Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 06:49 AM - PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years Strong!! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Sight Guage - UK Rules (stephen vestuti)
2. 06:05 AM - Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Classic) (Manfred Jann)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years Strong!! (Richard Churchill-Coleman)
4. 09:23 AM - Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Classic) (Jan de Jong)
5. 09:38 AM - Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Classic) (Jan de Jong)
6. 09:49 AM - Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Classic) (David Joyce)
7. 10:54 AM - Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Cl (graeme bird)
8. 11:11 AM - Advice on Control Locks and Pitot / Static Covers (Carl Meek)
9. 06:37 PM - Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - Classic) (Peter Jeffers)
10. 06:43 PM - Re: PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years Strong!! (Peter Jeffers)
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years Strong!! |
Dear Listers,
This year marks 21 years of the Email Lists and Forums at Matronics! I've been
running these forums for nearly half my life! I've made some great friends over
the years and had countless email and personal conversations with builders
about aircraft building and flying. What a great community of people! The advice,
support, and friendship has be invaluable over the years.
To support the continued operation and upgrade of the List servers, each November
I hold a PBS-like fund raiser. It is solely through the Contributions of List
members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising
to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing
banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web
site pages including:
* Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
* Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search
* Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
* Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List experience
that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - airplanes!
During the month of November, I will be sending out List messages every couple
of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular
messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year we've got another terrific line up of free gifts to go along
with the various Contribution levels. Many of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists
and they have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
* Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
* Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, and Andy for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-8 Builder (and Rebuilder) and Flyer
RV-6 Rebuilder and Flyer
RV-4 Builder
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sight Guage - UK Rules |
Thanks for the replies,
I've had some external feedback on this and it seems it's a grey area,
I'll see how I get on,
Steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356475#356475
Message 2
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| Subject: | Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 B - |
Classic)
Hi to all EUROPA friends
This is not my first post, but after 9 years the second or third one. Now
I'm doing the final works on my EUROPA Classic Kit No. 242 in order to get
it to the sky next year hopefully.
While I'm installing the 'stall warner' -Mod 61B- I'm faced with several
questions which EUROPA Aircraft Ltd. GB (Karen Ward) could not answer fully
yet.
Perhaps some of you who installed this Mod 61B already could help me on my
following questions:
1.) I know the instruction on Mod 61B-Classic says that the hole of the
stall warner should be 52'' (1321 mm) out from the aircraft centreline, so
far so good!
I actually would like to know whether this point 52'' is obligatory or
could it be 70''?? And if it must be 52'' what is the reason for this exact
point?? Does 70'' from the aircraft
centerline not work accurately? And why not? (Because I installed
already an empty tube to the 70" point at the beginning when manufacturing
the wing!!)
2.) I understand that a vacuum appears on a special point below the leading
edge if in stall configuration.
But to my past knowledge in air-pneumatics on the leading wing edges
there should still appear a pressure instead of a vacuum when the wing comes
to the stall. I looked
into many good aeronautical text books containing the theory of stall
characteristics but I always found a pressure there!?
I would like to understand the airflow = pressure or vacuum = on the
leading wing edge in stall configuration on our type of wing.
Could someone give me some hints, where I could see/read the
theoretical background on this subject? Perhaps on the internet?
3.) In the retrofit installation instruction (Mod 61b Classic) it calls at
page 5 for a 'W39 probe' to be installed at a special angle as per the 'hole
template'!
What kind of 'probe' is that? Is it just a small brass or aluminium
tube of 3 mm inside diameter, or is it a special manufactured 'probe' with a
sophisticated inside
configuration? Is it a must buying it, or could I manufacture it
myself?
Helpful hints would be appreciated.
Manfred Jann - Hamburg - Germany
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years |
Strong!!
Matt
Thanks for the details - I will be supporting as in previous years.
However, to add to the value I get from the forum, please can you send me
my log in details afresh so that I can log in from PCs other than my home
PC (which seems to have the details as a Cookie but invisible to me, and I
can't find them elsewhere)?
