Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 11/11/11


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:15 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
     1. 04:14 AM - EURO02 part supplied wrong (Rowland Carson)
     2. 08:01 AM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (Carl Meek)
     3. 08:37 AM - Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong (Jan de Jong)
     4. 09:03 AM - Tie down points (Max Cointe)
     5. 09:36 AM - Re: Tie down points (Bob Harrison)
     6. 09:40 AM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (PHILLIPS I)
     7. 09:49 AM - Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong (flyingphil2)
     8. 09:49 AM - Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong (flyingphil2)
     9. 09:57 AM - Re: Tie down points (kees de bussy)
    10. 10:30 AM - Re: Tie down points (Jeff B)
    11. 10:41 AM - Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong (Greg Fuchs)
    12. 11:18 AM - Re: Tie down points (Bob Harrison)
    13. 01:38 PM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (Neville Eyre)
    14. 02:27 PM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (Richard Wheelwright)
    15. 02:42 PM - Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong (Rowland Carson)
    16. 04:04 PM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (Frans Veldman)
    17. 04:20 PM - Re: Europa Finger Brakes (Kingsley Hurst)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:15:51 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
    Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 04:14:35 AM PST US
    From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
    Subject: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    I'm just about to assemble the pitch push-rod, but I find that the EURO02 parts supplied are not as required. The parts list calls out set-screws (ie fully-threaded) but what's in the (as yet unopened) packet is bolts (ie part-threaded). It will be impossible to use these for the pushrod ends as the check nuts need to run right down near the heads to lock onto the CS17 parts. I've phoned the factory but am getting no answer. If I don't get a reply to my message soon, does anyone know what the specification of the 5/16"-24 x 2" set-screws is? I suspect they are not just off-the-shelf UNF but may be HT or other higher spec. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:01:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
    Thanks for the advice, I've just come from the airfield having done a bit more investigation. Attached is a picture of my master cylinder, apparently it's a "New Jamar finger brake controller all filled with DOT5.1 fluid filled from the wheels as per the build book" Apparently I have "Matco 5 inch discs on the wheels with new seals fitted." I just popped the cover off the levers to look at the master cylinders and there are A LOT of very large bubbles in the left hand tube leading out of the master cylinder. I have just bought a bleeding kit and some 5.1 and will try to sort it out tomorrow, I'm just worried there is a leak or something =AD as it was fine last week but absolutely terrible now.. Do you think a simple bleed from the LH calliper will do the job? Regards, -Carl. From: <duanefamly@aol.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes Describe the type of master cylinder you have as well as the type wheel cylinders. There have been a few master cylinders of inferior quality experienced by several builders. Mike Duane -----Original Message----- From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm Subject: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes Can I just get a bit of advice from anyone with finger brakes fitted? Mine seem to be a bit odd. Firstly, if i just pull a single one of them it will hit the stop, whereas if i pull them both they have more feel and don' t hit the stop quite so much, however they seem to respond better with a bit of pumping first. Essentially I'm saying that they appear to be substandard, need pumping to work properly, and even then pulling just one doesn't seem to work well. Any thoughts on what could be wrong? An engineer investigated it but couldn't find anything wrong - he checked they were bled and suchlike, he then reported it was caused by the fact the master cylinders were not big enough for the callipers so they need pumping. _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.buildersbooks.com> >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:37:52 AM PST US
    From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
    Subject: Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    Rowland, I'm close behind you (a race of snails?) and went to check my EUR002 screws. And I share your problem. Kit 461 was also supplied with bolts instead of screws. I'll be interested in your solution. Regards, Jan de Jong


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:03:19 AM PST US
    From: "Max Cointe" <mcointe@free.fr>
    Subject: Tie down points
    Hi there all ! The builder of F-PMLH didn't include tie down points and I'm not ready to open the wings to fix a hook. What something invented to hold the plane on ground on a windy airfield? Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 400 hours


