---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/19/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg (Martin Olliver) 2. 08:02 AM - Re: Trial fitting cockpit module (Andrew Sarangan) 3. 09:18 AM - Re: Trial fitting cockpit module (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg From: "Martin Olliver" [quote="kheindl(at)msn.com"]It pumps up from the wing. We use it for fuel but it is really meant just for water.I have repaired mine several times and now it has a pinhole in the hose. Construction quality is very poor, but it's useful when it works. Typical Chinese junk. I currently use two 20 l fuel cans but fill them just over halfway to make them easy to lift and hold. The suggestion of pressurizing a sealed fuel can is best, using a mini rechargeable or powered from the car cigarette lighter compressor. Karl I agree with you Karl. I had another system pressurizing a jerry can using a double chamber foot pump metal valve in the cap and tube to bottom of jerry can. This worked a treat even for a high wing aircraft (Luscombe). Another system that works well for low wing aircraft if you have storage, is to fabricate a stand with a large 3 point base. Make sure the platform at the top is higer than the fuel filler hole. Convert a jerry can cap to take a spiggot with fuel hose attached with a fuel tap at the end (to shut down fuel flow in a hurry to stop over filling). Making sure structure is earthed. Then just let gravety do the work. Simple, no moving parts and cheep! Martin. > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Emailing: 51b7gmpPjhL._SL500_AA300_.jpg > From: martflynut@aol.com > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:48:31 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > I think it only pumps to create a siphon. I have read the manufactures blurb but have not seen one in the flesh. Could someone confirm this? > Rgds to all > Martin. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349857#349857 > > > >======================= > > > > > > > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349936#349936 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:01 AM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trial fitting cockpit module Thanks much for that detailed explanation. My cockpit module aligns nearly perfect with the canoe without any cajoling. I could only measure a 0.1-deg misalignment along the longitudinal axis, and that is within the tolerance of my digital inclinometer. So I went ahead and cleco'd the module to the firewall and canoe sides, then removed it, and I am proceeding with populating the module. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > > > Hi Andrew, > >>What I often find confusing with the manual is that it says what to do, but > it doesn't say why. As a scientist, >> I hesitate to do something until I understand why. > > I am the same way, and predict many other builders out there are as well. It > makes for a lot of thinking testing and preplanning before assembling. Many > times one can create better ways (than what is in the manual) to put this > thing together but it also eats up a lot of time. I find myself asking this > question often when starting up a new task...Whats more important, precision > or time? Most often, precision wins out. It is an airplane after all, and > one can't expect to 'pull over' up there in the big blue skyways. Oh well, > long precise build it is :) . > > When building the module up, one needs to check for clearances between the > controls (plywood strengtheners, fuel lines, etc), and the bottom of the > fuselage ..many times. The bearings (or the flange lips) for the control > arms (or the lower side of the control arm bracket) can hit the bottom of > the fuselage. The manual tells you to get them as low as possible ..but they > can be too low. I also remember needing to grind the top layer glass and > PVC away from the bottom of the fuse. (and re-glass to add the strength > back) in the rear where the controls were binding, because they needed > another 1/8" (or so) clearance (Bud has seen this too, apparently ..notice > his reference to CS08). ...other things needed nips and tucks to get to fit > properly. A builder could easily miss these small clearance issues if they > are not careful, resulting in a lot of binding (and a bunch more unexpected > work) once the module is sucked up to the fuse while clecoe-ing or strapping > pre-gluing. During the process of populating the module with controls (and > stuff), I found it convenient to finalize the position of the module at an > early state. If that is not done, the module can slide around too much, and > it just makes it difficult to know where to do the nips and tucks to get > everything to work well together. I am sure you can wait until just before > bonding the cockpit module to the fuse before drilling the placement holes, > if you were very careful to realign it over and over again during the > clearance checks. I opted for aligning it just once in the beginning. There > are sure to be other methods, and possibly better ones out there....but this > one worked well. > > The two holes were placed up front where the module would not deform over > time. It is very strong up in the front around the tunnel area. The lower > part of the tunnel was positively contacting the inside of the fuselage, so > the small bolts went through the forward, lower flange of the module and > through the firewall in that area. The top of the tunnel was not a good > candidate for the bolts, because there was a slight clearance between the > tunnel top and the firewall (other planes might be different?). Putting a > positioning bolt there would cause instability and straining on the module > and the firewall. Better to let the glue fill that in when the