Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:46 AM - Re: FlowScan Problems (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
2. 04:58 AM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Karl Heindl)
3. 11:50 AM - Re: Exhaust Pipe Security (Bud Yerly)
4. 01:17 PM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Bud Yerly)
5. 03:13 PM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Karl Heindl)
6. 04:04 PM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Bud Yerly)
7. 06:11 PM - Fuel out the vent tubes (egp8111)
8. 06:37 PM - Re: Fuel out the vent tubes (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
9. 10:50 PM - SV: FlowScan Problems (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: FlowScan Problems |
On mine it is pin 25, my EIS is a 1998 model updated around 2003.=0AGraham
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Karl Heindl <kheind
l@msn.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, 7 August, 2011 1
:32:09=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems=0A=0A =0AOn my diagram
it says 4.8V on pin23.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0ADate: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 23:11:50 +0100=0AFrom: grahamsingleton@btinternet.
com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems=0ATo: europa-list@matroni
cs.com=0A=0A=0AJohn=0Athere is also a regulated 5v supply from the EIS I fo
rgot which pin it is but I =0Acan find out iof you need it=0AGraham=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Frans Veldman <frans@priv
atepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, 6 August, 2
011 16:47:44=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems=0A=0A--> Europa-
List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0A=0AOn 08/0
6/2011 11:59 AM, John Greenhalgh wrote:=0A> I have checked the ground and t
hats OK and then I checked the voltage=0A> of the power source at the conne
ctor to the sensor between the red and=0A> black wires and this was 10.6 vo
lts which is a surprise=0A=0AIf I recall correctly this sensor needs 5 Volt
s. If that is the case it=0Ais not surprising that it drags the supply down
to 10.6Volts. You might=0Ahave damaged the flowscan, but check to be sure
what the required=0Avoltage is, I hope for you tSearch & Download, 7-Day Br
owse, Chat, gt; =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A_; -Matt
Dralcontribution" ========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A target="_blank"
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.
========= =0A
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Subject: | FlowScan Problems |
Interesting. Mine is about the same vintage. For pin 25 it says :fuel flow
input connects to white wire of Floscanmodel 201B sensor.
From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
On mine it is pin 25=2C my EIS is a 1998 model updated around 2003.
Graham
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday=2C 7 August=2C 2011 1:32:09
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
On my diagram it says 4.8V on pin23.
From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
John
there is also a regulated 5v supply from the EIS I forgot which pin it is b
ut I can find out iof you need it
Graham
From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
Sent: Saturday=2C 6 August=2C 2011 16:47:44
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
On 08/06/2011 11:59 AM=2C John Greenhalgh wrote:
> I have checked the ground and thats OK and then I checked the voltage
> of the power source at the connector to the sensor between the red and
> black wires and this was 10.6 volts which is a surprise
If I recall correctly this sensor needs 5 Volts. If that is the case it
is not surprising that it drags the supply down to 10.6Volts. You might
have damaged the flowscan=2C but check to be sure what the required
voltage is=2C I hope for you tSearch & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C
gt=3B http://forums.matronics.com
_=3B -Matt Dralcontribution"
======
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust Pipe Security |
Jim,
Sorry to be absent from the list but these 60 hour weeks are making
great progress, however I have had to give up the time of getting into
these discussions:
I too have had enough of the clamping problems.
I now weld a small loop of welding rod onto the tail pipe just outboard
or the various clamps that are on each model engine/year group of
engine/tail pipe combination. The loop is safetied to the engine frame
or support for the muffler. This is just a derivation of a more
permanent type fix rather than Andy's sheet metal screw. I fear the
screw will back out so I weld on a loop.
I have tried an experiment as the clamping of my tail pipe got old as it
got loose, every other flight, so I had my tail pipe welded on as an
experiment three years ago. No problems after the total 300 hours. I
have a slightly larger exhaust pipe exit hole, and my expert welder made
sure there was not heat creep and potential cracking later on at the TIG
weld point. The trigear leg hole in the bottom of the cowl is a bit
larger and arced to clear the leg for easy installation of the cowl...
On the mono this is not necessary.
Regards to Heather,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: h&jeuropa<mailto:butcher43@att.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 9:16 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Exhaust Pipe Security
<butcher43@att.net<mailto:butcher43@att.net>>
On our 914 powered XS, the exhaust pipe that comes thru the engine
cowl gets loose. We once actually had it fall off, fortunately just
prior to takeoff! We've tried hi temp nuts, safety wiring the nut and
made a longer nut from steel rod which is safety wired, but still the
pipe gets loose after a few hours.