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:36:19 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Tie down points
    Hi! Max I have put a long eye bolt through the slab of metal in the outboard end of the flap hinge so the eye just protrudes through the large speed kit fairing .on each wing. Similarly you could put an eye bolt into the re-enforcing in the tail where the old tail when spring was to be mounted.. I actually use the tail wheel spring since I need it to winch the aircraft intp the trailor . I tell folks it is my arrester hook for landing on my aircraft carrier! I wish !.................. Regards Bob Harrison.G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Max Cointe Sent: 11 November 2011 17:00 Subject: Europa-List: Tie down points Hi there all ! The builder of F-PMLH didn't include tie down points and I'm not ready to open the wings to fix a hook. What something invented to hold the plane on ground on a windy airfield? Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 400 hours


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:40:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    From: PHILLIPS I <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
    *Carl* *Not wishing to be a party pooper don=92t use Dot 5.1 Brake fluid in your system,* *Dot 5.1 is a glycol base brake fluid and is not suitable for the seals in the Brake valve* *And callipers, I have had two Jaymar cylinders and both were a problem even after* *A complete strip/clean and seal replacement,* *Last year I through them out and fitted the twin matco cylinders using normal aviation* *Hydraulic oil or ATF, also replaced the calliper and brake valve with the Buna seals and had no problems since, * *The only fluid combatable with both types of seals is * *Silicone Dot 5* * * *If you check the archive there is a great deals of information about this very subject, I personally do not like the silicone fluid So changed all my seals to EPDM and used DOT 5.1 Glycol based fluid, That was Until the Jaymars Gave up the ghost, So replace all my seals with Buna/N and fitted the Matco Master cylinders using Standard Aviation hydraulic oil, It all works fine now* * * * * * * * * *DOT MINIMUM BOILING POINT SPECIFICATIONS * *Fluid Type:* *Glycol-based Fluids* *Silicone Fluid* *DOT3* *DOT4* *DOT5.1* *DOT5* *Minimum Dry Boiling Point1* *205 =B0C/401 =B0F * *230=B0C/ 446 =B0F* *~270 =B0C/518 =B0F* *230 =B0C/500 =B0F* *Minimum Wet Boiling Point2* *140 =B0C /284 =B0F * *155=B0C /311 =B0F * *~190 =B0C/375 =B0F* *180 =B0C /356 =B0F3* 1 Dry fluid is with no water content as from a freshly opened container. 2 Wet fluids is with 3.5% water content typical of glycol-based fluids after 24 months use. 3 The wet boiling point for the DOT 5 fluid is the DOT specification. The silicone fluid absorbs a very small amount of water (<0.3%) so the boiling point doesn't change with use and one can expect the boiling point to remain at ~ 230 =B0C/500 =B0F for many years. * * *Regards* * * *Ivor Phillips* *G-IVER* On 11 November 2011 15:57, Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the advice, I've just come from the airfield having done a > bit more investigation. > > Attached is a picture of my master cylinder, apparently it's a "New Jamar > finger brake controller all filled with DOT5.1 fluid filled from the whee ls > as per the build book" > Apparently I have "Matco 5 inch discs on the wheels with new seals > fitted." > > I just popped the cover off the levers to look at the master cylinders an d > there are A LOT of very large bubbles in the left hand tube leading out o f > the master cylinder. > > I have just bought a bleeding kit and some 5.1 and will try to sort it ou t > tomorrow, I'm just worried there is a leak or something ' as it was fin e > last week but absolutely terrible now.. > > Do you think a simple bleed from the LH calliper will do the job? > > Regards, > -Carl. > > From: <duanefamly@aol.com> > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:16:54 -0500 (EST) > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes > > Describe the type of master cylinder you have as well as the type wheel > cylinders. There have been a few master cylinders of inferior quality > experienced by several builders. > > Mike Duane > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com> > To: europa-list <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm > Subject: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes > > Can I just get a bit of advice from anyone with finger brakes fitted? > > Mine seem to be a bit odd. Firstly, if i just pull a single one of them > it will hit the stop, whereas if i pull them both they have more feel and > don't hit the stop quite so much, however they seem to respond better wit h > a bit of pumping first. > > Essentially I'm saying that they appear to be substandard, need pumping t o > work properly, and even then pulling just one doesn't seem to work well. > > Any thoughts on what could be wrong? An engineer investigated it but > couldn't find anything wrong - he checked they were bled and suchlike, he > then reported it was caused by the fact the master cylinders were not big > enough for the callipers so they need pumping. > > * > > _blank>www.aeroelectric.com > /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com > =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > ic.comw.buildersbooks.comthelp.comronics.com/contribution > //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > comronics.com/contribution > * > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:49:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller@lolacars.com>
    I had the same problem a while ago and John Wheeler acknowledged that there had been an incorrect supply of these bolts. He sent me some new ones out free of charge. It's important not to source these yourself unless you know exactly what the requirements are as they are just ever so slightly important! Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357532#357532


