Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 12/13/11


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:44 AM - Re: Excellent tailplane modification designed by Pat Tunney (GBWFH2010)
     2. 07:42 AM - Bottom cut-outs (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
     3. 08:50 AM - Re: Bottom cut-outs (Gary Leinberger)
     4. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: AC powered fin strobe (Jan de Jong)
     5. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: AC powered fin strobe (Frans Veldman)
     6. 09:52 AM - SV: Bottom cut-outs (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
     7. 10:22 AM - Re: Bottom cut-outs (Gary Leinberger)
     8. 10:42 AM - L/A flyers - builders (tennant)
     9. 10:42 AM - Re: Bottom cut-outs (Carl Meek)
    10. 01:13 PM - Re: Bottom cut-outs (Gary Leinberger)
    11. 02:11 PM - Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (graeme bird)
    12. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (Fred Klein)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:44:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Excellent tailplane modification designed by Pat Tunney
    From: "GBWFH2010" <gaxuk2010@gmail.com>
    The amount will vary depending on how much work is required for individual aircraft, but as a guide Pat Charged me 360. I am not sure if Pat has any more clamps in stock, as he only had a limited number made. -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360809#360809


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:42:48 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Bottom cut-outs
    When I installed the fuel hoses in the then not yet installed cockpit module(supply line, return, drains, sight tube), I did not think about renewing the hoses. Now, I realize that access to some of this is difficult, at best. I built my plane with a cut-out in the bottom where the monowheel would have been (mine is a tri-gear), with a hinged hatch door for easy access to gascolator, fuel pump, drains, Andair fuel selector valve, etc. It is, alas, too tight to reach further back and do much there. I know that some have cut out the bottom between the two round tank outlet inspection hatches - see the green area A on the attached sketch. I cannot see that this weakens the construction, but on the other hand it may not give me the access I would like. Has anyone cut out the red area, marked B? If so, how has it been covered/the area reinforced? Although the very strong cockpit module probably carry the loads on its own, this part does give some contribution to strength. I can see ways to maintain the strength when a cover plate is bolted in place, but if anyone has already tread this path, I would appreciate to know the details. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:50:57 AM PST US
    From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
    Subject: Bottom cut-outs
    I also have the tri-gear, and have the wheel well area covered with a door. I also cut out the area A (on your drawing) and made one long oval door b etween the two round holes . I reinforced this oval opening with thin alumi num and glass. In addition, I put an additional several layers of glass acr oss the entire bottom and up the sides about 6 inches. In part I did this t o reinforce the hole I made between the normal round holes and also becaus e a friend with an older Europa said that after a few years his Tri-gear de veloped cracks around the gear supports. The rule is that you have to repla ce a cut out area with some multiple of the area removed (4?, 6?). I probab ly went over board and will see the costs of my over- reinforcement next mo nth when we do the weight and balance (I have nightmares that I have built a single person plane - and that person must be skinny - something I am not .) I would not be too happy about cutting out more as in area B in your drawi ng - especially after the cockpit is in and you can't reinforce the surroun ding glass from the inside. - although the way the cockpit module is glued in means the structure is really strong. Although my gas valve is on the top of the cockpit module center armrest I did cut out the provided cutout for the gas value on the co-pilot side of t he cockpit module. This approximately 6" hole does provide some access. The other approach is to move the parts so they are accessible. I have been through several revisions of the fuel system to make it maintainable. The rule I have found is that it takes 1 X of time to make it work, 2 X to make it work and be maintainable, and 3x of time to make it work, be maintainab le and be pretty. Or maybe you can get your spouse (with hopefully small ha nds) or a small child to do that part of the maintenance. Gary Leinberger A237 Real near flying (except for just a few "little" things) From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:39 AM Subject: Europa-List: Bottom cut-outs When I installed the fuel hoses in the then not yet installed cockpit modul e(supply line, return, drains, sight tube), I did not think about renewing the hoses. Now, I realize that access to some of this is difficult, at bes t. I built my plane with a cut-out in the bottom where the monowheel would hav e been (mine is a tri-gear), with a hinged hatch door for easy access to ga scolator, fuel pump, drains, Andair fuel selector valve, etc. It is, alas, too tight to reach further back and do much there. I know that some have cut out the bottom between the two round tank outlet inspection hatches - see the green area A on the attached sketch. I canno t see that this weakens the construction, but on the other hand it may not give me the access I would like. Has anyone cut out the red area, marked B? If so, how has it been covered/ the area reinforced? Although the very strong cockpit module probably carr y the loads on its own, this part does give some contribution to strength. I can see ways to maintain the strength when a cover plate is bolted in pl ace, but if anyone has already tread this path, I would appreciate to know the details. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:54:23 AM PST US
    From: Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
    Subject: Re: AC powered fin strobe
    Hi Richard, Not the way we are used to connecting loads to power sources indeed. I don't like the fact that your DC power supply and your strobe box are now mutually dependent. Mind that the optional switch drawn has to carry 15 A average and 100 A peak (<1 ms). But it will probably work well enough. A power supply is generally used as a voltage source. The load takes some current away that does not affect the voltage (ideally). In this case usage is reversed. The load takes some voltage away that does not affect the current (too much, we hope). The strobe input may be an up transformer with a few fat primary windings and many thin secondary windings. It probably takes away a certain percentage of the AC voltage available. You will need somewhat more RPM than before for DC to reach normal performance. That should be all, actually. Regards, Jan de Jong