Many thanks
Richard Churchill-Coleman
On 1 November 2011 13:45, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> This year marks 21 years of the Email Lists and Forums at Matronics! I've
> been running these forums for nearly half my life! I've made some great
> friends over the years and had countless email and personal conversations
> with builders about aircraft building and flying. What a great community
> of people! The advice, support, and friendship has be invaluable over the
> years.
>
> To support the continued operation and upgrade of the List servers, each
> November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser. It is solely through the
> Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
> There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the
> conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics
> Email List email messages and web site pages including:
>
> * Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
>
> * Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search
>
> * Matronics List Browser
> http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
>
> * Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
>
> You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a
> List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - airplanes!
>
> During the month of November, I will be sending out List messages every
> couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask
> for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout
> these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support
> mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these
> Lists. Your personal Contribution counts!
>
> Once again, this year we've got another terrific line up of free gifts to
> go along with the various Contribution levels. Many of these gifts have
> been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on
> Matronics Lists and they have been either donated or provided at
> substantially discounted rates.
>
> This year, these generous people include:
>
> * Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection
> http://www.aeroelectric.com
>
> * Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
> http://www.buildersbooks.com
>
> These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their
> respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful
> aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, and
> Andy for their generous support of the Lists again this year!!
>
> You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods
> including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three
> methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts
> with a qualifying Contribution amount!!
>
> To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND
> moral support over the years!
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
> RV-8 Builder (and Rebuilder) and Flyer
> RV-6 Rebuilder and Flyer
> RV-4 Builder
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 |
B - Classic)
Manfred,
For what it's worth - my opinion.
>
> * *
>
> * 1/.) I know the instruction on Mod 61B-Classic says that the hole of
> the stall warner should be 52 (1321 mm) out from the aircraft
> centreline, so far so good!/*
>
> */ I actually would like to know whether this point 52 is obligatory
> or could it be 70?? And if it must be 52 what is the reason for
> this exact point?? Does 70 from the aircraft/*
>
> */ centerline not work accurately? And why not? (Because I installed
> already an empty tube to the 70 point at the beginning when
> manufacturing the wing!!)/*
>
Wing section at 70" has slightly lower angle of attack than wing section
at 52" and stalls a little later, but I think it will work perfectly
well. Actually, on new build the postion is at least 70" out on the wing
(past the flaps I remember) and in addition XS wing twist could be
greater than Classic wing twist (?).
>
> *//*
>
> */2.) I understand that a vacuum appears on a special point _below_
> the leading edge if in stall configuration. /*
>
> */ But to my past knowledge in air-pneumatics on the leading wing
> edges there should still appear a pressure instead of a vacuum when
> the wing comes to the stall. I looked /*
>
> */ into many /*good aeronautical text books containing the theory of
> stall characteristics but I always found a pressure there!?//
>
> */ I would like to understand the airflow = pressure or vacuum = on
> the leading wing edge in stall configuration on our type of wing./*
>
> */ Could someone give me some hints, where I could see/read the
> theoretical background on this subject? Perhaps on the internet?/*
>
At high angle of attack stagnation point (pressure = dynamic pressure)
moves to underside of wing. Somewhere just below leading edge pressure
drops to below static pressure.
Stagnation point: see attached.
Interesting book including stall warner explanation:
http://www.av8n.com/how/
>
> *//*
>
> */3.) In the retrofit installation instruction (Mod 61b Classic) it
> calls at page 5 for a _W39 probe_ to be installed at a special angle
> as per the hole template!/*
>
> */ What kind of probe is that? Is it just a small brass or aluminium
> tube of 3 mm inside diameter, or is it a special manufactured probe
> with a sophisticated inside/*
>
> */ configuration? Is it a must buying it, or could I manufacture it
> myself?/*
>
Must be just an installation aid - on new build the probe is nothing but
a 5052 aluminium tube.
Inside diameter 3 or 4 mm, 1 mm is enough. Will allow tuning the hole
position up/down somewhat later.
Regards,
Jan de Jong,
filling the canoe of #461
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 |
B - Classic)
Manfred,
Sorry, where I said dynamic pressure I should have said pitot pressure
or total pressure = static + dynamic pressure.
