit Bob but
I don't know what they hope to achieve. It would make it that much harder
to see over the nose which is already hard enough.
I don't have any drawing other than the instructions that came from Europa
on how to set up the tail wheel spring rod. I did mine as per the book as I
suspect you did too.
Don't worry about all this stuff Bob. Quite often, the list gets a subject
that everybody expounds upon and all it does is serve as a distraction from
what we should be doing.
We have just been away again for the last 3 days to see the house. It is
almost finished . . . . basically only the light fittings and switches to be
installed now. Hopefully, construction will start on the hangar this week.
I finish up at work on Thursday 30 June and start my long holiday. I have
enough leave to carry me through until March of next year but I will
officially resign before then. You are going to have to start thinking
about a trip up to see our new "Love Shack" mate !
Chat again soon.
K
----- Original Message -----
From: JR Gowing <mailto:jrgowing@bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Kingsley
I have been looking to try to see a drawing of the tailwheel area to see
what people are wanting to lower- if you have that drawing at hand in your
computer you might send me a copy - but do not waste your own time getting
it up - just say you have not got it there.
JR
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2011 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Kingsley,
Look on the diagram for the tail wheel installation Chapter 23M-7 figure 10.
There are some who have expressed interest in reducing the tail wheel from
the 9.25 inches to say 7 inches to get a higher deck angle.
Do not do this as the geometry of the tail wheel is changed significantly.
Stick with the manual or buy and test your own tail wheel and set the
geometry with this new gear to allow the rudder to drive the tail wheel,
prevent excess castor and proper rudder to tailwheel geometry so when the
tail wheel turns, it does not jam or cause the tail wheel cable to pull the
rudder uncommanded...
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Kingsley Hurst <mailto:kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel
Bud,
You said:
"Should the tail wheel spring arm be installed about 2 inches higher than
the manual described, the tail wheel geometry will actually drive the rudder
and flick the tail wheel around when passing 60 degrees causing the tail
wheel to restrict rudder movement and a loss of control will occur."
Sorry but I'm not sure exactly what you mean . . . . are you saying that if
the rear most part of the tailwheel spring is higher (rear of fuselage
lower) or rear most part of the tailwheel sping is lower (rear of fuselage
higher) ?
Thanks
Kingsley in Oz
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tail wheel stops on the monowheel |
Apologies all . . . . last email was obviously not meant to go to the
list.
Anyway, you all now know what I'm up to.
Cheers
Kingsley
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
I have the mgl ff1 and the ft60 red cube and there is a snag. The ft60 has a k
factor of 68000 but the ff1 only allows k factors up to 60000! Have you dealt
with this Ian?
Thanks
Scott
--------
Scott Black
Montreal
Jodel F11 O-200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344189#344189
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp after Sales Service |
Carl,
Microswitches do not regularely fail. Their MTBF is typical one ot 10
million.
However, thanks for confirming this, in this (Woodcomp) application they
fail for 2 reasons.
Wrong environment, not intended for outdoor use.
Underrated for heavy DC current.
Maybe an example helps. Take a look at the brake-light switch of your
car. It would be a typical place for a microswitch, but instead a 4
times bigger lump sits there. Why? Because it has to switch DC, although
far less then for a heavy motor. Becaue the inside of a car is not
classiefied as dry, although it will seldom rain there.
Failsafing with a second switch does not help.
It just doubles the fail factor.
In case of water ingress this might be clear, there are now 2 paths to
short.
As help for underrated switches, it is even for layman fairly easy to
understand that due to unavoidable mechanical tolerances, the switches
will never switch at te same time. As a result all load will be carried
by one switch.
Until it has melted, which will never be discovered until the second one
goes. Unless it melts to ground.
Another monkey story indeed is the mechanical stop. If all fails, that
should stop the blades from running in idle.
In flying you have to be sure that your minimal pitch is flyable. How
sure are you that your mechanical stop A does keep you in the air and B
does not burn your motor or break the gears? How many of you Woodcomp
jockeys do test their electrical endstops on a regular bases? Who has
ever tested the mechanical endstops?
Maybe its is easyer to forget and just enjoy flying. But recommending
your favourite deathtrap goes really one step too far. Wether you have a
regular, reversing or feathering woodcomp prop. The prop on OH-XJO took
182 hours before it tried to kill me.
Regards,
Jos OKhuijsen
27.6.2011 2:05, Carl Pattinson kirjoitti:
>
> As far as I am aware Woodcomp do not ban the use of the Smart Avionics
> controller Jiri was aware this was the controller of choice for me
> and didnt have a problem with it.
