---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/14/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: Garmin pilot III required (Richard Lamprey) 2. 03:29 AM - Re: Re: Garmin pilot III required (PHILLIPS I) 3. 03:52 AM - Re: Garmin pilot III required (PHILLIPS I) 4. 05:33 AM - Door Mech Coverplates (Tony Renshaw) 5. 06:41 AM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Alan Burrill) 7. 10:09 AM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Greg Fuchs) 8. 11:44 AM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Robert Borger) 9. 11:52 AM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Europa Murphy Collection) (Raimo Toivio) 10. 05:48 PM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Tony Renshaw) 11. 06:40 PM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Europa Murphy Collection) (Greg Fuchs) 12. 08:30 PM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Fred Klein) 13. 08:53 PM - Re: Door Mech Coverplates (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Garmin pilot III required From: "Richard Lamprey" The Pilot III was a great GPS, but had its limitations. The most serious being the reliance on its internal lithium battery to retain waypoints, routes etc. When this tiny battery ran down (Garmin said it should last about 3-5 years), the GPS lost everything. So if you haednt backed it up to PC on Mapsource or PCX5, you were in trouble. The battery is readily available in shops (it is standard penny type battery, I forget the code) but changing this battery is very difficult, as it is soldered into the board by tiny wires. You have to open the GPS right up, and have a soldering iron handy. With mine, Garmin reommended I send it back to an authorized agent in UK for replacement, but I live in Africa so this is not possible in our postal service run by thieves. So I did a replacement myself with a soldering iron, it did OK for a couple of years, then on the next replacement the wires came out of the board, and it really was time to bin-it. The new Garmins dont need the internal battery any more. I would not get a Pilot III again, when you have the 96 available or 196, or 296 etc. Richard, Kenya, Europa 5Y-LRY Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352243#352243 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Garmin pilot III required From: PHILLIPS I That's Interesting Richard but my pilot lll is over 15 years old and i have never changed the internal battery, I have always made sure the double AA battery's are fresh and run from the aircraft power for all my flying, it still holds routes in its memory and works very well, for the little money i would get for it i will continue to keep it as a backup, Ivor G-IVER On 14 September 2011 08:36, Richard Lamprey wrote: > lamprey.richard@gmail.com> > > The Pilot III was a great GPS, but had its limitations. The most serious > being the reliance on its internal lithium battery to retain waypoints, > routes etc. When this tiny battery ran down (Garmin said it should last > about 3-5 years), the GPS lost everything. So if you haednt backed it up to > PC on Mapsource or PCX5, you were in trouble. The battery is readily > available in shops (it is standard penny type battery, I forget the code) > but changing this battery is very difficult, as it is soldered into the > board by tiny wires. You have to open the GPS right up, and have a > soldering iron handy. With mine, Garmin reommended I send it back to an > authorized agent in UK for replacement, but I live in Africa so this is not > possible in our postal service run by thieves. So I did a replacement > myself with a soldering iron, it did OK for a couple of years, then on the > next replacement the wires came out of the board, and it really was time to > bin-it. The new Garmins dont need the! > internal battery any more. I would not get a Pilot III again, when you > have the 96 available or 196, or 296 etc. > Richard, Kenya, Europa 5Y-LRY > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352243#352243 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Garmin pilot III required From: PHILLIPS I Hi Raimo pleased to hear your Mosquito population is on the decline in Finland, They must have moved to Texel last weekend, i still have the bumps to prove it, I still keep my old garmin and use it as a DME for final destination and heading, As long as it still works it worth keeping in the aircraft, mine is fitted very close to the portside door upright never in my way but easy to use, IMHO its a keeper, best wishes to you and your Family Ivor G-IVER On 13 September 2011 18:19, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Hi Ivor, > > I still have a Pilot III: should I make it to be as a back-up GPS? > It has not been fired up since 2007. > > Not so much mosquitos here any more ' it is raining ' you would be ha ppy... > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > [image: Europa A2A-ala2OK] > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 252,2 /452 > > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi**** > > > *From:* PHILLIPS I > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:00 PM > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Garmin pilot III required > > > Why not on a Europa ? > My original Pilot lll is still doing Stirling work after 15 years on mine , > far better than a ADF/DME for a fraction of the cost with a three hour > battery > backup, > In answer to your question i think there was one for sale on the LAA > website > a while back, not sure if its still available > regards > Ivor > G-IVER > On 12 September 2011 20:47, graeme bird wrote: > >> >> Has anyone an old European Pilot III kicking around or know where I can >> get mine repaired? I think they go for about 90-100GBP. >> >> Dont worry its not on a Europa! >> >> -------- >> Graeme Bird >> G-UMPY >> Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP >> Build nearing completion >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352077#352077 >> ist