Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Drilling hole in fuel filler tube (Tony Renshaw)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube (Frans Veldman)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube (Kevin Klinefelter)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( (Raimo Toivio)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) (Raimo Toivio)
6. 07:27 AM - Re: ballistic Parachute (John Wighton)
7. 07:34 AM - Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) (Raimo Toivio)
8. 07:52 AM - Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) (Ivan Midwing)
9. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( (Frans Veldman)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
11. 12:43 PM - Re: Toe vs Finger Brakes (europapa)
12. 02:39 PM - Re: Tail Wheel (Richard Collings)
13. 03:47 PM - Attaching Fuel Filler Tube to Fuse (Tony Renshaw)
14. 04:37 PM - Re: Attaching Fuel Filler Tube to Fuse (Tim Ward)
15. 05:03 PM - Flap Actuator Tube (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Drilling hole in fuel filler tube |
Giddy,
I am about to drill 1 or 2 holes in the neck of the fuel filler tube, for anti
syphon and vent. If I had a T piece ai suppose I could just drill 1 hole, but
I have seen others with 2, so feel I am safe to follow. I have plastic drill bits
including 3/8", and am wondering about advice in affixing the black grommets
rubber plug variety as sold by Spruce, with the bsyonet metal fitting,
. Anyone done this before who can share any advice???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube |
On 10/18/2011 01:07 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> I am about to drill 1 or 2 holes in the neck of the fuel filler tube, for anti
syphon and vent. If I had a T piece ai suppose I could just drill 1 hole, but
I have seen others with 2, so feel I am safe to follow. I have plastic drill
bits including 3/8", and am wondering about advice in affixing the black grommets
rubber plug variety as sold by Spruce, with the bsyonet metal fitting,
> . Anyone done this before who can share any advice???
Use 2 holes, you need the top of the fuel filler tube as a "plenum". The
fuel vent from the tank not only releases air during filling, but also a
good deal of fuel. You will want the fuel to return to the tank, and the
air to escape.
Also, my mistake was to project the opening of the tube somewhat in the
direction of the fuel cap. So during filling when the tank is almost
full, the tube starts spitting out splashes of fuel which is quite a
nuisance.
For securing the metal tubes I used some Araldite. It is fuel resistant
and appears to hold very well on the fuel filler neck.
Frans
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube |
Tony, I used a step drill and opened the hole just big enough to start
an AN pipe thread fitting, which cut its own threads into the plastic.
Then a filet of redux.
Kevin
On 10/18/11, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Giddy,
> I am about to drill 1 or 2 holes in the neck of the fuel filler tube, for
> anti syphon and vent. If I had a T piece ai suppose I could just drill 1
> hole, but I have seen others with 2, so feel I am safe to follow. I have
> plastic drill bits including 3/8", and am wondering about advice in affixing
> the black grommets rubber plug variety as sold by Spruce, with the bsyonet
> metal fitting,
> . Anyone done this before who can share any advice???
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The |
Winner(
Marcel, Frans and rest of you fine people
My plan is to open and check the engine by
professional during a winter delay.
So far I think the piston # 3 is essential to
check.
Before that I will happily fly about 10 hrs. It
runs so smoothly after replacing the spark plugs
that I will not worry about possible damaged
engine.
Pls notice - the heavy (infact very frightening
and scary) vibration and shaking was only quite
momentous. I found quite soon a MAP & RPM
combination which made sense. During the flight I
tried couple of times if it will go better outside
that combination but immediately came back.
I was not worried my engine so much - that is only
an engine and w/o it a plane is still very well
flyable. Instantly I worried about the engine
fixing, structural things, engine separation and
such things. I was happy I completed that Mod "an
engine mounting frame strenghtening". I knew I
have to make a soon decision to quit the engine
and made a forced landing. When I managed to find
a good power /rpm -selection, I was happy, relaxad
a bit and went on flying. I was so satisfied that
I did not try to find a solution and try magnetos
A ja B separately. Maybe I thought -"the situation
is good enough now - do not try to irritate it and
dig any blood from my nose!".
I have earlier forgot to mention one thing: when I
tried to increase power by moving a power lever
forward, I got significantly less power!
That combination was somekind a sweet pot.
The spark plug head was blue, you remember?
I think it has been very hot. Maybe because it was
totally short circuited. Then it was red glowing
all time long - that is why I was talking about
detonation. The mixture was maybe full time and
totally exploded before the correct time. That is
known to happen when for example one valve is red
hot. If there has been detonation - there should
also be some marks in the piston: after a hard
load detonation the piston will be burned, a low
load detonation can even split the piston.
