Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - 914 Prop Question (Tony Renshaw)
2. 12:56 AM - Re: oil thermostat mod (graeme bird)
3. 01:00 AM - Tailwheel angle stop (graeme bird)
4. 01:09 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Tim Ward)
5. 01:19 AM - Tailwheel angle stop & weighing (graeme bird)
6. 01:27 AM - Re: Tailwheel angle stop (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
7. 01:59 AM - Re: Tailwheel angle stop & weighing (Carl Pattinson)
8. 02:07 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (David Joyce)
9. 03:11 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Mike Toft)
10. 07:58 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Mothballed...what service??? (Tony Renshaw)
11. 08:00 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Tony Renshaw)
12. 10:34 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Fred Klein)
13. 11:54 AM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Rob Housman)
14. 12:18 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (ROBERT LINDSAY)
15. 01:12 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Andrew Sarangan)
16. 01:27 PM - Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (Rob Housman)
17. 01:45 PM - Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
18. 02:16 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (David Joyce)
19. 02:17 PM - Fuel Filler Neck (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
20. 02:17 PM - Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (Max Cointe)
21. 02:35 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (G-IANI)
22. 02:50 PM - Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (Jeff B)
23. 02:56 PM - Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (Rob Housman)
24. 03:36 PM - Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs (Rob Housman)
25. 03:36 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
26. 07:17 PM - Re: Fuel Filler Neck (Gavin and Anne Lee)
27. 07:53 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question,,,,,,,,Thanks for the responses (Tony Renshaw)
28. 09:03 PM - Re: 914 Prop Question (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 914 Prop Question |
Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I still
have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm nevertheless
wondering if more learned people would care to comment on whether a fixed pitch
prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I know the pitch of the prop
would need to be determined to suit the style of flying I prefer, and lets say
that is to go as fast as my engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75% power.
To that end I reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but recent
video of Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order
of a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations
are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder of
anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats why
I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also, there might
be some issues at altitude, although simplistically I believe the prop works in
an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter. I think there is probably even
issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong with that last statement, so I'm
happy to read whatever someone can contribute.
Thanks
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: oil thermostat mod |
Thanks Steve, very helpful.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350715#350715
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tailwheel angle stop |
I am just at final inspection stage but I am not impressed with the small pin as
the limit stop having already snapped it off once. I have seen a better way
that looks to be part of the rod/rudder (graham singleton) mod. I dont want to
redo all the inside rudder, but could I just use the limit bit does anyone know,
and is it through Europa?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350716#350716
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Tony,
I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you opt for the 914 Rotax then a constant
speed propeller would be appropriate. Simply to utilize the extra power
in the most efficient way allows you to get out of difficult situations.
Airmaster propeller system is just a delight to use and such a reassurance in the
countryside we fly over here.
I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you will be very pleased with
the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
.
Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the left seat I hear. I
spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it very much.
Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
On 27/08/2011, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I still
have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm nevertheless
wondering if more learned people would care to comment on whether a fixed pitch
prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I know the pitch of the prop
would need to be determined to suit the style of flying I prefer, and lets say
that is to go as fast as my engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75%
power. To that end I reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but recent
video of Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order
of a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations
are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder of
anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats why
I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also, there might
be some issues at altitude, although simplistically !
> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter. I
think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong with that
last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone can contribute.
> Thanks
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tailwheel angle stop & weighing |
I am just at final inspection stage but I am not impressed with the small pin as
the limit stop having already snapped it off once while moving it around. I
have seen a better way that looks to be part of the rod/rudder (graham singleton)
mod. I dont want to redo all the inside rudder, but could I just use the limit
bit does anyone know, and is it through Europa?
Had the plane weighed, by that nice Roy Sears (inexpensive compared to PlaneWeights)
measured 369.5 kg 814.6lb but I dont know if thats normal or what also cofg
1.534m 60.2"
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350718#350718
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel angle stop |
Hi Grame
" I have seen a better way that looks to be part of the
rod/rudder (Graham Singleton) mod. I don't want to redo all the
inside rudder, but could I just use the limit bit does anyone know, and
is it through Europa?"
