Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:41 AM - Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Carl Meek)
2. 12:49 AM - Re: door warp (Max Cointe)
3. 03:55 AM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (ANTHONY HIGGINS)
4. 04:10 AM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 04:56 AM - Re: door warp (Remi Guerner)
6. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Motor glider Wings (Christoph Both)
7. 05:52 AM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Carl Meek)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: door warp (William McClellan)
9. 12:55 PM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Bob Harrison)
10. 01:31 PM - Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 (Snowflake)
11. 01:40 PM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Nigel Graham)
12. 03:02 PM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Carl Meek)
13. 03:11 PM - Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 (Nic)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
Hi,
This is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this to the Europa list
rather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3300 getting too hot
seems to be a specific Europa problem, even listed on the LAA's approval
document as an issue!
Anyway, I have been looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I
think this is a really interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from
the Rotax engines. They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the
heads only hit 200 degrees!
Here's the link:
http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch/
I'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate, we all know how
that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts on this idea.
Technical and otherwise.
My other particular line of enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype
Modification Approval with the LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down
time the aircraft is likely to have as a result.
Regards,
-Carl.
Message 2
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Hi Skip,
I think that the elevation of the corners of the doors comes from the
original struts positioning. Just applying the mod and change the way
the
struts push on the doors when closed will solve for a large part. You
can
effectively accelerate the process by placing heavy weights, but this
will
be efficient on long term only if you apply the mod. Few hours of job
during
winter=92s bad MTO J
Cheers,
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Neville
Eyre
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 octobre 2011 22:53
=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: door warp
Hi Skip,
Weights [ shot or sand bag] on the door corners will in time recover the
doors to original shape, I have also used a luggage strap around the
fuselage with local wood [ 3'' long 1'' x 2''] intensifiers to do the
same
job.
Taking the gas struts off will speed up the recovery, but take care if
you
have the plastic ball joint sockets as they can only be sprung off a few
times before they come too loose.
Leave the plane out in the sun, let it come back slowly, could take
weeks !
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: egp8111 <egp8111@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:55
Subject: Europa-List: door warp
My mono wheel has been sitting up for an extended period in a warm
climate
and
the top rear corners of the doors have warped up slightly from where the
gas
struts pushed on them. (orginal strut position). Anyone have any
suggestions on
how I might get the corners back down to the orginal shape ?
thanks
Skip
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356092#356092
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
Hi,=0A-=0ABest to check this with LAA. I have checked and it seems to be
a dead end. Some thing to do with Jabiru not allowing the engine to be seen
as a new type in the UK.=0A-=0ARegards Tony Higgins,=0AEuropa Mono G-CHA
H Airmaster Prop=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Carl Meek
<carlmeek@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 28 Oc
tober 2011, 8:38=0ASubject: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the
Jabiru 3300=0A=0A=0AHi,=0A=0AThis is my first post, I hope it works! -I'm
posting this to the Europa list rather than the Jabiru engine list because
the Jab 3300 getting too hot seems to be a specific Europa problem, even l
isted on the LAA's approval document as an issue!=0A=0AAnyway, I have been
looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I think this is a really
interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from the Rotax engines.
-They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the heads only hit 2
00 degrees!=0A=0AHere's the link:=0Ahttp://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-i
nfo/lch/=0A=0AI'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate,
we all know how that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts
on this idea. -Technical and otherwise.=0A=0AMy other particular line of
enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype Modification Approval with t
he LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down time the aircraft is likely
====
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
That's a shame Tony,=0Aseems to me it's the sensible thing to do with a Jab
. Or a Lycoming if it comes =0Ato that! {{;-<=0ASomeones cage needs to be
rattled (imho)=0Aregards=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________
__=0AFrom: ANTHONY HIGGINS <anthonyhiggins596@btinternet.com>=0ATo: "europa
-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Friday, 28 October
, 2011 11:52:48=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for t
he Jabiru 3300=0A=0A=0AHi,=0A =0ABest to check this with LAA. I have checke
d and it seems to be a dead end. Some =0Athing to do with Jabiru not allowi
ng the engine to be seen as a new type in the =0AUK.=0A =0ARegards Tony Hig
gins,=0AEuropa Mono G-CHAH Airmaster Prop=0A=0AFrom: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gm
ail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 28 October 2011, 8
:38=0ASubject: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
=0A=0A=0AHi,=0A=0AThis is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this
to the Europa list =0Arather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3
300 getting too hot seems to =0Abe a specific Europa problem, even listed o
n the LAA's approval document as an =0Aissue!=0A=0AAnyway, I have been look
ing at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I think =0Athis is a really
interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from the Rotax =0Aengines.