Also, I assume the coils are somehow connected
together. I mean, a missfiring in one spark and in
one cylinder, could it also disturb another one
(spark /cylinder) ??? If so, that means more
vibra.
Anyway - this is quite an unusual think to happen.
A Rotax Service Agent in Finland told me that
there has only once before reported him about an
inflight broken spark plug. That means about 1
plug failures let us say in every 25.000 flight
hours or less (under his thumb there are about 100
Rotaxes, 10 years and +50 hrs /year / engine).
So, obviously there are no reasons to worry about
loosing a spark plug during a flight. We all are
changing them every 100 hrs flight time, are not
we?
Raimo OH-XRT Finland, will be in Sicily in few
hours
Viestit: 121
Liittynyt: 13:35 Tiistai 10 02 2004
Paikkakunta: Toijala
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: zwakie
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Heavy In-flight
Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(
<mz@cariama.nl>
I have another thought on top: what will this have
done to the crankshaft and/or piston rod and
bearings?
Should one be worried about increased tolerances,
excessive wear a.s.o., especially having continued
flight for an hour?
I have made the same mental note that Frans has
made, I too would not have expected vibrations to
become so imminent by one failing spark plug.
Thanks Raimo!
--------
Marcel
(Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354495#354495
browse
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FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) |
Hi Ivan
Sorry, I did not get your answer!
Tell wisher to Jan, will see during next Europa Scandinavian Meet?
do not archive
From: Ivan Midwing
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution
/The Winner(s)
Dear Raimo,
As I remember I wrote sparkplugs, maybe to generic?
Maybe then only half right?
Most important is
What do we learn and how to avoid....(from your experience that is)
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Blue Skies
Your friendly neighbor to the west, (Varberg Sweden)
Ivan
Ps;
Will forward your discoveries to my friend Jan a local Europa owner.
Ds.
P: +46 703 621310
M: midwing@telia.com
9 okt 2011 kl. 21:55 skrev "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>:
All who like to know what was it
***
One week ago on Sunday I looked, found and solved the source for
vibration as follows:
First I checked the overall appearance of the plane =93 good
Then I took the prop for a closer check and drove the blades to their
finest positions =93 all very exactly 17 degrees (measured from
the tip end).
Then I drove them to the coarsest position =93 all were again
same and 29,5 degrees,
Opened the cowlings =93 just normal inside.
Took off all the sparking plugs =93 one until another were just
great =93 colour like mild milk coffee...
- until I took of the last (!) one: that was #3 (stbd side, rearmost)
and lower one: it was sky blue (a colour like RAL 5015 or Pantone
2925C).
It /they have been on service 57 hrs only.
Attached a pic of it (it was not so easy to photo it to get a correct
colour!).
I replaced all the plugs for new. That was it. As I wrote earlier
=93 My Europa was after service just great.
***
My mistake: I did not try during the flight one week ago the magnetos
A and B alone. I could not imagine that would be a solution for a
smoother ride. You remember =93 one power selection and one
rpm-selection only together was acceptable to continue the flight with a
reasonable vibra only.
***
How could loosing only one plug to make such a hard situation? My only
guess is that it was detonation; below and over certain rpm=C2=B4s and
map=C2=B4s the engine was very unhappy. Why so =93 I am sure
someone of you can explain it. Certainly the plug has been very hot.
***
I consulted a Finnish Rotax agent: during a last decade he remembered
only another case loosing a spark plug from Rotax. That case the spark
was only dead and no noticeable problems during the flight. His ten
years are equal of well over 200.000 hrs of Rotax flight time (200
planes x 100 hrs /year x 10 year).
***
Dear competitors: I got several answers. Some of them are a bit funny
but all are valuable. Thanks for great inputs. All of you, also those
privat answers.
Only one of you guessed the right answer. That was Bob Yearly by
writing as follows, that was a great list for all of
us, thank you.
Many things to check.
Carbs:
Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak.
Especially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power
setting.
Check carb balance.
Engine Electrics:
First check ignition A and B separate.
Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
Pull plugs and look for differences.
Fuel :
Check carb float bowls for dirt.
Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
Exhaust:
Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot,
looseness or failures.
Regards,
Bud
***
Problems: The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
So, Bud is not a winner but that is not a problem for him I am sure.
