Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 09:25 AM - Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec 1! (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:27 AM - Control fork assembly friction against skin (Andrew Sarangan)
2. 08:03 AM - Rotax EASA AD (Frans Veldman)
3. 08:14 AM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Frans Veldman)
4. 08:20 AM - Re: Control fork assembly friction against skin (Jeff B)
5. 08:20 AM - Re: Nose Wheel! (robertpeterfrost)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Rotax EASA AD (goff)
7. 08:37 AM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Peter Zutrauen)
8. 08:46 AM - Re: Rotax EASA AD (Peter Zutrauen)
9. 08:46 AM - Fw: question from Rough River (Jeffrey Roberts)
10. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Rotax EASA AD (Max Cointe)
11. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Nose Wheel! (Brian Davies)
12. 10:06 AM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Neville Eyre)
13. 10:35 AM - Re: Nose Wheel! (robertpeterfrost)
14. 11:02 AM - carb bowl insulation (graeme bird)
15. 11:05 AM - Re: Control fork assembly friction against skin (Tim Ward)
16. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Rotax EASA AD (Frans Veldman)
17. 12:38 PM - SV: carb bowl insulation (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
18. 12:57 PM - Re: Fw: question from Rough River (Robert Borger)
19. 12:58 PM - Re: Fw: question from Rough River (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
20. 02:52 PM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
21. 02:53 PM - Re: Flap up method for single handed rigging (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
22. 03:39 PM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Peter Zutrauen)
23. 04:06 PM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Frans Veldman)
24. 04:38 PM - Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike only) (Nigel Graham)
25. 05:07 PM - Re: Flap up method for single handed rigging (AirEupora)
26. 09:05 PM - Stick control movement - how many degrees? (Andrew Sarangan)
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Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published |
Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Subject: | Control fork assembly friction against skin |
I just did some trial fitting of the control fork in the cockpit module.
Although I took great pains to make sure the alignment was perfect, I
overlooked something. I am talking about the fork assembly
(CS02/Tufnol/CS03 sandwich) where it enters the tunnel through the hole in
the thigh support. Since the manual insisted on cutting this hole as low as
possible on the cockpit module's floor, I might have gone a hair too low.
The edges of the CS02 fork is now pressing against the lower glassfiber
flange. This friction is not serious, but even a small change in the setup
can make it stiffen up significantly. My thought is to cut that part of the
skin off, since I don't see it serving any special purpose. Photos are
attached. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Message 2
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Hi everyone,
I came aware of a recent AD concerning the Rotax engines.
Something about certain faulty crankshafts installed in 912's and 914's,
serious enough to warrant an emergency AD for certified airplanes.
Before I attempt to find out if my engine could have this faulty
crankshaft, does anyone know if there is a list with engine serial
numbers / years of built, that could possibly have this faulty crankshaft?
It would be great if I would not have to dig out the crankshaft to find
out whether it is ok or not, and don't have to worry about it at all.
Maybe there is such a list but the art of managing paperwork is not my
best developed area, so forgive me if I asked for the obvious.
Frans
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
On 11/18/2011 08:04 PM, Bob Harrison wrote:
> Hi! Herewith a photo of the tie down location on the wing/flap hinge block
> on G-PTAG .
Ehm, the flap hinge is designed for holding the flap in position. Tying
down the aircraft with it imposes the hinge to possible jerking loads,
in a different angle than the hinge is supposed to receive during its
intended use. I remember some notes about not using pencil marks on this
apparently sensitive and critical part. Can anyone make an educated
guess whether using this part as tie down point would not compromise the
attachment or strength of the hinge?
Frans
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Subject: | Re: Control fork assembly friction against skin |
Andrew. Simply trim away the offending portion of the flange and
continue on...
Jeff - Baby Blue
On 11/21/2011 9:22 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> I just did some trial fitting of the control fork in the cockpit module.
