---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/30/11: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:46 AM - Re: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really (Europa) 2. 12:59 AM - Re: Re: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really (Europa) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (zwakie) 4. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (Frans Veldman) 5. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (G-IANI) 6. 10:41 AM - FW: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (G-IANI) 7. 12:15 PM - Entry to the UK (tennant) 8. 12:25 PM - Re: Entry to the UK (Alan Burrill) 9. 12:52 PM - wheel to underside clearance not 2 but 5cm & wide tyre (graeme bird) 10. 01:06 PM - Re: Entry to the UK (tennant) 11. 01:17 PM - Re: Entry to the UK (houlihan) 12. 01:24 PM - Re: Entry to the UK (tennant) 13. 01:40 PM - Re: Entry to the UK (Alan Burrill) 14. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Entry to the UK (Alan Burrill) 15. 08:15 PM - Accident at Rough River (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 16. 08:18 PM - Fw: Officials: Small plane crashes into inn in Ky. - The Denver Post (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 17. 08:52 PM - Re: wheel to underside clearance not 2 but 5cm & wide tyre (keith hickling) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really From: Europa Richard I'm not sure which bit of the fuel mod you are referring to specifically. There are several europas around with aluminium fuel lines and AN fittings including G-GIDY. Our fuel mod reference is: EUROPA XS PFA 247-13467 Mod 11064 (fuel system) It has an andair fuel valve but not one with an extension shaft. It is also a 914 engine so piped for 2 electric fuel pumps. Regards Paul On 28/9/11 23:07, "Richard Collings" wrote: > > I think we might be neck and neck on build completion or 90% done with 90% > to do! There is a std Europa Club mod for a strobe on the top of the > tailplane No SM 10401 that should do it.I am being asked for an LAA mod for > fuel line piping which I have completed in 5/16 aluminium tube with AN > fittings and recited the fuel valve on the floor of the fuselage with an > extension control shaft coming up through the centre section of the cockpit > module just behind the brake parking valve, has anyone got an existing mod > for this? Also I am going to have to buy a radio soon anyone have any > thoughts no what to go for and how soon will 8.33 separation become > mandatory? > I still have loads to do. > Trigear Rotax 912ul G-CGZV > Richard Collings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "graeme bird" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:19 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really > > >> >> The LAA are asking me to put a new mod form in for installing Airworld >> twin head wing tip strobes, surely this has already been done several >> times? >> >> Also someone must have installed a 'Think Automotive' oil thermostat >> already, or maybe I should just change it for the Skydrive one. >> >> -------- >> Graeme Bird >> G-UMPY >> Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP >> Build nearing completion >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353354#353354 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Need an LAA mod for wing tip strobe - really From: Europa Graham We fitted whelan wing tip nav/stobes driven by an Airworld strobe unit into XS wings on G-GIDY. Unfortunately I don't have the paperwork for the mods but it is PFA approved. Another of our group - Hugh Carmichael has the PFA paperwork and I'm sure would be able to quote you the relevant approval number. Essentaially the mod involved running nav and stobe wires through the wing ribs with BID reinforcement of the ribs. A splash molding of the whelan unit base glassed to the wingtip such that the unit lay flush with the wingtip skin. BID reinforcement of the wing tip. Wiring brought out through the root rib to 5 pin connectors. The Airworld unit is mounted on the rear of the baggage bay bulkhead and powered through a suitable fuse ands 3 position switch(off/stobes/nav & stobe). Regards Paul On 29/9/11 19:24, "graeme bird" wrote: > > Richard, I tried that - quoting the stobe, mod but it was rejected, too > different > > Re the radio I have a Filsner 833 in my C42 and now Europa and have been very > pleased with in the C42, I like the dual listen and intercom. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Build nearing completion > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353537#353537 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic From: "zwakie" frans(at)privatepilots.nl wrote: > Yes, you missed that that was a temporary setup to keep us flying. I indeed missed that. Thanks for the explanation of your changes since. Scouring the web for more information and reading your replies and those of others convinced me that having an oil-water heat exchanger is a very good and 'elegant' way to control fluid temps, especially if are able to optimize airmass and -flow through the cowling. I have therefore decided to abandon the approach that I already started, and replace my oil rad with an oil-water heat exchanger instead. At a later stage I will evaluate the need for airflow-optimization. This brings me to preparing for this change: What capacity exchanger do I need? Could not find anything on the web that helps me make an educated assessment. --- Frans: I would like to test the one you have lying around. If it gives me sufficient cooling on the oil I'll gladly buy it from you. If not, I won't buy yours and go for a larger capacity one. Is that OK with you? What type of hoses? Since this modification requires purging both coolant and oil, I will take the opportunity to replace all coolant hoses (FYI: Skydrive carburetter heater system is installed on my engine). OIL hoses: it's my understanding silicone is best: --- Can silicone oil hose be routed fairly easy by 'bending' them, or will I need to order them pre-shaped to fit my plan? --- Frans (and all): can you please point me to silicone hose suppliers? COOLANT hoses: --- I'm inclined to stick with the hoses recommended by Europa, unless others have great experience with alternatives. All suggestions are appreciated! --- Where can I buy these? Thanks all for having me brought this far, hopefully you are not getting bored with my bombardment of questions and are still willing to bring me one step further [Wink] Marcel --- Finally, anyone care to comment on these thoughts: > I can see only one downside of having a heat exchanger: by integrating the two cooling circuits, in the scenario of a failing hose anywhere in the combined cooling systems, engine temps would increase much faster as opposed to having two separate cooling cooling circuits. > Acting upon such a failure would be much more time-critical, as I see it you only have a single option if such happens: shut the engine immediately, do a forced landing and hope that you identified the issue quick enough to save your engine. -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353619#353619 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:16 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic On 09/30/2011 12:51 PM, zwakie wrote: > What capacity exchanger do I need? The smallest one should suffice. Some other people have been flying it with a 912S. It is almost ok for a 914 but a little too marginal, mainly due to the extra cooling demand of the turbo oil lines. > Could not find anything on the web that helps me make an educated assessment. There are several graphs on the sites which sell the Laminova. The Rotax flows 60 Liter coolant per minute, oil is (if I remember correctly for the 912) about 10 Liters per minute. Fill in the appropriate input temperatures and you will get the oil output temperature. > --- Frans: I would like to test the one you have lying around. If it gives me sufficient cooling on the oil I'll gladly buy it from you. If not, I won't buy yours and go for a larger capacity one. Is that OK with you? That's ok. You only need to buy the oil connectors for it. And that brings up the following point: > OIL hoses: it's my understanding silicone is best: No, not for oil. Oil dissolves silicone. I used this: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection1.asp?Product=3490 An alternative is: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection1.asp?Product=3480 These hoses are lightweight, extremely reliable, will not abrade, are able to cope with high temperatures, and resistant to all kind of chemicals. And yes, these hoses are very flexible and can be routed exactly as you wish. Note: You will NEED the special hoses connectors for it. You can not use barbed fittings with hose clamps. It will cost you some money but hey it is an airplane and your life depends on it. > --- Frans (and all): can you please point me to silicone hose suppliers? www.sfsperformance.co.uk They can make almost anything special, but they are hard to do business with,they need constant chasing. Expect to spend a dozen emails and phone calls before they deliver what you asked (and payed) for. > COOLANT hoses: > --- I'm inclined to stick with the hoses recommended by Europa, unless others have great experience with alternatives. All suggestions are appreciated! The hoses from Europa are nothing special, just regular rubber hoses. Silicone hoses are better and do not age. Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:56 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic Europa are now offering the hoses developed by Stefan Ingemarsson SE-XRX Contact Stefan for details E-Mail : ingemarsson.s@telia.com Tel/Fax : +46 (0)511 80160, Mobile : +46 (0)70 3780160 To give you an idea of costs Cost in Euros at 2007 prices Hose Description A/C Type No /Cost Classic XS Straight 1Meter fore engine(to cut) C/XS 2 40 80 80 Bend, fore cylinder three top. C/XS 1 30 30 30 Ex. bottle to radiator XS 1 42 0 42 Pump to radiator XS 1 44 0 44 Portside to radiator C 1 60 60 0 Starboard to Radiator C 1 51 51 0 Between radiators C 1 19 19 0 Self compensating clamps, engine C/XS 16 2.5 40 40 Delivery Europe 1-5Kg 1 35 35 35 315 271 IMG_0034a.jpg Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:41 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic Europa are now offering the hoses developed by- Stefan Ingemarsson-SE-XRX See picture attached. Contact Stefan for details E-Mail : ingemarsson.s@telia.com Tel/Fax : +46 (0)511 80160, Mobile : +46 (0)70 3780160 To give you an idea of costs Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:39 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Entry to the UK From: "tennant" HELP ! ! I was hoping to fly to the UK this weekend but I cannot find the required info & mail address to send my "Application" to. Does anyone have an idea where I can find it. It used to be called "Airworthiness notice 52" but the CAA site is such a disaster I can't find it again. Bl...y Burocrats are going to mess up my weekend again. Barry tennant -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353646#353646 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Entry to the UK From: Alan Burrill Does this help? http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=720&pagetype=90&pageid=3932 Alan #0303 On 30 Sep 2011, at 20:12, tennant wrote: > > HELP ! ! > I was hoping to fly to the UK this weekend but I cannot find the required info & mail address to send my "Application" to. > > Does anyone have an idea where I can find it. > > It used to be called "Airworthiness notice 52" but the CAA site is such a disaster I can't find it again. > > Bl...y Burocrats are going to mess up my weekend again. > > Barry tennant > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353646#353646 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:41 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: wheel to underside clearance not 2 but 5cm & wide tyre From: "graeme bird" The post build check list says the clearance between the top of the mono wheel and the underside of the fuselage should be about 2cm, well mine is 5cm, should I be worried? The frame seems to overlocked. Also, I have the original tyre 8 x 6 4 ply carlise truf glide. I am keen to have the wides possible but did i read somewhere that they should be changed. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353650#353650 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:49 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Entry to the UK From: "tennant" Thanks Alan. Unfortunately the link for homebuilt aircraft leads to a list of deleted & replaced orders which indicate that notice 52 is incorporated in CAP 747 but I cannot find any mention of a homebuilt concession in CAP 747. Perhaps they just forgot us ! ! However I don't like the idea of having to trailer the plane over the channel from Lydd if it really is still valid. Any ideas are welcome Barry -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353655#353655 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Entry to the UK From: houlihan I guess the last few lines of the document refereed to by Alan Burrill is all you should need to know , possibly :<) quote is" Homebuilt Aircraft If your aircraft is homebuilt, you do not need to apply to us for an Exemption. Please see Airworthiness Notice 52for more information." The link points to some list of cancelled or moved documents but the first sentence seems pretty definitive to me. Tim On 30 September 2011 20:23, Alan Burrill wrote: > > Does this help? > > http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=720&pagetype=90&pageid=3932 > > Alan > #0303 > > > On 30 Sep 2011, at 20:12, tennant wrote: > > barrington.tennant@gmail.com> > > > > HELP ! ! > > I was hoping to fly to the UK this weekend but I cannot find the required > info & mail address to send my "Application" to. > > > > Does anyone have an idea where I can find it. > > > > It used to be called "Airworthiness notice 52" but the CAA site is such a > disaster I can't find it again. > > > > Bl...y Burocrats are going to mess up my weekend again. > > > > Barry tennant > > > > -------- > > Barry Tennant > > D-EHBT > > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353646#353646 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:57 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Entry