What is the jury=C2=B4s decision? All of you (who gave a guess or
more) will get a little surprising shipment from Finland: just let me
know your exact address info details direct to
info@rwm.fi
Also the daughters.
Thanks,
Terveisin,
<allekirjoitus%20raimo[1].gif>
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=C3=A4lyk=C3=A4st=C3=A4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
<aaa[1].gif>
37500 Lemp=C3=A4=C3=A4l=C3=A4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info@rwm.fi
From: Bud Yerly
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:15 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
Many things to check.
Carbs:
Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak.
Especially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power
setting.
Check carb balance.
Engine Electrics:
First check ignition A and B separate.
Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
Pull plugs and look for differences.
Fuel :
Check carb float bowls for dirt.
Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
Exhaust:
Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot,
looseness or failures.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Raimo Toivio
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 3:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
All
I have hope-so a nice riddle for you.
Maybe all the answers are useful =93 let=C2=B4s collect them
all:
***
Yesterday I took off from a very remote /small /windy (90 degrees 12
knots and gusting MUCH) grass strip. Soon until well over the ground at
altitude +500 feet with full power and 2nd fuel pump still on and gears
up I felt suddenly let us say medium or more shake and vibration. My
immediate reaction was to go around and land immediately but abandoned
because wind was so furious and I felt I cannot do that (a succesful
landing).
I decided to try to fly to the next possible sensible airfield EFHV
which was 10 minutes apart.
Those minutes were long: I put my prob (Airmaster CS) to manual and
drived it from fine to coarse, tried all the power settings and also a
2nd fuel filter. Finally I noticed that when prop was in a climb mode
(in my case 5400 rpm /Rotax 912S) and MAP around 20 inches I got quite a
comfortable flying mode and I headed straight home. My airspeed was w
that selection about 110 knots but because of a strong headwind GS was
only about 70 knots (wanted to be clearly over the ground at 3000 ft
because it was well over sunset and totally dark, yesterday we got
sunset around 1600 Zulutime and time was well over 1630 when flying).
So, I pushed home one looooong hour. All the aerodynamics were well.
I was a bit worried my engine will separate or so. When trying to push
more pwr it was more vibra and when trying to pull less pwr same. I
Followed a main highway and decided to land there if feeling so. Cars
there with lights are almost like a lighted runway...
Finally landing to the EFTP flawlesly.
***
Today we had a FHGP (Family Hangar Grill Party). I tried to check my
plane as well as I can. I found something. Very small evidence but
something anyway. I tried to fix it and had a test run. I elected to go
to fly =93 hey I am a test pilot who else =93 and She was
better than ever!
I managed to do 2 touches and goes when C172 did one with same
runway.
140 knots during downwind makes me always happy.
***
So =93 dear Ladies and Gentlemen =93 what was wrong?
It would be nice and very life-useful to hear your opinions or
guesses what was wrong.
***
The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
The Prize: The Best Guess will get a Very Special Xmas Present from
Finland!
***
I will let you know a solution after a week =93 be patient.
Have a nice weekend and
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
<Europa%20A2A-ala2OK[1].png>
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 258,3
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
<Europa_2011_spark(ing)_plug_blue.jpg>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ballistic Parachute |
I did the original engineering analysis on the ballistic chute installation and
helped Miles McCallum make the design changes to the FLYER Europa.
We attached the chute strops to the engine frame and the area around the aft pins.
The idea being to support the airframe in a level attitude. The installation
of the chute cannister was to the D-ring. The straps were to be buried in
channels moulded into the skin (therefore making a joggle for all running loads
in the fuselage). This was not good and caused local bending which had to
be reinforced with more material (thereby increasing the offset/joggle). The
loads were high (but controlled due to the BRS furling ring).
The exist hatch for the chute was catered for in the usual way - by means of a
ring reinforement.
The whole thing had to be designed, stressed and re-designed about 10 times, then
BRS changed the cannister shape, etc.
Miles then decided to can it (pun!)and we concentrated on the taildragger (reversed
maingear legs) design and sressing. As Ian says the project lives on and
will hopefully be completed soon. The aircraft syle is lovely with the reverse
raked gear legs, much nicer than the swiss versions l have seen (and without
all that weight).
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355393#355393
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/europa_td_side_204.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) |
Hi Ivor
I am sure they (your eyes) are. You saw right. There was not any paste
left in the picture, but there was when replacing them!
It was wiped off because I put those old plugs to their tight collecting
box, which I made by white foam you know. Paste which is left is
there...
