---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/29/11: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:24 AM - Re: Re: door warp (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 10:20 AM - Re: Fw: Mod 78 (Bud Yerly) 3. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Motor glider Wings (Bud Yerly) 4. 11:04 AM - Re: door warp (Bud Yerly) 5. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Motor glider Wings (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:42 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: door warp Bikk=0Aimho this is the best way to do it. As you say, there is no l;oad on the door or =0Athe fuselage. All loads are absorbed by the strut linkage. =0AVery clever but a lot of work. Be nice if someone produced the parts. ho w about =0Ait Justin Kennedy?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______=0AFrom: William McClellan =0ATo: "Europa-Lis t@matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, 28 October, 20 11 15:21:25=0ASubject: Europa-List: RE: door warp=0A=0AThere is a mod I bel ieve first conceived by Ted Gladstone and Justin Kennedy. =0AKingsley Hurs t adapted it further and I took Kingsley's method and modified it =0Afor my installation. The bracket hinge system removes essentially all load the =0Astrut puts on the door and frame, whether the original or subsequent doo r strut =0Amod is used. Attached is a picture of the Gladstone door hinge. =0A=0A=0ABill McClellan=0AA164 XS ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:16 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: Mod 78 Yes, you may order only one kit from Karen and share. I do not believe there is a significant discount though. And the tool gets a bit messy. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Zutrauen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: Mod 78 Hi Bud, Will there be opportunity to share the jig/tooling to reduce our costs? (there are three sets of long wings up here in eastern Canada). Cheers & thx, Pete A239 Ottawa On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Bud Yerly > wrote: Resent from Laptop as original did not send. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bud Yerly To: europa-list ; Dave Anderson ; Jim and Heather Butcher ; Karen Ward ; Kim Prout ; Laurie Ryan ; Ronald Parigoris ; Homer Baker ; George Reed ; Gary Leinberger ; Karl Heindl ; william maher Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Mod 78 Motor Glider Owners We are pleased to advise that Mod 78 is now available, and will be ready to ship. To help with the cost of shipping we will dispatch the kits from the Factory direct, as packaging and shipping will include the tooling. Payment will be via credit card or wire transfer to Europa Aircraft only. Our current prices for the Mods are: Option 1 - Parts & Tooling : GBP =A3869.14 Option 2 - Parts, Tooling & Resin Kit : GBP =A31163.74 Option 3 - Additional 2 off Wing Forward Pins (W25M78) for XS wings : GBP =A396.74 Please note that delivery charges are not included in the above quoted prices. If Option 2 is taken, 'Hazardous Goods' carriage charges will apply. For those choosing Option 1 in our USA Agent Custom Flight Creations has secured a glue supplier for the Ampreg 21 which will greatly reduce the Hazardous Goods charges verses shipping from the UK via air. Approximate costs for the Ampreg via Custom Flight Creations are below: F121-034 AMPREG21 RESIN 10KG ea. $160 F121-036 AMPREG21 HARD STD 3.33KG ea. $ 110 The Factory will require a 50% deposit at the time of order from your credit card for the Mod, with the balance settled prior to shipping the kits. I attach for your information the Bill of Materials for Mod 78 and Option 1 and 2 for your review. We look forward to your orders via phone or email. Many thanks and best regards, Karen Ward, Europa Center: +44 (0)1751 431773 email: enquiries@europa-aircraft.com Bud Yerly, Custom Flight Creations: 813-653-4989 email: budyerly@msn.com Europa Tech support. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:46 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings Frans, Allowances have been made and the new socket lines up with the old. New pins for the short wings are necessary. Spar cup concerns are not a problem. I'll do a group email and show the "How I did it" drawings. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings > On 10/27/2011 11:58 PM, Neville Eyre wrote: > The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic. When I was building my Europa I understood that it is possible to have both sets of wings and swap them as desired, and I anticipated for doing that in the future. Is this still possible? From your description it looks like you have to relocate the lift sockets???? So you can't have both sets of wings and interchange them? Frans http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:17 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: door warp Please refer to www.customflightcreations.com and select accessories and tips. The information on alternate Mod 66 on the website is years old and I have preferred doing the installation using this method over the Mod 66 in the past as the hump of additional structure on the door makes the seal fitting more trying, and the work required to install it is significantly easier. If you have any concerns with your skills, ability to fabricate, or have a desire to stiffen your door, buy the Mod 66 kit and install it per the instructions. Just make sure the shape of the door is where you want it or the Mod 66 overlay will set your door permanently in the shape it was when attached. Notes: Follow the guidance of Nev and others and get the doors to set properly. It is a must to get the doors to fit right! The doors should close with only light pressure to the door handle top to compress the seal and the door handle will close on its own. Don't stop until it does. Then fit the door strut using the Mod 66 or my Alternate Mod 66. I have a jig in my shop made from a thin piece of metal with holes spaced at 8 inches that is the door strut compressed length. Simply install a bolt or drill bit through the upper stud hole and attach the angle bracket with stud and plastic clip, then set the door closed. Prep the area where the bracket will set. Note a small shim of metal or clay can be used to set the fore and aft position from scratching against the rear door jamb. Use some foam or clay to hold the jig in place until the 5 minute or super glue dries which will temporarily hold the angle bracket in place. To open the door, from the other side pull the bolt or bit out of the fuselage rebate, open the door and then affix the bracket with a small screw such as a #4 wood screw. Attach the extended strut and check the extended door opening and then do the other side. Check the doors are even (onlookers would be upset if the doors weren't exactly the same( use the screw feature to adjust a bit). Then remove the jig and strut attach brackets. Remove the parts, clean off the temporary glue and secure in place with Redux. Check the installation the next day and if all is well, add two layers of glass over the