Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 09/28/11


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:51 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (Tim Ward)
     2. 01:20 AM - Eyeball Vents (Tony Renshaw)
     3. 01:26 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (G-IANI)
     4. 03:16 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (Tim Ward)
     5. 03:23 AM - Re: Eyeball Vents (Tim Ward)
     6. 03:48 AM - Re: Eyeball Vents (Tony Renshaw)
     7. 04:36 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (zwakie)
     8. 05:12 AM - Re: Eyeball Vents (Pete Lawless)
     9. 06:49 AM - Re: Eyeball Vents (Europa)
    10. 11:15 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (zwakie)
    11. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (Raimo Toivio)
    12. 01:28 PM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (zwakie)
    13. 01:29 PM - Oil Cooler move to below the Spinner (Tim Ward)
    14. 03:11 PM - Re: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really (Richard Collings)
    15. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (Frans Veldman)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:51:45 AM PST US
    From: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    Hi guys, I did the oil cooler move below the spinner for the Rotax 912s and it has been very successful. I control the amount of oil cooling required in winter by putting aluminum tape over the cooler. Works a treat! Peter Kemper was the original builder to do the modification. Also looks very stylish. Only I can say that! Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 28/09/2011, at 11:28 AM, "Kingsley" <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> wrote: > >> On my Classic Europa with 912UL, I am experiencing too high oil temps for > comfort. > > Marcel, > > Ten years or so ago, there was an article in the Europa News (we don't get > them now) about oil temp problems in Kim Prout's Classic in California. > > Kim and Ivan Shaw moved the oil cooler to just below the spinner after > cutting a hole there to suit. The article reported the mod was hugely > successful following which they flew to Oshkosh and back with no temperature > problems at all despite very hot conditions on the way. > > Cheers > > Kingsley in Oz > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:20:46 AM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
    Subject: Eyeball Vents
    Gidday, I have a fitting in my roof panel that accommodates 2 x 2" gauges, or now I am wondering about incorporating 2 eyeball vents, and incorporating Nigel Charles's roof ventilation mod. The holes are 2" in diameter and there seems to be one vent to suit at Spruce, albeit it is expensive. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/roundvent1.php Has anyone used these high quality eyeball vents and do you have an opinion I could be privy to?? Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:26:25 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    Attached is a picture of Peter Kember's Europa Classic. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:16:05 AM PST US
    From: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    For interest, looking at Peters aircraft I never made a 'mustang snout' type of arrangement when placing the oil cooler below the spinner. I used the same line as the lower cowl and set the cooler back. I will post a picture tomorrow. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 28/09/2011, at 9:23 PM, "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Attached is a picture of Peter Kember's Europa Classic. > > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > > > <03090225L.jpg>


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:23:10 AM PST US
    From: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: Eyeball Vents
    Tony, Being a Qantas 747 Captain just close your eyes and push the credit card submit button and suddenly they are at your door step! Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 28/09/2011, at 9:18 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: > > Gidday, > I have a fitting in my roof panel that accommodates 2 x 2" gauges, or now I am wondering about incorporating 2 eyeball vents, and incorporating Nigel Charles's roof ventilation mod. The holes are 2" in diameter and there seems to be one vent to suit at Spruce, albeit it is expensive. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/roundvent1.php > Has anyone used these high quality eyeball vents and do you have an opinion I could be privy to?? > > Reg > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:48:12 AM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Eyeball Vents
    I have a trigger credit card finger. Trust me R TR On 28/09/2011, at 8:19 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > Tony, > Being a Qantas 747 Captain just close your eyes and push the credit card submit button and suddenly they are at your door step! > > Cheers, > > Tim > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > > On 28/09/2011, at 9:18 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Gidday, >> I have a fitting in my roof panel that accommodates 2 x 2" gauges, or now I am wondering about incorporating 2 eyeball vents, and incorporating Nigel Charles's roof ventilation mod. The holes are 2" in diameter and there seems to be one vent to suit at Spruce, albeit it is expensive. >> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/roundvent1.php >> Has anyone used these high quality eyeball vents and do you have an opinion I could be privy to?? >> >> Reg >> Tony Renshaw >> Sydney Aussie >> >> >> >> > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 04:36:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
    Interesting location for the oil rad! I would not have expected the physical area inside the cowl underneath the prop to be large enough to house the oil rad. At first glance that seems to be a perfect location for it, also providing an easy routing of the oil hoses. I will keep this in mind as a 2nd option if my current approach doesn't work out. Tim: thanks in advance for posting pictures, I would love to see how you arranged this inside the cowl. Can anyone please also provide answers to my original questions regarding rubber flanges, so that I can move forward with my current approach? Much appreciated! -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353399#353399


