Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 11/15/11


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:19 AM - What's Your Contribution Used For?  (Matt Dralle)
     1. 12:27 AM - Re: brake fluid (Neville Eyre)
     2. 07:40 AM - SV: Re: "Flight into known icing conditions prohibited" (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
     3. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( (Raimo Toivio)
     4. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( (William Daniell)
     5. 12:54 PM - Re: Low Voltage (Troy Maynor)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:19:17 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
    Dear Listers, You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for over 21 years (yeah, I really said *21* years) worth of on line archive data available for instant search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these aspects of Matronics List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 12:27:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: brake fluid
    From: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>
    Hi Rowland, Master cylinders supplied with the Mono Kit, and the Europa caliper are set up to use Dot 3 and Dot 4 fluid, no reason to try anything else. Silicone Dot 5 will work, but no good reason to use that over 3 / 4. Cherryade will attack those seals, no idea what 5.1 will do ? The Matco calipers, as supplied in the Trigear Kit, are set up for cherryad e. The ''footbrake'' Trigear Kit will have the standard ''Monowheel spec' mast er cylinders'' and a replacement set of seals and washers to convert the ma ster cylinders to be used with the Matco calipers [ which are set up for ch erryade ]. The stock of these seals at Europa are loose and unmarked, no one knows whi ch ones they are? My suggestion to them to dispose of the seals, and start again went unheede d. So in short Rowland, bin the 5.1, fill with 3 / 4 when you are ready.. Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> Sent: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:27 Subject: Europa-List: brake fluid All the recent postings about appropriate fluids for the tri-gear finger-br akes as prompted me to think about what is OK for the monowheel brake system. I' m sing the standard Europa parts. My journal shows that, when fitting it, I leaned up & lubricated my master cylinder with Castrol Girling Universal SA E 1703 (which appears to be DOT3), and later I bought a can of DOT5.1 with wh ich o fill the system (when I get that far). I note Neville's enthusiasm for the red aircraft grade brake fluid (what's the roper name for that? Can I get it from LAS, for instance?) but also that uropa-supplied seals may be an unknown quantity with respect to what fluid they ike. Is there any way (other than soaking them in a sample of fluid) to determin e hat seals I've got in my master cylinder and in my brake calipers? If the seals held in stock by Europa are not identifiable, where else could one et seals properly identified as to type of fluid for (a) the monowheel mast er ylinder and (b) the monowheel calipers? in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -========================


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:40:25 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Re: "Flight into known icing conditions prohibited"
    Here is another photo that I should have attached yesterday - says more than a thousand words. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:15:18 AM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The
    Winner( Dear Frans, Remi, Brian and all who were interested Thank you for your Very interesting messages (they are below). During last three days my engine (912S) has got his 250 hrs service (in fact 50 hrs service only) + max and full care inspection because of the topic: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle. Before that (after my hazard and when changing sparks only) I had flown flawlessly 2 hrs 25 minutes w/o any problems and The Engine has performed great. The inspection and service was completed w the best pros in Finland available (I was there also, just looking behind their shoulders, do not worry). 1) Engine is like a new one and between The Factory Limits and Measurements excluding following 2) Right carburrettor, 2nd float, "some" material has "obviously" separated, gone and disappearred somewhere. - pls notice: these floats have checked last spring when completed 200 hrs engine service. They looked like ok then but did not checked very carefully, of course. - that little "separated" part could be also a malfunction of production, maybe it has never been there 3) That blue colored spark plug was really totally dead (it was NGK R DCPR8E) What ideas we got? A) if some part of the float separated during the flight it could have blocked partially fuel flow. After case it could have gone through the system and no problems anymore. If that is so, changeing sparks meaned nothing - a new start up the engine meaned. If that is so, please check your floats. For your information, there was a Service Bulletin about 15 years ago about those floats. I have not checked it so far (and that should be nothing in my case [engine 2006] but who ever knows). B) this case is a bit embarrassing but I am brave enough to report it to you (could be worth of it for some of you). We tried the engine with that broken spark. As Remi writed A single misfiring spark plug on one cylinder cannot cause the high level of vibration I have experienced. Confirmed. It cannot. I tried. But, what if (after checking the mags) I took off with one magneto only! And loosed one spark just after take-off. Then I had only three sparks! I have to say - I tried it today - and the The Vibras were very known. I have been there. If that is really so, I flied about one hour with three sparks only (there was a heavy head wind but I still was wondering where all the power has gone). That is also the well known CS prop syndrom: The RPMs are fixed: it is not so obvious to see engine