Un/Subscription, >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:55 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates From: Tony Renshaw Hi, I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciated. Reg Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:35 AM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates Tony- You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly break, it will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut plates and screw them on, you will never need to remove them. This is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily accessible will not break." Jim Puglise A238 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Renshaw" Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 10:06:16 PM Subject: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates Hi, I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciated. Reg Tony Renshaw ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:40 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates The manual says bond the cover plate on to retain strength and integrity of t he door? Alan Sent from my iPod On 14 Sep 2011, at 14:37, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > Tony- > > You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly break, i t will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut plates and screw t hem on, you will never need to remove them. This is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily accessible will not break." > > Jim Puglise > A238 > > From: "Tony Renshaw" > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 10:06:16 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates > > > Hi, > I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Fi nally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering wheth er returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in rea lity what is the chances. Any advice much appreciat &nbs ======================= > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:25 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates AH HAHAHA!!! LOL. So true!!! Murphy is a very strong force. This is for Jims statement :) ......and this is for Murphy :P I am still wrestling with this decision as well, and keep trying to think of a way to restore more strength so as not to have to bond...such as large overlaps, and a sliding fit with overlapping glass used as bonds on the sides, but unattatched (or something like that). No conclusions yet...sorry. Just felt like piping in with interest in the subject, even with the lack of gameplan and to hack on ol' Murph :) Greg Fuchs _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimpuglise@comcast.net Tony- You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly break, it will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut plates and screw them on, you will never need to remove them. This is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily accessible will not break." Jim Puglise A238 _____ From: "Tony Renshaw" Hi, I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciat &nbs======================= ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:42 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates Tony, I cogitated on this for quite a while before going ahead and following the build manual and bonding the covers in place. Probably because they were bonded (thanks to Murphy), it became necessary to gain access to the innards several years later. The brief application of heat from a heat-gun allowed the covers to be popped off quite easily. Not as easy as a couple screws into nut-plates, but still easy. I fully intend to bond them on again. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Europa XS, Short Wing, Intercooled Rotax 914 rlborger@mac.com Cel: 817-992-1117 On Sep 9, 2011, at 9:06 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > Hi, > I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciated. > Reg > Tony Renshaw > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:18 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates (Europa Murphy Collection) In my case, I have two good examples where Mr M is very succesful and so far not so succesful: 1) During the building phase, I decided my strobo power unit will last for ever (that means let us say 1000 flight hours or more). That was inbuilt inside the fin w/o the access panel and it was glued very hard there. Today, I have an access panel and there are two power units now: one broken which is impossible to remove out and one operational one. 2) During the building phase, I decided my trim motor unit will last for ever. That is assembled w/o the nut plates. So far it has worked fine, also through scary strikes or St. Elmo=C2=B4s fires =93 only the trim display and the relay unit was destroyed then. Door Mechanics: no access panels =93 totally inbuilt and they will last for ever (that is why I am only person who is allowed to use the door handles of RT=C2=B4s when closing the doors and shooting the bolts outward =93 I feel the necessary power required). Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 252,2 /454 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi From: Greg Fuchs Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:03 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates AH HAHAHA!!! LOL. So true!!! Murphy is a very strong force. This is for Jims statement :) ......and this is for Murphy :P I am still wrestling with this decision as well, and keep trying to think of a way to restore more strength so as not to have to bond...such as large overlaps, and a sliding fit with overlapping glass used as bonds on the sides, but unattatched (or something like that). No conclusions yet...sorry. Just felt like piping in with interest in the subject, even with the lack of gameplan and to hack on ol' Murph :) Greg Fuchs ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimpuglise@comcast.net Tony- You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly break, it