> Although I took great pains to make sure the alignment was perfect, I
> overlooked something. I am talking about the fork assembly
> (CS02/Tufnol/CS03 sandwich) where it enters the tunnel through the hole
> in the thigh support. Since the manual insisted on cutting this hole as
> low as possible on the cockpit module's floor, I might have gone a hair
> too low. The edges of the CS02 fork is now pressing against the lower
> glassfiber flange. This friction is not serious, but even a small change
> in the setup can make it stiffen up significantly. My thought is to cut
> that part of the skin off, since I don't see it serving any special
> purpose. Photos are attached. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
Message 5
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I am trying to source Nyogel 767A but it is not held in the UK by Newgate Simms
they have to import it and it will be in 100ml tubs and will take 3 weeks to
come. It costs about 31.00 for this small tub, but that isn't the main problem
it's the 3 week wait which then clashes with me being overseas for nearly 3 weeks
over the Christmas Holidays, so no flying until the New Year!!
Has anyone a small amount of Nyogel 767A I can purchase to save me the wait?
Regards
Robert
--------
Robert
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358633#358633
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Subject: | Re: Rotax EASA AD |
Frans,
The EASA notification is misleading in that it only refers to certified engines
because EASA only deal with certified aircraft. If you go to the Rotax website
you can download the Rotax Alert Service Bulletin (Mandatory) that lists ALL
the offending ENGINE numbers. Apparently only about 200 crankshafts were dodgy
and they are all more recent, being numbers which start with 6.
Hope this helps.
Goff
ps I'm also going to try and attach a pdf of the bulletin. Never done this before
so fingers crossed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358634#358634
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/d05094_507.pdf
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
That would be my concern, I'm planning on a dedicated hard point slightly
outboard of the hinge.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>wrote:
>
> On 11/18/2011 08:04 PM, Bob Harrison wrote:
>
>> Hi! Herewith a photo of the tie down location on the wing/flap hinge
>> block
>> on G-PTAG .
>>
>
> Ehm, the flap hinge is designed for holding the flap in position. Tying
> down the aircraft with it imposes the hinge to possible jerking loads, in a
> different angle than the hinge is supposed to receive during its intended
> use. I remember some notes about not using pencil marks on this apparently
> sensitive and critical part. Can anyone make an educated guess whether
> using this part as tie down point would not compromise the attachment or
> strength of the hinge?
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Rotax EASA AD |
fwiw,
http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?785-RotaxOwner.com-Alert-912-amp-914-Crankshaft-check-your-serial-number-Manditory
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I came aware of a recent AD concerning the Rotax engines.
> Something about certain faulty crankshafts installed in 912's and 914's,
> serious enough to warrant an emergency AD for certified airplanes.
>
> Before I attempt to find out if my engine could have this faulty
> crankshaft, does anyone know if there is a list with engine serial numbers
> / years of built, that could possibly have this faulty crankshaft?
>
> It would be great if I would not have to dig out the crankshaft to find
> out whether it is ok or not, and don't have to worry about it at all.
>
> Maybe there is such a list but the art of managing paperwork is not my
> best developed area, so forgive me if I asked for the obvious.
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Fwd: question from Rough River |
To All,
Below is a note that I received today from Rough River. I apologize not
being able to make it last year as life got in the way. It seems maybe
Labor day weekend may not be the best time for this event. A lot of
Family commitments for all. I think this year we should consider maybe
the week after or even two weeks after as we did a few years back. I
seem to remember there was someone else that was considering planning
the 2012 event. If so let me know or I would be happy to do it. Either
way is fine but maybe we should go for a list earlier this year to see
if the interest is still there. Looks like by there message below their
prices have been lowered a bit. I for one will do my best to attend. My
Kid is back in the states and most family emergencies have subsided...
LOL!
Regards,
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Clark, Donna F (Parks)" <DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov>
> Date: November 21, 2011 10:23:08 AM CST
> To: <jeff@rmmm.net>
> Subject: question from Rough River
>
>
> Morning,
> Just checking in to see if you would like to book for September 2012
> Lodging prices are lowerJ
> Lodge Room $80.96
> Standard Cottage$107.96
> Thanks
> Group Sales Coordinator
> Rough River State Dam Park
> 450 Lodge Road
> Falls of Rough Ky,40119
> 270-257-2311
> 1-800-325-1713
> DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Rotax EASA AD |
Hi Frans and Goff,
Here it is... Not that recent as mine is 6.811.381 built in 2002...