Cheers, Raimo
From: PHILLIPS I
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution
/The Winner(s)
Hi Raimo
Perhaps my eyes are not as good as they were, But i cannot see any
Silicone paste
residue on the threads of your spark plug, Rotax recommend it to
reduce Spark plug temps,
I have used Dow corning DC340 to good affect on my engine,
best wishes
Ivor
On 9 October 2011 20:55, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
All who like to know what was it
***
One week ago on Sunday I looked, found and solved the source for
vibration as follows:
First I checked the overall appearance of the plane ' good
Then I took the prop for a closer check and drove the blades to their
finest positions ' all very exactly 17 degrees (measured from the tip
end).
Then I drove them to the coarsest position ' all were again same and
29,5 degrees,
Opened the cowlings ' just normal inside.
Took off all the sparking plugs ' one until another were just great
' colour like mild milk coffee...
- until I took of the last (!) one: that was #3 (stbd side, rearmost)
and lower one: it was sky blue (a colour like RAL 5015 or Pantone
2925C).
It /they have been on service 57 hrs only.
Attached a pic of it (it was not so easy to photo it to get a correct
colour!).
I replaced all the plugs for new. That was it. As I wrote earlier '
My Europa was after service just great.
***
My mistake: I did not try during the flight one week ago the magnetos
A and B alone. I could not imagine that would be a solution for a
smoother ride. You remember ' one power selection and one
rpm-selection only together was acceptable to continue the flight with a
reasonable vibra only.
***
How could loosing only one plug to make such a hard situation? My only
guess is that it was detonation; below and over certain rpm=B4s and
map=B4s the engine was very unhappy. Why so ' I am sure someone of you
can explain it. Certainly the plug has been very hot.
***
I consulted a Finnish Rotax agent: during a last decade he remembered
only another case loosing a spark plug from Rotax. That case the spark
was only dead and no noticeable problems during the flight. His ten
years are equal of well over 200.000 hrs of Rotax flight time (200
planes x 100 hrs /year x 10 year).
***
Dear competitors: I got several answers. Some of them are a bit funny
but all are valuable. Thanks for great inputs. All of you, also those
privat answers.
Only one of you guessed the right answer. That was Bob Yearly by
writing as follows, that was a great list for all of
us, thank you.
Many things to check.
Carbs:
Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak.
Especially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power
setting.
Check carb balance.
Engine Electrics:
First check ignition A and B separate.
Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
Pull plugs and look for differences.
Fuel :
Check carb float bowls for dirt.
Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
Exhaust:
Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot,
looseness or failures.
Regards,
Bud
***
Problems: The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
So, Bud is not a winner but that is not a problem for him I am sure.
What is the jury=B4s decision? All of you (who gave a guess or more)
will get a little surprising shipment from Finland: just let me know
your exact address info details direct to
info@rwm.fi
Also the daughters.
Thanks,
Terveisin,
Raimo Toivio
RWM-SYSTEMS
"=E4lyk=E4st=E4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
37500 Lemp=E4=E4l=E4
FINLAND
p. 03 - 3753 777
f. 03 - 3753 100
www.rwm.fi
info@rwm.fi
From: Bud Yerly
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:15 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
Many things to check.
Carbs:
Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak.
Especially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power
setting.
Check carb balance.
Engine Electrics:
First check ignition A and B separate.
Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
Pull plugs and look for differences.
Fuel :
Check carb float bowls for dirt.
Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
Exhaust:
Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot,
looseness or failures.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Raimo Toivio
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 3:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
All
I have hope-so a nice riddle for you.
Maybe all the answers are useful ' let=B4s collect them all:
***
Yesterday I took off from a very remote /small /windy (90 degrees 12
knots and gusting MUCH) grass strip. Soon until well over the ground at
altitude +500 feet with full power and 2nd fuel pump still on and gears
up I felt suddenly let us say medium or more shake and vibration. My
immediate reaction was to go around and land immediately but abandoned
because wind was so furious and I felt I cannot do that (a succesful
landing).
I decided to try to fly to the next possible sensible airfield EFHV
which was 10 minutes apart.
Those minutes were long: I put my prob (Airmaster CS) to manual and
drived it from fine to coarse, tried all the power settings and also a
2nd fuel filter. Finally I noticed that when prop was in a climb mode
(in my case 5400 rpm /Rotax 912S) and MAP around 20 inches I got quite a
comfortable flying mode and I headed straight home. My airspeed was w
that selection about 110 knots but because of a strong headwind GS was
only about 70 knots (wanted to be clearly over the ground at 3000 ft
because it was well over sunset and totally dark, yesterday we got
sunset around 1600 Zulutime and time was well over 1630 when flying).
