Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/14/11


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:35 AM - Maximum All Up Weights (Steven Pitt)
     2. 09:12 AM - Re: Anyone willing to give me a fly in a mono - bucks//beds area (Carl Pattinson)
     3. 11:54 AM - Re: Maximum All Up Weights (rparigoris)
     4. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Maximum All Up Weights (Steven Pitt)
     5. 04:05 PM -  Re: Report from EANF 2011 in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D6land? (Troy Maynor)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:35:10 AM PST US
    From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Maximum All Up Weights
    Dear Europa Owners The Europa Club has been asked to look at the possibility of obtaining an increase in the Max All Up Weight (Max take off Weight) for the fleet of Europas according to the regulations applied by the British Light Aircraft Association. The current MAUWs are 1300lbs (591kgs) for the classic without the tie bar modification and 1370 lbs (622kgs) with the XS and other modified Classic kits. It is already known that different countries have applied different MAUWs to their local kits (eg Canada, USA, Norway, New Zealand) so we have practical experience and useage at these higher weights. In order to progress this initiative the Club needs to build a database of which kits have been approved at the higher weights (and what has been approved), what the empty weight is and how many flight hours have been flown. It would also be useful to have an indication of any changes to the Centre of Gravity as applied to the aircraft and what typical loads are carried. This may include has the baggage bay allowance been increased from the 80 lbs included in the standard XS kit (this may particularly apply to those of you using the monowheel additional fuel tank in the wheelwell reserved for the trigear) or does the increased MAUW allow for heavier pilot/co-pilot or increased empty weight? Below is the information that I would appreciate receiving on behalf of the club. To make my life slightly simpler can I ask that those owners in the Southern Hemisphere please send the details to our Antipodean Representative Tim Ward (ward.t@xtra.co.nz) , whilst those in Holland and Northern European Countries please send to Tim Weert (tim.weert@xs4all.nl) and for those in Belgium/France and Southern European Countries please send to Remi Guerner (air.guerner@orange.fr). Any American and Canadian owners can send their details direct to me please as well as any areas of the world not specifically mentioned. loading Aircraft Registration Kit number Hours flown Empty weight Max All up Weight Centre of Gravity limits baggage typical pilot/pax fuel any other comments (please indicate whether kgs or lbs) Type (tri, mono, Motorglider) I look forward to hearing from you and thank you in anticipation of your help with this venture. Regards Steve Pitt Chairman Europa Club G-SMDH Trigear XS


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:12:05 AM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Anyone willing to give me a fly in a mono - bucks//beds
    area Hi, I am at Bicester airfield where there are 2 Europa mono-wheels. You are welcome to come for a spin in mine - better still I am looking for a passenger next weekend to fly in to Laddingford. You could fill your boots with Europas. Carl Pattinson G-LABS 07768 473222 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 13 August 2011 19:43 Subject: Europa-List: Anyone willing to give me a fly in a mono - bucks//beds area I am about finished and ready for final inspections and paperwork sign off. I have never flown in a Europa and dont worry, I dont intend to test fly mine, but is there anyone near me in Milton Keynes who would be prepared to take me up in a mono for an hour or so? I could even fly and meet someone somewhere (in my C42). I have a number of options on a test pilot but my favourite, has around 300 hours mono but would also like to fly one for a refresher - he has thousands of hours, I have around 500 on c150, PA28. TB9, Rallye etc -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349322#349322