Cheers,
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
-----Message d'origine-----
De-: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de goff
Envoy=E9-: lundi 21 novembre 2011 17:17
=C0-: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet-: Europa-List: Re: Rotax EASA AD
Frans,
The EASA notification is misleading in that it only refers to certified
engines because EASA only deal with certified aircraft. If you go to the
Rotax website you can download the Rotax Alert Service Bulletin
(Mandatory)
that lists ALL the offending ENGINE numbers. Apparently only about 200
crankshafts were dodgy and they are all more recent, being numbers which
start with 6.
Hope this helps.
Goff
ps I'm also going to try and attach a pdf of the bulletin. Never done
this
before so fingers crossed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358634#358634
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/d05094_507.pdf
Message 11
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|
Nyogel 868H is available from Farnell in the UK. 100cc costs 18.79.
I use a sample of it on my aircraft two weeks ago and it works just fine. I
obtained a sample from Nyogel in the USA which was delivered within 7 days.
Regards
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
robertpeterfrost
Sent: 21 November 2011 16:16
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Nose Wheel!
--> <robertpeterfrost@aol.com>
I am trying to source Nyogel 767A but it is not held in the UK by Newgate
Simms they have to import it and it will be in 100ml tubs and will take 3
weeks to come. It costs about 31.00 for this small tub, but that isn't the
main problem it's the 3 week wait which then clashes with me being overseas
for nearly 3 weeks over the Christmas Holidays, so no flying until the New
Year!!
Has anyone a small amount of Nyogel 767A I can purchase to save me the wait?
Regards
Robert
--------
Robert
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358633#358633
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
No Problem !
This is the position of the Mono Wheel Outriggers, the attachment and struc
ture in the wing was set up to take the loads from that.
Only point I will make, Bob must have had an early Mono Kit with the Alloy
latch block [ that he has drilled though for the eye bolt] Trigear Kits hav
e a plastic [ spacer ] block, later Mono Kits had a three piece[ tufnel / h
ardened steel / tufnel ] latch block assembly. You won't drill though it i
f you have converted from a Mono and left the steel latch block in place !
I suggest Trigear owners do what I do, back up the plastic with an alloy pl
ate to spread the load. I also put a tube guide down to near the fairing to
help find the hole.
Check you have three bolts through each bracket to the embedded plates in t
he wing.
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:14
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (
trike only)
On 11/18/2011 08:04 PM, Bob Harrison wrote:
Hi! Herewith a photo of the tie down location on the wing/flap hinge bloc
k
on G-PTAG .
Ehm, the flap hinge is designed for holding the flap in position. Tying
own the aircraft with it imposes the hinge to possible jerking loads,
n a different angle than the hinge is supposed to receive during its
ntended use. I remember some notes about not using pencil marks on this
pparently sensitive and critical part. Can anyone make an educated
uess whether using this part as tie down point would not compromise the
ttachment or strength of the hinge?
Frans
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Message 13
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Thanks Brian, I will give them a call to see if they have any in stock.
Regards
Robert
--------
Robert
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358725#358725
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Subject: | carb bowl insulation |
I would like to put some heat insulation under my 912 carb bowls and was thinking
of that sticky matting with foil on one side and stick to the bowls. but I
am not sure if thats a good idea or not or which foil to use from ASpruce. I can
only really see one fixing point - the engine bolt for a aluminium drip tray.
Any better ideas?
Not flown yet, should be the 10th Dec ish.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
Build nearing completion
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358729#358729
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Subject: | Re: Control fork assembly friction against skin |
Andrew,
Remember that the range of play needed in the Aileron is restricted by two limbs
either side of stick. So any rubbing on the extremes is not an issue.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
On 22/11/2011, at 4:22 AM, Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just did some trial fitting of the control fork in the cockpit module. Although
I took great pains to make sure the alignment was perfect, I overlooked something.