I tried to buy just the stop from Graham but at the time he didn't
have any nor was he planning on making them. I think Europa is selling
his Mod kit, perhaps you could get just the stop from them?
I made my own stop along with several other tail wheel mods.
See two pages:
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=27732&g2_page=1
Ron Parigoris
Message 7
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| Subject: | Tailwheel angle stop & weighing |
Hello Graeme,
You probably noticed that I have the same tail wheel installation as yours.
Knowing that the roll pin had a reputation for snapping I never installed it
and as far as I can see it doesn't affect the handling at all. When the
aircraft is going forward the movement is curtailed by the rudder cables. I
guess it depends on whether your inspector is happy with this (ie: the pin
being removed). As you will have discovered when it snapped it serves no
useful purpose.
You just have to be a bit careful when pushing the aircraft backwards but as
you may have noticed I have a trolley which the tail wheel drops into when
I'm moving the aircraft in the hangar.
Your aircraft weighs the same as ours - 815 lbs and the c of g at 60.2 is
about as good as it gets. The limits are 58 - 62.5 with 60 being the ideal.
I have the pilots handbook with the weighing and c of g notes if you would
like to see these. I could scan and email the relavent pages.
Regards,
Carl
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird
Sent: 27 August 2011 09:17
Subject: Europa-List: Tailwheel angle stop & weighing
I am just at final inspection stage but I am not impressed with the small
pin as the limit stop having already snapped it off once while moving it
around. I have seen a better way that looks to be part of the rod/rudder
(graham singleton) mod. I dont want to redo all the inside rudder, but could
I just use the limit bit does anyone know, and is it through Europa?
Had the plane weighed, by that nice Roy Sears (inexpensive compared to
PlaneWeights) measured 369.5 kg 814.6lb but I dont know if thats normal or
what also cofg 1.534m 60.2"
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350718#350718
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Tim, I wouldn't be without my wobbly prop - would rather trade in the 914
for a 912S if pressed to the choice. You may have a long runway to base
yourself at but it's likely you will want to get in/out of a short grass
strip or a shortish, high, hot runway where every bit of performance is
welcome. There is also the consideration that the speed range of the Europa
is so wide (stall speed less than a third of maximum cruise speed) that a
fixed pitch prop inevitably seriously cramps performance at one or other end
of the range..
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Prop Question
>
> Tony,
> I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you opt for the 914 Rotax then
> a constant speed propeller would be appropriate. Simply to utilize the
> extra power in the most efficient way allows you to get out of difficult
> situations.
> Airmaster propeller system is just a delight to use and such a reassurance
> in the countryside we fly over here.
> I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you will be very
> pleased with the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
> .
>
> Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the left seat I
> hear. I spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it very much.
>
> Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> Ph 64 3 3515166
> Mob 0210640221
>
>
> On 27/08/2011, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>>
>> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth
>> I still have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm
>> nevertheless wondering if more learned people would care to comment on
>> whether a fixed pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I
>> know the pitch of the prop would need to be determined to suit the style
>> of flying I prefer, and lets say that is to go as fast as my
>> engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75% power. To that end I
>> reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but recent video of
>> Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order of a
>> couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other
>> limitations are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of
>> a builder of anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I
>> don't and thats why I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know
>> them. Also, there might be some issues at altitude, although
>> simplisticall!
> y !
>> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't
>> matter. I think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might
>> be wrong with that last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone
>> can contribute.
>> Thanks
>> Reg
>> Tony Renshaw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Tony,
I have a 914 with the Airmaster Prop and the versatility and performance is exceptional
- it is able to absorb almost any change of power setting and I seriously
doubt a fixed pitch will be able to handle the additional 15hp boost at 115%
- you will likely end up with an rpm overspeed - in which case stay with the
912S
Mike
On 27 Aug 2011, at 11:05 AM, David Joyce wrote:
>
> Tim, I wouldn't be without my wobbly prop - would rather trade in the 914 for
a 912S if pressed to the choice. You may have a long runway to base yourself
at but it's likely you will want to get in/out of a short grass strip or a shortish,
high, hot runway where every bit of performance is welcome. There is also
the consideration that the speed range of the Europa is so wide (stall speed
less than a third of maximum cruise speed) that a fixed pitch prop inevitably
seriously cramps performance at one or other end of the range..