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:12:31 AM PST US
    From: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
    Subject: Eyeball Vents
    Tony I bought a set of the Spruce eyeball vents which I did not use. They are very well made and are currently sitting on the shelf in my garage. You are most welcome to them could I mail them to your hotel in London to collect next time you are in town? Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Sent: 28 September 2011 11:45 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Eyeball Vents I have a trigger credit card finger. Trust me R TR On 28/09/2011, at 8:19 PM, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > Tony, > Being a Qantas 747 Captain just close your eyes and push the credit card submit button and suddenly they are at your door step! > > Cheers, > > Tim > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > > On 28/09/2011, at 9:18 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: > <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >> >> Gidday, >> I have a fitting in my roof panel that accommodates 2 x 2" gauges, or now I am wondering about incorporating 2 eyeball vents, and incorporating Nigel Charles's roof ventilation mod. The holes are 2" in diameter and there seems to be one vent to suit at Spruce, albeit it is expensive. >> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/roundvent1.php >> Has anyone used these high quality eyeball vents and do you have an opinion I could be privy to?? >> >> Reg >> Tony Renshaw >> Sydney Aussie >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:49:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Eyeball Vents
    From: Europa <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
    Tony http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=41983 Can't really remember if these are the ACS ones or not - I think they were. Anyway they work very well according to the two guys who fly G-GIDY Regards Paul On 28/9/11 09:18, "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: > > Gidday, > I have a fitting in my roof panel that accommodates 2 x 2" gauges, or now I am > wondering about incorporating 2 eyeball vents, and incorporating Nigel > Charles's roof ventilation mod. The holes are 2" in diameter and there seems > to be one vent to suit at Spruce, albeit it is expensive. > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/roundvent1.php > Has anyone used these high quality eyeball vents and do you have an opinion I > could be privy to?? > > Reg > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:15:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
    Reading more about oil cooling I came across a thread mentioning a Laminova/Mocal oil to water heat exchanger. Anyone has one of those installed? If so, would you please care to share your experiences in respect to oil and coolant temps at high and low OAT? How do I determine which version to use in case I wish to get rid of the oil-cooler altogether? -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353444#353444


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:34:49 PM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    Hi Marcel This is an old topic and I have repeated these words many time: I have had a Laminova since 2007 and +250 flight hours and I am completely happy w it. I am not sure about the type /size I think it is the middle size (look at an attachment). If I remember correct, during those days they had only one size or so. It works well during all OAT conditions between -23C ... +32C which I have experienced so far. When cold, the oil temp follows the water temp but a bit below and when hot, it follows the water temp but a bit over. Always between the limits. When very hot, I prefer moderate climbing speed (around 500 f/min and 100 knots) and equal power settings to keep temps well below their limits. During a full power cruise I have never temp problems at all. When very cold (= -10C or colder), I tape off let us say 50% or more about the air-intake to the water cooler. Please notice I have also a water thermostat to reach minimum temps more quick and to keep them well over the minimums also during long and speedy (+150 knots) iddle descendings (which I really love). Also, I assume when only a water-cooler and no oil-cooler behind it, it is better for airstreams also and for water-cooling ability. I do not know how it works in Classic with two water radiators? Maybe you try and let us know! Hope this helps. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi -----Alkuper=E4inen viesti----- From: zwakie Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:11 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic <mz@cariama.nl> Reading more about oil cooling I came across a thread mentioning a Laminova/Mocal oil to water heat exchanger. Anyone has one of those installed? If so, would you please care to share your experiences in respect to oil and coolant temps at high and low OAT? How do I determine which version to use in case I wish to get rid of the oil-cooler altogether? -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353444#353444 browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin.