I am talking about the fork assembly (CS02/Tufnol/CS03 sandwich) where
it enters the tunnel through the hole in the thigh support. Since the manual
insisted on cutting this hole as low as possible on the cockpit module's floor,
I might have gone a hair too low. The edges of the CS02 fork is now pressing
against the lower glassfiber flange. This friction is not serious, but even
a small change in the setup can make it stiffen up significantly. My thought
is to cut that part of the skin off, since I don't see it serving any special
purpose. Photos are attached. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> <IMG_5235-1.JPG>
> <IMG_5233-1.JPG>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Rotax EASA AD |
On 11/21/2011 06:07 PM, Max Cointe wrote:
> Here it is... Not that recent as mine is 6.811.381 built in 2002...
Whoops. My engine is uncomfortably close with 6772973, but still outside
the range!
Thanks for the document (and the others also thanks for the info)!
Frans
Message 17
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Subject: | carb bowl insulation |
Graeme,
Attached are five photos of my carb heat shields (912 ULS), which I
hope will say more than a thousand words.
The shield is made of thin stainless steel plate. The support is one
continous strip cut from a stainless steel plate, riveted to the shield.
The zig-zag shape makes the support sufficiently stiff against
vibrations.
You will see that the aft, lower fixation of the shield support is the
screw clamp that holds the exhaust temp thermocouple in place, while the
forward, upper fixation is a standard stainless steel screw hose clamp.
Both are tightened "just so" - no point tightening hard. If you do not
have these thermocouples installed, use hose clamps.
Good luck.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: question from Rough River |
Jeff,
We are sure interested in attending the next fly-in. Date doesn't matter much
to us, but Labor Day weekend is tougher to plan. Soon as a date is decided, we'll
reserve a room.
Glad to hear your son is back safe and sound. Will make for a good Thanksgiving.
Hope to see Y'all there.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Nov 21, 2011, at 10:44 AM, Jeffrey Roberts wrote:
> To All,
> Below is a note that I received today from Rough River. I apologize not being
able to make it last year as life got in the way. It seems maybe Labor day weekend
may not be the best time for this event. A lot of Family commitments for
all. I think this year we should consider maybe the week after or even two weeks
after as we did a few years back. I seem to remember there was someone else
that was considering planning the 2012 event. If so let me know or I would
be happy to do it. Either way is fine but maybe we should go for a list earlier
this year to see if the interest is still there. Looks like by there message
below their prices have been lowered a bit. I for one will do my best to attend.
My Kid is back in the states and most family emergencies have subsided...
LOL!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Clark, Donna F (Parks)" <DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov>
>> Date: November 21, 2011 10:23:08 AM CST
>> To: <jeff@rmmm.net>
>> Subject: question from Rough River
>>
>>
>> Morning,
>> Just checking in to see if you would like to book for September 2012
>> Lodging prices are lowerJ
>> Lodge Room $80.96
>> Standard Cottage$107.96
>> Thanks
>> Group Sales Coordinator
>> Rough River State Dam Park
>> 450 Lodge Road
>> Falls of Rough Ky,40119
>> 270-257-2311
>> 1-800-325-1713
>> DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: question from Rough River |
Jeff-
Later would be better for all concerned I think. The more we can push it toward
the end of September, or maybe even the first part of October, the better.
Jim Puglise
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Roberts" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:44:21 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: question from Rough River
To All,
Below is a note that I received today from Rough River. I apologize not being able
to make it last year as life got in the way. It seems maybe Labor day weekend
may not be the best time for this event. A lot of Family commitments for all.
I think this year we should consider maybe the week after or even two weeks
after as we did a few years back. I seem to remember there was someone else
that was considering planning the 2012 event. If so let me know or I would be
happy to do it. Either way is fine but maybe we should go for a list earlier this
year to see if the interest is still there. Looks like by there message below
their prices have been lowered a bit. I for one will do my best to attend.
My Kid is back in the states and most family emergencies have subsided... LOL!
Regards,
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Clark, Donna F (Parks)" < DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov >
Subject: question from Rough River
Morning,
Just checking in to see if you would like to book for September 2012
Lodging prices are lower J
Lodge Room $80.96
Standard Cottage$107.96
Thanks
Group Sales Coordinator
Rough River State Dam Park
450 Lodge Road
Falls of Rough Ky,40119
270-257-2311
1-800-325-1713
DonnaF.Clark@ky.gov
Message 20
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Subject: | Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
Hi! Frans/Peter/all.