bracket base with flox and fill, sand, prime and paint. Lasts forever. No more humpy door tops any longer. The struts do not need extra pressure either as this is very light construction verses the actual Mod 66. Regards, Bud Yerly Europa Tech Support ----- Original Message ----- From: Max Cointe To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 3:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: door warp Hi Skip, I think that the elevation of the corners of the doors comes from the original struts positioning. Just applying the mod and change the way the struts push on the doors when closed will solve for a large part. You can effectively accelerate the process by placing heavy weights, but this will be efficient on long term only if you apply the mod. Few hours of job during winter's bad MTO J Cheers, Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 400 hours De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Neville Eyre Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 octobre 2011 22:53 =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: door warp Hi Skip, Weights [ shot or sand bag] on the door corners will in time recover the doors to original shape, I have also used a luggage strap around the fuselage with local wood [ 3'' long 1'' x 2''] intensifiers to do the same job. Taking the gas struts off will speed up the recovery, but take care if you have the plastic ball joint sockets as they can only be sprung off a few times before they come too loose. Leave the plane out in the sun, let it come back slowly, could take weeks ! Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: egp8111 To: europa-list Sent: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:55 Subject: Europa-List: door warp > My mono wheel has been sitting up for an extended period in a warm climate and the top rear corners of the doors have warped up slightly from where the gas struts pushed on them. (orginal strut position). Anyone have any suggestions on how I might get the corners back down to the orginal shape ? thanksSkip Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356092#356092 arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listp://forums.m atronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution < - The Europa-List Email Forum Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browsehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matroni cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:09 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings Frans and others, Attached above is a drawing of how to install a wing rigging alignment device to replace the spar cups. It just attaches to the back of the fuselage. Here is an excerpt from an email I sent to another Classic Owner (mono wheel) from my tech support file from a while ago: There are a couple of things to look at with adapting the MG Wings to the Classic. First, The Classic has the wing lift points set by the owner. Measurements vary somewhat from plane to plane as we have differences in builder abilities. The leading edge of the glider wing is narrow and the molded in attach point is smaller so the forward and aft sockets may not line up acceptably with the glider wing lift pin attach points. Second, the fuselage must have Mod 52 to structurally take the stress of the motor glider wing loads. (If the Classic wings do not have Mod 74 then that must be done also for your own safety.) Your task is easier if the Mod 52 is not done. If the mod 52 is in, just try the wing rig first and see if the attach points will align, see below. Third, should the glider wing fore or aft attachment points not line up with the glider wing, don't fret: I have found it very easy to just move the attach points of the Classic fuselage to the glider wing position and simply remove and replace the pins in the Classic wing. The reason it is easier, as it seems to mean changing 8 hard points, is that it is technically easy, it will make rigging and de-rigging of the plane a snap and assure structural strength. The Classic wing is very easy to remove the pin attach points, and frankly I replace the aluminum one inch strips with two inch strips making a stiffer attach point as in the XS model. The socket attachments are quick to change also. Just unbolt and gently heat and remove, then grind the glass down. I pull out the aluminum wing root plates and replace them, as it only takes a few minutes with a dust mask and a grinder to remove. Total time with a die grinder and 40 grit paper is about 2 hours to remove the wing attachments and 2 hours to completely replace the aluminum plates with all the parts made up and on hand. It takes me 8 hours to remove the fuselage sockets and the glass and wood spacers on the fuselage side and replace them to new. Like I said, I remove the aluminum plates imbedded in the fuselage if the holes are just too far off. Hopefully you don't have to. If I have to, I grind away at the skin over the aluminum plates in the side after the glass is removed and allowing the now warm metal from grinding to detach from the inside skin, or by using a bit of heat from a soldering gun and I apply a prying force to the edge of the plate. I make another aluminum plate and install. 8-12 hours to remove and replace plus cure time. So a couple of days and you have a pristine fuselage side ready for a perfect alignment of both wings. This is not a daunting task for me, but I am more familiar than the average guy. If your original builder did a precise job of aligning the pins on the Classic, you may have no problem or only a problem with aligning the front or the rear glider lift pin. I have found one of them to be just a bit high leaving the upper skin very close to the pin attach point with the glider wing perfectly aligned. We just did a Classic and I am uncomfortably close to the top of the attachment area on the rear pin support, instead of centered in the pin area. If it were my plane I would have centered the pins and moved the fuselage sockets, but I tend to prefer to shoot for the optimum, and my clients are wanting the quick solution. Don't let a bit of glass work over a few days or a week keep you from having the joy of a soaring airplane. I can't tell you how enjoyable the motor glider is. I hope you saw my article in the Europa flyer on cross country in the MG. If not send me an email and I will send a .pdf copy. The mono with motor glider wing is carrying a hundred pounds of extra wing weight so make sure your rubber block is new as your normal touchdowns will need to absorb the extra mass. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motor glider Wings > On 10/27/2011 11:58 PM, Neville Eyre wrote: > The XS lift pins are [ from memory ] 1/2'' lower than the Classic. When I was building my Europa I understood that it is possible to have both sets of wings and swap them as desired, and I anticipated for doing that in the future. Is this still possible? From your description it looks like you have to relocate the lift sockets???? So you can't have both sets of wings and interchange them? Frans http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.