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:28:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    From: "zwakie" <mz@cariama.nl>
    Thanks Raimo for your elaborate reply to my question and the pictures you sent along. Apologies for not having used the search-function. Finding out about the oil-water exchanger along with your findings made me think that using an oil-water exchanger might be the best way to resolve my oil temp issue. Considering coolant and CHT temps always are 90-100 Celcius (regardless of OAT), this approach might bring all temps to the low end of the curve, but I guess if that happens the temps can easily pushed up into the green zone easily by blanking of part of the water rads or by installing a thermostat in the water circuit... -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353457#353457


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:29:43 PM PST US
    From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Oil Cooler move to below the Spinner
    Hi Marcel, Pictures, hopefully, of the Oil cooler move to below the spinner without the snout added. Remember my cooler was the original cooler for the Monowheel Kit # 292. It is smaller then the XS model cooler. Originally it was piggy backed behind the port water radiator for the Rotax 912 80HP however when the Rotax 912S came to the market it produced more heat requiring a different cooling setup. Then came the XS model with bigger cowlings to allow more leg room for the US market and a complete redesign of the cooling system under the engine. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward, 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch 8052 New Zealand Ph; 03 3515166 Mob; 0210640221 email; ward.t@xtra.co.nz


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:11:58 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Collings" <rcollings@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really
    I think we might be neck and neck on build completion or 90% done with 90% to do! There is a std Europa Club mod for a strobe on the top of the tailplane No SM 10401 that should do it.I am being asked for an LAA mod for fuel line piping which I have completed in 5/16 aluminium tube with AN fittings and recited the fuel valve on the floor of the fuselage with an extension control shaft coming up through the centre section of the cockpit module just behind the brake parking valve, has anyone got an existing mod for this? Also I am going to have to buy a radio soon anyone have any thoughts no what to go for and how soon will 8.33 separation become mandatory? I still have loads to do. Trigear Rotax 912ul G-CGZV Richard Collings ----- Original Message ----- From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:19 PM Subject: Europa-List: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really > > The LAA are asking me to put a new mod form in for installing Airworld > twin head wing tip strobes, surely this has already been done several > times? > > Also someone must have installed a 'Think Automotive' oil thermostat > already, or maybe I should just change it for the Skydrive one. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Build nearing completion > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353354#353354 > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:00:55 PM PST US
    From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
    Subject: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic
    On 09/28/2011 08:11 PM, zwakie wrote: > Reading more about oil cooling I came across a thread mentioning a > Laminova/Mocal oil to water heat exchanger. > > Anyone has one of those installed? Yes, I have one as my primary oil cooler. I'm perfectly happy with it. It eliminates the need for a thermostat, as the oil warms up quickly by the coolant. Oil temp follows the coolant temp closely. In my case, I can regulate the coolant temp perfectly with my servo controlled cowl flap. I have some good news for you: I have a spare mocal left over. I started with a small one but it was too small for my 914, so I replaced it with a bigger one. The small one should work very well for your engine. You are free to try it and/or make an offer. You only need to order the oil connectors for it as I re-used them for my new Laminova. I can point you to some silicone hose suppliers as well so you can plumb it in. > If so, would you please care to > share your experiences in respect to oil and coolant temps at high > and low OAT? It doesn't really matter in my case as I can get exactly the temperature I wish regardless of OAT, speed, altitude or power setting. Usually, the oil temp will become a bit (say 10C) higher than the coolant temp, but as I like to keep my coolant at the hot side (for economy/performance reasons, about 110C) I had the oil temp creeping up to 120C and found this just a bit too much. So I installed a very tiny oil/air cooler in series with the Laminova and that solved the problem. > How do I determine which version to use in case I wish to get rid of > the oil-cooler altogether? The size of my spare Mocal would be perfect for you. Frans




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