limitations. *** What can I say: * check out your floats in the carburrettor chambers (well, Rotax owners at least) ** double check before take-off you have selected dual magnetos: if you loose one spark w two magnetos you will not notice but if you loose one spark with one magneto you will surely notice. And that will vibra you! I have a Cessna type key operated magneto. It is not so easy to see what magneto(s) is (are) valid: A, B or Both. If you are building a plane, have two separate switches. They are easy to confirm; both upp (and a secure latch down)! I took off after sunset and was a bit hurry and maybe also more all less nervous. That is a typical start upp for a chain which will easily lead up to the accident. In my case, what about loosing 1/4 spark during take-off - that was a very short grass strip. *** if you have engine problems during a flight try always magnetos. That is what you have learnt when flying your PPL. I did not by purposely but I was (maybe) wrong. _____________________ Trying to be a better pilot. A flight today was a last one I think until a year or even more has gone and the new season 2012 will begin... _____________________ The Competition has got The Winners - there are three of them. I will publish The Names of The Winners ( I assume I am free to do that ) very soon. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 258,15 /466 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Brian Davies Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 2:20 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( <brian.davies@clara.co.uk> Following on from Remi's post, it might be worth following the recent blog on the Rotax Owners website. A Rotax 912 owner suffered a partial fuel blockage to one carb that only showed itself under high power conditions- and then only intermittently. In your case, if you have a partial fuel flow problem to one carb, reducing fuel flow by changing power settings could make the symptoms disappear. Worth checking? Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: 19 October 2011 10:02 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( --> <air.guerner@orange.fr> Hi Raimo, As an engineer who has been working two decades for a spark plug company, I want to add a few thoughts about your engine problem: A misfiring spark plug, cannot cause detonation. A single misfiring spark plug on one cylinder cannot cause the high level of vibration you have experienced. There are only two cases where a spark plug can cause detonation: the first one is if you are using a spark plug with a too hot heat rating. In this case, the nose core and the center electrode of the spark plug becomes red hot and ignite the fuel mixture even without a spark. The second case is when the spark plug is not torqued enough, becomes loose so that the heat transfer from the shell to the cylinder head is limited, causing the spark plug to become very hot. Both cases will cause preignition and possible detonation. I assume you were using the right spark plug type and that your blue spark plug was found to be tighten correctly. So in my opinion, the very hot blue spark plug you got was not the cause but the consequence of another phenomenon, probably preignition and/or detonation, caused by something else. The two main causes of detonation are: a too lean mixture and a too low octane fuel. This is were I would direct my investigation. Preignition and detonation may seriously damage all combustion chamber parts such as piston, rings, and valves. After such a problem I would ground the aircraft until the root cause is found, and I would carefully check the above parts for damage. Before removing the cylinder, I would perform a compression check and a boroscope inspection of the combustion chamber. Hope that helps. Remi Guerner F-PGKL <frans@privatepilots.nl> On 10/18/2011 03:58 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > I have earlier forgot to mention one thing: when > I tried to increase > power by moving a power lever forward, I got > significantly less power! This is a weird thing. Maybe the carb slide was stuck after all, so opening the throttle further would result in a leaner mixture. A leaner mixture burns hotter and slower. Maybe that caused the spark plug to fail. Another option is that you had a hidden problem: One spark plug lead cross coupled from another cylinder (so it was firing when the piston was at one of its lower positions), maybe due to a short circuit between two spark plug cables. The interesting thing is that nothing bad happens as long as the correct spark plug fires, because for the one with the wrong timing there is nothing left to ignite and it sparks into a non-combustible void. But then as soon as the correct plug fails, the mixture will be ignited by the remaining spark plug which fires at the wrong time, and the burning mixture works against the up-moving piston. This will also heat the spark plugs and cause a hell of a vibration. > The spark plug head was blue, you remember? Precisely. > I think it has been very hot. Maybe because it > was totally short > circuited. No, you can't get it hot by short circuiting it. Ignition has a very high voltage but low amperage. Total energy is very low, way to low to even warm the plug. > Also, I assume the coils are somehow connected > together. I mean, a > missfiring in one spark and in one cylinder, > could it also disturb > another one (spark /cylinder) ??? If so, that > means more vibra. I think you really have to carefully check the whole ignition and carbs. I wouldn't fly it anymore until this is done. I know it runs ok now, but maybe there was a reason why the spark plug failed, and if this reason still exists it will happen again. As far as I can tell, the whole situation is not what you would get with just a faulty spark plug. > Anyway - this is quite an unusual think to > happen. Sure it is. Therefore, dig to the root of it before flying it again. Frans Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355494#355494 browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin.


