Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear (Frans Veldman)
2. 12:36 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure again (Frans Veldman)
3. 12:46 AM - SV: Fuel Pressure again (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
4. 02:44 AM - Fuel Injection (Martin Olliver)
5. 03:26 AM - Re: Fuel Injection (Frans Veldman)
6. 06:02 AM - Re: SV: Fuel Pressure again (Karl Heindl)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: Fuel Injection (Martin Olliver)
8. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear (Jeff B)
9. 11:53 AM - Re: Fuel Injection (Raimo Toivio)
10. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Injection (Frans Veldman)
11. 12:39 PM - Re: Fuel Injection (Frans Veldman)
12. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Injection (Nigel Graham)
13. 01:28 PM - Re: Fuel Injection (Robert Borger)
14. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Injection (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
15. 05:44 PM - Re: Fuel Injection (Pete)
16. 06:09 PM - Re: Fuel Injection (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear |
For what it is worth:
I have a small piece of tape to cover the hole of the rear wing pip
pins. Recently the aft end of this tape came loose and I had 1 inch of
tape end vibrating in the wind.
Unaware of this, I was strucked by a sudden buzzing vibration through
the ship. It behaved like described, with some speeds or prop settings
it was gone, to return at certain speeds, but a few times by temporarily
change a few parameters I could get it to stay away for a while.
I'm still surprised how difficult it was to determine what the source of
the vibration was, and how much vibration just 1 inch of tape can
create. The sound of it was much louder than the engine sound and it
appeared to come from everywhere.
I was worried enough to consider an immediate off field landing (it
could be flutter, or some critical part about to be teared off) but
decided to wait a little to see how it would develop. At least the
controls felt completely normal.
After the landing I discovered this small piece of tape, the end ragged
as a proof that it had been vibrating. After removing it the vibration
was gone and never returned.
Frans
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pressure again |
On 08/03/2011 03:09 AM, Karl Heindl wrote:
> I would also like to wire a fuel pressure sender to my EIS. But where
> would I find the T-adapter that the VDO sender is screwed into.
What engine do you have? 912 or 914? In the latter case, Bob Borger has
a good description about this double banjo bolt. But keep in mind that
for a 914 you need a differential pressure sensor: One end is connected
to the fuel line, the other end to the airbox. (If turbo boost goes up,
the fuel pressure is regulated to go up with it).
For a 912 you can probably get away with any T-piece and regular
pressure sensor.
Frans
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuel Pressure again |
Karl,
I mounted my VDO sender on the firewall, with a piece of fuel hose
connecting it to the branch-off from the main fuel line at the right side
carb. There is no pressure drop in this piece of fuel hose since there is
no flow.
Svein
Message 4
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Any one know of this company in Germany? Web.
www.silent-hektik.com/ul_912_1_htm
They make among other things a retro fit fuel injection system for the Rotax 912.
Looks a good system from the photos but I do not speak German and have thus
far not tried to contact them for a translation.
Has anyone fitted this system and if so how well did it perform?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348486#348486
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
On 08/03/2011 11:41 AM, Martin Olliver wrote:
> Any one know of this company in Germany? Web.
> www.silent-hektik.com/ul_912_1_htm
This is the corrected URL:
http://www.silent-hektik.com/UL_912_1.htm
I didn't know them, thanks!
However, there is also an Italian company making a FI-retrokit system.
The good news here is that they use the original carbs as throttle body
for the fuel injection. You just get two new intake manifolds with
injector ports molded in. The nice thing is that if the fuel injection
fails, you can just open the fuel valve to the carbs and continue your
flight. The have a demo movie where they switch back and forth between
carbs and fuel injection without the engine stalling.
I wouldn't just fit in fuel injection without fall back. There is no
reliability data on the electronics for the fuel injection, nor enough
data to make sure the engine doesn't run lean on *any* combinations of
density, altitude, rpm, prop load, throttle setting, etc. If the engine
runs too lean you risk burning holes in your pistons...
And it makes your engine utterly dependent on electricity (unless you go
for the Italian solution).
What worries me too is that the German site makes false claims, like
"Trouble free on ethanol". If there is any trouble with ethanol (and
there is), it is not so much carb related but due to the behaviour in
combination with moisture from the atmosphere. Ethanol binds water and
can keep lots of water suspended in the fuel, until the temperature
drops (typical at higher altitudes) where suddenly the water simply
falls out of suspension, creating a pool of water at the bottom of the
tank which wasn't there when you performed your pre-flight checks. Bad
to find out about this while flying over the Alps... And no fuel
injection, no matter how advanced, keeps the engine running on pure
water either.
