Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:40 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (zwakie)
2. 02:19 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (Raimo Toivio)
3. 02:24 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (Frans Veldman)
4. 03:57 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (G-IANI)
5. 04:14 AM - Re: Rotax 914 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mothballed=85=85=85what?= service??? (tennant)
6. 04:43 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (zwakie)
7. 08:17 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (mau11)
8. 09:47 AM - Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (roddyeuropa@aol.com)
9. 02:12 PM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Bud Yerly)
10. 07:23 PM - Trial fitting cockpit module (Andrew Sarangan)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron |
>From thorouhgly reading the manuals I found another possible cause: the server
zero position sitting outside the zone of travel.
This however raises another question: from a safety point of view I would not expect
the design to allow this zero point to change or shift once it has been
set. Given the gear-type of design I would not find this likely either.
Therfore another question to the list: Did anybody ever experience the zero point
to shift or suddenly change?
--------
Marcel
(Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349605#349605
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Subject: | Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron |
Hi Marcel
I have a bit similar failure. I have a combination
Trio EZ Pilot & Garmin 296. When engaging the
servo to follow the route, it goes to route but 30
degrees to the left.
I noticed if I first switch off the EZ, then
confirm the route again and finally switch on the
EZ, it goes perfectly and follows the specific
route to the final destination.
I contacted Jerry and he told there is a known
software bug (I purchased my EZ 2009).
He kindly asked me to send it to them for a new
software installation but so far I have refused
because I do not want to open my panel for that
minor reason - I can live (fly) with it.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours: 242,0
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: zwakie
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:56 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Navaid servo, full left
aileron
<mz@cariama.nl>
Hi list,
Today I have replaced my Navaid controlhead with a
new Trio EZ Pilot controlhead. All works fine, my
Skyforce IIIC is providing all informatn
perfectly.
I do however have one issue: when engaging the
servo, the servo immediately gives me full left
aileron. This exact same thing happened with the
Navaid controlhead, so as far as I can tell one of
the following coild be wrong:
A) my Navaid servo is not properly functioning;
Trio has offered to look at the servo after I ship
itto them (excellent service from Jerry!)
B) the PWM wire running from the controlhead to
the servo has broke
My guess is that scenario B) is what is wrong,
because this full aileron issue started after
someone has done some work behind the panel.
My question to the list: would a broken PWN wire
indeed result in a full aileron deflection?
Any input is highly appreciated!
Marcel
--------
Marcel
(Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349525#349525
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Subject: | Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron |
On 08/15/2011 08:56 PM, zwakie wrote:
> I do however have one issue: when engaging the servo, the servo
> immediately gives me full left aileron. This exact same thing
> happened with the Navaid controlhead
You forgot to mention whether this occured during flight or at the ground.
At the ground this is easy to occur, the autopilot tries to level the
plane (to what it *thinks* is level) or correct the assumed "heading",
the airplane doesn't responsd, so the autopilot corrects a bit more,
still no response, so it commands an even more aggressive aileron
deflection, etc. This is what you want it to do when turbulence or
whatever requires more aileron deflection to correct the situation. But
on the ground it just looks as if the autopilot commands full aileron
just out of the blue, but this is only because the aircraft behaves very
unresponsive, to say the least. I have seen this behaviour on the ground
too, but in flight it works perfectly.
If this is the case, you should be able to offset the center position in
the autopilot menu (without a GPS connected of course!)
If this happens in flight (or on the ground it looks like it is really
stuck without GPS input and regardless of center settings) I would
suspect the servo is broken.
Without valid PWM input the servo should not engage at all.
I assume that you have carefully inspected the physical rigging and made
sure the servo and autopilot absolutely agree about what is left and
what is right. You might want to configure the autopilot to "reverse" to
check what happens. Full aileron deflection is what you get if the
autopilot tries to correct something but the servo corrects into the
wrong direction. If you missed this step, this fully explains the odd
behaviour of your setup.
> A) my Navaid servo is not properly functioning; Trio has offered to
> look at the servo after I ship itto them (excellent service from
> Jerry!) B) the PWM wire running from the controlhead to the servo has
> broke
If you take out the servo anyway, I would connect it to the autopilot
module on the bench and see what happens. You can even tilt the
autopilot and see how the servo responses. No need to send it to Jerry.
> My question to the list: would a broken PWN wire indeed result in a
> full aileron deflection?
I'm not sure about the navaid servo, but the trio-servo disengages
immediately if it detects something wrong. If the navaid simply gives
full aileron deflection when one wire breaks, I wouldn't even want to
fly with it. I must assume that it disengages too if the PWM signal is
entirely missing.
Frans
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Subject: | Navaid servo, full left aileron |
My experience, while developing and testing the Autopilot mods (75 & 76) for
Europa, was mostly with the TruTrak digital servos. They and all the others
I have seen, behave as Franz describes. This is fully covered in the
manuals.
So check out the mode the system is operating in. It may be doing exactly
what it is supposed to do.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mothballed=85=85=85what?= service??? |
Hi Tony,
If you really want it to last forever take it to a local packing company where
they can vacuum pack it with silica gel in a weldable plastic foil. It only takes
a few minutes and they will only charge you a few $.
No air - no moisture!
Regards
Barry
--------
Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349612#349612
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Subject: | Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron |
Thank you all for the good suggestions.
The behavior occurs on ground, both with and without GPS connected and in TRK and
CRS mode. I observe the exact same behavior that the old setup (with the navaid
head) showed after I had an official shop install my Mode-S transponder.
Before that work was done, I never saw the servo giving full aileron deflection,
this is why my mind was locked into suspecting the wiring. I did not and even
consider the possibility that it might be OK after completing the setups as
Frans suggests.