They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the heads only hit =0A
200 degrees!=0A=0AHere's the link:=0Ahttp://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-
info/lch/=0A=0AI'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate,
we all know how =0Athat debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoug
hts on this idea. =0A Technical and otherwise.=0A=0AMy other particular lin
e of enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype =0AModification Approva
l with the LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down time =0Athe aircraf
t is likely to have as a result.=0A=0ARegards,=0A-Carl.=0A el=nofollow t
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List =0Aet=_blan
k>http://forums.matronics.com llow =0Atarget=_blank>http://www.matronics.
======================= =0A
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Hi Skip,
I agree with Max: the key is to do the strut repositioning mod first.
In my case the rear corners came back on their own to their original flush position
a few months after I performed the mod.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356170#356170
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| Subject: | Re: Motor glider Wings |
Hello,
Having classic wings I was advised then to set the socket and classic forwa
rd wing lift pin exactly 12 mm lower than the original manual specifies. I
just managed to do so before drilling the holes!
Cheers,
Christoph Both
#223 Classic (almost completed)
Nova Scotia, Canada
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neville Eyre
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings
Hi,
The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic.
Remove the pins with heat and Mole grips [ with a cloth wrap if you are goi
ng to re use the pins].Mask the root rib with thick card and alloy foil, ge
t the pin hot quick, and quench the root rib with a wet towel ASAP.
Grind the Bid off the face of the alloy plate stack with a B&D Fingerfile,
keep grinding on the alloy to get heat into the plate, ping it off with a c
hisel. Keep going on the next two lots of Bid and plates.
Feather and scuff sand the glass lay up on the root rib.
Replace 3 new plates as per Manual.[XS] Drill / Tap for the pins as per Man
ual.
Fuselage;
Cut away the vertical stiffener [ foam / glass ] inside the cockpit, behind
the lift socket.
Unbolt the lift socket from the fuselage, sweat off with heat.
The ''neat'' way now is to grind through the glass lay ups on the inside t
o expose the alloy plate imbedded in the fuselage, and with the fingerfile
sander, get heat into the alloy and dig that out, then replace the alloy /
glass........ easy way is to fill the three holes with flox, a 4 Bid patch
over the original plate, another plate , 4 Bid over the top of the plate, r
efer to Manual for the original instruction, usual deal regarding scuff san
ding / flox etc....
Fitting the socket to the fuselage is as per Manual, but it is a lot easier
as with the drag pins engaged, and the spar pins in, there is no incedence
setting to do.
Replace the foam core that was removed, repair the stiffener skin, overlapp
ing at least 2'' onto the original.
Sounds drastic, but not as bad as you might think.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyingphil2 <ptiller@lolacars.com>
Sent: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 11:09
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings
to:ptiller@lolacars.com>>
That's an interesting question. Has the Europa motor glider ever been flow
n by
any gliding pundits and reviewed? I've not seen any.
Also, I seem to remember John or Roger at Europa telling me that that the
forward pin on the Classic wing would need moving (to the XS position????)
in
order to take the glider wing. I could be wrong but check that with the pe
ople
that know. I'm sure Roger said there was a procedure in progress for it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355932#355932
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
I will give Andy Draper at the LAA a call, perhaps he already reads this
list.