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:10:44 AM PST US
    From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
    Subject: Re: AC powered fin strobe
    On 12/13/2011 06:58 AM, Richard Lamprey wrote: > I attach again the simplified wiring diagram, > showing the in series connection, this diagram enclosed with the > strobe, and also re-confirmed with the original manufacturer Air-Tech > Inc. It is indeed in series! Well, my ideas on this: The total aircraft electrical power consumption will have to go through the strobe box and its associated wiring. All of it. This means that if you put the strobe box in the fin, all electrical current for whatever avionics you have, will have to travel through the wires, forth and back to the tail. This has the following implications: 1) you need to run very heavy wires, to keep current losses acceptable. The wires do not just carry the current for the strobe, but the current for the total electrical load of the entire aircraft. 2) You can not install a light fuse, you have to use a fuse higher than the total power demand of the aircraft. Think about something like 30 Amps. If you have a short circuit somewhere but the current stays below 30 Amps, the fuse won't blow but all this energy is converted into heat. This is a fire hazard. 3) The long wires will act like an antenna. Alternators AND strobes are both notorious for their electrical noise. It may have an influence on your radio. Therefor, I would highly recommend to put this strobe box as close to the alternator as possible. This again has the implication that you will have to run long wires to the strobe bulb, but at least these wires do not carry large currents. Also be aware that your electrical system becomes completely dependent on the strobe box. If it blows open circuit, it takes the whole electrical system with it. You definitely need to incorporate a short-circuit switch, to bridge the strobe box in case it fails open circuit. There is no such thing as "free electricity". Anything in series with the voltage regulator will have its impact on the performance of the electrical system. I can't judge from here how bad it is. But the Rotax power system isn't powerfull to start with. Best regards, Frans


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:52:36 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Bottom cut-outs
    Gary, Thank you very much for your good comments. I will give it a try with the openings that I presently have, and will do as you suggest - move some parts (the T for fuel return and the T for sight tube) so that they become accessible in the wheel well, provided I manage to get out those parts and hoses (some surgical cutting of the old hoses could do the trick). Without having performed any structural analysis, attached is a sketch of how area B (ref. my previous mail) could be cut out and the strength of the bottom retained when an aluminum cover of adequate thickness and quality is bolted in the cut-out's place. WARNING: Not verified in any way!! Good luck with completion of your build! Regards, Svein