will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut plates and screw them on, you will never need to remove them. This is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily accessible will not break." Jim Puglise A238 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: "Tony Renshaw" Hi, I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciat &nbs======================= ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates From: Tony Renshaw Think I'll go with the nutplate idea. Thanks for the input. Tony Renshaw On 15/09/2011, at 3:03 AM, Greg Fuchs wrote: > AH HAHAHA!!! LOL. So true!!! Murphy is a very strong force. This is for > Jims statement :) ......and this is for Murphy :P > > I am still wrestling with this decision as well, and keep trying to think of > a way to restore more strength so as not to have to bond...such as large > overlaps, and a sliding fit with overlapping glass used as bonds on the > sides, but unattatched (or something like that). > No conclusions yet...sorry. Just felt like piping in with interest in the > subject, even with the lack of gameplan and to hack on ol' Murph :) > > Greg Fuchs > > _____ > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jimpuglise@comcast.net > > Tony- > > You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly break, it > will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut plates and screw > them on, you will never need to remove them. This is the second corollary > to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily accessible will not break." > > Jim Puglise > A238 > > > _____ > > From: "Tony Renshaw" > Hi, > I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech coverplates. > Finally, I am satisfied I have done a good job in there, so am wondering > whether returning the original strength might have some merit. I realize to > redux them in place creates quite a problem if I need to get in there, but > in reality what is the chances. Any advice much appreciat > &nbs======================= > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:36 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates (Europa Murphy Collection) Wow Raimo, I am glad that you guaranteed the new strobo unit will last forever, by making it removable. That could have been a continuing series there, LOL While being impeccably careful, Murphy pulled a heavy drill bit out of the (loosening) tightener on my drill, and 'kerplunked' it right into the middle of the foam-filled tailplane, where it is impossible to remove without surgery. A hole drilled in the same cavity which is somewhat bigger than the bit ought to do to get it out, but I don't want to tell Mr (eyes sweeping left then right).....'M' that ...(shhhh). That was years ago, its still there .......and he's been laughing at me the whole darn time during the rest of the build! :) I am glad he can have so much fun. Hopefully the time he spends with his continuing humor on one project will detract him from success on some of the other ones. He does seem to have a lot of bountiful time on his hands though, so it is probably just futile. heehee Greg F. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio In my case, I have two good examples where Mr M is very succesful and so far not so succesful: 1) During the building phase, I decided my strobo power unit will last for ever (that means let us say 1000 flight hours or more). That was inbuilt inside the fin w/o the access panel and it was glued very hard there. Today, I have an access panel and there are two power units now: one broken which is impossible to remove out and one operational one. .. .. . Cheers, Raimo Toivio ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:03 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates I love "Jim's Corollary"...and am glad to know from Bob that the bonding in of the covers is reversible. For myself, I'm content w/ having installed the nutplates, irrespective of what the manual directs. The manual is silent on strength and stiffness issues related to the door sill...and I was not happy w/ their flexibility. To stiffen up the sills, I followed John Lawton's lead by laying up a 3 layer BID quarter round beneath them which forms part of the raceways (port for electric power, stbd for pneumatics and antennas). Sills are now stiff as...well, let's just say very stiff. Fred On Sep 14, 2011, at 6:37 AM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly > break, it will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut > plates and screw them on, you will never need to remove them. This > is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily > accessible will not break." > > Jim Puglise > > > > I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech > coverplates. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:17 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Mech Coverplates I love "Jim's Corollary"...and am glad to know from Bob that the bonding in of the covers is reversible. For myself, I'm content w/ having installed the nutplates, irrespective of what the manual directs. The manual is silent on strength and stiffness issues related to the door sill...and I was not happy w/ their flexibility. To stiffen up the sills, I followed John Lawton's lead by laying up a 3 layer BID quarter round beneath them which forms part of the raceways (port for electric power, stbd for pneumatics and antennas). Sills are now stiff as...well, let's just say very stiff. Fred On Sep 14, 2011, at 6:37 AM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > You need to keep our friend Murphy in mind. "If it can't possibly > break, it will." On the other hand, if you put in a couple of nut > plates and screw them on, you will never need to remove them. This > is the second corollary to Murphy's Law. "Any part that is easily > accessible will not break." > > Jim Puglise > > > > I am of two minds whether to screw or bond on my door mech > coverplates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.