Yesterday, we noticed an old Tech Talk article from Dec 2002 where
Andy suggests drilling thru the stub of the muffler and the tailpipe and
inserting a self tapping screw. Then you are to arrange the screw to be
under the circular clamp. Has anyone done this and does it work?
Jim & Heather
N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348356#348356<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348356#348356>
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avigator?Europa-List>
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Subject: | Re: FlowScan Problems |
John,
It sounds like you need to look at your model as well as wire chasing
the EIS/flow scan hookups, as others have so expertly given you advise
for. There are different variations for the GRT EIS and differences in
the wiring.
EASY WAY: Send the unit to GRT and tell Sandy what you want. She'll
set up the unit and send the proper wiring diagrams to suit your
situation. The flow scan sensor itself is very trustworthy and I doubt
it is the problem. However if that is your only problem don't stop
flying, as FF is a nice to have.
HARDER WAY.
Model 2000 is wired differently than Model 4000. The older 4000 models
had to be modified for dual fuel flow. Model 2000 and early 4000 were
set up for single fuel flow. So power up and find out what version you
have. The 2000 is ideal for the 912 but not the 914.
Get to know what version you have and study the manuals. The single
fuel flow is OK for the 912/912S, and the 914 needs to have the dual
fuel flow EIS 4000 mod. Sandy at GRT can send you the wiring
schematic/manuals if that is all you need.
Attached is an .xlsx file which is my standard wiring hookup for GRT EIS
dual fuel flow on the Model 4000 for a 914 and it works.
Also attached is the model 2000 wiring hookup from a subie I did years
ago, note it is significantly different. I haven't done a 2000 in 10
years (I get them converted) so I am a bit rusty, but I know that for
under $400 the Model 2000 can be upgraded to a 4000 the way you want it
if you need dual fuel flow or desire additional Aux inputs.
It sounds as if you were not supplied with the manuals from the panel
builder, so have Sandy email them to you. Hook up is a piece of cake,
just follow the schematic.
When you call GRT, be sure to explain your particular setup and version,
and they will give the the necessary recommendations and offer
recommendations, If you send the EIS to them, they'll have the techs set
it up for you. Then it is just plug and play, (after you do the setup /
calibration procedures in the manual for proper reading of the fuel
flow, of course).
Regards,
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: John Greenhalgh<mailto:john.greenhalgh1@sky.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 5:59 AM
Subject: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
<john.greenhalgh1@sky.com<mailto:john.greenhalgh1@sky.com>>
I'm still in the process of inital flight testing and now finding the
Flowscan always reads 0.0 on my Grand Rapids EIS. All the connections
appear correct (previous project builder). Just wondering if anyone
could suggest a way forward.
I have checked the ground and thats OK and then I checked the voltage
of the power source at the connector to the sensor between the red and
black wires and this was 10.6 volts which is a surprise as the power
cable is connected to the regulated 12 volt supply direct from the
EIS.
This may or may not be the probem but I'm now in the dark with solving
this puzzle.
Is there any way to check the output from the Flowscan white sensor
wire?
I would welcome any suggestions. Regards John
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
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on>
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Subject: | FlowScan Problems |
Hi Bud=2C
If I read you correctly=2C the 2000 would give me fuel flow with just one F
loscan ? I have a 912s.
Karl
From: budyerly@msn.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
John=2C
It sounds like you need to look at your model as well as wire chasing
the EIS/flow scan hookups=2C as others have so expertly given you advise
for. There are different variations for the GRT EIS and differences in the
wiring.
EASY WAY: Send the unit to GRT and tell Sandy what you want.
She'll set up the unit and send the proper wiring diagrams to suit your
situation. The flow scan sensor itself is very trustworthy and I doubt it
is the problem. However if that is your only problem don't stop flying=2C
as
FF is a nice to have.
HARDER WAY.
Model 2000 is wired differently than Model 4000. The older 4000
models had to be modified for dual fuel flow. Model 2000 and early 4000
were set up for single fuel flow. So power up and find out what version
you have. The 2000 is ideal for the 912 but not the 914.
Get to know what version you have and study the manuals. The single
fuel flow is OK for the 912/912S=2C and the 914 needs to have the dual fuel
flow
EIS 4000 mod. Sandy at GRT can send you the wiring schematic/manuals if
that is all you need.