BTW the main benefit of fuel injection is improved fuel economy. It
isn't going to do miracles to the power. It will help a bit but I'm
afraid not enough to make a real noticable difference. The improved fuel
economy though might be worth it, if you care about fuel economy
(improved economy, or improved range, or less fuel weight).
Frans
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel Pressure again |
Hi Svein=2CBob=2CPaul=2CFrans
Many thanks. I should have realized that I don't need an inline connection
=2C just a branch-off. That makes it pretty simple.
Karl
From: sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
Subject: SV: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure again
Karl=2C I mounted my VDO sender on the firewall=2C with a piece of fuel hos
e connecting it to the branch-off from the main fuel line at the right side
carb. There is no pressure drop in this piece of fuel hose since there is
no flow. Svein
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
Thank you Frans for the info. Having had time to look on the Internet I assume
the Italian engineers you refer are EPA Power?
I was thinking the system would be a lot simpler to maintain than Rotax stock carbs
and fittings. Power increase was not so important. I believe 95 ish HP could
be possible for the 912ul by fitting a different set of pistons if this was
required.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348507#348507
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Mysterious vibration on Europa Tri Gear |
Frans,
You need some stronger tape... :)
Jeff - Baby Blue
do not archive
On 8/3/2011 2:26 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman<frans@privatepilots.nl>
>
> For what it is worth:
> I have a small piece of tape to cover the hole of the rear wing pip
> pins. Recently the aft end of this tape came loose and I had 1 inch of
> tape end vibrating in the wind.
> Unaware of this, I was strucked by a sudden buzzing vibration through
> the ship. It behaved like described, with some speeds or prop settings
> it was gone, to return at certain speeds, but a few times by temporarily
> change a few parameters I could get it to stay away for a while.
> I'm still surprised how difficult it was to determine what the source of
> the vibration was, and how much vibration just 1 inch of tape can
> create. The sound of it was much louder than the engine sound and it
> appeared to come from everywhere.
> I was worried enough to consider an immediate off field landing (it
> could be flutter, or some critical part about to be teared off) but
> decided to wait a little to see how it would develop. At least the
> controls felt completely normal.
> After the landing I discovered this small piece of tape, the end ragged
> as a proof that it had been vibrating. After removing it the vibration
> was gone and never returned.
>
> Frans
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
Hi Martin
This is slightly off-topic but I cannot resist:
How about this vehicle engined by Rotax?
Fuel injected, water cooled, three cylinder, four
cyckles, super charged with intercooler, 255 HP @
8000 rpm, 1493 cm3, very sophisticated sound and
with extremely smooth endless power. Used to be
inside GRP /composite structure. Very fast.
It is my new toy but what is it?
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings:
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
-----Alkuper=E4inen viesti-----
From: Martin Olliver
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Injection
Olliver" <martflynut@aol.com>
Any one know of this company in Germany? Web.
www.silent-hektik.com/ul_912_1_htm
They make among other things a retro fit fuel
injection system for the Rotax 912. Looks a good
system from the photos but I do not speak German
and have thus far not tried to contact them for a
translation.
Has anyone fitted this system and if so how well
did it perform?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348486#348486
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
On 08/03/2011 06:13 PM, Martin Olliver wrote:
> Thank you Frans for the info. Having had time to look on the Internet
> I assume the Italian engineers you refer are EPA Power?
I was referring to these:
http://www.flygas.info/en/kit-fly-safe.html
Another thing you could do is to buy the modified intake manifolds only,
and use some generic programmable aftermarket kit for the fuel
injection. There exists also a high pressure fuel pump that will fit in
place of the stock Rotax fuel pump. It is the same one Bob Borger has.
> I was
> thinking the system would be a lot simpler to maintain than Rotax
> stock carbs and fittings.
Well EFI-systems can sometimes be a nightmare to maintain. Clogged
injectors, faulty sensors, lots of electrical wiring/connectors that can
get dirty, oxidated or just develop faults for no apparent reason, etc.
If maintenance is the issue, I believe that the stock configuration is
more reliable and easier to maintain.