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:49:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller@lolacars.com>
    I had the same problem a while ago and John Wheeler acknowledged that there had been an incorrect supply of these bolts. He sent me some new ones out free of charge. Do not try to source these yourself unless you know exactly what the requirements are as they are just ever so slightly important! Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357533#357533


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:57:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tie down points
    From: "kees de bussy" <keesdebussy@hotmail.com>
    Hi Max, My plane has no tie-down points either. I now use small clamps which are mounted between the ailerons and the wingtips. But I am not very happy with this solution because this part of the wing is not reinforced. I also don't want to open the wings. So I consider to make some tie-down points direct to the spar near the bell-crank. To do so I will remove the bell-rank inspection windows. This way I do not need to open the wings. I would also like to hear comments on this idea or get other suggestions. Kees de Bussy PH-SBR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357534#357534


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:30:32 AM PST US
    From: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Tie down points
    Max, I fashioned a simple plate that I attached to the outside wing bracket. Picture attached (if it comes through). It survived the tornadoes at Sun-n-Fun this spring, unscathed, when a lot of other aircraft did not. Jeff - Baby Blue On 11/11/2011 10:59 AM, Max Cointe wrote: > Hi there all ! > > The builder of F-PMLH didnt include tie down points and Im not ready > to open the wings to fix a hook. What something invented to hold the > plane on ground on a windy airfield? > > Max Cointe > > F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 > > 912ULS Airmaster 400 hours > > * > > > *


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:41:00 AM PST US
    From: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
    Subject: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    This happened to me as well. I got replacements to these important bolts from Europa in the same fashion as Phil. Greg --> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> I'm just about to assemble the pitch push-rod, but I find that the EURO02 parts supplied are not as required. The parts list calls out set-screws (ie fully-threaded) but what's in the (as yet unopened) packet is bolts (ie part-threaded).


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:18:15 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Tie down points
    Hi! All I'm sorry about my standard of message and I have corrected it below, hopefully those whose Mother Tongue isn't English can now understand it.? Regards Bob Harrison From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: 11 November 2011 17:33 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tie down points Hi! Max I have put a long eye bolt through the slab of metal in the outboard end of the flap hinge so the eye just protrudes through the large speed kit fairing .on each wing. Similarly you could put an eye bolt into the re-enforcing in the tail where the old tail WHEEL spring was to be mounted.. I actually use the mono tail wheel spring since I need it to winch the aircraft into the trailor (. I tell folks it is my arrester hook for landing on my aircraft carrier I wish!) However the spring has saved my rudder during countless bounces on landing and take offs . ................. Suitable eye bolts can be sourced at yacht chandlers usually in stainless material. Regards Bob Harrison.G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Max Cointe Sent: 11 November 2011 17:00 Subject: Europa-List: Tie down points Hi there all ! The builder of F-PMLH didn't include tie down points and I'm not ready to open the wings to fix a hook. What something invented to hold the plane on ground on a windy airfield? Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 400 hours


