---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/31/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:04 AM - SV: Fuel Pressure Sender (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 2. 03:04 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 07/30/11 (John Greenhalgh) 3. 04:22 AM - Re: Monowheel bulkhead (David Joyce) 4. 04:52 AM - SV: Fuel pressure sender (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 5. 06:00 AM - Re: Oshkosh / Rough River () 6. 10:50 AM - Re: Monowheel bulkhead (Andrew Sarangan) 7. 10:56 AM - English summer evening flight (graeme bird) 8. 11:16 AM - Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear (GBWFH2010) 9. 12:10 PM - Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear (rparigoris) 10. 01:29 PM - Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear (Jeff B) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:29 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender John, The branch-off to the fuel pressure sender should be as close to the carburetors as reasonably possible, as the purpose is to measure the "in-pressure" to the carbs. One easy place is where the fuel line to the right side carb branches off. Here is a T in your installation, I assume. Replace this T with an X (a four-way cross), and connect the sender to the fourth outlet of this cross. If the sender at present is connected to the tank return line after the restrictor (I assume you have a 912/912S), no wonder your EIS does not register any pressure. The restrictor causes a significant pressure drop. The restrictor sits inside the return line, just after it branches off from the fuel line going to the left carb, if done according the Builder's Manual, and is not visible from the outside. Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:29 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 07/30/11 From: John Greenhalgh Thanks for the info on the position of the fuel pressure sender. I'll reposition it. In the EIS manual there are 4 different scales - the 0 to 10 psi appears OK and like wise the resister 200 ohms and Aux SF 250 and AuxOff 47. Just thinking what range is working in your Europa? Best Regards John G-WIKI (Sleap) On 31 July 2011 07:59, Europa-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11-07-30&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-07-30&Archive=Europa > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 07/30/11: 5 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 02:31 PM - Fuel Pressure Sender (John Greenhalgh) > 2. 02:39 PM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender (Brian Davies) > 3. 02:41 PM - Re: Fuel Pressure Sender (Pete Lawless) > 4. 09:44 PM - Monowheel bulkhead (Andrew Sarangan) > 5. 10:05 PM - Re: Monowheel bulkhead (Fred Klein) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:31:27 PM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender > From: John Greenhalgh > > > Hi, > > Any advice on the correct location for a fuel pressure sender. Mine > is fitted to the 'return to tank' tubing and I can't get my EIS to > register (fitted by previous builder). I would have thought the fuel > pressure sender should be in the feed to engine but I'm no expert. If > this is so would it be before or after the mechanical fuel pump? > > I would appreciate any advice on a suitable location of such a device. > Best Regards John. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:39:55 PM PST US > From: "Brian Davies" > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender > > > Hi John, > > Mine is tee'd off from the feed to the carbs. > > Brian Davies > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Greenhalgh > Sent: 30 July 2011 22:28 > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender > > --> > > Hi, > > Any advice on the correct location for a fuel pressure sender. Mine is > fitted to the 'return to tank' tubing and I can't get my EIS to register > (fitted by previous builder). I would have thought the fuel pressure sender > should be in the feed to engine but I'm no expert. If this is so would it > be before or after the mechanical fuel pump? > > I would appreciate any advice on a suitable location of such a device. > Best Regards John. > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:41:45 PM PST US > From: "Pete Lawless" > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender > > > Evening John > > Mine is in the line just before it splits to the carbs and after the take > off for the return. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Greenhalgh > Sent: 30 July 2011 22:28 > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Sender > > > > Hi, > > Any advice on the correct location for a fuel pressure sender. Mine > is fitted to the 'return to tank' tubing and I can't get my EIS to > register (fitted by previous builder). I would have thought the fuel > pressure sender should be in the feed to engine but I'm no expert. If > this is so would it be before or after the mechanical fuel pump? > > I would appreciate any advice on a suitable location of such a device. > Best Regards John. > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Houxou, and is > believed to be clean. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 09:44:58 PM PST US > From: Andrew Sarangan > Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead > > > For the center console bulkhead, I was wondering if it would be better > to build a curved bulkhead that follows the curvature of the wheel > well rather than the flat plywood panel suggested in the manual. This > means the new bulkhead will be further forward than the suggested 8" > from the seat back face. I wasn't sure if this would introduce any > problems in the future. Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:05:08 PM PST US > From: Fred Klein > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead > > Andrew...given that "bulkhead's" fasteners called for in the manual, > I've never thought it had much structural significance...functioning > more to confine divets, turf, etc. forward of the fuel valve than do > much else. That is, however, pure conjecture on my part. > > Fred > A194 > > On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:41 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > >> > >> >> For the center console bulkhead, I was wondering if it would be better >> to build a curved bulkhead that follows the curvature of the wheel >> well rather than the flat plywood panel suggested in the manual. This >> means the new bulkhead will be further forward than the suggested 8" >> from the seat back face. I wasn't sure if this would introduce any >> problems in the future. Any thoughts? > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:11 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead Andrew. The standard design works well and is easy to produce & make reasonably 'crud-tight' - which is what it is there for. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sarangan" Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead > > For the center console bulkhead, I was wondering if it would be better > to build a curved bulkhead that follows the curvature of the wheel > well rather than the flat plywood panel suggested in the manual. This > means the new bulkhead will be further forward than the suggested 8" > from the seat back face. I wasn't sure if this would introduce any > problems in the future. Any thoughts? > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:36 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: SV: Fuel pressure sender John, I have a VDO pressure sender and the Grand Rapids EIS, but I do not have the settings readily available. 0 to 10 psi is a good range. Svein ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:17 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oshkosh / Rough River Dean Seitz... Flying N284A will be flying from Kissimmee FL. ---- Jeffrey Roberts wrote: > HI Jim and all Europa's to Oshkosh, > Don't forget in your meetings to mention to all the flyers that the annual Europa Fly-In at Rough River State Park is coming up September 2nd thru the 4th. or anytime between. Below are a list of those committed and we would surly like to expand on it. I see some new names headed to Oshkosh so it would be nice if someone / Paul ;-) would take the rains of recruitment in Kosh. We need an all out effort to make this one of the best and well attended Europa get togethers on this side of the pond ever! Please let them all know what a wonderful place Rough River is to visit that time of the year!! > > Have FUN at the big show. I wish I was attending but now time right now. > > Regards, > > Jeff Roberts > N128LJ Gold Rush / Changing out my ignition system with the new soft start modules. > > > Bob & Maureen Borger... Flying Dragon Lady N914XL in from Corinth TX > Jim & Lynne Puglise... Doing his best to fly N283JL Jabiru up from Punta Gorda FL. > Jeff & Mary Behrens... Flying Baby Blue in from Baton Rough LA > Jeff & Karen Roberts... Flying Gold Rush in from Nashville Tennessee. > Gary & Susan Leinberger... Flying in the Mooney 3619N from Lancaster PA. > Fred Klein... Flying the Big Iron, for now from Orcas Island Washington ST. > Troy & Donna Maynor... Flying Little Grace N120EU in from Weaverville NC. > Paul & Jenny McAllister... Flying in Mono N378PJ AKA Blinky from KUES Wisconsin. > Jim & Heather Butcher... Flying N241BW from Kalamazoo, MI. > Bud Yearly ... Flying his Trigear up from Plant City FL. With a different prop...? > Peter & Christine Timm... Flying C-GIET flying rom Pemberton, BC. Nice trip! > > On Jul 18, 2011, at 8:36 PM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:45 AM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead The reason for my confusion is, the suggested location of the plywood would cut halfway through the fuel valve access hole on the starboard side of the tunnel (page 17-2 of the manual). Since the fuel valve has to be aft of this plywood bulkhead, I can't see how this setup would work without moving the plywood further forward, or making it conform to the wheel well curvature. On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 7:17 AM, David Joyce wrote: > > Andrew. The standard design works well and is easy to produce & make > reasonably 'crud-tight' - which is what it is there for. > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sarangan" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:41 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel bulkhead > > >> >> For the center console bulkhead, I was wondering if it would be better >> to build a curved bulkhead that follows the curvature of the wheel >> well rather than the flat plywood panel suggested in the manual. This >> means the new bulkhead will be further forward than the suggested 8" >> from the seat back face. I wasn't sure if this would introduce any >> problems in the future. Any thoughts? >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: English summer evening flight From: "graeme bird" Low, slow and quiet in an orange evening light over honey, patterned fields and combine plumes circle a windmill, follow contours, follow tracks clock marquees at stately homes and village cricket match, a 'private flight' - nowhere in particular and back. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348170#348170 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear From: "GBWFH2010" Aircaft: Europa Tri Gear Engine: Rotax 912 UL Propeller: Airmaster 322 Help! I would welcome any advice or suggestions regarding a problem which is afflicting my aircraft. It has developed a strange vibration/resonance which occurs after establishing the cruise. For example, after a normal take off and climb I set the prop to Cruise, reduce the MFP to 26 which gives approx. 