I would draw your attention to a simple fact that when the flaps are
extended at 82 knots a large proportion of the aircraft weight is
carried on the flap hinges. The hinges at the outboard end of the
flaps are integral with and cured in place as part of two ribs which
extend over the full width of the wing which in turn also is cured and
envelopes the wing spar thus spreading any loading over a massive part
of the wing structure.
These structural factors are I would venture to suggest likely
stronger than any integral tie down that could be separately
constructed into the wing anywhere else without such considerable
weight increase when an existing potential facility is already
available.
With regards to receiving snatch blows through the aircraft "bucking
about" this is entirely without foundation since on tying down through
these points it is possible to load up and deflect the main gear legs
to ensure the system is constantly in tension.
In conclusion I can advise that G-PTAG has always been tied down in
this manner and has withstood some severe gusting wind conditions
without any damage ensuing what or where ever over it's 900 hours life
time. However all this advice is provided without liability as to the
engineering capability suggested. In other words why don't you all do
as you prefer but with the benefit of Neville Eyre's information I
suggest you establish your own aircraft's integrity with regards to the
type of block in use.
May I thank Neville Eyre for his kind intervention on this matter and I
can confirm that the blocks on G-PTAG are aluminium alloy and were part
of it's original Mono Wheel Kit since the aircraft was originally built
as a convertible so embodying all things Trike and Mono together.
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
Sent: 21 November 2011 16:11
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge
block (trike only)
nl>
On 11/18/2011 08:04 PM, Bob Harrison wrote:
> Hi! Herewith a photo of the tie down location on the wing/flap hinge
block
> on G-PTAG .
Ehm, the flap hinge is designed for holding the flap in position.
Tying
down the aircraft with it imposes the hinge to possible jerking
loads,
in a different angle than the hinge is supposed to receive during its
intended use. I remember some notes about not using pencil marks on
this
apparently sensitive and critical part. Can anyone make an educated
guess whether using this part as tie down point would not compromise
the
attachment or strength of the hinge?
Frans
Message 21
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Subject: | Flap up method for single handed rigging |
Hi! Tony.
You have me completely baffled . My a/c is a trike and has the
electric drive flaps.
However it also has a slotted link in the outboard hinge
mechanism on each wing which prevents the flap from falling past fully
extended position.
I can not for the life of me understand why you would need to leave
this hard ware out. when it serves the purpose which you are trying to
solve?
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Sent: 20 November 2011 20:05
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap up method for single handed rigging
com>
Thanks Fred,Bob Graham and co re flap rigging. I will have electric
flaps and could therefore rig with the flaps at any position. At the
moment they will fall right out of the close out and rotate such that
the trailing edge of the flap can be against the wing, because I don't
have the outrigger hardware to create an extended stop. I either need
to come up with an extended stop for my flaps, or rig the wing with the
flaps up. Has any of the electric flap Tri-gear guys managed this other
ways, or have any suggestions?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
All very good valid points. Thanks for the post!
My concern would be with any side-loads on the brackets, but that could
likely be mitigated.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:48 PM, ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk <
ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Frans/Peter/all.
> I would draw your attention to a simple fact that when the flaps are
> extended at 82 knots a large proportion of the aircraft weight is
> carried on the flap hinges. The hinges at the outboard end of the
> flaps are integral with and cured in place as part of two ribs which
> extend over the full width of the wing which in turn also is cured and
> envelopes the wing spar thus spreading any loading over a massive part
> of the wing structure.
>
> These structural factors are I would venture to suggest likely
> stronger than any integral tie down that could be separately
> constructed into the wing anywhere else without such considerable
> weight increase when an existing potential facility is already
> available.
>
> With regards to receiving snatch blows through the aircraft "bucking
> about" this is entirely without foundation since on tying down through
> these points it is possible to load up and deflect the main gear legs
> to ensure the system is constantly in tension.