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:38:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    From: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>
    Hi, If you have the Jamar master cylinder, this is what you have to do...... Lay out some clean paper on your bench, remove the Jamar unit from the plan e and disassemble the unit, keep all the seals / springs / pushrods etc in the correct order, laid out on the clean paper. Take a close look at the quality of all the parts.... this is about as poor as anything could ever be made ! Wrap all the parts up in the paper and lo b it in the bin ! You could invest a lot of time in cleaning the buffing soap [ that was used to put the BS shine on the outside ] from the inside, and polish the machi ning marks from the bores, clean the soap from the tranverse bore between t he two cylinders, ease the diameter and radius the edge of the nylon washer s and try to make something out of it, but from experience you can spend a lot of time that rarely gives you something you would want to put in an Air craft. Two options. 1. Fit Matco cylinders, top quality, very expensive but will work. Can stil l be a bear to bleed, but you can use the red [ cherryade] brake fluid that every Aircraft Maintenence Facility has .... 2.Use two of the Kart master cylinders as fitted to the Mono Europa and ori ginal Trigear [ foot brakes ], you will need to make longer levers [ to get mechanical advantage] BUT there are two kinds of seals / O rings around, o ne sort is suitable for Dot 3,[ as supplied for the Mono] which works with the Europa caliper, the other is for the cherryade that works with the Matc o caliper. Trouble is you can't tell the difference by looking at them, if used in the wrong fluid, they expand / go squishy. Europa have a stock of these that they don't know which type they are, so n o help there. You CAN use Silicone Dot 5 with both the master cylinders and the Calipers, but it is damn awful stuff, very thick [ so is a bitch to bleed] and if yo u get any on paintwork [ or God forbid unpainted structure] you will never get anything to really get it off. Only one good place for Silicone, that i s where Dolly Parton / Pamela Anderson has it ! Bleeding the set up with the Kart cylinders is a breeze, big [Large Vet's syringe] bit of model fuel tube stuffed over the bleed nipple, bung out of the Master cylinder, crack open the nipple, squirt the fuid in, have someon e peek at the bung hole, when it comes to the top, job done 5 minutes a sid e Max. Down side ? As the pads wear you need to top up the fluid, but simpl e as you just need to dribble it in the bung hole to the bottom of the thre ads. You might be able to use the Jamar unit as the lever / baseplate and graft the Kart cylinders on to that ? I will have a look tomorrow on the feasabil ity of that.That would save a lot of mucking about. Cheers, Nev -----Original Message----- From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com> Sent: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:02 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes Thanks for the advice, I've just come from the airfield having done a bit m ore investigation. Attached is a picture of my master cylinder, apparently it's a "New Jamar f inger brake controller all filled with DOT5.1 fluid filled from the wheels as per the build book" Apparently I have "Matco 5 inch discs on the wheels with new seals fitted." I just popped the cover off the levers to look at the master cylinders and there are A LOT of very large bubbles in the left hand tube leading out of the master cylinder. I have just bought a bleeding kit and some 5.1 and will try to sort it out tomorrow, I'm just worried there is a leak or something =93 as it was fine last week but absolutely terrible now.. Do you think a simple bleed from the LH calliper will do the job? Regards, -Carl. From: <duanefamly@aol.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes Describe the type of master cylinder you have as well as the type wheel cyl inders. There have been a few master cylinders of inferior quality experien ced by several builders. Mike Duane -----Original Message----- From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm Subject: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes Can I just get a bit of advice from anyone with finger brakes fitted? Mine seem to be a bit odd. Firstly, if i just pull a single one of them it will hit the stop, whereas if i pull them both they have more feel and don 't hit the stop quite so much, however they seem to respond better with a b it of pumping first. Essentially I'm saying that they appear to be substandard, need pumping to work properly, and even then pulling just one doesn't seem to work well. Any thoughts on what could be wrong? An engineer investigated it but could n't find anything wrong - he checked they were bled and suchlike, he then r eported it was caused by the fact the master cylinders were not big enough for the callipers so they need pumping. _blank>www.aeroelectric.com " target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com _blank>www.homebuilthelp.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ://forums.matronics.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ic.com .buildersbooks.com help.com onics.com/contribution /www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List om onics.com/contribution