big day > arrives. > > I hope that covered it a little better.. > > Greg Fuchs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:32 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trial fitting cockpit module > > > I think my question may have been misunderstood. I realize the importance of > CM alignment to the fuselage. My question is, isn't this alignment best done > after the control tubes and fuel tank are installed rather than on an empty > CM? I was thinking that some deformations to the CM may creep in during the > work, so drilling the alignment holes through the firewall may be best done > when the CM is nearly finished. Or, is the empty CM is significantly lighter > and hence easier to align? > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:48 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trial fitting cockpit module Andrew, You're right I now understand your question. Proceeding with tank and controls in is fine, provided you do not build a twist in when mounting the tank and controls. Keeping two stands perfectly level while building it up is what we do. They are just saw horses (trellis) that support the front and the tank top module area. I don't seem to have a problem ever when installing with tank and controls in. No Reply Necessary Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Sarangan To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trial fitting cockpit module > Thanks much for that detailed explanation. My cockpit module aligns nearly perfect with the canoe without any cajoling. I could only measure a 0.1-deg misalignment along the longitudinal axis, and that is within the tolerance of my digital inclinometer. So I went ahead and cleco'd the module to the firewall and canoe sides, then removed it, and I am proceeding with populating the module. On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Greg Fuchs > wrote: > > > > > Hi Andrew, > >>What I often find confusing with the manual is that it says what to do, but > it doesn't say why. As a scientist, >> I hesitate to do something until I understand why. > > I am the same way, and predict many other builders out there are as well. It > makes for a lot of thinking testing and preplanning before assembling. Many > times one can create better ways (than what is in the manual) to put this > thing together but it also eats up a lot of time. I find myself asking this > question often when starting up a new task...Whats more important, precision > or time? Most often, precision wins out. It is an airplane after all, and > one can't expect to 'pull over' up there in the big blue skyways. Oh well, > long precise build it is :) . > > When building the module up, one needs to check for clearances between the > controls (plywood strengtheners, fuel lines, etc), and the bottom of the > fuselage ..many times. The bearings (or the flange lips) for the control > arms (or the lower side of the control arm bracket) can hit the bottom of > the fuselage. The manual tells you to get them as low as possible ..but they > can be too low. I also remember needing to grind the top layer glass and > PVC away from the bottom of the fuse. (and re-glass to add the strength > back) in the rear where the controls were binding, because they needed > another 1/8" (or so) clearance (Bud has seen this too, apparently ..notice > his reference to CS08). ...other things needed nips and tucks to get to fit > properly. A builder could easily miss these small clearance issues if they > are not careful, resulting in a lot of binding (and a bunch more unexpected > work) once the module is sucked up to the fuse while clecoe-ing or strapping > pre-gluing. During the process of populating the module with controls (and > stuff), I found it convenient to finalize the position of the module at an > early state. If that is not done, the module can slide around too much, and > it just makes it difficult to know where to do the nips and tucks to get > everything to work well together. I am sure you can wait until just before > bonding the cockpit module to the fuse before drilling the placement holes, > if you were very careful to realign it over and over again during the > clearance checks. I opted for aligning it just once in the beginning. There > are sure to be other methods, and possibly better ones out there....but this > one worked well. > > The two holes were placed up front where the module would not deform over > time. It is very strong up in the front around the tunnel area. The lower > part of the tunnel was positively contacting the inside of the fuselage, so > the small bolts went through the forward, lower flange of the module and > through the firewall in that area. The top of the tunnel was not a good > candidate for the bolts, because there was a slight clearance between the > tunnel top and the firewall (other planes might be different?). Putting a > positioning bolt there would cause instability and straining on the module > and the firewall. Better to let the glue fill that in when the big day > arrives. > > I hope that covered it a little better.. > > Greg Fuchs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:32 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trial fitting cockpit module > > > > I think my question may have been misunderstood. I realize the importance of > CM alignment to the fuselage. My question is, isn't this alignment best done > after the control tubes and fuel tank are installed rather than on an empty > CM? I was thinking that some deformations to the CM may creep in during the > work, so drilling the alignment holes through the firewall may be best done > when the CM is nearly finished. Or, is the empty CM is significantly lighter > and hence easier to align? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.