---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/05/11: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Re: Re: Entry to the UK (Alan Burrill) 2. 03:27 AM - Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic (zwakie) 3. 03:52 AM - Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle (Justin Kennedy) 4. 09:08 AM - Trailer (Karen Ward) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Bungee (Bud Yerly) 6. 11:18 AM - Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle (Bud Yerly) 7. 12:45 PM - Re: Can we borrow your tank? (Bud Yerly) 8. 02:34 PM - Fly in at Greenville Tn GCY. October 15 (Bud Yerly) 9. 02:48 PM - Tyres (David Joyce) 10. 03:00 PM - Re: Can we borrow your tank? (William Daniell) 11. 03:04 PM - Re: Tyres (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Entry to the UK From: Alan Burrill Glad you made it. Alan Sent from my iPod On 4 Oct 2011, at 09:45, "tennant" wrote: > > Thanks for your support Alan, > > The system is such that there is an automatic reply which you have to carry with you. It was no problem and I had a superb flight to Cardiff direct from EDLM. Nobody wanted to see it, or even my passport for that matter! > > On the way back yesterday we met up with Dave Bosomworth in the air over Goodwood as he had heared us on Solent Radar frequency. > > Best regards > > Barry > > -------- > Barry Tennant > D-EHBT > At EDLM - Germany > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353987#353987 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:00 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sealing the water and oil coolers in a Classic From: "zwakie" Thanks Frans for the explanation, good food for thought! Clearly I need to do more thinking about this ;) -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354075#354075 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:15 AM PST US From: Justin Kennedy Subject: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle My daughter ;-) says that the little tube from carburettor to plenum chambe r has disconnected on one side. Justin G-ZTED Classic Monowheel. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:07 AM PST US From: Karen Ward Subject: Europa-List: Trailer Does anyone have, or know of a second-hand Tri-gear trailer for sale? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:13 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bungee Bryan, Sorry that Europa did not forward your request for information to me. 10mm or 3/8 inch is for the mono undercarriage. 12mm or 1/2 inch is for the trigear shock absorber. Please use and ask for the 10mm as that is what you originally had and I am sure that your gap will accommodate that with a bit of a squeeze. I cannot understand the delay except perhaps your request fell through the crack. My apologies. Another note: If you need to replace the bungee now is the time to completely look at the gear mechanism for wear and tear and update your other rubber components. Just a thought. Regards, Bud Yerly Europa Tech Support Custom Flight Creations, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Allsop To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: Europa-List: Bungee Having waited for two weeks for Europa to supply me with replacement bungee (shock) cord for the monowheel undercarriage, they have supplied a length of 12mm diameter chord. The bungee I took out was 10mm, and that was a squeeze. Anyone who has tried it knows that the bungee has to fit through two narrow gaps, and fitting it is difficult. Clearly 10 mm bungee is easily available on line, but before I go ahead, can anyone confirm that 10 mm is the correct size? I am not convinced that the staff at Europa would know the answer. My regards to those who may think that I no longer exist. Bryan Allsop http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:27 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle Many things to check. Carbs: Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak. Especially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power setting. Check carb balance. Engine Electrics: First check ignition A and B separate. Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also) Pull plugs and look for differences. Fuel : Check carb float bowls for dirt. Check fuel pressure regulator for 914 Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure. Exhaust: Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot, looseness or failures. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Raimo Toivio To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 3:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle All I have hope-so a nice riddle for you. Maybe all the answers are useful =93 let=C2=B4s collect them all: *** Yesterday I took off from a very remote /small /windy (90 degrees 12 knots and gusting MUCH) grass strip. Soon until well over the ground at altitude +500 feet with full power and 2nd fuel pump still on and gears up I felt suddenly let us say medium or more shake and vibration. My immediate reaction was to go around and land immediately but abandoned because wind was so furious and I felt I cannot do that (a succesful landing). I decided to try to fly to the next possible sensible airfield EFHV which was 10 minutes apart. Those minutes were long: I put my prob (Airmaster CS) to manual and drived it from fine to coarse, tried all the power settings and also a 2nd fuel filter. Finally I noticed that when prop was in a climb mode (in my case 5400 rpm /Rotax 912S) and MAP around 20 inches I got quite a comfortable flying mode and I headed straight home. My airspeed was w that selection about 110 knots but because of a strong headwind GS was only about 70 knots (wanted to be clearly over the ground at 3000 ft because it was well over sunset and totally dark, yesterday we got sunset around 1600 Zulutime and time was well over 1630 when flying). So, I pushed home one looooong hour. All the aerodynamics were well. I was a bit worried my engine will separate or so. When trying to push more pwr it was more vibra and when trying to pull less pwr same. I Followed a main highway and decided to land there if feeling so. Cars there with lights are almost like a lighted runway... Finally landing to the EFTP flawlesly. *** Today we had a FHGP (Family Hangar Grill Party). I tried to check my plane as well as I can. I found something. Very small evidence but something anyway. I tried to fix it and had a test run. I elected to go to fly =93 hey I am a test pilot who else =93 and She was better than ever! I managed to do 2 touches and goes when C172 did one with same runway. 140 knots during downwind makes me always happy. *** So =93 dear Ladies and Gentlemen =93 what was wrong? It would be nice and very life-useful to hear your opinions or guesses what was wrong. *** The Rules: one single guess per person, please. The Prize: The Best Guess will get a Very Special Xmas Present from Finland! *** I will let you know a solution after a week =93 be patient. Have a nice weekend and Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 258,3 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:16 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? Will, Sorry it has taken too long. Much to do and too little time. I have had an email of mine cut and pasted by the editor into the Europa flier. This is a hot issue and I have been looking for my more detailed instructions but can't find it right now since my house flooded. I have attached two adobe files with some incomplete info on removal and installation (read that as shorter than my normal tome). Look at the attached pdf files for a quick and dirty explanation. Tools you'll most probably like to have. A fine tooth hand saw, Dremel type rotary tool and a very thin diamond blade. Hack saw (metal cutting saw) blades for hand use. Hole saw of 2 inches diameter or so. Fein saw (an electric or air saw with a long thin blade) patience, precision and about 24 hours of pure enjoyment. Regards Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: William Daniell To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? Bud Can you give an overview of the tank replacement surgery. My tank has been sitting around empty during my (glacial-paced) build and has been glassed in per the manual since 2008 and not per your post. I am wondering whether it would be wise to bite the bullet and change the tank before putting the top on. What do you suggest? Yours Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 25 September, 2011 10:45 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? To all fuel tank concerns Europa has 25 tanks on order, however, the mold was damaged / discarded by the manufacturer. The new tank, made by Roger and John that I have from 2009, holds a bit more fuel (I have 20 gallons useable in my trigear filled to the brim) and has reinforcements in addition to the normal support tabs. I am not privy to the new tank manufacturers mold to see that it is exactly the same. Karen expects delivery in a couple weeks, but it will have to undergo QC first. I am watching and waiting for a tank also for a new customer. For those attempting to build a fiberglass composite tank using the old tank as a mold, I believe the molding in place to be more time consuming than just pulling the old tank and replacing it with the new tank and properly supporting it. Fiberglass tanks, as pointed out by Graham, have problems with auto fuel. No fiberglass tank (epoxy, vinylester, or polyester) holds up with Auto Fuel with Ethanol. The marine industry coats the inside of fiberglass tanks with specialized coatings to protect the fiberglass from auto fuel additives and ethanol. It appears AV Gas is safe with all fiberglass tanks. However, the AV Gas formula is under review by the FAA for changes, so no guarantees. Repairs to the current tank is difficult. Epoxy and glass stick very well to the PTFE tank material. Jeff Roberts has successfully repaired his tank, but it depends where your crack is. I have repaired the top of the tank with glass and pro seal. Note, that proseal softens with time when exposed to ethanol, but has not failed so far. The problem with glass repairs to the tank, in my opinion, is that the bond has less peel strength than ideal and under flexing and pressure will eventually fail. I believe, and have put my money where my mouth is, that the solution to the tank cracking is the support structure used for the tank. For those of you who haven't seen my previous posts, I have attached one of my drawings to show what I mean. The front of the tank is totally unsupported from the area above the spars (the ledge) to the bottom rear of the tank. Tank flexing of the older and thinner tank will force the tank to eventually crack at the areas that are glassed hard and not allowed to move. Whether the tank gets brittle with age, from the fiberglass interface, gets brittle with being left empty during long repairs, or what, I really don't care, as all poly