Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/29/12


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:40 AM - EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Robert Borger)
     2. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Classic Exhaust mount - anti-seize compound necessary? (Christoph Both)
     3. 06:41 AM - Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (jglazener)
     4. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Steven Pitt)
     5. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Robert Borger)
     6. 11:22 AM - Re: Viking Aircraft engine (bill mcclellan)
     7. 03:45 PM - Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Pete)
     8. 04:02 PM - AW: Smart (uvtreith)
     9. 06:18 PM - Re: AW: Smart (Pete)
    10. 06:51 PM - Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Robert Borger)
    11. 08:45 PM - Re: AW: Smart (Fred Klein)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:40:43 AM PST US
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Subject: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    Fellow Europaphiles, It appears that Steve and Jos have closed europaowners.org. All that comes up is the message: So long and thanks for all the fish...... Does anyone else have access to web hosting facilities who could pick up the data/site? Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:22:36 AM PST US
    From: Christoph Both <christoph.both@acadiau.ca>
    Subject: Re: Classic Exhaust mount - anti-seize compound necessary?
    Hello Classic Europa builders and flyers: I need some advice if I need to bother putting anti-seize compound to the h eader/cylinder head connection and in particular applying it to the mating exhaust tube connections sliding together all 4 headers and the muffler ass embly. The Classic set up leaves much to be desired in regard to possible n eeds to occasionally disassemble the muffler/header combination to get unde r the engine for possible initial inspections during the first 25 hours of flight service. I am concerned that the tubes might be getting pitted and s tuck preventing easy on filed disassembly - is this the case? On the other hand I don't like to introduce less friction between the mating tube parts during engine running perhaps created by the anti-seizing compound acting l ike a grease, thus allowing easier fretting of the stainless steel tubes. Your advice is much appreciated. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Hi! Graham /all Right on the money ! ...and I certainly know a good amount of the hassle as sociated with the subject! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 27 January 2012 16:44 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Hi Paul I agree with everything you say, I would add that even now the Jab is still not a viable alternative (imho) I onlyknow of one successful Jab 6 owner a nd he isn't completely satisfied. Graham ________________________________ From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012, 16:17 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Guys, I'll toss my 2 cents worth into the ring on alternative engines. Fristly I would like to preface my comments with the statement that if we didn't try new things then we would be still flying with stuff powered from designs t hat trace there roots back 50 years. Come to think of it, if we didn't try new stuff then we wouldn't be even flying Europa's. Installing alternative power plants is not for the faint of heart, even pro ven designs. I recently completed some cooling modifications to my 914 and it was a lot of testing, work, re work and more testing. My modifications are trivial compared to something like a Viking. Even conventional convers ions such as the Jabaru have taken a lot of collective effort to get them t o the point of being a viable alternative. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying alternatives, but please be a ware that once you move away from the original design that you moving down a path that will consume considerable resources. Cheers, Paul http://www.matro=================== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:41:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    From: "jglazener" <j.glazener@planet.nl>
    I very much hope not. It would seem a bit strange that after all those years and all the work they have put into it they would just shut it down without warning, and leave only a cryptic and cynical remark. I put a lot of effort into the Gallery, and basically its the only record I have of my build. It would not exactly make my day if it had all just vanished.. Jeroen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365102#365102