It would be a shame if Jabiru were to block this from happening, I'm a big
Jabiru engine fan=8A. In concept=8A but the poor thing has struggled with
temperature issues throughout it's life. I'd love to climb to 5,000ft full
power without it cooking! I have little doubt water cooled heads would
improve reliability, reduce risk of valves dropping, and improve probabilit
y
of hitting TBO.
If there is no way to put innovations like this forward, with all the prope
r
controls and checks, the UK would be missing out =AD and that's a shame.
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
That's a shame Tony,
seems to me it's the sensible thing to do with a Jab. Or a Lycoming if it
comes to that! {{;-<
Someones cage needs to be rattled (imho)
regards
Graham
From: ANTHONY HIGGINS <anthonyhiggins596@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, 28 October, 2011 11:52:48
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
Hi,
Best to check this with LAA. I have checked and it seems to be a dead end.
Some thing to do with Jabiru not allowing the engine to be seen as a new
type in the UK.
Regards Tony Higgins,
Europa Mono G-CHAH Airmaster Prop
From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2011, 8:38
Subject: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
Hi,
This is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this to the Europa lis
t
rather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3300 getting too hot
seems to be a specific Europa problem, even listed on the LAA's approval
document as an issue!
Anyway, I have been looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I
think this is a really interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from
the Rotax engines. They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the
heads only hit 200 degrees!
Here's the link:
http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch/
I'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate, we all know ho
w
that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts on this idea.
Technical and otherwise.
My other particular line of enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype
Modification Approval with the LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down
time the aircraft is likely to have as a result.
Regards,
-Carl.
el=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://======================
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There is a mod I believe first conceived by Ted Gladstone and Justin Kennedy.
Kingsley Hurst adapted it further and I took Kingsley's method and modified it
for my installation. The bracket hinge system removes essentially all load the
strut puts on the door and frame, whether the original or subsequent door strut
mod is used. Attached is a picture of the Gladstone door hinge.
Bill McClellan
A164 XS
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
Jabiru over heating, heads distorting, ......................never heard
such poppycock !!
No one has ever had such happenings !
Please excuse my sarcasm!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa originally with 3300 Jab but now in the real
world with a Rotax turbo 914!
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek
Sent: 28 October 2011 13:49
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
I will give Andy Draper at the LAA a call, perhaps he already reads this
list.
It would be a shame if Jabiru were to block this from happening, I'm a big
Jabiru engine fan.. In concept. but the poor thing has struggled with
temperature issues throughout it's life. I'd love to climb to 5,000ft full
power without it cooking! I have little doubt water cooled heads would
improve reliability, reduce risk of valves dropping, and improve probability
of hitting TBO.
If there is no way to put innovations like this forward, with all the proper
controls and checks, the UK would be missing out - and that's a shame.
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
That's a shame Tony,
seems to me it's the sensible thing to do with a Jab. Or a Lycoming if it
comes to that! {{;-<
Someones cage needs to be rattled (imho)
regards
Graham
_____
From: ANTHONY HIGGINS <anthonyhiggins596@btinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, 28 October, 2011 11:52:48
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
Hi,
Best to check this with LAA. I have checked and it seems to be a dead end.
Some thing to do with Jabiru not allowing the engine to be seen as a new
type in the UK.
Regards Tony Higgins,
Europa Mono G-CHAH Airmaster Prop
From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 28 October 2011, 8:38
Subject: Europa-List: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300
Hi,
This is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this to the Europa list
rather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3300 getting too hot
seems to be a specific Europa problem, even listed on the LAA's approval
document as an issue!
Anyway, I have been looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I
think this is a really interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from
the Rotax engines. They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the
heads only hit 200 degrees!
Here's the link:
http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch/
I'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate, we all know how
that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts on this idea.
Technical and otherwise.
My other particular line of enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype
Modification Approval with the LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down
time the aircraft is likely to have as a result.