tanks will flex, and going from empty to full will cause a flex of a tank and eventually, if forced back and forth, will fail. Metal cracks also unless properly supported, has condensation problems , and it is expensive for odd shaped tanks to build, fiberglass has its fuel compatibility problems, molding issues, etc., and PTFE or poly tanks have their long term problems unless properly supported. What has my company done? Defined how to support the tank. We do not glass the tank directly to the cockpit module structure per the instruction manual. We put release plastic between the required build manual supports and tank to prevent the required supports from sticking permanently and creating a stress riser. We use glass tabs to secure it at the top, for fore/aft and side to side movement. Polyurethane foam is used to secure the tank from shifting, and we carefully build lower tank supports. (On a new build it means fitting the module a couple more times to fit an expand cell pad laid along the bottom of the tank perimeter covered with 2 mil plastic to define where the tank sits and requires support. The expand cell is then sanded to final shape and glassed over making a very good support.) The tank also sits on a cork support for padding (kind of overkill) to prevent wear, but plastic works OK also. This means the tank is supported vertically and horizontally by the saddle, the bottom, the front ledge, and foam wedged with urethane foam to prevent movement fore, aft , up , or down. All weight is carried by a combination of the floor and the bulkheads. Existing tanks have added non expanding polyurethane foam sprayed under the tank to support the bottom, but this is not ideal as I prefer a longeron and ribs be glassed to the floor for the tunnel area and across the front of the tank for vertical support. This adds support for the tank bottom, back and sides as opposed to the previous supports which hung the tank solely off the bulkheads... Other bandaids: We have a plastic welder and have tried it recently on PTFE tanks used in commercial lawn equipment (which are poorly supported fuel tanks and prone to cracking with age) and have had success so far. Not an exact science but we have also done an auto radiator, and a auto overflow coolant tank to see what the long term effects are. We are concerned that the heat stress near the weld may be brittle and fail, so time will tell. Pulling the tank and welding is not cost effective as one may as well drop in another tank. In the mean time, I am waiting for a new tank to drop in as that is the easiest of all solutions, as the tank supports can be put in quite easily through the hole in the top of the module. This I believe will solve the problems of stress risers and tank failures. Anyone can replace a tank in less than a week. Regards, Bud http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:40 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Europa-List: Fly in at Greenville Tn GCY. October 15 The colors of the leaves are changing and Greenville TN Airport KGCY is having a fly-in / open house. Our friend Jerry Hope is stationed there and all Europa Owners are invited to fly, drive or walk on in. Troy is thinking of going as am I as I have a plane to deliver, weather and client permitting. Jerry says the times are 0900 to 1400 and there are venders for lunch. Just another great way to turn fuel into fun. Regards, Bud Yerly ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:33 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tyres From: David Joyce Can anyone give me details of best place to get new gyres for my tri gear please in the uk? Rgds David Sent from the iPad of David Joyce www.eastmidsspas.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:11 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? Bud Thanks.always love the asides in your mails. Will PS sorry to hear flooded - it seems to have been a bad 6 months form the elements for you. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 05 October, 2011 14:40 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? Will, Sorry it has taken too long. Much to do and too little time. I have had an email of mine cut and pasted by the editor into the Europa flier. This is a hot issue and I have been looking for my more detailed instructions but can't find it right now since my house flooded. I have attached two adobe files with some incomplete info on removal and installation (read that as shorter than my normal tome). Look at the attached pdf files for a quick and dirty explanation. Tools you'll most probably like to have. A fine tooth hand saw, Dremel type rotary tool and a very thin diamond blade. Hack saw (metal cutting saw) blades for hand use. Hole saw of 2 inches diameter or so. Fein saw (an electric or air saw with a long thin blade) patience, precision and about 24 hours of pure enjoyment. Regards Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: William Daniell Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? Bud Can you give an overview of the tank replacement surgery. My tank has been sitting around empty during my (glacial-paced) build and has been glassed in per the manual since 2008 and not per your post. I am wondering whether it would be wise to bite the bullet and change the tank before putting the top on. What do you suggest? Yours Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 25 September, 2011 10:45 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Can we borrow your