to the UK From: "tennant" WOPPEE!! I found it - page 441 - 444 of CAP 747. The LAA really needs to take this up with the CAA befor other states start a tit for tat which will put pay to your European jaunts. Thanks for your efforts Alan. I hope that I get my "automatic reply" by the morning. Last time it did not come and I had to cancel. Barry -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353658#353658 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:09 PM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Entry to the UK The Document is here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP747.pdf An the bit you need is in Appendix 1 and is referenced as Section 2, Part 4, GC No. 6 Page 1 and onwards. It includes the form and the email address to send the details required. May be a bit late for this weekend now as I don't think they will respond over a weekend. Alan On 30 Sep 2011, at 21:14, houlihan wrote: > I guess the last few lines of the document refereed to by Alan Burrill is all you should need to know , possibly :<) > > quote is" > Homebuilt Aircraft > > If your aircraft is homebuilt, you do not need to apply to us for an Exemption. Please see Airworthiness Notice 52 for more information." > > The link points to some list of cancelled or moved documents but the first sentence seems pretty definitive to me. > > Tim > > > > On 30 September 2011 20:23, Alan Burrill wrote: > > Does this help? > > http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=720&pagetype=90&pageid=393 2 > > Alan > #0303 > > > On 30 Sep 2011, at 20:12, tennant wrote: > > > > > HELP ! ! > > I was hoping to fly to the UK this weekend but I cannot find the required info & mail address to send my "Application" to. > > > > Does anyone have an idea where I can find it. > > > > It used to be called "Airworthiness notice 52" but the CAA site is such a disaster I can't find it again. > > > > Bl...y Burocrats are going to mess up my weekend again. > > > > Barry tennant > > > > -------- > > Barry Tennant > > D-EHBT > > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353646#353646 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Entry to the UK From: Alan Burrill Ah my response has just gone and I now see you have found it must have crossed in the ether! Good luck trying - CAA Don't normal work over the weekend but worth a try. Alan On 30 Sep 2011, at 21:22, tennant wrote: > > WOPPEE!! > > I found it - page 441 - 444 of CAP 747. > > The LAA really needs to take this up with the CAA befor other states start a tit for tat which will put pay to your European jaunts. > > Thanks for your efforts Alan. > > I hope that I get my "automatic reply" by the morning. Last time it did not come and I had to cancel. > > Barry > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353658#353658 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:36 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Europa-List: Accident at Rough River There was a news release earlier this evening that a small airplane had cra shed into a hotel near Rough River=C2-State Park.=C2- They did not spec ify aircraft type, but=C2-I believe th is was the=C2-Long Ez weekend. =C2- We looked up the location of the hotel that was hit and it is just a cross the road from the landing strip.=C2- It is about at the point you w ould turn downwind to base for RR.=C2- Apparently the pilot was killed bu t there were no injuries on the ground. Jim Puglise A283=C2-=C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:12 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Officials: Small plane crashes into inn in Ky. - The Denver Post Link from the Denver Post Jim Puglise A283 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Todd Puglise" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:21:08 PM Subject: Officials: Small plane crashes into inn in Ky. - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_19012975#.ToZAlKgAIkc.mailto ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:32 PM PST US From: keith hickling Subject: RE: Europa-List: wheel to underside clearance not 2 but 5cm & wide tyre Hi Graeme, I also had 5 cm between the top of the tyre and bottom of fuselage initially, and John Wheeler said that was fine. The suspension settles a bit with use and loading. I also have the original wide tyre, and it rubs a bit on the brake calliper, but is just OK. Keith Hickling, New Zealand. "The post build check list says the clearance between the top of the mono wheel and the underside of the fuselage should be about 2cm, well mine is 5cm, should I be worried? Also, I have the original tyre 8 x 6 4 ply carlise truf glide. I am keen to have the wides possible but did i read somewhere that they should be changed." -------- Graeme Bird ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.