So, I pushed home one looooong hour. All the aerodynamics were well.
I was a bit worried my engine will separate or so. When trying to push
more pwr it was more vibra and when trying to pull less pwr same. I
Followed a main highway and decided to land there if feeling so. Cars
there with lights are almost like a lighted runway...
Finally landing to the EFTP flawlesly.
***
Today we had a FHGP (Family Hangar Grill Party). I tried to check my
plane as well as I can. I found something. Very small evidence but
something anyway. I tried to fix it and had a test run. I elected to go
to fly ' hey I am a test pilot who else ' and She was better than
ever!
I managed to do 2 touches and goes when C172 did one with same
runway.
140 knots during downwind makes me always happy.
***
So ' dear Ladies and Gentlemen ' what was wrong?
It would be nice and very life-useful to hear your opinions or
guesses what was wrong.
***
The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
The Prize: The Best Guess will get a Very Special Xmas Present from
Finland!
***
I will let you know a solution after a week ' be patient.
Have a nice weekend and
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 258,3
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner(s) |
Raimo,
No Worries!
Will forward your message.
I am somewhat lurking on the forum trying to learn more about the little Eur
opa.
Hoping to be able and buy the "new" kit with hightop and all latest improvem
ents.
But I am still struggling with financing a bit due to job loss.
Hoping to find something new to liv on after a flying career witch stopped d
ue to kidney stones about 7 years ago.
Running a small seasonal business with seakayaks today but need something mo
re substantial or wife will kill me if I try to order a kit before a "real j
ob" as she call it with better incomes.
But as soon as I find a new god product or partner then I will start buildin
g my own little fun plane!
Nice to learn that there are builders quite nearby with god knowledge and ex
perience from the kit.
As I am trying to figure out all things I would like to implement in the kit
.
Guess the factory hasn't all "improvements" in the new ones...
Don't now why my message didn't show up where it would gave been more detece
ble but maybe it was because my answer bounced to the "wrong" adress.
Anyway, hope you don't get bad spark plugs again witch surely can be scary w
hen sitting and trying to figure out what the F... Is going on.
But your generosity in sharing your experience is mutch appreciated I am sur
e!
If you should drop by ESGV please let Jan now ahead so he can call me, it wo
uld be fun to check you plane out and learn more.
All the best and
Blue Skies!
Ivan
KajakCenter-Halland.se
P: +46 703 621310
M: midwing@telia.com
18 okt 2011 kl. 16:01 skrev "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>:
> Hi Ivan
>
> Sorry, I did not get your answer!
>
> Tell wisher to Jan, will see during next Europa Scandinavian Meet?
>
> do not archive
>
> From: Ivan Midwing
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 12:17 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /
The Winner(s)
>
> Dear Raimo,
> As I remember I wrote sparkplugs, maybe to generic?
> Maybe then only half right?
> Most important is
> What do we learn and how to avoid....(from your experience that is)
> Thanks for sharing your experience!
> Blue Skies
>
> Your friendly neighbor to the west, (Varberg Sweden)
> Ivan
> Ps;
> Will forward your discoveries to my friend Jan a local Europa owner.
> Ds.
>
> P: +46 703 621310
> M: midwing@telia.com
>
>
> 9 okt 2011 kl. 21:55 skrev "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>:
>
>> All who like to know what was it
>>
>> ***
>>
>> One week ago on Sunday I looked, found and solved the source for vibratio
n as follows:
>>
>> First I checked the overall appearance of the plane =93 good
>> Then I took the prop for a closer check and drove the blades to their fin
est positions =93 all very exactly 17 degrees (measured from the tip e
nd).
>> Then I drove them to the coarsest position =93 all were again same a
nd 29,5 degrees,
>> Opened the cowlings =93 just normal inside.
>> Took off all the sparking plugs =93 one until another were just gre
at =93 colour like mild milk coffee...
>>
>> - until I took of the last (!) one: that was #3 (stbd side, rearmost) and
lower one: it was sky blue (a colour like RAL 5015 or Pantone 2925C).
>>
>> It /they have been on service 57 hrs only.
>>
>> Attached a pic of it (it was not so easy to photo it to get a correct col
our!).