Jan de Jong
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 |
B - Classic)
Jan, I suspect that almost anywhere not in the prop wash and not close to
the tip would do. You end up by adjusting the pressure sensor head to sound
off at a chosen speed above the stall anyway and I guess that adjustment
would be valid anywhere in the central wing section. I suspect that the 52"
bit is the shortest length (to make retrofit as easy as possible) that is
reliably clear of prop effect.
Regards, david Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod
61 B - Classic)
> Manfred,
> For what it's worth - my opinion.
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * 1/.) I know the instruction on Mod 61B-Classic says that the hole of
>> the stall warner should be 52 (1321 mm) out from the aircraft
>> centreline, so far so good!/*
>>
>> */ I actually would like to know whether this point 52 is obligatory
>> or could it be 70?? And if it must be 52 what is the reason for
>> this exact point?? Does 70 from the aircraft/*
>>
>> */ centerline not work accurately? And why not? (Because I installed
>> already an empty tube to the 70 point at the beginning when
>> manufacturing the wing!!)/*
>>
> Wing section at 70" has slightly lower angle of attack than wing section
> at 52" and stalls a little later, but I think it will work perfectly
> well. Actually, on new build the postion is at least 70" out on the wing
> (past the flaps I remember) and in addition XS wing twist could be
> greater than Classic wing twist (?).
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> */2.) I understand that a vacuum appears on a special point _below_
>> the leading edge if in stall configuration. /*
>>
>> */ But to my past knowledge in air-pneumatics on the leading wing
>> edges there should still appear a pressure instead of a vacuum when
>> the wing comes to the stall. I looked /*
>>
>> */ into many /*good aeronautical text books containing the theory of
>> stall characteristics but I always found a pressure there!?//
>>
>> */ I would like to understand the airflow = pressure or vacuum = on
>> the leading wing edge in stall configuration on our type of wing./*
>>
>> */ Could someone give me some hints, where I could see/read the
>> theoretical background on this subject? Perhaps on the internet?/*
>>
> At high angle of attack stagnation point (pressure = dynamic pressure)
> moves to underside of wing. Somewhere just below leading edge pressure
> drops to below static pressure.
> Stagnation point: see attached.
> Interesting book including stall warner explanation:
> http://www.av8n.com/how/
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> */3.) In the retrofit installation instruction (Mod 61b Classic) it
>> calls at page 5 for a _W39 probe_ to be installed at a special angle
>> as per the hole template!/*
>>
>> */ What kind of probe is that? Is it just a small brass or aluminium
>> tube of 3 mm inside diameter, or is it a special manufactured probe
>> with a sophisticated inside/*
>>
>> */ configuration? Is it a must buying it, or could I manufacture it
>> myself?/*
>>
> Must be just an installation aid - on new build the probe is nothing but
> a 5052 aluminium tube.
> Inside diameter 3 or 4 mm, 1 mm is enough. Will allow tuning the hole
> position up/down somewhat later.
>
> Regards,
> Jan de Jong,
> filling the canoe of #461
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 |
B - Cl
I recently brought this mod and did it. Its just a short length of around 3.2 inside
dia tube with a smaller tube fixed in so the pvc tube goes on. The kit did
seem rather expensive seeing its just an RS sensor/switch but then the air
connectors are fairly pricey and Europa have to survive somehow. I didnt see the
point of providing the wire loom as each installl will be different.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356570#356570
Message 8
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| Subject: | Advice on Control Locks and Pitot / Static Covers |
Hi Everyone,
Can anyone advise where to acquire rudder control lock, pitot cover (2
pitots) and static cover (2 statics) for a europa?
Thanks,
-Carl.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod 61 |
B - Classic)
Manfred,
With respect to the classic wing, this location of 52" ensures that you do
not need to penetrate the rib which is located just beyond this distance.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan de Jong
Sent: 01 November 2011 16:20
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall warner-retrofit installation-classic (- Mod
61 B - Classic)
Manfred,
For what it's worth - my opinion.