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:27:50 AM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The
    Winner( Brave man to fess up -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 15 November, 2011 14:12 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle /The Solution /The Winner( Dear Frans, Remi, Brian and all who were interested Thank you for your Very interesting messages (they are below). During last three days my engine (912S) has got his 250 hrs service (in fact 50 hrs service only) + max and full care inspection because of the topic: Heavy In-flight Vibration Riddle. Before that (after my hazard and when changing sparks only) I had flown flawlessly 2 hrs 25 minutes w/o any problems and The Engine has performed great. The inspection and service was completed w the best pros in Finland available (I was there also, just looking behind their shoulders, do not worry). 1) Engine is like a new one and between The Factory Limits and Measurements excluding following 2) Right carburrettor, 2nd float, "some" material has "obviously" separated, gone and disappearred somewhere. - pls notice: these floats have checked last spring when completed 200 hrs engine service. They looked like ok then but did not checked very carefully, of course. - that little "separated" part could be also a malfunction of production, maybe it has never been there 3) That blue colored spark plug was really totally dead (it was NGK R DCPR8E) What ideas we got? A) if some part of the float separated during the flight it could have blocked partially fuel flow. After case it could have gone through the system and no problems anymore. If that is so, changeing sparks meaned nothing - a new start up the engine meaned. If that is so, please check your floats. For your information, there was a Service Bulletin about 15 years ago about those floats. I have not checked it so far (and that should be nothing in my case [engine 2006] but who ever knows). B) this case is a bit embarrassing but I am brave enough to report it to you (could be worth of it for some of you). We tried the engine with that broken spark. As Remi writed A single misfiring spark plug on one cylinder cannot cause the high level of vibration I have experienced. Confirmed. It cannot. I tried. But, what if (after checking the mags) I took off with one magneto only! And loosed one spark just after take-off. Then I had only three sparks! I have to say - I tried it today - and the The Vibras were very known. I have been there. If that is really so, I flied about one hour with three sparks only (there was a heavy head wind but I still was wondering where all the power has gone). That is also the well known CS prop syndrom: The RPMs are fixed: it is not so obvious to see engine limitations. *** What can I say: * check out your floats in the carburrettor chambers (well, Rotax owners at least) ** double check before take-off you have selected dual magnetos: if you loose one spark w two magnetos you will not notice but if you loose one spark with one magneto you will surely notice. And that will vibra you! I have a Cessna type key operated magneto. It is not so easy to see what magneto(s) is (are) valid: A, B or Both. If you are building a plane, have two separate switches. They are easy to confirm; both upp (and a secure latch down)! I took off after sunset and was a bit hurry and maybe also more all less nervous. That is a typical start upp for a chain which will easily lead up to the accident. In my case, what about loosing 1/4 spark during take-off - that was a very short grass strip. *** if you have engine problems during a flight try always magnetos. That is what you have learnt when flying your PPL. I did not by purposely but I was (maybe) wrong. _____________________ Trying to be a better pilot. A flight today was a last one I think until a year or even more has gone and the new season 2012 will begin... _____________________ The Competition has got The Winners - there are three of them. I will publish The Names of The Winners ( I assume I am free to do that ) very soon. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 258,15 /466 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:54:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Low Voltage
    From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
    Hey Folks, Just wanted to say I fixed my low voltage problem. It turned out to be the regulator. I checked all connections having anything to do with the charging system,(most anyway). Then having a spare in my cross country box, I put it in and ran it and all is well again. Like I said, I have about 125 hours on it. I MAY have shortened it's life one day during shutdown when I turned off the master before the engine, not sure. The battery was actually 2 and half years old. The Odessey literature states only a two year warranty on the battery. Thanks for all your help. This once more proves the great worth of this forum. Need to make my contribution to Matt. Troy Maynor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358053#358053




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