>>
>> I replaced all the plugs for new. That was it. As I wrote earlier =93
My Europa was after service just great.
>>
>> ***
>> My mistake: I did not try during the flight one week ago the magnetos A a
nd B alone. I could not imagine that would be a solution for a smoother ride
. You remember =93 one power selection and one rpm-selection only toge
ther was acceptable to continue the flight with a reasonable vibra only.
>>
>> ***
>> How could loosing only one plug to make such a hard situation? My only gu
ess is that it was detonation; below and over certain rpm=C2=B4s and map=C2=B4
s the engine was very unhappy. Why so =93 I am sure someone of you can
explain it. Certainly the plug has been very hot.
>>
>> ***
>> I consulted a Finnish Rotax agent: during a last decade he remembered onl
y another case loosing a spark plug from Rotax. That case the spark was only
dead and no noticeable problems during the flight. His ten years are equal
of well over 200.000 hrs of Rotax flight time (200 planes x 100 hrs /year x
10 year).
>>
>> ***
>> Dear competitors: I got several answers. Some of them are a bit funny but
all are valuable. Thanks for great inputs. All of you, also those privat an
swers.
>>
>> Only one of you guessed the right answer. That was Bob Yearly by writing a
s follows, that was a great list for all of
>> us, thank you.
>>
>>
>> Many things to check.
>> Carbs:
>> Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak. Especi
ally since it seems to have just started and abates at low power setting.
>> Check carb balance.
>> Engine Electrics:
>> First check ignition A and B separate.
>> Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
>> Pull plugs and look for differences.
>> Fuel :
>> Check carb float bowls for dirt.
>> Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
>> Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
>> Exhaust:
>> Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot, looseness o
r failures.
>> Regards,
>> Bud
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Problems: The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
>>
>> So, Bud is not a winner but that is not a problem for him I am sure.
>>
>> What is the jury=C2=B4s decision? All of you (who gave a guess or more) w
ill get a little surprising shipment from Finland: just let me know your exa
ct address info details direct to
>>
>> info@rwm.fi
>>
>> Also the daughters.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Terveisin,
>> <allekirjoitus%20raimo[1].gif>
>> Raimo Toivio
>>
>> RWM-SYSTEMS
>> "=C3=A4lyk=C3=A4st=C3=A4 informaatiotekniikkaa vuodesta 1980"
>>
>> <aaa[1].gif>
>>
>> 37500 Lemp=C3=A4=C3=A4l=C3=A4
>> FINLAND
>>
>> p. 03 - 3753 777
>> f. 03 - 3753 100
>>
>> www.rwm.fi
>> info@rwm.fi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bud Yerly
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:15 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
>>
>> Many things to check.
>> Carbs:
>> Check for a vacuum leak or a carb intake or carb to manifold leak. Espec
ially since it seems to have just started and abates at low power setting.
>> Check carb balance.
>>
>> Engine Electrics:
>> First check ignition A and B separate.
>> Second check plugs, check coil. (one bad coil really shakes also)
>> Pull plugs and look for differences.
>>
>> Fuel :
>> Check carb float bowls for dirt.
>> Check fuel pressure regulator for 914
>> Finally your fuel pump delivery pressure.
>>
>> Exhaust:
>> Check no exhaust failure. Look at the entire exhaust for soot, looseness
or failures.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bud
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Raimo Toivio
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 3:44 PM
>> Subject: Europa-List: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle
>>
>> All
>>
>> I have hope-so a nice riddle for you.
>>
>> Maybe all the answers are useful =93 let=C2=B4s collect them all:
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Yesterday I took off from a very remote /small /windy (90 degrees 12 knot
s and gusting MUCH) grass strip. Soon until well over the ground at altitude
ddenly let us say medium or more shake and vibration. My immediate reaction w
as to go around and land immediately but abandoned because wind was so furio
us and I felt I cannot do that (a succesful landing).
>>
>> I decided to try to fly to the next possible sensible airfield EFHV which
was 10 minutes apart.
>>
>> Those minutes were long: I put my prob (Airmaster CS) to manual and drive
d it from fine to coarse, tried all the power settings and also a 2nd fuel f
ilter. Finally I noticed that when prop was in a climb mode (in my case 5400
rpm /Rotax 912S) and MAP around 20 inches I got quite a comfortable flying m
ode and I headed straight home. My airspeed was w that selection about 110 k
nots but because of a strong headwind GS was only about 70 knots (wanted to b
e clearly over the ground at 3000 ft because it was well over sunset and tot
ally dark, yesterday we got sunset around 1600 Zulutime and time was well ov
er 1630 when flying).