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Prop Question
>
>
>>
>> Tony,
>> I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you opt for the 914 Rotax then a
constant speed propeller would be appropriate. Simply to utilize the extra power
in the most efficient way allows you to get out of difficult situations.
>> Airmaster propeller system is just a delight to use and such a reassurance in
the countryside we fly over here.
>> I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you will be very pleased
with the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
>> .
>>
>> Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the left seat I hear.
I spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it very much.
>>
>> Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Ward
>> 12 Waiwetu Street
>> Fendalton,
>> Christchurch, 8052
>> New Zealand.
>>
>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>
>> Ph 64 3 3515166
>> Mob 0210640221
>>
>>
>> On 27/08/2011, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I
still have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm nevertheless
wondering if more learned people would care to comment on whether a fixed
pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I know the pitch of the prop
would need to be determined to suit the style of flying I prefer, and lets
say that is to go as fast as my engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75%
power. To that end I reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but
recent video of Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order
of a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations
are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder
of anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats
why I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also, there might
be some issues at altitude, although simplisticall!
>> y !
>>> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter.
I think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong with
that last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone can contribute.
>>> Thanks
>>> Reg
>>> Tony Renshaw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Mothballed...what service??? |
Hey Bob,
About my 914, still in its box, "no" I haven't checked with Bert Flood. What I
want is to get a perspective other than Bert Floods of what is required. I want
to check up on what they tell me, but I am attempting to do it in reverse order.
So, the plan was to get overseas opinion such that I would know what the
collective view was of what I needed to do, before I spoke to Bert Flood Imports.
Anyway, right or wrong, that was the plan.
Reg
Tony R.
On 26/08/2011, at 5:24 PM, JR Gowing wrote:
>
> Tony
> Did you read your manual?
> Why not ask the agent in Melbourne?
> JR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
> Sent: Monday, 15 August 2011 5:18 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Mothballed...what service???
>
> --> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> My engine, a 914 is a 2004 model, and still sits in its new box. I bought it
> a couple of years ago and am wondering about what advice people would
> recommend in relation to maintaining its integrity, and maybe modding it at
> the same time. I wish to get it serviced by my local Rotax dealer, to
> inspect and protect it. A work colleague who is an ex car mechanic mentioned
> the crankshaft bearing housings can absorb moisture and corrosion can
> therefore occur. Not sure if this sort of concern is applicable to my
> engine, but in essence that is like an engine rebuild. What should I
> consider doing?
> Lastly, if it did need the block being split, is there a metal coating I
> could have applied, even paint, that would stop that "corroded look" some
> engines develop as they get older??'
> Thanks
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Aussie.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Thanks Tim,
Getting locked out might have the up side in that I might finish my Europa !!
TR
On 27/08/2011, at 6:08 PM, Tim Ward wrote:
>
> Tony,
> I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you opt for the 914 Rotax then a
constant speed propeller would be appropriate. Simply to utilize the extra power
in the most efficient way allows you to get out of difficult situations.
> Airmaster propeller system is just a delight to use and such a reassurance in
the countryside we fly over here.
> I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you will be very pleased
with the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
> .
>
> Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the left seat I hear.
I spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it very much.
>
> Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> Ph 64 3 3515166
> Mob 0210640221
>
>
> On 27/08/2011, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I still
have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm nevertheless
wondering if more learned people would care to comment on whether a fixed pitch
prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I know the pitch of the prop
would need to be determined to suit the style of flying I prefer, and lets
say that is to go as fast as my engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75%
power. To that end I reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but recent
video of Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order
of a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations
are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder
of anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats why
I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also, there might
be some issues at altitude, although simplisticall!
> y !
>> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter. I
think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong with
that last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone can contribute.
>> Thanks
>> Reg
>> Tony Renshaw
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Hi Tony,
You wrote:
> I'm nevertheless wondering if more learned people would care to
> comment on whether a fixed pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could
> work on a 914.