100Kts at an indicated 5200 RPM. Everything appears normal at this stage. If I increase the cruise setting to 27, or greater, everything remains smooth, but reducing back to 26 re-introduces the vibration (which is noticeable unless the throttle is reduced almost to idle), which although it does not shake the aircraft to pieces, is most noticeable. The vibration remains through reduced throttle settings and can only be cleared temporarily by adjusting prop pitch to use a higher RPM and power settings. Initially I was convinced it was a propeller issue, but detailed checks have so far failed to highlight any problem. Airmaster are convinced it is not their propeller at fault but gave me several thing to check, all of which I have done. Europa suggested the prop carbon brushes and tracking should be cleaned which I have done. For a while I thought this might have cleared the fault, but it returned after 55 mins of flight. Interestingly At the same time as I had cleaned the tracking I had removed the whole exhaust system for inspection. I could not find anything wrong, no holes, or loose pipes so I refitted it and lock wired everything. I have inspected the carburettors, replaced the rubber mountings and balanced the system and everything appears to be normal. I have to admit I am at a loss to know what to check next. It may be related to something that was removed and refitted during the exhaust inspection, but I cannot find anything obvious and I do not understand why the problem is not apparent as soon as cruise power is applied. I would welcome any thoughts on this matter as it is driving me mad! -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348173#348173 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:59 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear From: "rparigoris" Hi Gordon A few thoughts: **Although you stated that you have balanced the carbs, did you check that they are being opened the same throughout the throttle range? Do you have a kinked or otherwise compromised set of cables? Did you try balancing at around the throttle position you are having a problem? **Are your carb float bowl vents in good condition and both plumbed to approx. ambient pressure? **If you switch from both to left then right mag, is there a change? **I am not sure, did you check the tracking of the blades? Did you measure that the blades are the same pitch, especially at the approx pitch where you are having vibrations? **Did you ever dynamic balance the blades? **Did you do the mod to undercarriage mounting frame? Is it or the motor mount cracked? Is the engine mounting bolts (Binx nuts) properly torqued? Are the motor mounts in OK condition? **Is the choke (enriching circuit) cables completely closing the arms? **Is there a leak in the balancing tube? **When was the last time you replaced the spark plugs? Is there a chance you may have wires that got mixed up? **Is the spinner tight with screws tight and no cracks and does it track true? Is the backing plate cracked? Did you by chance install different hardware where on the spinner, back plate or other is causing the prop to be out of balance? ** How many hours on your gearbox since it was checked? Do you have a slipper clutch? Do you use 100LL a lot? do you have a problem starting? Have a look through here, especially vibration: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81550 Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348176#348176 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:45 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear Gordon, Just for giggles, clean and re-lubricate the throttle cables and insure that there is no binding in the system, check the return springs, that they are plenty strong, then re-balance the carbs at the exact rpm the vibration is occurring. Also, be very sure that no exhaust gas is making it's way up to the carb bowl area. This should rule out a leaky exhaust system (causing vapor lock) and any carb balance issue. The very design of the throttle cable system causes the carbs to go slightly in and out of sync, as the throttle in manipulated, due to the cables changing length, slightly, in relation to each other. Nothing to lose but time and everything to gain... Jeff - Baby Blue 600+ hours On 7/31/2011 1:13 PM, GBWFH2010 wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "GBWFH2010" > > Aircaft: Europa Tri Gear > Engine: Rotax 912 UL > Propeller: Airmaster 322 > > > Help! I would welcome any advice or suggestions regarding a problem which is afflicting my aircraft. It has developed a strange vibration/resonance which occurs after establishing the cruise. For example, after a normal take off and climb I set the prop to Cruise, reduce the MFP to 26 which gives approx. 100Kts at an indicated 5200 RPM. Everything appears normal at this stage. If I increase the cruise setting to 27, or greater, everything remains smooth, but reducing back to 26 re-introduces the vibration (which is noticeable unless the throttle is reduced almost to idle), which although it does not shake the aircraft to pieces, is most noticeable. The vibration remains through reduced throttle settings and can only be cleared temporarily by adjusting prop pitch to use a higher RPM and power settings. > > Initially I was convinced it was a propeller issue, but detailed checks have so far failed to highlight any problem. Airmaster are convinced it is not their propeller at fault but gave me several thing to check, all of which I have done. Europa suggested the prop carbon brushes and tracking should be cleaned which I have done. For a while I thought this might have cleared the fault, but it returned after 55 mins of flight. Interestingly At the same time as I had cleaned the tracking I had removed the whole exhaust system for inspection. I could not find anything wrong, no holes, or loose pipes so I refitted it and lock wired everything. > > I have inspected the carburettors, replaced the rubber mountings and balanced the system and everything appears to be normal. > > I have to admit I am at a loss to know what to check next. It may be related to something that was removed and refitted during the exhaust inspection, but I cannot find anything obvious and I do not understand why the problem is not apparent as soon as cruise power is applied. > > I would welcome any thoughts on this matter as it is driving me mad! > > -------- > Gordon Grant > > G-BWFH > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348173#348173 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.