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:54:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Maximum All Up Weights
    From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Hi Steve As far as flying with a higher than 1370 AUW and adjustments to CG here is some info I uploaded to the gallery from Nev and Andy: Andy: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=89065 Nev: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=89068 Here is my album on load testing: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=86987 I spoke to a few pilots with Monowheels and 914/Airmaster flying well over 1500 Lbs, even at aft CG stated in the manual for 1370 and they said the plane flies OK, but doggier acceleration and climb but still acceptable. Andy and Nev said the undercarriage of the monowheel is the weak link (and of course you are eating into your reserve airframe strength). If your plan is to take off @ 1550 and burn fuel before landing, if you have a power failure after take off, good luck. One thing keep in mind as far as maneuvering speed goes, a higher weight increases the maneuvering speed (as far as the wings go anyway). Andy spoke of moving the CG ~ 1" forward of aft and ~ 1" aft of forward (I am going by memory, please read document closely to verify) if flying at 1450 AUW. I spoke to someone who spoke to the test pilot when test flying was being conducted of the Europa and flying with a more aft CG at 1370 AUW was very recoverable from a multi turn spin, but it spun up like a maple leaf and it was deemed a bad idea to allow a pilot with average skills to ever experience a spin of that nature and have the ability and skills for an effortlessly recovery. If you ever have an official flight test routine performed on a Europa, I for one would be very interested in seeing how a XS recovers from a multi turn spin recovery at 1450 with an aft CG as stated for 1370 lbs. The same goes for the glider wing. From what I understand Europa has a video of glider wing test flying and spin recovery. Several times my request for a copy was never complied with. Perhaps you may get better results and post on the Europa club website? I spoke with someone that said they talked with a pilot flying at either 1450 or higher AUW on a trigear XS with quite a bit aft of allowable 1370 CG and it was quickly discovered when landing that quite a bit of forward pressure was needed on the stick at the flare, hence he would never fly in such a configuration again. I will just mention that for Glider wings, without modification to spar (but only after inspection as per SB) you can only fly slow and light. To fly faster and heavier, a spar mod and front lift pin socket mod must be performed. Info can be found on Europa's website, or I posted at the bottom of my Glider Information Gallery, SB 17, SB 18 and MOD 78. The lower ones are the latest and greatest as per today: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81907 My input finished. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349405#349405


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:52:34 PM PST US
    From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Maximum All Up Weights
    Ron, Thanks for the immediate response and detail. I will store this with the rest of the information I am already compiling. Regards Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "rparigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Maximum All Up Weights > <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > > Hi Steve > > As far as flying with a higher than 1370 AUW and adjustments to CG here is > some info I uploaded to the gallery from Nev and Andy: > > Andy: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=89065 > > Nev: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=89068 > > Here is my album on load testing: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=86987 > > I spoke to a few pilots with Monowheels and 914/Airmaster flying well over > 1500 Lbs, even at aft CG stated in the manual for 1370 and they said the > plane flies OK, but doggier acceleration and climb but still acceptable. > Andy and Nev said the undercarriage of the monowheel is the weak link (and > of course you are eating into your reserve airframe strength). If your > plan is to take off @ 1550 and burn fuel before landing, if you have a > power failure after take off, good luck. One thing keep in mind as far as > maneuvering speed goes, a higher weight increases the maneuvering speed > (as far as the wings go anyway). > Andy spoke of moving the CG ~ 1" forward of aft and ~ 1" aft of forward (I > am going by memory, please read document closely to verify) if flying at > 1450 AUW. > I spoke to someone who spoke to the test pilot when test flying was being > conducted of the Europa and flying with a more aft CG at 1370 AUW was very > recoverable from a multi turn spin, but it spun up like a maple leaf and > it was deemed a bad idea to allow a pilot with average skills to ever > experience a spin of that nature and have the ability and skills for an > effortlessly recovery. > If you ever have an official flight test routine performed on a Europa, I > for one would be very interested in seeing how a XS recovers from a multi > turn spin recovery at 1450 with an aft CG as stated for 1370 lbs. > The same goes for the glider wing. From what I understand Europa has a > video of glider wing test flying and spin recovery. Several times my > request for a copy was never complied with. Perhaps you may get better > results and post on the Europa club website? > I spoke with someone that said they talked with a pilot flying at either > 1450 or higher AUW on a trigear XS with quite a bit aft of allowable 1370 > CG and it was quickly discovered when landing that quite a bit of forward > pressure was needed on the stick at the flare, hence he would never fly in > such a configuration again. > I will just mention that for Glider wings, without modification to spar > (but only after inspection as per SB) you can only fly slow and light. To > fly faster and heavier, a spar mod and front lift pin socket mod must be > performed. Info can be found on Europa's website, or I posted at the > bottom of my Glider Information Gallery, SB 17, SB 18 and MOD 78. The > lower ones are the latest and greatest as per today: > http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=81907 > My input finished. > Ron Parigoris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349405#349405 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:05:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Report from EANF 2011 in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D6land?
    From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
    Raimo, You live on a very beautiful part of the planet and know how to enjoy it with your lovely family. It all makes building a plane like the Europa really worthwhile. Happy Flights... Kindest Regards, Troy Maynor do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349434#349434




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