>>
>> So, I pushed home one looooong hour. All the aerodynamics were well. I wa
s a bit worried my engine will separate or so. When trying to push more pwr i
t was more vibra and when trying to pull less pwr same. I Followed a main hi
ghway and decided to land there if feeling so. Cars there with lights are al
most like a lighted runway...
>>
>> Finally landing to the EFTP flawlesly.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> Today we had a FHGP (Family Hangar Grill Party). I tried to check my plan
e as well as I can. I found something. Very small evidence but something any
way. I tried to fix it and had a test run. I elected to go to fly =93 h
ey I am a test pilot who else =93 and She was better than ever!
>>
>> I managed to do 2 touches and goes when C172 did one with same runway.
>>
>> 140 knots during downwind makes me always happy.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> So =93 dear Ladies and Gentlemen =93 what was wrong?
>>
>> It would be nice and very life-useful to hear your opinions or guesses wh
at was wrong.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> The Rules: one single guess per person, please.
>>
>> The Prize: The Best Guess will get a Very Special Xmas Present from Finla
nd!
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I will let you know a solution after a week =93 be patient.
>>
>> Have a nice weekend and
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Raimo Toivio
>>
>> <Europa%20A2A-ala2OK[1].png>
>> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
>>
>> Updated flight hours /landings: 258,3
>>
>> 37500 Lempaala
>> FINLAND
>>
>> p +358-3-3753 777
>> f +358-3-3753 100
>>
>> toivio@fly.to
>> www.rwm.fi
>>
>>
>
>> <Europa_2011_spark(ing)_plug_blue.jpg>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The |
Winner(
On 10/18/2011 03:58 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> I have earlier forgot to mention one thing: when I tried to increase
> power by moving a power lever forward, I got significantly less power!
This is a weird thing. Maybe the carb slide was stuck after all, so
opening the throttle further would result in a leaner mixture. A leaner
mixture burns hotter and slower. Maybe that caused the spark plug to fail.
Another option is that you had a hidden problem: One spark plug lead
cross coupled from another cylinder (so it was firing when the piston
was at one of its lower positions), maybe due to a short circuit between
two spark plug cables. The interesting thing is that nothing bad happens
as long as the correct spark plug fires, because for the one with the
wrong timing there is nothing left to ignite and it sparks into a
non-combustible void. But then as soon as the correct plug fails, the
mixture will be ignited by the remaining spark plug which fires at the
wrong time, and the burning mixture works against the up-moving piston.
This will also heat the spark plugs and cause a hell of a vibration.
> The spark plug head was blue, you remember?
Precisely.
> I think it has been very hot. Maybe because it was totally short
> circuited.
No, you can't get it hot by short circuiting it. Ignition has a very
high voltage but low amperage. Total energy is very low, way to low to
even warm the plug.
> Also, I assume the coils are somehow connected together. I mean, a
> missfiring in one spark and in one cylinder, could it also disturb
> another one (spark /cylinder) ??? If so, that means more vibra.
I think you really have to carefully check the whole ignition and carbs.
I wouldn't fly it anymore until this is done. I know it runs ok now, but
maybe there was a reason why the spark plug failed, and if this reason
still exists it will happen again.
As far as I can tell, the whole situation is not what you would get with
just a faulty spark plug.
> Anyway - this is quite an unusual think to happen.
Sure it is. Therefore, dig to the root of it before flying it again.