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:27:32 PM PST US
    From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    =C2-I used Nev's method of the Kart Cylinders and it is perfect.=C2-=0A =C2-=0ANev you always give the perfect answer to a question " Thanx Nev" :-)=0A=C2-=0A=0A=================== ==0A=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A============== =======0A=0AFrom: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>=0ATo: europa -list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, 11 November 2011, 21:35=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes=0A=0A=0AHi,=0AIf you have the Jamar maste r cylinder, this is what you have to do......=0ALay out some clean paper on your bench, remove the Jamar unit from the plane and disassemble the unit, keep all the seals / springs / pushrods etc in the correct order, laid out on the clean paper.=0ATake a close look at the quality of all the parts... . this is about as poor as anything could ever be made ! Wrap all the parts up in the paper and lob it in the bin !=0AYou could invest a lot of time i n cleaning=C2-the buffing soap [ that was used to put the BS shine on the outside ] from the inside, and polish the machining marks from the bores, clean the soap from the tranverse bore between the two cylinders, ease the diameter and radius the edge of the nylon washers and try to make something out of it, but from experience you can spend a lot of time that rarely giv es you something you would want to put in an Aircraft.=0ATwo options.=0A1. =C2-Fit Matco cylinders, top quality, very expensive but will work. Can s till be a bear to bleed, but you can use the red [ cherryade] brake fluid t hat every Aircraft Maintenence Facility has ....=0A2.Use two of the Kart ma ster cylinders as fitted to the Mono Europa and original Trigear [ foot bra kes ], you will need to make longer levers [ to get mechanical advantage] =C2-BUT there are two kinds of seals / O rings around, one sort is suitab le for Dot 3,[ as supplied for the Mono] which works with the Europa calipe r,=C2-the other is for the cherryade that works with the Matco caliper. T rouble is you can't tell the difference by looking at them, if used in the wrong fluid, they expand / go squishy.=0AEuropa have a stock of these that they don't know which type they are, so no help there.=0AYou CAN use Silico ne Dot 5 with both the master cylinders and the Calipers, but it is damn aw ful stuff, very thick [ so is=C2-a bitch to bleed] and if you get any on paintwork [ or God forbid unpainted structure] you will never get anything to really get it off. Only one good place for Silicone, that is where Dolly Parton / Pamela Anderson has it !=0A=C2-Bleeding the set up with the Kar t cylinders is a breeze, big [Large Vet's syringe] bit of model fuel tube s tuffed over the bleed nipple, bung out of the Master cylinder, crack open t he nipple, squirt the fuid in, have someone peek at the bung hole, when it comes to the top, job done 5 minutes a side Max. Down side ? As the pads we ar you need to top up the fluid, but simple as you just need to dribble it in the bung hole to the bottom of the threads.=0AYou might be able to use t he Jamar unit as the lever / baseplate and graft the Kart cylinders on to t hat ? I will have a look tomorrow on the feasability of that.That would sav e a lot of mucking about.=0ACheers,=0ANev=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message- ----=0AFrom: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list <europa-list@ matronics.com>=0ASent: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:02=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: E uropa Finger Brakes=0A=0A=0AThanks for the advice, I've just come from the airfield having done a bit more investigation.=0A=0AAttached is a picture o f my master cylinder, apparently it's a "New Jamar finger brake controller all filled with DOT5.1 fluid filled from the wheels as per the build book" =0AApparently I have "Matco 5 inch discs on the wheels with new seals fitte d."=0A=0AI just popped the cover off the levers to look at the master cylin ders and there are A LOT of very large bubbles in the left hand tube leadin g out of the master cylinder.=0A=0AI have just bought a bleeding kit and so me 5.1 and will try to sort it out tomorrow, I'm just worried there is a le ak or something =93 as it was fine last week but absolutely terrible now..=0A=0ADo you think a simple bleed from the LH calliper will do the job ist@matronics.com>=0ADate: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 23:16:54 -0500 (EST)=0ATo: <eur opa-list@matronics.com>=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brakes=0A =0ADescribe the type of master cylinder you have as well as the type wheel cylinders. There have been a few master cylinders of inferior quality exper ienced by several builders.=0A=0AMike Duane=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2-=0A-----Origin al Message-----=0AFrom: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list <e uropa-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm=0ASubject: Eur opa-List: Europa Finger Brakes=0A=0A=0ACan I just get a bit of advice from anyone with finger brakes fitted?=0A=0AMine seem to be a bit odd.=C2- Fir stly, if i just pull a single one of them it will hit the stop, whereas if i pull them both they have more feel and don't hit the stop quite so much, however they seem to respond better with a bit of pumping first.=0A=0AEssen tially I'm saying that they appear to be substandard, need pumping to work properly, and even then pulling just one doesn't seem to work well.=0A=0AAn y thoughts on what could be wrong?=C2- An engineer investigated it but co uldn't find anything wrong - he checked they were bled and suchlike, he the n reported it was caused by the fact the master cylinders were not big enou gh for the callipers so they need pumping.=0A_blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blan k>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matr onics.com/contribution =0Aic.comw.buildersbooks.comthelp.comronics .com/contribution//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List comronics. =======