>
> * *
>
> * 1/.) I know the instruction on Mod 61B-Classic says that the hole of
> the stall warner should be 52'' (1321 mm) out from the aircraft
> centreline, so far so good!/*
>
> */ I actually would like to know whether this point 52'' is obligatory
> or could it be 70''?? And if it must be 52'' what is the reason for
> this exact point?? Does 70'' from the aircraft/*
>
> */ centerline not work accurately? And why not? (Because I installed
> already an empty tube to the 70" point at the beginning when
> manufacturing the wing!!)/*
>
Wing section at 70" has slightly lower angle of attack than wing section
at 52" and stalls a little later, but I think it will work perfectly
well. Actually, on new build the postion is at least 70" out on the wing
(past the flaps I remember) and in addition XS wing twist could be
greater than Classic wing twist (?).
>
> *//*
>
> */2.) I understand that a vacuum appears on a special point _below_
> the leading edge if in stall configuration. /*
>
> */ But to my past knowledge in air-pneumatics on the leading wing
> edges there should still appear a pressure instead of a vacuum when
> the wing comes to the stall. I looked /*
>
> */ into many /*good aeronautical text books containing the theory of
> stall characteristics but I always found a pressure there!?//
>
> */ I would like to understand the airflow = pressure or vacuum = on
> the leading wing edge in stall configuration on our type of wing./*
>
> */ Could someone give me some hints, where I could see/read the
> theoretical background on this subject? Perhaps on the internet?/*
>
At high angle of attack stagnation point (pressure = dynamic pressure)
moves to underside of wing. Somewhere just below leading edge pressure
drops to below static pressure.
Stagnation point: see attached.
Interesting book including stall warner explanation:
http://www.av8n.com/how/
>
> *//*
>
> */3.) In the retrofit installation instruction (Mod 61b Classic) it
> calls at page 5 for a _'W39 probe'_ to be installed at a special angle
> as per the 'hole template'!/*
>
> */ What kind of 'probe' is that? Is it just a small brass or aluminium
> tube of 3 mm inside diameter, or is it a special manufactured 'probe'
> with a sophisticated inside/*
>
> */ configuration? Is it a must buying it, or could I manufacture it
> myself?/*
>
Must be just an installation aid - on new build the probe is nothing but
a 5052 aluminium tube.
Inside diameter 3 or 4 mm, 1 mm is enough. Will allow tuning the hole
position up/down somewhat later.
Regards,
Jan de Jong,
filling the canoe of #461
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years |
Strong!!
Dear Matt,
I would be more than pleased to contribute. So far I have not because
whenever I try to post a message it gets thrown back at me as "failing
Barracuda reputation" or some similar phrase. They usually get through when
I post them from the States (as now) but not from home in the UK.
I and several others suffer this problem and have written to this effect but
nothing ever changes.
Pete Jeffers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: 01 November 2011 13:46
Subject: Europa-List: PLEASE READ - 2011 List Fund Raiser Kickoff - 21 Years
Strong!!
Dear Listers,
This year marks 21 years of the Email Lists and Forums at Matronics! I've
been running these forums for nearly half my life! I've made some great
friends over the years and had countless email and personal conversations
with builders about aircraft building and flying. What a great community of
people! The advice, support, and friendship has be invaluable over the
years.
To support the continued operation and upgrade of the List servers, each
November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser. It is solely through the
Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible.
There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the
conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics
Email List email messages and web site pages including:
* Matronics List Forums http://forums.matronics.com
* Matronics List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search
* Matronics List Browser http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
* Matronics List List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com
You don't find advertising on any of these pages because I believe in a List
experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - airplanes!
During the month of November, I will be sending out List messages every
couple of days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask
for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout
these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism
I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these Lists. Your
personal Contribution counts!
Once again, this year we've got another terrific line up of free gifts to go
along with the various Contribution levels. Many of these gifts have been
provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on
Matronics Lists and they have been either donated or provided at
substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include:
* Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection
http://www.aeroelectric.com
* Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their
respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful
aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, and Andy
for their generous support of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods
including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three
methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts
with a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND
moral support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-8 Builder (and Rebuilder) and Flyer
RV-6 Rebuilder and Flyer
RV-4 Builder
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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