Frans
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling hole in fuel filler tube |
Tony=0Arun the tank breather in 3/8 aluminium from top of tank to just belo
w top of =0Afiller cobra. Then run the in flight breather in 1/4" down to j
ust behind and =0Abelow the flap.=0AMetal is best but needs to be grounded
to prevent static build up. Fuel droplets =0Ain a plastic tube and hi speed
airflow will charge up like raindrops in =0Aa thunderstorm.=0AHappened at
least once that I know of.=0AI've attached a pik, the blue fittings are bul
khead swaged fittings, easiest way =0Ato attach if a bit expensive.=0AGraha
m=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Frans Veldman <frans@
privatepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, 18 Octob
er, 2011 12:50:18=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Drilling hole in fuel filler
lots.nl>=0A=0AOn 10/18/2011 01:07 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote:=0A> I am about to
drill 1 or 2 holes in the neck of the fuel filler tube, for anti =0A>sypho
n and vent. If I had a T piece ai suppose I could just drill 1 hole, but I
=0A>have seen others with 2, so feel I am safe to follow. I have plastic dr
ill bits =0A>including 3/8", and am wondering about advice in affixing the
black grommets =0A>rubber plug variety as sold by Spruce, with the bsyonet
metal fitting,=0A> . Anyone done this before who can share any advice???=0A
=0AUse 2 holes, you need the top of the fuel filler tube as a "plenum". The
fuel =0Avent from the tank not only releases air during filling, but also
a good deal of =0Afuel. You will want the fuel to return to the tank, and t
he air to escape.=0A=0AAlso, my mistake was to project the opening of the t
ube somewhat in the =0Adirection of the fuel cap. So during filling when th
e tank is almost full, the =0Atube starts spitting out splashes of fuel whi
ch is quite a nuisance.=0A=0AFor securing the metal tubes I used some Arald
ite. It is fuel resistant and =0Aappears to hold very well on the fuel fill
======================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Toe vs Finger Brakes |
So, I am not so pleased with my finger brakes.
But I am not sure that I have the right braking cylinders.
My classic is a trigear conversion. I have seen in the builders manual there
are two types of cylinders used. Both have got an external brake fluid reservoir.
My cylinders haven't got one. The right cylinder begins braking much earlier
but I'm getting used to it. Even the brakes are very weak.
Maybe I should bleed them but have got no idea what kind of brake fluid the builders
used.
I jealously looked at the breaking cylinders of an race kart, they seemed to have
the same size.
Any suggestions?
Regards Juergen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355453#355453
Message 12
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Hi Paul I have all the extra mono bits left over from my tri-gear so
contact me off line at rcollings@talktalk.com if you want the tail
wheel.Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 10:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Tail Wheel
Hi All,
I am about to order a new tail wheel but before I do I just wanted to
check in to see if anyone had a tail wheel left over from a Tri
conversion that I might be able to purchase.
Cheers, Paul
Message 13
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| Subject: | Attaching Fuel Filler Tube to Fuse |
Gidday again,
I'm about to do this task and was wondering if others perceive a benefit in having
the 2 strapping BID tapes that bond the tube to the fuse be "NOT ATTACHED"
to the tube? I have reinforced the underlying area with Balsa and 2 plies of
BID, and will be attaching my tapes to this surface, but wonder whether the top
tape just beneath the bowl of the filler neck will be enough in combination
with the throat of the filler neck firmly supported as it exits the splash moulding
of the skin, and the lower tape just holds the tube in place. The rest of
the support comes from the elbow and the tubing that connects the filler to
the tank. I am just wondering whether I should layup the tapes onto duct tape
stuck on the filler tube, or something similar, such that the two are not permanently
bonded.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching Fuel Filler Tube to Fuse |
Tony,
I suggest not doing that as the bond you get between the bid tapes and the
"cobra" is not good anyway.
I had to remove the bid tapes to strengthen behind the cobra and the tapes
peeled off the cobra effortlessly.
The Aluminium pipe also keeps it rigid and in place.
Hope that is a help.
Cheers,
Tim
P.S Don't get locked out!
Tim Ward,
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch 8052
New Zealand
Ph; 03 3515166
Mob; 0210640221
email; ward.t@xtra.co.nz
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Renshaw
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:43 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Attaching Fuel Filler Tube to Fuse
Gidday again,
I'm about to do this task and was wondering if others perceive a benefit in
having the 2 strapping BID tapes that bond the tube to the fuse be "NOT
ATTACHED" to the tube? I have reinforced the underlying area with Balsa and
2 plies of BID, and will be attaching my tapes to this surface, but wonder
whether the top tape just beneath the bowl of the filler neck will be enough
in combination with the throat of the filler neck firmly supported as it
exits the splash moulding of the skin, and the lower tape just holds the
tube in place. The rest of the support comes from the elbow and the tubing
that connects the filler to the tank. I am just wondering whether I should
layup the tapes onto duct tape stuck on the filler tube, or something
similar, such that the two are not permanently bonded.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Message 15
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| Subject: | Flap Actuator Tube |
The DAR was here to day and found several discrepancies. The one that should not
have been is an incomplete weld on one of the brackets on the flap actuator
tube. If you have not yet installed it, check the welds on it. It appears that
some of them were delivered from the factory only tack welded. Much easier to
fix before it goes into the plane.
Jim Puglise
A283
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