Attached is an .xlsx file which is my standard wiring hookup for GRT
EIS dual fuel flow on the Model 4000 for a 914 and it works.
Also attached is the model 2000 wiring hookup from a subie I did years ago
=2C
note it is significantly different. I haven't done a 2000 in 10
years (I get them converted) so I am a bit rusty=2C but I know that for und
er
$400 the Model 2000 can be upgraded to a 4000 the way you want it if you ne
ed
dual fuel flow or desire additional Aux inputs.
It sounds as if you were not supplied with the manuals from the panel
builder=2C so have Sandy email them to you. Hook up is a piece of cake=2C
just
follow the schematic.
When you call GRT=2C be sure to explain your particular setup and version
=2C
and they will give the the necessary recommendations and offer
recommendations=2C If you send the EIS to them=2C they'll have the techs se
t it
up for you. Then it is just plug and play=2C (after you do the setup
/ calibration procedures in the manual for proper reading of the fuel flow
=2C
of course).
Regards=2C
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: John Greenhalgh
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday=2C August 06=2C 2011 5:59
AM
Subject: Europa-List: FlowScan
Problems
m>
I'm
still in the process of inital flight testing and now finding the
Flowscan
always reads 0.0 on my Grand Rapids EIS. All the connections
appear
correct (previous project builder). Just wondering if anyone
could
suggest a way forward.
I have checked the ground and thats OK and then
I checked the voltage
of the power source at the connector to the sensor
between the red and
black wires and this was 10.6 volts which is a surprise
as the power
cable is connected to the regulated 12 volt supply direct from
the
EIS.
This may or may not be the probem but I'm now in the dark
with solving
this puzzle.
Is there any way to check the output from
the Flowscan white sensor wire?
I would welcome any
suggestions. Regards
nbsp=3B
Features
Chat=2C
http://www.matronnbsp=3B
via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p=3B
generous
bsp=3B
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: FlowScan Problems |
Yes,
The EIS 2000 will work with the supplied GRT fuel flow option. If you
add on the fuel flow after purchase, the unit should only need to be
programmed (really easy) and on the very old EIS 2000 units, it may need
to go back to GRT for upgrade.
My particular experience was installing a GRT 2000 (purchased as a two
stroke unit by accident, i.e. it was cheaper) bought in 1999. I then
hooked up the customers supplied Floscan senders. I couldn't get it to
work. I then called GRT and found, the model I had needed to be
upgraded for $375 (new wiring inside), so I sent it to them and had them
upgrade the 2000 to a 4000 for a couple bucks more, and on return, it
worked right out of the box after a one week turn around.
Again, Grand Rapids is the expert on the 2000 models years, programming
and setup. I just know it will work fine with one Floscan on a 912S
(where the small amount of fuel through the return line with orifice is
not counted) when ordered direct from GRT with the fuel flow option.
The 2000 is quite a deal price wise, and is fine for the basic 912S.
However, it does not have all the capabilities of the 4000.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Karl Heindl<mailto:kheindl@msn.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 6:10 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
Hi Bud,
If I read you correctly, the 2000 would give me fuel flow with just
one Floscan ? I have a 912s.
Karl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:13:54 -0400
John,
It sounds like you need to look at your model as well as wire chasing
the EIS/flow scan hookups, as others have so expertly given you advise
for. There are different variations for the GRT EIS and differences in
the wiring.
EASY WAY: Send the unit to GRT and tell Sandy what you want. She'll
set up the unit and send the proper wiring diagrams to suit your
situation. The flow scan sensor itself is very trustworthy and I doubt
it is the problem. However if that is your only problem don't stop
flying, as FF is a nice to have.
HARDER WAY.
Model 2000 is wired differently than Model 4000. The older 4000
models had to be modified for dual fuel flow. Model 2000 and early 4000
were set up for single fuel flow. So power up and find out what version
you have. The 2000 is ideal for the 912 but not the 914.
Get to know what version you have and study the manuals. The single
fuel flow is OK for the 912/912S, and the 914 needs to have the dual
fuel flow EIS 4000 mod. Sandy at GRT can send you the wiring
schematic/manuals if that is all you need.
Attached is an .xlsx file which is my standard wiring hookup for GRT
EIS dual fuel flow on the Model 4000 for a 914 and it works.
Also attached is the model 2000 wiring hookup from a subie I did years
ago, note it is significantly different. I haven't done a 2000 in 10
years (I get them converted) so I am a bit rusty, but I know that for
under $400 the Model 2000 can be upgraded to a 4000 the way you want it
if you need dual fuel flow or desire additional Aux inputs.