I first met Catto (that would be Craig, not "Bob") in the mid-70s when
he was a 15 yr. old kid carving props in his parents' garage...rather
audacious stuff...I think I've seen the recent videos to which you
refer...as you know, he now has an impressive record for designing and
building specialty props for a broad spectrum of aircraft and uses.
Glenn Crowder (on the europa list) is very happy w/ his Catto on his
125 hp Sube-powered Classic which he flies out of Golden, CO (@5000+
ASL)...Glenn can compare performance w/ (I believe) his in-flight
adjustable NSI prop.
If you can track down the CAFE test data done on Kim Prout's Classic
and forward it to Catto, perhaps that info could guide Catto to be
able to estimate what he can do in the way of a FP prop for your
XS...he, of course, has his data from Glenn's prop as well.
As others have opined, matching the Europa to a FP prop is somewhat
counter intuitive, but depending upon your operational requirements, I
suspect it might work for you.
Fred
Message 13
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| Subject: | 914 Prop Question |
You can see the CAFE report here:
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/Europa%20APR.pdf
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Prop Question
Hi Tony,
You wrote:
> I'm nevertheless wondering if more learned people would care to
> comment on whether a fixed pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work
> on a 914.
I first met Catto (that would be Craig, not "Bob") in the mid-70s when he
was a 15 yr. old kid carving props in his parents' garage...rather audacious
stuff...I think I've seen the recent videos to which you refer...as you
know, he now has an impressive record for designing and building specialty
props for a broad spectrum of aircraft and uses.
Glenn Crowder (on the europa list) is very happy w/ his Catto on his
125 hp Sube-powered Classic which he flies out of Golden, CO (@5000+
ASL)...Glenn can compare performance w/ (I believe) his in-flight adjustable
NSI prop.
If you can track down the CAFE test data done on Kim Prout's Classic and
forward it to Catto, perhaps that info could guide Catto to be able to
estimate what he can do in the way of a FP prop for your XS...he, of course,
has his data from Glenn's prop as well.
As others have opined, matching the Europa to a FP prop is somewhat counter
intuitive, but depending upon your operational requirements, I suspect it
might work for you.
Fred
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
About the turn of the century the Europa Florida US office tested various
engine/prop combinations. One conclusion was that the 914 fixed prop
combination had a signicant issue at higher altitudes. The 914 having a
critical altitude of 16Kft resulted in needing to reduce throttle setting to
prevent prop overspeed as one climbed into the teens. It seems to me that
if you are not going to go high or don't have density altitude problems, you
are better off with a 912.
Bob Lindsay
914/Whirlwind XS Monowheel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List: 914 Prop Question
>
> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I
> still have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm
> nevertheless wondering if more learned people would care to comment on
> whether a fixed pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I
> know the pitch of the prop would need to be determined to suit the style
> of flying I prefer, and lets say that is to go as fast as my
> engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75% power. To that end I reckon
> my takeoff performance will be compromised, but recent video of Bob Catto
> speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order of a couple of
> hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations are
> there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder of
> anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats
> why I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also,
> there might be some issues at altitude, although simplistically !
> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter.
> I think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong
> with that last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone can
> contribute.
> Thanks
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Not sure if this makes sense or not, but how about installing a simple
fixed pitch first and then upgrading to a constant speed? My feeling
is that the chances of ground loops or prop strikes are greater during
the first few months of flying. I recall reading about a landing gear
failure while taxiing.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 6:07 AM, Mike Toft <watervet@mweb.co.za> wrote:
>
> Tony,
>
> I have a 914 with the Airmaster Prop and the versatility and performance is exceptional
- it is able to absorb almost any change of power setting and I seriously
doubt a fixed pitch will be able to handle the additional 15hp boost at
115% - you will likely end up with an rpm overspeed - in which case stay with
the 912S
> Mike
> On 27 Aug 2011, at 11:05 AM, David Joyce wrote:
>
>>
>> Tim, I wouldn't be without my wobbly prop - would rather trade in the 914 for
a 912S if pressed to the choice. You may have a long runway to base yourself
at but it's likely you will want to get in/out of a short grass strip or a shortish,
high, hot runway where every bit of performance is welcome. There is also
the consideration that the speed range of the Europa is so wide (stall speed
less than a third of maximum cruise speed) that a fixed pitch prop inevitably
seriously cramps performance at one or other end of the range..
>> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 9:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Prop Question
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Tony,
>>> I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you opt for the 914 Rotax then a
constant speed propeller would be appropriate. Simply to utilize the extra power
in the most efficient way allows you to get out of difficult situations.
>>> Airmaster propeller system is just a delight to use and such a reassurance
in the countryside we fly over here.
>>> I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you will be very pleased
with the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
>>> .
>>>
>>> Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the left seat I hear.
I spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it very much.
>>>
>>> Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Tim Ward
>>> 12 Waiwetu Street
>>> Fendalton,
>>> Christchurch, 8052
>>> New Zealand.
>>>
>>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>>
>>> Ph 64 3 3515166
>>> Mob 0210640221
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27/08/2011, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In truth I
still have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again. I'm nevertheless
wondering if more learned people would care to comment on whether a fixed
pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a 914. I know the pitch of the
prop would need to be determined to suit the style of flying I prefer, and lets
say that is to go as fast as my engine/airframe combination will allow, at 75%
power. To that end I reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but
recent video of Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the order
of a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other limitations
are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a builder
of anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don't and thats
why I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know them. Also, there might
be some issues at altitude, although simplistica!
> ll!
>>> y !
>>>> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so maybe it doesn't matter.
I think there is probably even issues of aerodynamics that might be wrong with
that last statement, so I'm happy to read whatever someone can contribute.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Reg
>>>> Tony Renshaw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
I've encountered another one of those "minor" problems I have come to accept
as normal with the factory's step child, the Tri-Gear.
The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the
opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This
seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly
elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off
some of the end of the hook.
Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with
this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Tony, One benefit of a VP prop that I don't believe has been mentioned but
which reference to ground looping brings to mind is that in fine pitch the
slowing down effect of the idling prop is very noticeably greater than in
coarse pitch. If you are trying to glide somewhere and the prop pitch change
system still works, fine pitch is a great asset whereas to stop in a short
distance you definitely want it in fine. On T/Off fine pitch also takes you
very quickl;y through the dodgy steering phase if you have a mono. Clearly a
fixed pitch prop is going to miss out somewhat on both counts. So I guess
you are less likely to lose control on the ground and end up ground looping
if you have a VP/CS prop.
Incidentally have you looked at the list of flying planes on
the Europa Club website where engines & props are listed for pretty much
every flying Europa?
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Fuel Filler Neck |
I went out to calibrate my Princeton Capacitance meter today and the first step
is to fill the tank. I Have the metal tube between the filler neck and the tank
with a black rubber coupling on each end, between the metal and the glass filler
neck, and the metal and the glass tank. I found that gas leaked a little
on both ends of the metal tube. When I used a paper towel to clean the gas off,
it had a big, black streak on it from the rubber coupling tube. More gas, more
black. The tube looks like radiator hose, but I am sure it came with the kit.
If avgas is causing it to break down, am I using the proper material on both
ends? If not, what should be used?
Jim Puglise
A283 -- Close to flying
Message 20
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| Subject: | Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
Hi there,
Bought the mod71 and installed it last July. Fitted perfectly to the
gear
frame, so either the springs are not the right ones or your frame is
wrong=85
Cheers,
Max Cointe
Auxerre, France
Kit #560 3-gear 912ULS / 385 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Rob
Housman
Envoy=E9 : samedi 27 ao=FBt 2011 22:24
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with
springs
I=92ve encountered another one of those =93minor=94 problems I have come
to accept
as normal with the factory=92s step child, the Tri-Gear.
The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the
opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm).
This
seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly
elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut
off
some of the end of the hook.
Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with
this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
Message 21
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| Subject: | 914 Prop Question |
Graeme
There are two LAA standard Mod to fit an oil thermostat to a 912. You will
find this under Rotax 9xx mods rather than under Europa. SM12808 is a
little more expensive. Let me know if you have any questions.