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:42:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: EURO02 part supplied wrong
    From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
    On 11 Nov 2011, at 16:35, Jan de Jong wrote: > > Rowland, > > I'm close behind you (a race of snails?) and went to check my EUR002 screws. > And I share your problem. Kit 461 was also supplied with bolts instead of screws. > I'll be interested in your solution. > > Regards, > Jan de Jong Jan - Mike McClean at Europa read my e-mail posting and is getting the right screws sent to me on Monday. Good service! in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson


    Message 16


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    Time: 04:04:07 PM PST US
    From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    On 11/11/2011 04:57 PM, Carl Meek wrote: > Attached is a picture of my master cylinder, apparently it's a "New > Jamar finger brake controller all filled with DOT5.1 fluid filled from > the wheels as per the build book" DOT5.1 is not per the book. The book says 5.0. You might think that 5.1 is an upgrade of 5.0, but it is not, it is entirely different stuff. Apart from that, the Jamar brakes are rubbish. My kit came with the Jamar cylinders, after spending almost a frustrating week in futile attempts to bleed them and to get these things working, I tossed them out and replaced them by Matco cylinders. Bleeding was then a piece of cake and the brake system now works like a charm. I'm glad I never flew with the Jamar cylinders but got rid of them just in time. > I just popped the cover off the levers to look at the master cylinders > and there are A LOT of very large bubbles in the left hand tube leading > out of the master cylinder. I have been there. Forget about getting these bubbles away. I pumped almost a full can of DOT5.0 through these things but the bubbles never went away. Now you have used DOT 5.1 instead of DOT 5.0, you have probably destroyed the seals. Don't bother fixing them, toss the whole thing out and replace them by Matco's and fill the system with red aircraft hydraulic fluid. Frans


    Message 17


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    Time: 04:20:04 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa Finger Brakes
    From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
    On 12/11/2011, at 8:24 AM, Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk> w rote: > Nev you always give the perfect answer to a question " Thanx Nev" :-) Couldn't agree more Richard ...... even answered my questions about Dolly an d Pamela and I didn't even ask!! <g> Cheers Kingsley Do not archive Sent from my iPhone




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