Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/16/11


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:40 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (zwakie)
     2. 02:19 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (Raimo Toivio)
     3. 02:24 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (Frans Veldman)
     4. 03:57 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (G-IANI)
     5. 04:14 AM - Re: Rotax 914 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mothballed=85=85=85what?= service??? (tennant)
     6. 04:43 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (zwakie)
     7. 08:17 AM - Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron (mau11)
     8. 09:47 AM - Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (roddyeuropa@aol.com)
     9. 02:12 PM - Re: FlowScan Problems (Bud Yerly)
    10. 07:23 PM - Trial fitting cockpit module (Andrew Sarangan)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:40:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
    >From thorouhgly reading the manuals I found another possible cause: the server zero position sitting outside the zone of travel. This however raises another question: from a safety point of view I would not expect the design to allow this zero point to change or shift once it has been set. Given the gear-type of design I would not find this likely either. Therfore another question to the list: Did anybody ever experience the zero point to shift or suddenly change? -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349605#349605


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:19:54 AM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    Hi Marcel I have a bit similar failure. I have a combination Trio EZ Pilot & Garmin 296. When engaging the servo to follow the route, it goes to route but 30 degrees to the left. I noticed if I first switch off the EZ, then confirm the route again and finally switch on the EZ, it goes perfectly and follows the specific route to the final destination. I contacted Jerry and he told there is a known software bug (I purchased my EZ 2009). He kindly asked me to send it to them for a new software installation but so far I have refused because I do not want to open my panel for that minor reason - I can live (fly) with it. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours: 242,0 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: zwakie Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Navaid servo, full left aileron <mz@cariama.nl> Hi list, Today I have replaced my Navaid controlhead with a new Trio EZ Pilot controlhead. All works fine, my Skyforce IIIC is providing all informatn perfectly. I do however have one issue: when engaging the servo, the servo immediately gives me full left aileron. This exact same thing happened with the Navaid controlhead, so as far as I can tell one of the following coild be wrong: A) my Navaid servo is not properly functioning; Trio has offered to look at the servo after I ship itto them (excellent service from Jerry!) B) the PWM wire running from the controlhead to the servo has broke My guess is that scenario B) is what is wrong, because this full aileron issue started after someone has done some work behind the panel. My question to the list: would a broken PWN wire indeed result in a full aileron deflection? Any input is highly appreciated! Marcel -------- Marcel (Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349525#349525 browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin.


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:24:13 AM PST US
    From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
    Subject: Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    On 08/15/2011 08:56 PM, zwakie wrote: > I do however have one issue: when engaging the servo, the servo > immediately gives me full left aileron. This exact same thing > happened with the Navaid controlhead You forgot to mention whether this occured during flight or at the ground. At the ground this is easy to occur, the autopilot tries to level the plane (to what it *thinks* is level) or correct the assumed "heading", the airplane doesn't responsd, so the autopilot corrects a bit more, still no response, so it commands an even more aggressive aileron deflection, etc. This is what you want it to do when turbulence or whatever requires more aileron deflection to correct the situation. But on the ground it just looks as if the autopilot commands full aileron just out of the blue, but this is only because the aircraft behaves very unresponsive, to say the least. I have seen this behaviour on the ground too, but in flight it works perfectly. If this is the case, you should be able to offset the center position in the autopilot menu (without a GPS connected of course!) If this happens in flight (or on the ground it looks like it is really stuck without GPS input and regardless of center settings) I would suspect the servo is broken. Without valid PWM input the servo should not engage at all. I assume that you have carefully inspected the physical rigging and made sure the servo and autopilot absolutely agree about what is left and what is right. You might want to configure the autopilot to "reverse" to check what happens. Full aileron deflection is what you get if the autopilot tries to correct something but the servo corrects into the wrong direction. If you missed this step, this fully explains the odd behaviour of your setup. > A) my Navaid servo is not properly functioning; Trio has offered to > look at the servo after I ship itto them (excellent service from > Jerry!) B) the PWM wire running from the controlhead to the servo has > broke If you take out the servo anyway, I would connect it to the autopilot module on the bench and see what happens. You can even tilt the autopilot and see how the servo responses. No need to send it to Jerry. > My question to the list: would a broken PWN wire indeed result in a > full aileron deflection? I'm not sure about the navaid servo, but the trio-servo disengages immediately if it detects something wrong. If the navaid simply gives full aileron deflection when one wire breaks, I wouldn't even want to fly with it. I must assume that it disengages too if the PWM signal is entirely missing. Frans


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:57:11 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    My experience, while developing and testing the Autopilot mods (75 & 76) for Europa, was mostly with the TruTrak digital servos. They and all the others I have seen, behave as Franz describes. This is fully covered in the manuals. So check out the mode the system is operating in. It may be doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:14:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 914 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mothballed=85=85=85what?= service???
    From: "tennant" <barrington.tennant@gmail.com>
    Hi Tony, If you really want it to last forever take it to a local packing company where they can vacuum pack it with silica gel in a weldable plastic foil. It only takes a few minutes and they will only charge you a few $. No air - no moisture! Regards Barry -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349612#349612


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:43:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
    Thank you all for the good suggestions. The behavior occurs on ground, both with and without GPS connected and in TRK and CRS mode. I observe the exact same behavior that the old setup (with the navaid head) showed after I had an official shop install my Mode-S transponder. Before that work was done, I never saw the servo giving full aileron deflection, this is why my mind was locked into suspecting the wiring. I did not and even consider the possibility that it might be OK after completing the setups as Frans suggests. Thank you Frans for your clear and elaborate explanations. I will drive to the airport tomorrow morning and follow up your suggestions (alongside the part of the manual describing setup of course :) ), and see what that brings... -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349615#349615


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:17:21 AM PST US
    From: "mau11" <mau11@free.fr>
    Subject: Re: Navaid servo, full left aileron
    X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 26 [cn] Hello Marcel, I have the same thing when I install trio EZ with my navaid servo. There is two positions of the servo course mine immediately after installation is on "NORMAL" position, I change and use REVERSE position after all is ok.