I have attached a copy for you.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
Rob,
I used a cutoff tool and trimmed the end of the spring. Works fine for
5+ years...
Jeff - Baby Blue
On 8/27/2011 3:24 PM, Rob Housman wrote:
> Ive encountered another one of those minor problems I have come to
> accept as normal with the factorys step child, the Tri-Gear.
>
> The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the
> opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm).
> This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one
> particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the
> spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.
>
> Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with
> this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Irvine, California
>
> Europa XS
>
> Rotax 914
>
> S/N A070
>
> Airframe complete
>
> Avionics soon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
Although it is usually not a good idea, because a drawing may not be to
scale, I =93verified=94 the diameter of the Landing Gear Frame as 39.4
mm by
doing just that from Fig. 6 of the Mod. This suggests that the spring
is
not quite right. Using the same scale, the opening at the hook (on Fig.
6)
is 38.1 mm, almost 4 mm greater than the actual spring I have, but still
less than the diameter of the LGF. I=92ll allow for errors I may have
made in
scaling from Fig. 6 but is now looks like the factory may not have
allowed
much clearance when the springs were designed.
Soooo, shall I cut or bend? Anyone?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Max Cointe
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement
with
springs
Hi there,
Bought the mod71 and installed it last July. Fitted perfectly to the
gear
frame, so either the springs are not the right ones or your frame is
wrong=85
Cheers,
Max Cointe
Auxerre, France
Kit #560 3-gear 912ULS / 385 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Rob
Housman
Envoy=E9 : samedi 27 ao=FBt 2011 22:24
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with
springs
I=92ve encountered another one of those =93minor=94 problems I have come
to accept
as normal with the factory=92s step child, the Tri-Gear.
The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the
opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm).
This
seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly
elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut
off
some of the end of the hook.
Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with
this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
Message 24
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| Subject: | Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs |
Just what I wanted to hear - something that works. Thank you very much.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with
springs
Rob,
I used a cutoff tool and trimmed the end of the spring. Works fine for
5+ years...
Jeff - Baby Blue
On 8/27/2011 3:24 PM, Rob Housman wrote:
> I've encountered another one of those "minor" problems I have come to
> accept as normal with the factory's step child, the Tri-Gear.
>
> The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the
> opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm).
> This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one
> particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the
> spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.
>
> Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt
> with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Irvine, California
>
> Europa XS
>
> Rotax 914
>
> S/N A070
>
> Airframe complete
>
> Avionics soon
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
Tony=0AI hear that flying transport is a more civilsed way to earn a living
. A friend =0Aof mine recently resigned from LH seat 747 and is planning to
do just that. =0ADon't buy your prop until you are nearer needing it, same
with =0Ainstrumentation/avionics. They are getting better steadily, if you
buy now you =0Awill be owning second best by the time you fly (imho btw!)
=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Tony Re
nshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sa
turday, 27 August, 2011 15:57:38=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Prop Quest
ail.com>=0A=0AThanks Tim,=0AGetting locked out might have the up side in th
at I might finish my Europa !!=0ATR=0A=0A=0AOn 27/08/2011, at 6:08 PM, Tim
.co.nz>=0A> =0A> Tony,=0A> I am not an expert. However, I believe, if you
opt for the 914 Rotax then a =0A>constant speed propeller would be appropri
ate. Simply to utilize the extra power =0A>in the most efficient way allows
you to get out of difficult situations.=0A> Airmaster propeller system is
just a delight to use and such a reassurance in =0A>the countryside we fly
over here.=0A> I know it comes from this side of the Tasman however you wil
l be very pleased =0A>with the ingenuity and simplicity of the Airmaster.
=0A> .=0A> =0A> Hope all is well with you. Now flying the big one from the
left seat I hear. I =0A>spent 14 years from the right seat and enjoyed it v
ery much.=0A> =0A> Good luck on the industrial side, don't get locked out!
