---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/10/12: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:20 AM - Re: ID of an XS conventional LG (Robert Borger) 2. 06:17 AM - Re: Leaking coolant (Paul McAllister) 3. 07:57 AM - Re: Leaking coolant (Robert Borger) 4. 09:34 AM - Re: Leaking coolant (rparigoris) 5. 09:36 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing (graeme bird) 6. 09:48 AM - VP prop, good idea? which one? (graeme bird) 7. 10:51 AM - Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (graeme bird) 8. 11:38 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing (Robert Borger) 9. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (Peter Jeffers) 10. 11:51 AM - Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing (graeme bird) 11. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (Robert Borger) 12. 12:08 PM - Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (graeme bird) 13. 12:14 PM - Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (Jeff B) 14. 02:06 PM - rudder springs (Paul & Vanessa Munford) 15. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (Fred Klein) 16. 03:42 PM - Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? (David Joyce) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ID of an XS conventional LG From: Robert Borger Fred, According to the FAA that's: Scott L Dingman 1434 Hoop Road Xenia, OH 45385-8631 And from White Pages his phone number is: 937-372-0021 That's the best I can do at 0700 hrs on a Tuesday morning. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 10, 2012, at 12:52 AM, Fred Klein wrote: > > Would anyone know how I might get in touch with the owner of N108EA? > > thanks...Fred ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Leaking coolant From: Paul McAllister Bob, McMasters have reduced the range of CTC that they carry, however what they do have can be found at: http://www.mcmaster.com/#constant-tension-hose-clamps/=fqtog0 Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Leaking coolant From: Robert Borger Paul, Yes, I found the clamps section. There are two styles, one of sheet steel and one of round steel rod. Which style are you using successfully and what size? It will be time to replace the coolant in another 25 hours or so and I would like to convert to the CTC at that time. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 10, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > Bob, > > McMasters have reduced the range of CTC that they carry, however what they do have can be found at: > > http://www.mcmaster.com/#constant-tension-hose-clamps/=fqtog0 > > Paul > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Leaking coolant From: "rparigoris" Hi Guys I too purchased CTC clamps to hold my Silicone hoses in place on my 914. Be aware the clamps come in different widths and tensions, they are not all created equal. Whatever I couldn't procure from McMaster, I got SELF-COMPENSATING HOSE CLAMPS from Rotor Clip: http://rotorclip.com/hose_clamps.php (I forget now, but they may have even sent me what I needed as free samples?) Although you could probably get away by using something you already have for squeezing and installing, I broke down and bought a purpose pliers that allows for holding and rotating the angle. I probably bought them from McMaster. No matter it isn't a bad idea to wear safety glasses when installing the clamps, at least until they are held captive on the hose. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362942#362942 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing From: "graeme bird" I'd like to know too. I brought what I thought was the right sizes to do this mod but one wouldnt fit in the other. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362944#362944 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:54 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: VP prop, good idea? which one? From: "graeme bird" So, in the shake down flight we were getting 140kts indicated at 5700 @ 2000ft on a 912ULS but the ASI is reading a bit high. I presume a VP prop would give a better take off and climb, quieter, maybe faster cruise particularly in thinner air. Am I right and which to go for? Woodcomp is significantly cheaper and I am told the wood is more absorbent of vibrations and less stiff. Is the CS controller worth having or is manual variable just as good? Is it worth being able to feather it? I intend to fly on my FP warp drive initially but it would suit me to buy the next prop now if thats the sensible thing to do. Advice appreciated. See you all at the dinner. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362946#362946 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? From: "graeme bird" oh dear, searching back through the historical records I see I might have kicked a hornets nest. Just tell me about the benefits of the CS prop then rather than the comparison. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362956#362956 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Outrigger Pivot Bearing From: Robert Borger Roddy & Greame, I have no idea where you can find it in the UK, but it's available from McMaster-Carr here on this side of the pond. McMaster has this and only this: Material Type 440C Stainless Steel Shape Structural Tubes Structural Tube Type Plain Round Structural Tube Tolerance Precision-Ground Outside Dia. 3/8" (.375") Outside Dia. Tolerance -.0002" Inside Dia. 5/16" (.3125") Inside Dia. Tolerance +.0002" Length 6" Length Tolerance =B1.01" Rockwell C50-C55 Specifications Met American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) ASTM Specification ASTM A276 for a price of $99.74 + shipping. That's UK=A364.50 + shipping. Whooeee, I don't remember that it cost that much several years ago when I did the mod, but that's what it is now. You can go to McMaster.com and search on Stainless Steel Tubing. On that page you can specify the OD and ID which will bring up the above. A 6 inch length should be sufficient for at least 2 mods so it isn't quite as painful to the purse if you share. You may order it directly from McMaster or if you wish, I'll be glad to order the tubing and forward it on to either of you. Once I know the end costs after shipping, you can post it to my PayPal account. Hopefully the import tariff on your end won't be a killer. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 9, 2012, at 4:33 PM, roddyeuropa@aol.com wrote: > Hi > Does anyone know where I can get the stainless steel tube needed to do the standard outrigger bearing mod (LAA mod 10661 - on the club website) in the UK ? > Thanks > Roddy Kesterton > #220 G-IKRK > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:39 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? Hi Graham, VP or CS props. 1 Better take off performance 2 Or better cruise performance. Depends what pitch you set it at. 3 Much greater overall flexibility and all round performance. Graham, by the way max continuous cruise on the Rotax 4 stroke series of engines is 5500 RPM not 5700RPM Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 10 January 2012 18:46 Subject: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? oh dear, searching back through the historical records I see I might have kicked a hornets nest. Just tell me about the benefits of the CS prop then rather than the comparison. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362956#362956 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:13 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Outrigger Pivot Bearing From: "graeme bird" I could check out Chronos in dunstable, beds, uk again with that spec, it should be right up thier street. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362964#362964 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? From: Robert Borger Greame, Yes, you may have done just that. I don't know how you have your current prop set. If it is set for a compromise between climb and cruise, as most are, then a C/S prop should allow you to take off in a shorter distance with superior climb performance and then allow you to cruise at a higher speed for the same fuel flow. Or you can obtain the same cruise performance at a lower fuel flow. If your prop is set for climb performance then the C/S prop will equal that performance and provide much better cruise performance. If you have your prop adjusted for cruise performance then the C/S prop will provide much better takeoff and climb performance. I have an Airmaster AP332 with AP200 controller. I consider their products to be of the highest quality and have found Martin to provide excellent support. Others seem to be quite satisfied with their own choices so you can go on from there. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 10, 2012, at 12:46 PM, graeme bird wrote: > > oh dear, searching back through the historical records I see I might have kicked a hornets nest. Just tell me about the benefits of the CS prop then rather than the comparison. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Just Test Flying to obtain permit ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:07 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? From: "graeme bird" Thanks Pete, yes I know its 5800 for a brief period only (5min) - but thats long enough to take a speed reading. Why did you say TO performance OR cruise, surely you improve both by setting fine for take off and course for cruise. What speed would you expect in the cruise? Regards -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just Test Flying to obtain permit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362968#362968 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:57 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: VP prop, good idea? which one? Graeme, I bought an Air Master, complete with CS controller, right off and haven't looked back. Great performance on both ends and in the middle, too. Jeff - Baby Blue On 1/10/2012 11:44 AM, graeme bird wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" > > So, in the shake down flight we were getting 140kts indicated at 5700 @ 2000ft on a 912ULS but the ASI is reading a bit high. I presume a VP prop would give a better take off and climb, quieter, maybe faster cruise particularly in thinner air. Am I right and which to go for? > Woodcomp is significantly cheaper and I am told the wood is more absorbent of vibrations and less stiff. > Is the CS controller worth having or is manual variable just as good? > Is it worth being able to feather it? > > I intend to fly on my FP warp drive initially but it would suit me to buy the next prop now if thats the sensible thing to do. > > Advice appreciated. > > See you all at the dinner. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Just Test Flying to obtain permit > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362946#362946 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:31 PM PST US From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" Subject: Europa-List: rudder springs Hi guys, I'm installing the starboard return spring & there clearly is'nt enough 'footwell' to mount the spring under any tension. Is it ok to fit a small extension piece ( 1/2 in aluminium?) to extend the spring approx 3 in into the engine bay space? is there a 'mod' for this? Thanx for your help !!! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:03 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: VP prop, good idea? which one? On Jan 10, 2012, at 10:46 AM, graeme bird wrote: > > oh dear, searching back through the historical records I see I might > have kicked a hornets nest. Just tell me about the benefits of the > CS prop then rather than the comparison. While I generally keep my distance from hornets' nests, as I've been in prop selection mode, I will pass on the notion that some FP prop manufacturers tout their products ability to adjust pitch (to a significant degree) in accordance w/ load and forward airspeed...i.e., their props take a thinner bite in slow speed/high power situations, and a thicker bite at cruise speed and cruise power settings. I write "to a significant degree", but do not intend to suggest that such a FP prop would provide CS performance. My recent inquiry about who owns N108EA stems from my seeing it on the Prince prop website gallery. Check out: http://princeaircraft.com/default.aspx and http://www.neuform-propellers.com/index.php?f=1&lang=en&site=Propeller/Contact%20us My interest in a ground adjustable FP prop stems from cost considerations, risk of prop strike during initial monowheel ops, and personal lack of experience flying behind a CS prop (thus affecting cockpit workload during initial flight tests). Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:24 PM PST US From: David Joyce Subject: Re: Europa-List: VP prop, good idea? which one? Graeme, As others have said it's a bit like having 5 gears on a car rather than going everywhere in third. Overall performance is transformed. But there is a further advantage: The constant speed element goes a long way to stop you overspeeding the engine, which can be an expensive or even very serious mistake. If you are distracted when operating at full power and have to descend to avoid something or are playing about doing unusual attitudes or aerobatics or whatever, it isn't difficult to overspeed with a fixed pitch prop, but a CS prop largely prevents that. Unless you have glider wings I would not contemplate a feathering prop. The theoretical advantage of being able to glide a bit further in the event of an engine failure is for me heavily outweighed by the possibility or indeed probability that you will end up trying to land with the prop still feathered, which will substantially increase the ground run. There is a marked difference in landing withe prop fully coarse compared with fully fine, let alone feathered, and I guess it might double the length of field you need to land without damage. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ Sent from my iPad On 10 Jan 2012, at 17:44, "graeme bird" wrote: > > So, in the shake down flight we were getting 140kts indicated at 5700 @ 2000ft on a 912ULS but the ASI is reading a bit high. I presume a VP prop would give a better take off and climb, quieter, maybe faster cruise particularly in thinner air. Am I right and which to go for? > Woodcomp is significantly cheaper and I am told the wood is more absorbent of vibrations and less stiff. > Is the CS controller worth having or is manual variable just as good? > Is it worth being able to feather it? > > I intend to fly on my FP warp drive initially but it would suit me to buy the next prop now if thats the sensible thing to do. > > Advice appreciated. > > See you all at the dinner. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Just Test Flying to obtain permit > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362946#362946 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.