>
> Regarding the allegedly faulty micro-switches It has to be accepted
> that micro-switches occasionally fail and this is a potential risk. On
> the Woodcomp installation there are 2 microswitches that should
> prevent the prop going into superfine. If the first one fails, the
> second one cuts out 1 degree later.
>
> In addition to this, most of the Woodcomp props have a physical stop
> that prevents the blades from going into super fine. Its only when the
> reverse pitch option is used that this ultimate safety feature is lost.
>
> Moral of the story is dont have a prop that can go into reverse
> pitch. In the UK the LAA wont allow a CS prop without physical limit
> stops for that very reason.
>
> Carl Pattinson
>
> *From:*owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *houlihan
> *Sent:* 26 June 2011 22:25
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp after Sales Service
>
> Hi
>
> Further to Jos's comments about his very serious accident I seem to
> recall that the Austrian authorities planned to issue a report
> regarding the possible cause. I may have missed it so can anyone let
> me know what it contained, preferably in English.
>
> Not being an expert in these things I find I have problems linking the
> limit switch failure Jos talks about to the fact that for the
> propeller to go to fully fine or even beyond fully fine to a beta
> state requires the motor to be powered to drive it there. I am sure
> there may be a mechanism that will make that happen but I cannot see
> how it can do that just because a limit switch fails.
>
> Also my understanding is that Woodcomp do not support the Smartavioncs
> controller not surprising really as it is not their product and it is
> in competition with them but " banning" it is beyond their remit.
>
> Tim H
>
>
> On 26 June 2011 20:10, Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi
> <mailto:josok-e@ukolo.fi>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:josok-e@ukolo.fi%3eHi>
>
> Sorry to remember you all that my Woodcomp prop nearly took my life.
>
> I hate to repeat my words, but memories seem to be short.
> The propeller i had was equipped with microswitches, which were and
> ,after a change, still are not designed for outside use.
> Nethertheless these switches are mounted on the backplate, open for
> weather.
> These switches are designed for AC 240 V, not for DC 12 V, and the Amp
> rating is way below the current going through them.
> The cross-over diodes are specified for less then half the current drawn.
> Even when activated only occasionally, it's a design flaw.
>
> Know to me are 3 incidents with short circuiting micro-switches, both
> other pilots could land their plane without damage to their plane or
> themselves. An incident with a loose gear, causing one of the blades
> at a totally diffent angle then the others was reported to me, and
> never made it to this forum. This seems to be the happy family show,
> which i am now spoiling. :-(
> It may well be that there are others, or people never fly in rain. or
> are just very lucky.
>
> In my case, to the best of my knowledge, a microswitch short
> circuited, taking the prop to a feather situation, shortly after
> take-off. I had been flying in heavy rain for hours the other day.
>
> Unless thing have changed is Jyrki the only one who understands
> English, if he's not available you are on your own.
>
> After my incident Woodcomp banned the Smart Avionic controller. What
> that means is unclear to me. As far as i know, they never got there
> own controller working decently.
>
> As for the figures, i've had trouble to keep up with a 912 with a
> fixed prop and i was flying with a 914 and a Woodcomp 3000. The only
> good figure seems to be the price.
>
> So in short: Save a few, risk your plane and life.
> The choice is yours....
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> (enjoying his second life :-)
>
> . 26.6.2011 19:16, Frans Veldman kirjoitti:
>
> Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl <mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>
>
> On 06/26/2011 04:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
>
> I was very impressed with the results that David Joyce got with his SR
> 3000W propeller from Woodcomp. I would like to some feedback from the
> forum about there after sales experience from Woodcomp. Please give me
> the 'good, the bad and the ugly'
>
> I got excellent support and advice when I was ordering the propeller
> from Woodcomp directly and delivery was prompt. After that I had no
> reason to contact them again as the prop works flawlessly and performs
> better than expected. Had to service it at 50 hours and did that at a
> local Woodcomp dealer. Found that one spinner screw was missing and got
> a complete new spinner fastening set free of charge. Ordered spare
> brushes, but at the 100 hour check I discovered that the brushes were
> almost like new and it looks like it is going to take a long while
> before I have to replace them.
>
> Have now 100+ hours but have had no issues with the prop.
> A few notes though:
> 1) I'm using the controller from Smart Avionics which is very
> configurable and able to match the prop exactly to the engine/airframe
> characteristics.
> 2) I have a prop with feather capability (to anticipate a potential
> future use of the glider wings). The props with feather capability have
> a stronger and faster motor. Maybe this is the reason why the Woodcomp
> prop behaves like a hydraulic prop and reacts so fast that it never
> allows the RPM to surge off its target.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Frans
>
>
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