Thank you Frans for your clear and elaborate explanations. I will drive to the
airport tomorrow morning and follow up your suggestions (alongside the part of
the manual describing setup of course :) ), and see what that brings...
--------
Marcel
(Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349615#349615
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Subject: | Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron |
X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 26 [cn]
Hello Marcel,
I have the same thing when I install trio EZ with my navaid servo.
There is two positions of the servo course mine immediately after installation
is on "NORMAL" position, I change and use REVERSE position after all is ok.
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Subject: | Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg |
I use a polarn pump - see http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Pit_Padd
ock_Accessories/Fuel_Containers_Funnels/Demon_Tweeks_Polarn_Pump/1246/0/159
44
you attach it a jerry can and presurise the jerry can by pumping air into i
t. Works well.
Roddy Kesterton G-IKRK
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Gamble <mp.gamble@talktalk.net>
Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:54
Subject: Europa-List: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Anyone have experience of the attached gadget for pumping fuel? I=99m
geting tired of trying to lift a 20 ltr can to refuel my mono.
Mike
G-CFMP
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: FlowScan Problems |
Svein,
I am just a dumb builder who has learned the hard way and only knows
what has worked in my shop. And like you guys, with no time to work on
my own projects.
You can never beat an Electronics International flow meter system. I
have one, and it is superb. No adjustments right out of the box.
Regarding the flow of the return:
I did a bench check of the FS02 return line years ago and found that is
flows at 4 oz per minute so about two gallons per hour at a pressure of
about 2 PSI with a full tank (as the head pressure resists the return).
Non scientific measuring cups and hoses used. In fact it was
practically Rube Goldberg at its best.
There is no way to get a single FF sender to be accurate over all power
ranges but you can get pretty darned close.
My experience with the setup of a single FF sender on a 912 engine with
only a single fuel flow sensor and a restricted return is as follows:
GRT has the fuel flow instruction in their manual starting in section
7.5 for the EIS.
What I do in the shop is the following:
I disconnect the fuel line from the engine, and use a hose extension
draining into a gallon can with a valve to also check the fuel pressure.
Like you, I set it up initially only checking the flow out of the main
line and verify the accuracy and adjust as necessary according to the
manual. Usually it is pretty good...
I then hook the fuel lines back up.
I run the pump with engine off and the return line disconnected and
measure the flow rate. With no other restrictions other than fuel in
the tank and the FS02, it is just about three-four gallons per hour.
One method I tried was to run the engine and measure the return, the tee
pressure should be about 3-4 PSI and the return past the FSO2 installed
in a tightly fitting1/4 inch fuel line, drops the return flow by about
half. But running engines on the ground and dripping fuel around is
stupid, so I don't do that any more.
The GRT manual has you adjust from flight experience the FLOCAL up until
your flow is more accurate, if I recall it is a value between 100-150.
What the GRT folks told me to do was to note your fuel burn in flight
via fill up and stopwatch to get your approximate fuel flow as it is
much safer without fuel lines and props turning on the ground...
Simply increase the FLOCAL and fly again to check it out. Adjusting as
you go, and adjusting, and adjusting, and adjusting.
Being a lazy old guy, I fly during test at cruise power and set the
FLOCAL until I get about 5.5 GPH at about 3000 MSL and 5000 RPM at 20-25
inches MP.
Then adjust while enjoying cross country flights.
For those with two flow meters, I have found the GRT 4000 with FF return
to work as advertised. As accurate as the EI system I have.
I, like you Svein, am spoiled by my Electronics International Flowscan,
it is a great piece of equipment, and I am glad to see other
manufacturers now making similar equipment that is less tedious than the
GRT above.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen<mailto:sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 1:46 AM
Subject: SV: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems
Bud,
I am one of the very many who greatly appreciate the knowledge you
share with the Europa community and all the time you spend to help us
out when a problem occurs. Your last posting puzzled me, however,
because I have a different experience:
You write:
>Again, Grand Rapids is the expert on the 2000 models years,
programming and setup. I just know it will work fine with one Floscan
>on a 912S (where the small amount of fuel through the return line with
orifice is not counted) when ordered direct from GRT with >the fuel flow
option.
I have a 912ULS, GRT EIS with fuel flow option and installed the
Floscan that was supplied by GRT in the fuel line (I do not have the
model number at hand, but for this discussion it is not important).
After calibration of the flow reading, I found to my big surprise that
the return flow through the orifice was in the 10 litres range (roughly
4 gallons) per hours. As the return flow varies with the fuel pressure
(and therefore to some extent depends on the engine RPM), I did not wish
to base my "consumption reading" on an unknown return flow to be
subtracted. I therefore first installed a shut-off valve in the return
line (mounted on the tunnel side, to be operated during flight) for
short-period reading of flow during my test flights, to determine
consumption and most economical speed. Later, I have replaced it with
Electronics International's fuel totalizer, which has a flow pickup both
in the feed and the return line - superb instrument. I was very
surprised that the return flow is this high (at least in my
installation, where I think I have the restrictor with the correct
orifice installed!), but concluded that the reason is the very low
viscosity in gasoline compared to for example water. It of course makes
sense to have a significant return flow, as the objective is to flush
through the fuel system forward of the firewall with "cold" fuel,
especially on the ground when idling or taxiing, when the consumption
flow is very low, to reduce the risk of vapor lock. Kind
regards,SveinLN-SKJ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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Subject: | Trial fitting cockpit module |
Is there a reason why chapter 11 (title: preparing the mouldings)
calls for drilling cleco'ing the CM to the fuselage? Is this step not
done best just before the bond?
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