Frans
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
On 08/03/2011 08:50 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Hi Martin
>
> This is slightly off-topic but I cannot resist:
>
> How about this vehicle engined by Rotax?
>
> Fuel injected, water cooled, three cylinder, four cyckles, super charged
> with intercooler, 255 HP @ 8000 rpm, 1493 cm3, very sophisticated sound
> and with extremely smooth endless power. Used to be inside GRP
> /composite structure. Very fast.
>
> It is my new toy but what is it?
Boat?
Frans
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
Well, your last topic covered the mundane subject of a flat tyre and
that quickly developed into a full blown sexual fantasy, I can only
hazzard a guess that that you have developed a new femail sex toy?
(Can't wait to see where this will go ;-)
Nigel
On Wed 03/08/11 19:50 , "Raimo Toivio" raimo.toivio@rwm.fi sent:
Hi Martin
This is slightly off-topic but I cannot resist:
How about this vehicle engined by Rotax?
Fuel injected, water cooled, three cylinder, four
cyckles, super charged with intercooler, 255 HP @
8000 rpm, 1493 cm3, very sophisticated sound and
with extremely smooth endless power. Used to be
inside GRP /composite structure. Very fast.
It is my new toy but what is it?
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings:
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
www.rwm.fi [2]
-----Alkuper=C3=A4inen viesti-----
From: Martin Olliver
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:41 PM
To:
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Injection
Olliver"
Any one know of this company in Germany? Web.
www.silent-hektik.com/ul_912_1_htm [5]
They make among other things a retro fit fuel
injection system for the Rotax 912. Looks a good
system from the photos but I do not speak German
and have thus far not tried to contact them for a
translation.
Has anyone fitted this system and if so how well
did it perform?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348486#348486 [6]
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [7]
Forums!
List Admin.
Links:
------
[2]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/parse.php?redirect=http://www.rwm.fi
[5]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/parse.php?redirect=http://www.silent-hektik
.com%2Ful_912_1_htm
[6]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matr
onics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D348486%23348486
[7]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/parse.php?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matroni
cs.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
Nigel,
I'm not going to touch that one with a 3 meter pole. But I will guess snowmobile
for Raimo's SuperDuper engine.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914
rlborger@mac.com
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Nigel Graham wrote:
> Well, your last topic covered the mundane subject of a flat tyre and that quickly
developed into a full blown sexual fantasy, I can only hazzard a guess that
that you have developed a new femail sex toy?
>
> (Can't wait to see where this will go ;-)
>
>
> Nigel
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
Nevertheless, a good fuel injection system would always be better than =0Ac
arburetors which on the 91x engines never give even distribution, just watc
h =0Athe EGTs.. Question is how do you achieve it? =0A=0Aregards Frans=0AGr
aham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Frans Veldman <
frans@privatepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0A=0AWell EFI-syste
ms can sometimes be a nightmare to maintain. Clogged=0Ainjectors, faulty se
nsors, lots of electrical wiring/connectors that can=0Aget dirty, oxidated
or just develop faults for no apparent reason, etc.=0AIf maintenance is the
issue, I believe that the stock configuration is=0Amore reliable and easie
r to maintain.=0A=0AFrans=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
Seadoo, a big and very fast seadoo :-)
Endless coolant supply, and I wonder what their longevity/reliability is?
Cheers,
Pete
a239
On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>
> On 08/03/2011 08:50 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>> Hi Martin
>>
>> This is slightly off-topic but I cannot resist:
>>
>> How about this vehicle engined by Rotax?
>>
>> Fuel injected, water cooled, three cylinder, four cyckles, super charged
>> with intercooler, 255 HP @ 8000 rpm, 1493 cm3, very sophisticated sound
>> and with extremely smooth endless power. Used to be inside GRP
>> /composite structure. Very fast.
>>
>> It is my new toy but what is it?
>
> Boat?
>
> Frans
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection |
I'll bite. Jet Ski?
Do not archive
On Wednesday, August 3, 2011, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Hi Martin
>
> This is slightly off-topic but I cannot resist:
>
> How about this vehicle engined by Rotax?
>
> Fuel injected, water cooled, three cylinder, four cyckles, super charged
with intercooler, 255 HP @ 8000 rpm, 1493 cm3, very sophisticated sound and
with extremely smooth endless power. Used to be inside GRP /composite
structure. Very fast.
>
> It is my new toy but what is it?
>
>
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