Regards,
-Carl.
el=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://======================
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Best device to ratify the Actual Fuel Flow on a 914 |
sblack wrote:
> I have the mgl ff1 and the ft60 red cube and there is a snag. The ft60 has a
k factor of 68000 but the ff1 only allows k factors up to 60000! Have you dealt
with this Ian?
Resurrecting an old thread, I know, but I just found this after a Google search
for info on using an FT-60 Red Cube with an FF-1. The MGL website has info on
setting the right K-factor when using the FT-60:
http://www.mglavionics.com/Red_Cube_Instructions.pdf
> The EI manual lists the K-factor of the FT-60 at 68,000 pulses per Gallon. Since
the MGL Avionics system uses a liters K-factor, this value has to be divided
by 3.785 (Gallon/Liter ratio).
> Use the following in the setup:
> K-Factor: 18,000
> (Every FT-60 has the same K-factor)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356215#356215
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
Looks like an elegant solution to well documented problem. The only
potential problem I can see (and the LAA might object to) is that it
uses an electic water pump and this makes it dependant on the
electrical system. With a belt driven mechanical water pump
(automotive practice) this could work.
Nigel
On Fri 28/10/11 08:38 , Carl Meek carlmeek@gmail.com sent:
Hi,
This is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this to the
Europa list rather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3300
getting too hot seems to be a specific Europa problem, even listed on
the LAA's approval document as an issue!
Anyway, I have been looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads)
and I think this is a really interesting idea, bringing a key feature
across from the Rotax engines. They claim that in an hour of ground
running at WOT the heads only hit 200 degrees!
Here's the link: http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch
[1]/
I'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate, we all
know how that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts on
this idea. Technical and otherwise.
My other particular line of enquiry is how likely this is to get
Prototype Modification Approval with the LAA, how onerous this will
be, how much down time the aircraft is likely to have as a result.
Regards, -Carl.
HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/NAVIGATOR?EUROPA-LIST [2]
HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION [4]
Links:
------
[1] http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch
[2]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/NAVIGATOR?EUROPA-LIS
T
[3] http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/HTTP://FORUMS.MATRONICS.COM/
[4]
http://webmail.m-tecque.co.uk/HTTP://WWW.MATRONICS.COM/CONTRIBUTION
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
However they tested this and concluded it cooled without water pump no worse
than the factory heads. Sounds good to me!
Sent from my iPhone
On 28 Oct 2011, at 21:37, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
> Looks like an elegant solution to well documented problem. The only potent
ial problem I can see (and the LAA might object to) is that it uses an elect
ic water pump and this makes it dependant on the electrical system. With a b
elt driven mechanical water pump (automotive practice) this could work.
>
> Nigel
>
> On Fri 28/10/11 08:38 , Carl Meek carlmeek@gmail.com sent:
>
> Hi,
>
> This is my first post, I hope it works! I'm posting this to the Europa li
st rather than the Jabiru engine list because the Jab 3300 getting too hot s
eems to be a specific Europa problem, even listed on the LAA's approval docu
ment as an issue!
>
> Anyway, I have been looking at the ROTEC LCH (Liquid Cooled Heads) and I t
hink this is a really interesting idea, bringing a key feature across from t
he Rotax engines. They claim that in an hour of ground running at WOT the h
eads only hit 200 degrees!
>
> Here's the link:
> http://www.rotecaerosport.com/product-info/lch/
>
> I'm posting on here not to spark a "Jabiru vs Rotax" debate, we all know h
ow that debate goes, I'm simply looking for people's thoughts on this idea.
Technical and otherwise.
>
> My other particular line of enquiry is how likely this is to get Prototype
Modification Approval with the LAA, how onerous this will be, how much down
time the aircraft is likely to have as a result.
>
> Regards,
> -Carl.
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eu= --> http://for=======
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotec Liquid Cooled Heads for the Jabiru 3300 |
Friends,
Air/oil cooling is a function of air and oil ... cooling.
Oil at 120F is not a crime.
Pistons last and heads no warp.
Nic :) a-145
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