tank? To all fuel tank concerns Europa has 25 tanks on order, however, the mold was damaged / discarded by the manufacturer. The new tank, made by Roger and John that I have from 2009, holds a bit more fuel (I have 20 gallons useable in my trigear filled to the brim) and has reinforcements in addition to the normal support tabs. I am not privy to the new tank manufacturers mold to see that it is exactly the same. Karen expects delivery in a couple weeks, but it will have to undergo QC first. I am watching and waiting for a tank also for a new customer. For those attempting to build a fiberglass composite tank using the old tank as a mold, I believe the molding in place to be more time consuming than just pulling the old tank and replacing it with the new tank and properly supporting it. Fiberglass tanks, as pointed out by Graham, have problems with auto fuel. No fiberglass tank (epoxy, vinylester, or polyester) holds up with Auto Fuel with Ethanol. The marine industry coats the inside of fiberglass tanks with specialized coatings to protect the fiberglass from auto fuel additives and ethanol. It appears AV Gas is safe with all fiberglass tanks. However, the AV Gas formula is under review by the FAA for changes, so no guarantees. Repairs to the current tank is difficult. Epoxy and glass stick very well to the PTFE tank material. Jeff Roberts has successfully repaired his tank, but it depends where your crack is. I have repaired the top of the tank with glass and pro seal. Note, that proseal softens with time when exposed to ethanol, but has not failed so far. The problem with glass repairs to the tank, in my opinion, is that the bond has less peel strength than ideal and under flexing and pressure will eventually fail. I believe, and have put my money where my mouth is, that the solution to the tank cracking is the support structure used for the tank. For those of you who haven't seen my previous posts, I have attached one of my drawings to show what I mean. The front of the tank is totally unsupported from the area above the spars (the ledge) to the bottom rear of the tank. Tank flexing of the older and thinner tank will force the tank to eventually crack at the areas that are glassed hard and not allowed to move. Whether the tank gets brittle with age, from the fiberglass interface, gets brittle with being left empty during long repairs, or what, I really don't care, as all poly tanks will flex, and going from empty to full will cause a flex of a tank and eventually, if forced back and forth, will fail. Metal cracks also unless properly supported, has condensation problems , and it is expensive for odd shaped tanks to build, fiberglass has its fuel compatibility problems, molding issues, etc., and PTFE or poly tanks have their long term problems unless properly supported. What has my company done? Defined how to support the tank. We do not glass the tank directly to the cockpit module structure per the instruction manual. We put release plastic between the required build manual supports and tank to prevent the required supports from sticking permanently and creating a stress riser. We use glass tabs to secure it at the top, for fore/aft and side to side movement. Polyurethane foam is used to secure the tank from shifting, and we carefully build lower tank supports. (On a new build it means fitting the module a couple more times to fit an expand cell pad laid along the bottom of the tank perimeter covered with 2 mil plastic to define where the tank sits and requires support. The expand cell is then sanded to final shape and glassed over making a very good support.) The tank also sits on a cork support for padding (kind of overkill) to prevent wear, but plastic works OK also. This means the tank is supported vertically and horizontally by the saddle, the bottom, the front ledge, and foam wedged with urethane foam to prevent movement fore, aft , up , or down. All weight is carried by a combination of the floor and the bulkheads. Existing tanks have added non expanding polyurethane foam sprayed under the tank to support the bottom, but this is not ideal as I prefer a longeron and ribs be glassed to the floor for the tunnel area and across the front of the tank for vertical support. This adds support for the tank bottom, back and sides as opposed to the previous supports which hung the tank solely off the bulkheads... Other bandaids: We have a plastic welder and have tried it recently on PTFE tanks used in commercial lawn equipment (which are poorly supported fuel tanks and prone to cracking with age) and have had success so far. Not an exact science but we have also done an auto radiator, and a auto overflow coolant tank to see what the long term effects are. We are concerned that the heat stress near the weld may be brittle and fail, so time will tell. Pulling the tank and welding is not cost effective as one may as well drop in another tank. In the mean time, I am waiting for a new tank to drop in as that is the easiest of all solutions, as the tank supports can be put in quite easily through the hole in the top of the module. This I believe will solve the problems of stress risers and tank failures. Anyone can replace a tank in less than a week. Regards, Bud href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:06 PM PST US From: "peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tyres Got ours from Watts - we were very pleased with the quality, price and delivery. 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