>
> In conclusion I can advise that G-PTAG has always been tied down in
> this manner and has withstood some severe gusting wind conditions
> without any damage ensuing what or where ever over it's 900 hours life
> time. However all this advice is provided without liability as to the
> engineering capability suggested. In other words why don't you all do
> as you prefer but with the benefit of Neville Eyre's information I
> suggest you establish your own aircraft's integrity with regards to the
> type of block in use.
>
> May I thank Neville Eyre for his kind intervention on this matter and I
> can confirm that the blocks on G-PTAG are aluminium alloy and were part
> of it's original Mono Wheel Kit since the aircraft was originally built
> as a convertible so embodying all things Trike and Mono together.
>
> Best regards
>
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
>
> Sent: 21 November 2011 16:11
>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge
> block (trike only)
>
>
> nl>
>
>
> On 11/18/2011 08:04 PM, Bob Harrison wrote:
>
> > Hi! Herewith a photo of the tie down location on the wing/flap hinge
> block
>
> > on G-PTAG .
>
>
> Ehm, the flap hinge is designed for holding the flap in position.
> Tying
>
> down the aircraft with it imposes the hinge to possible jerking
> loads,
>
> in a different angle than the hinge is supposed to receive during its
>
> intended use. I remember some notes about not using pencil marks on
> this
>
> apparently sensitive and critical part. Can anyone make an educated
>
> guess whether using this part as tie down point would not compromise
> the
>
> attachment or strength of the hinge?
>
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
Hi Bob,
> I would draw your attention to a simple fact that when the flaps are
> extended at 82 knots a large proportion of the aircraft weight is
> carried on the flap hinges.
Yes, but this load is in the opposite direction and from quite a
different nature, and most likely in an angled direction whereas the
flap exerts a "straight" line of load.
Many of us have a "no push" or "no step" mark on the flap, while it is
very unlikely that someone weighs more than the lift potential of the
flap. Apparently some people feel that not all loads are of a similar
nature. I'm a bit cautious, I have to admit, I couldn't help wondering
about this. I just prefer to limit the use of critical parts to their
intended usage.
> With regards to receiving snatch blows through the aircraft "bucking
> about" this is entirely without foundation since on tying down through
> these points it is possible to load up and deflect the main gear legs
> to ensure the system is constantly in tension.
We all know what happens with the doors when they are in constant
tension by the support springs: they deform. I can imagine when you load
up the structure of the aircraft while being parked in the sun that it
may deform a bit over time. Maybe just a millimeter, but that said,
while building the airplane I did the measurements down to a precision
of better than 1 millimeter. So if I tie down the aircraft I make sure
not to tie any load on the wing. Downside of course is that if the
airplane rocks in the wind that it will jerk on the tie downs. But I
don't use the flap hinges as tie down points. But who knows? Maybe your
method is better. We are just guessing here, aren't we?
> In conclusion I can advise that G-PTAG has always been tied down in
> this manner and has withstood some severe gusting wind conditions
> without any damage ensuing what or where ever over it's 900 hours life
> time.
It is impressive, but no guarantee by itself that it could never have
any negative consequences. You are probably right but I had an uneasy
feeling when I red about it. If it was about a bicycle I would have
ignored it, but we are talking airplanes here and I feel that if any of
us has an uneasy feeling about something that he should bring it up.
> May I thank Neville Eyre for his kind intervention on this matter and I
I hope I didn't irritate you, I was just wondering whether using a
critical aircraft part outside the scope of its intended usage would be
safe by definition. I have to admit that I would never have thought that
just a pencil mark would compromise the strength of that part either.
I think it is a good thing if we discuss the safety of some ideas before
they become common practice. I would really hate to read someday that
one of us lost his flap during flight and that a hinge with an eyebolt
was discovered some distance away from the wreckage... Especially if I
remember having questioned it silently and never brought up the subject.
I guess we won't be able to obtain a definite verdict on this matter,
everyone should make his own decision. It is probably ok to use the flap
hinge for this but you can't know for sure I think.
Frans
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Eye bolt tie down through wing/flap hinge block (trike |
only)
Frans,
Don't forget that this mounting point was originally designed and
stressed to mount the outrigger on the original mono-wheel. Consider
if you will, the compressive shock loads imposed by an unforgiving
landing on rough grass, or the lateral loads imposed during turning.