=0A> =0A> Cheers,=0A> =0A> Tim=0A> =0A> Tim Ward=0A> 12 Waiwetu Street=0A>
Fendalton,=0A> Christchurch, 8052=0A> New Zealand.=0A> =0A> ward.t@xtra.co
.nz=0A> =0A> Ph 64 3 3515166=0A> Mob 0210640221=0A> =0A> =0A> On 27/08/2011
, at 7:34 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:=0A> =0A>> -->
Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>>
=0A>> Its been a long while since I've had to think much about props. In t
ruth I =0A>>still have a lot of building to go before I have to worry again
. I'm =0A>>nevertheless wondering if more learned people would care to comm
ent on whether a =0A>>fixed pitch prop, maybe a Catto prop, could work on a
914. I know the pitch of =0A>>the prop would need to be determined to suit
the style of flying I prefer, and =0A>>lets say that is to go as fast as m
y engine/airframe combination will allow, at =0A>>75% power. To that end I
reckon my takeoff performance will be compromised, but =0A>>recent video of
Bob Catto speaking makes me believe it might only be in the =0A>>order of
a couple of hundred feet. If I can deal with that, well what other =0A>>lim
itations are there that haven't come to mind yet? Does anyone know of a =0A
>>builder of anything that has strapped a fixed pitch prop to a 914? I don'
t and =0A>>thats why I'm asking. There might be a bunch, I just don't know
them. Also, =0A>>there might be some issues at altitude, although simplisti
cal!=0Al!=0A> y !=0A>> I believe the prop works in an IAS environment so ma
ybe it doesn't matter. I =0A>>think there is probably even issues of aerody
namics that might be wrong with =0A>>that last statement, so I'm happy to r
ead whatever someone can contribute. =0A>>=0A>> Thanks=0A>> Reg=0A>> Tony R
enshaw=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A
=================
Message 26
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| Subject: | Fuel Filler Neck |
Had the same problem, you need to seal the connections between the metal
and the rubber, best way to do this is with redux (or what ever they
call it nowdays) mix some up and smear it inside the rubber connecting
pieces and then reassemble and tighten the hose clamps, haven=99t
had a problem since
Gavin Lee ##355 ZK-EPA
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimpuglise@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, 28 August 2011 9:15 a.m.
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Filler Neck
I went out to calibrate my Princeton Capacitance meter today and the
first step is to fill the tank. I Have the metal tube between the
filler neck and the tank with a black rubber coupling on each end,
between the metal and the glass filler neck, and the metal and the glass
tank. I found that gas leaked a little on both ends of the metal tube.
When I used a paper towel to clean the gas off, it had a big, black
streak on it from the rubber coupling tube. More gas, more black. The
tube looks like radiator hose, but I am sure it came with the kit. If
avgas is causing it to break down, am I using the proper material on
both ends? If not, what should be used?
Jim Puglise
A283 -- Close to flying
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question,,,,,,,,Thanks for the responses |
Thanks to all that replied regarding the negatives of a Fixed Pitch prop on a 914.
It was more a revision of knowledge than a serious desire, but Bob Catto is
a very impressive fellow and it got me thinking. As for better abilities in
gliding and stopping re pitch settings and other good advice, I am now the wiser.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
On 28/08/2011, at 7:12 AM, David Joyce wrote:
>
> Tony, One benefit of a VP prop that I don't believe has been mentioned but which
reference to ground looping brings to mind is that in fine pitch the slowing
down effect of the idling prop is very noticeably greater than in coarse pitch.
If you are trying to glide somewhere and the prop pitch change system still
works, fine pitch is a great asset whereas to stop in a short distance you
definitely want it in fine. On T/Off fine pitch also takes you very quickl;y
through the dodgy steering phase if you have a mono. Clearly a fixed pitch prop
is going to miss out somewhat on both counts. So I guess you are less likely
to lose control on the ground and end up ground looping if you have a VP/CS
prop.
> Incidentally have you looked at the list of flying planes on the Europa
Club website where engines & props are listed for pretty much every flying
Europa?
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Prop Question |
On Aug 27, 2011, at 3:33 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> I hear that flying transport is a more civilsed way to earn a living.
Graham...translation needed for (some of) the Yanks...What indeed is
"flying transport"?
Would that be the art of "transporting"?...Is this related to
"trainspotting"?
Fred
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