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:22:07 AM PST US
    From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
    Subject: Bottom cut-outs
    Being a belt and suspenders guy, I would put BID on the top of the aluminum and run up the inside of the tunnel wall to carry the load up the sides. I wouldn't bolt it but rather rivet it (just to hold it in place or clamp it until the glue dries - then glass it in place - you are never going to tak e it out I assume. You can also use the aluminum and/or the fliberglass to provide the lip to hold the door flush to the bottom and to hold your nut p lates for mounting the door. (Wrap the door in saran wrap and use as the fo rm for the lip - as you probably know.) I have been working with Bud Yerly and he has convinced me to nutplate ever ything - so I can remove stuff without a helper. Gary Leinberger Associate Professor Finance McComsey Hall 340 Millersville University MWF 11-Noon, TTH 3:45-4:30 PM, W 1-3 PM 717-872-3817 gleinberger@millersville.edu From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:49 PM Subject: SV: Europa-List: Bottom cut-outs Gary, Thank you very much for your good comments. I will give it a try with the openings that I presently have, and will do a s you suggest - move some parts (the T for fuel return and the T for sight tube) so that they become accessible in the wheel well, provided I manage t o get out those parts and hoses (some surgical cutting of the old hoses cou ld do the trick). Without having performed any structural analysis, attached is a sketch of h ow area B (ref. my previous mail) could be cut out and the strength of the bottom retained when an aluminum cover of adequate thickness and quality is bolted in the cut-out's place. WARNING: Not verified in any way!! Good luck with completion of your build! Regards, Svein


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:42:02 AM PST US
    Subject: L/A flyers - builders
    From: "tennant" <barrington.tennant@gmail.com>
    I will be at Hermosa Beach from 25 Dec to 3 Jan if anyone in the area wants to talk Europa's or just drink beer with a 14 year long Mono flyer. Barry Tennant bt(at)tennant-metall.de -------- Barry Tennant D-EHBT At EDLM - Germany Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360855#360855


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:42:02 AM PST US
    From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Bottom cut-outs
    Belt and suspenders has a totally different meaning in the UK.... Sent from my iPhone On 13 Dec 2011, at 18:18, Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu> wrote: > Being a belt and suspenders guy, I would put BID on the top of the aluminu m and run up the inside of the tunnel wall to carry the load up the sides. I wouldn=99t bolt it but rather rivet it (just to hold it in place or c lamp it until the glue dries =93 then glass it in place =93 you a re never going to take it out I assume. You can also use the aluminum and/or the fliberglass to provide the lip to hold the door flush to the bottom and to hold your nut plates for mounting the door. (Wrap the door in saran wrap and use as the form for the lip =93 as you probably know.) > > I have been working with Bud Yerly and he has convinced me to nutplate eve rything =93 so I can remove stuff without a helper. > > Gary Leinberger > Associate Professor > Finance > McComsey Hall 340 > Millersville University > MWF 11-Noon, TTH 3:45-4:30 PM, W 1-3 PM > 717-872-3817 > gleinberger@millersville.edu > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:49 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: SV: Europa-List: Bottom cut-outs > > Gary, > > Thank you very much for your good comments. > > I will give it a try with the openings that I presently have, and will do a s you suggest =93 move some parts (the T for fuel return and the T for sight tube) so that they become accessible in the wheel well, provided I ma nage to get out those parts and hoses (some surgical cutting of the old hose s could do the trick). > > Without having performed any structural analysis, attached is a sketch of h ow area B (ref. my previous mail) could be cut out and the strength of the b ottom retained when an aluminum cover of adequate thickness and quality is b olted in the cut-out=99s place. WARNING: Not verified in any way!! > > Good luck with completion of your build! > > Regards, > Svein > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:13:29 PM PST US
    From: Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
    Subject: Bottom cut-outs
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    Message 11


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    Time: 02:11:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell
    From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
    Thanks for all the posts, really nice of you all. I attach a picture of the plane (same as the rest, except perhaps not so polished) and Andy Draper and my inspector Matthew Boddington. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Build nearing completion Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360870#360870 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/g_umpy_01_117.jpg


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:57:01 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell
    > I attach a picture of the plane (same as the rest, except perhaps > not so polished) and Andy Draper and my inspector Matthew Boddington. You look suitably proud Graeme, and your polish exceeds my standards, ever decreasing as they may be as I pressure myself to finish. What's the back story on your use of what appears to be an XS cowl on your Classic?...and your prop/spinner combo is? Congratulations, Fred




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