I cannot recall a single incidence of this part of the
wing/flap/outrigger mounting ever failing (and there have been
numerous mono groung handling "incidents"). Your arguments are
however, all valid.
Nigel
Hi Bob,
I would draw your attention to a simple fact that when the flaps
are
extended at 82 knots a large proportion of the aircraft weight is
carried on the flap hinges.
Yes, but this load is in the opposite direction and from quite a
different nature, and most likely in an angled direction whereas the
flap exerts a "straight" line of load.
Many of us have a "no push" or "no step" mark on the flap, while it
is very unlikely that someone weighs more than the lift potential of
the flap. Apparently some people feel that not all loads are of a
similar nature. I'm a bit cautious, I have to admit, I couldn't help
wondering about this. I just prefer to limit the use of critical
parts to their intended usage.
With regards to receiving snatch blows through the aircraft "bucking
about" this is entirely without foundation since on tying down
through
these points it is possible to load up and deflect the main gear
legs
to ensure the system is constantly in tension.
We all know what happens with the doors when they are in constant
tension by the support springs: they deform. I can imagine when you
load up the structure of the aircraft while being parked in the sun
that it may deform a bit over time. Maybe just a millimeter, but that
said, while building the airplane I did the measurements down to a
precision of better than 1 millimeter. So if I tie down the aircraft
I make sure not to tie any load on the wing. Downside of course is
that if the airplane rocks in the wind that it will jerk on the tie
downs. But I don't use the flap hinges as tie down points. But who
knows? Maybe your method is better. We are just guessing here, aren't
we?
In conclusion I can advise that G-PTAG has always been tied down in
this manner and has withstood some severe gusting wind conditions
without any damage ensuing what or where ever over it's 900 hours
life
time.
It is impressive, but no guarantee by itself that it could never
have any negative consequences. You are probably right but I had an
uneasy feeling when I red about it. If it was about a bicycle I would
have ignored it, but we are talking airplanes here and I feel that if
any of us has an uneasy feeling about something that he should bring
it up.
May I thank Neville Eyre for his kind intervention on this matter
and I
I hope I didn't irritate you, I was just wondering whether using a
critical aircraft part outside the scope of its intended usage would
be safe by definition. I have to admit that I would never have
thought that just a pencil mark would compromise the strength of that
part either.
I think it is a good thing if we discuss the safety of some ideas
before they become common practice. I would really hate to read
someday that one of us lost his flap during flight and that a hinge
with an eyebolt was discovered some distance away from the
wreckage... Especially if I remember having questioned it silently
and never brought up the subject.
I guess we won't be able to obtain a definite verdict on this
matter, everyone should make his own decision. It is probably ok to
use the flap hinge for this but you can't know for sure I think.
Frans
===========
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Subject: | Re: Flap up method for single handed rigging |
I built a telescoping square brace tubing that attaches to the tie down bolt hole.
I have an over center brace that I can take the wings off my dolly and place
the spar into the hole in the fuselage. I then lift the wing and straighten
it out from the wing tip then slide it into the fuselage. I only have one
picture, take in the rain, but can sent the measurements and some pictures. The
square tubing is welded to a square legs that have 360 degrees rolls installed.
The telescoping inner tube is secured with a Vise Grip pliers on each wing.
I have then marked with magic marker and once I have the wings in I telescope
the tube to the correct height to install the pins. I have the flap in the
down position and work the wing into the fuselage to just before engaging the
flaps.
I hope this makes sense. I have put the wings on using this method for the last
year by myself.
If you want the pictures e-mail off line aireupora@sbcglobal.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358772#358772
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0296_104.jpg
Message 26
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Subject: | Stick control movement - how many degrees? |
It seems the suggested 5-7mm gap between the CS08 crank and the
cockpit floor may cause interference of the control stick. Some
builders have suggested increasing this gap. I hate guessing how much
gap to leave, so it would help if I knew how many degrees the stick is
expected to swing for a full left or right deflection. Does anyone
have this information, or willing to check for me?
Thanks!
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