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:47:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
    From: roddyeuropa@aol.com
    I use a polarn pump - see http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Pit_Padd ock_Accessories/Fuel_Containers_Funnels/Demon_Tweeks_Polarn_Pump/1246/0/159 44 you attach it a jerry can and presurise the jerry can by pumping air into i t. Works well. Roddy Kesterton G-IKRK -----Original Message----- From: Mike Gamble <mp.gamble@talktalk.net> Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:54 Subject: Europa-List: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg Anyone have experience of the attached gadget for pumping fuel? I=99m geting tired of trying to lift a 20 ltr can to refuel my mono. Mike G-CFMP


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:12:40 PM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: FlowScan Problems
    Svein, I am just a dumb builder who has learned the hard way and only knows what has worked in my shop. And like you guys, with no time to work on my own projects. You can never beat an Electronics International flow meter system. I have one, and it is superb. No adjustments right out of the box. Regarding the flow of the return: I did a bench check of the FS02 return line years ago and found that is flows at 4 oz per minute so about two gallons per hour at a pressure of about 2 PSI with a full tank (as the head pressure resists the return). Non scientific measuring cups and hoses used. In fact it was practically Rube Goldberg at its best. There is no way to get a single FF sender to be accurate over all power ranges but you can get pretty darned close. My experience with the setup of a single FF sender on a 912 engine with only a single fuel flow sensor and a restricted return is as follows: GRT has the fuel flow instruction in their manual starting in section 7.5 for the EIS. What I do in the shop is the following: I disconnect the fuel line from the engine, and use a hose extension draining into a gallon can with a valve to also check the fuel pressure. Like you, I set it up initially only checking the flow out of the main line and verify the accuracy and adjust as necessary according to the manual. Usually it is pretty good... I then hook the fuel lines back up. I run the pump with engine off and the return line disconnected and measure the flow rate. With no other restrictions other than fuel in the tank and the FS02, it is just about three-four gallons per hour. One method I tried was to run the engine and measure the return, the tee pressure should be about 3-4 PSI and the return past the FSO2 installed in a tightly fitting1/4 inch fuel line, drops the return flow by about half. But running engines on the ground and dripping fuel around is stupid, so I don't do that any more. The GRT manual has you adjust from flight experience the FLOCAL up until your flow is more accurate, if I recall it is a value between 100-150. What the GRT folks told me to do was to note your fuel burn in flight via fill up and stopwatch to get your approximate fuel flow as it is much safer without fuel lines and props turning on the ground... Simply increase the FLOCAL and fly again to check it out. Adjusting as you go, and adjusting, and adjusting, and adjusting. Being a lazy old guy, I fly during test at cruise power and set the FLOCAL until I get about 5.5 GPH at about 3000 MSL and 5000 RPM at 20-25 inches MP. Then adjust while enjoying cross country flights. For those with two flow meters, I have found the GRT 4000 with FF return to work as advertised. As accurate as the EI system I have. I, like you Svein, am spoiled by my Electronics International Flowscan, it is a great piece of equipment, and I am glad to see other manufacturers now making similar equipment that is less tedious than the GRT above. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen<mailto:sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 1:46 AM Subject: SV: Europa-List: FlowScan Problems Bud, I am one of the very many who greatly appreciate the knowledge you share with the Europa community and all the time you spend to help us out when a problem occurs. Your last posting puzzled me, however, because I have a different experience: You write: >Again, Grand Rapids is the expert on the 2000 models years, programming and setup. I just know it will work fine with one Floscan >on a 912S (where the small amount of fuel through the return line with orifice is not counted) when ordered direct from GRT with >the fuel flow option. I have a 912ULS, GRT EIS with fuel flow option and installed the Floscan that was supplied by GRT in the fuel line (I do not have the model number at hand, but for this discussion it is not important). After calibration of the flow reading, I found to my big surprise that the return flow through the orifice was in the 10 litres range (roughly 4 gallons) per hours. As the return flow varies with the fuel pressure (and therefore to some extent depends on the engine RPM), I did not wish to base my "consumption reading" on an unknown return flow to be subtracted. I therefore first installed a shut-off valve in the return line (mounted on the tunnel side, to be operated during flight) for short-period reading of flow during my test flights, to determine consumption and most economical speed. Later, I have replaced it with Electronics International's fuel totalizer, which has a flow pickup both in the feed and the return line - superb instrument. I was very surprised that the return flow is this high (at least in my installation, where I think I have the restrictor with the correct orifice installed!), but concluded that the reason is the very low viscosity in gasoline compared to for example water. It of course makes sense to have a significant return flow, as the objective is to flush through the fuel system forward of the firewall with "cold" fuel, especially on the ground when idling or taxiing, when the consumption flow is very low, to reduce the risk of vapor lock. Kind regards,SveinLN-SKJ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:23:51 PM PST US
    From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
    Subject: Trial fitting cockpit module
    Is there a reason why chapter 11 (title: preparing the mouldings) calls for drilling cleco'ing the CM to the fuselage? Is this step not done best just before the bond?




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