It sounds as if you were not supplied with the manuals from the panel
builder, so have Sandy email them to you. Hook up is a piece of cake,
just follow the schematic.
When you call GRT, be sure to explain your particular setup and
version, and they will give the the necessary recommendations and offer
recommendations, If you send the EIS to them, they'll have the techs set
it up for you. Then it is just plug and play, (after you do the setup /
calibration procedures in the manual for proper reading of the fuel
flow, of course).
Regards,
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: John Greenhalgh<mailto:john.greenhalgh1@sky.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 5:59 AM
Subject: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
<john.greenhalgh1@sky.com<mailto:john.greenhalgh1@sky.com>>
I'm still in the process of inital flight testing and now finding
the
Flowscan always reads 0.0 on my Grand Rapids EIS. All the
connections
appear correct (previous project builder). Just wondering if anyone
could suggest a way forward.
I have checked the ground and thats OK and then I checked the
voltage
of the power source at the connector to the sensor between the red
and
black wires and this was 10.6 volts which is a surprise as the power
cable is connected to the regulated 12 volt supply direct from the
EIS.
This may or may not be the probem but I'm now in the dark with
solving
this puzzle.
Is there any way to check the output from the Flowscan white sensor
wire?
I would welcome any suggestions. Regards nbsp; Features Chat,
http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
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avigator?Europa-List>
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on>
Message 7
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Subject: | Fuel out the vent tubes |
I'm returning my 912ul monowheel the flight status after not being flown in several
years. The problem I have is that when I turn on the electric fuel pump
,gas runs out of the vent tubes on the carbs. It's never done that before. Obviously
I have some stuck needle valves, just seems odd that both carbs are doing
the same thing. Anyone have in suggestion on where to start troble shooting
this thing.
thanks
EG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348876#348876
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Fuel out the vent tubes |
Hi EG
I have a BMW R100GS that has two type 64 Bing Carbs. It has happened to
me several times after sitting for a long period (even if I run out of
fuel before storage), carb snot forms and glues the floats to the bottom
position. Be sure to clean the enrichment circuit jets in the float bowl
along with the rest of the carb or you will not be able to get the motor
running unless you hand choke it of course.
Ron Parigoris
<egp8111@aol.com>
>
> I'm returning my 912ul monowheel the flight status after not
being flown
> in several years. The problem I have is that when I turn on the
electric
> fuel pump ,gas runs out of the vent tubes on the carbs. It's
never done
> that before. Obviously I have some stuck needle valves, just seems
odd
> that both carbs are doing the same thing. Anyone have in suggestion
on
> where to start troble shooting this thing.
>
> thanks
> EG
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348876#348876
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | FlowScan Problems |
Bud,
I am one of the very many who greatly appreciate the knowledge you share
with the Europa community and all the time you spend to help us out when a
problem occurs. Your last posting puzzled me, however, because I have a
different experience:
You write:
>Again, Grand Rapids is the expert on the 2000 models years, programming and
setup. I just know it will work fine with one Floscan >on a 912S (where the
small amount of fuel through the return line with orifice is not counted)
when ordered direct from GRT with >the fuel flow option.
I have a 912ULS, GRT EIS with fuel flow option and installed the Floscan
that was supplied by GRT in the fuel line (I do not have the model number at
hand, but for this discussion it is not important). After calibration of
the flow reading, I found to my big surprise that the return flow through
the orifice was in the 10 litres range (roughly 4 gallons) per hours. As
the return flow varies with the fuel pressure (and therefore to some extent
depends on the engine RPM), I did not wish to base my "consumption reading"
on an unknown return flow to be subtracted. I therefore first installed a
shut-off valve in the return line (mounted on the tunnel side, to be
operated during flight) for short-period reading of flow during my test
flights, to determine consumption and most economical speed. Later, I have
replaced it with Electronics International's fuel totalizer, which has a
flow pickup both in the feed and the return line - superb instrument.
I was very surprised that the return flow is this high (at least in my
installation, where I think I have the restrictor with the correct orifice
installed!), but concluded that the reason is the very low viscosity in
gasoline compared to for example water.
It of course makes sense to have a significant return flow, as the objective
is to flush through the fuel system forward of the firewall with "cold"
fuel, especially on the ground when idling or taxiing, when the consumption
flow is very low, to reduce the risk of vapor lock.
Kind regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
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