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:19:05 AM PST US
    From: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    Jeroen and all Europa owners The Europa Club Committee has picked up on this thread and better minds than mine are looking into the situation. With regard to the gallery and other information databases the Club is currently producing a new website which, I have been promised by the committee, will be up and running by the end of February. In it we hope to expand the data that has been acquired, introduce a gallery of photos including individual albums and generally provide a 'one stop shop' for club and Europa owners/builders/flyers etc. I know it is a tall order and it has taken some time to get to a near complete state but bear with us a little longer. We are especially wanting to encourage overseas participation in this website and look forward to an American, Australasian etc page/section on the new site. I am still looking for an American rep to coordinate news etc. Anyone out there? Any input from you all would be appreciated. You can find our email addresses in the latest Europa flyer which came out a few weeks ago. Regards Steve Pitt Chairman, Europa Club G-SMDH trigear XS ----- Original Message ----- From: "jglazener" <j.glazener@planet.nl> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 2:37 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? > > I very much hope not. It would seem a bit strange that after all those > years and all the work they have put into it they would just shut it down > without warning, and leave only a cryptic and cynical remark. > > I put a lot of effort into the Gallery, and basically its the only record > I have of my build. It would not exactly make my day if it had all just > vanished.. > > Jeroen > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365102#365102 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:47:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Steve, WOW, that IS a tall order. We folks out here in EuropaLand appreciate your efforts. Do you think you will you be able get hold of the information and albums that were on the old Europa Owners site? I hope they haven't deleted it yet. One of these years, I'd like to come for the Annual Europa Club meeting. So many folks I'd like to meet in person, shake their hands and thank them for all the wonderful support they've given. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:16 AM, Steven Pitt wrote: > > Jeroen and all Europa owners > The Europa Club Committee has picked up on this thread and better minds than mine are looking into the situation. > > With regard to the gallery and other information databases the Club is currently producing a new website which, I have been promised by the committee, will be up and running by the end of February. In it we hope to expand the data that has been acquired, introduce a gallery of photos including individual albums and generally provide a 'one stop shop' for club and Europa owners/builders/flyers etc. I know it is a tall order and it has taken some time to get to a near complete state but bear with us a little longer. > We are especially wanting to encourage overseas participation in this website and look forward to an American, Australasian etc page/section on the new site. I am still looking for an American rep to coordinate news etc. Anyone out there? Any input from you all would be appreciated. You can find our email addresses in the latest Europa flyer which came out a few weeks ago. > Regards > Steve Pitt > Chairman, Europa Club > G-SMDH trigear XS


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:22:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Viking Aircraft engine
    From: "bill mcclellan" <wilwood@earthlink.net>
    Thanks for the many replies and good points. One point, Peter, can you elaborate and/or direct me to further explanation regarding the supposition that the Viking Honda rubber coupler/dampener doesnt do what it is supposed to do? I am in the final stages of my build and (as it is my way) I am now reviewing and making the decision on which path I will take to finish my fwf. I certainly am no stranger to making build changes and wont fool myself by under estimating the extra work that can be created. For me the design and development of a new cowling, an engine mount, cooling configuration, etc., though time and thought consuming are within my scope and very doable tasks. I would just have to decide what I would outsource and what I would do myself. I do confess, I am in the camp that Fred and Paul refer to. (And gratefully my Europa build has not kept me from flying...only kept me from flying my Europa.) I think/hope these fwf decisions are my final sidetrack. Notwithstanding the fact that Europa is built to mate to the Rotax, the cost of a Rotax is very hard for me to stomach. The cost now is $35k+ for FWF with a 914, and then afterwards the cost of replacement parts are just as objectionable. I do feel the experimental airplane and LSA environment will provide increasingly better alternatives. No one really likes being in a situation with few alternatives. Eventually someone will demonstrate there is a good or better alternative and I wouldnt mind making such contribution. It is not only the Viking Honda I am looking at. I was aware of (and even more aware of now) Jon Eggenfellner's history with Subaru engines. It just makes the point that one has to do ones own due diligence. Many of us rememberit wasn't a happy day when Europa went out of business, especially if you, like me, still had some parts undelivered. Getting past my displeasure with the cost of the Rotax - probably the most restrictive imperative and priority is keeping the engine weight within limits (ideally below 200 lbs). But from there, if its not too much ask for, here's my engine wish list: Fuel injection, electronic ignition, turbo-charging, the consistency of full engine liquid cooling, all allowing a constant speed prop and good fuel economy. At this, the 914 scores pretty well, so some would argue, just go spend the money...but, I haven't given in just yet. Bill McClellan A164 XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365147#365147


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:45:01 PM PST US
    From: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Subject: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    I truly hope it was hacked, and it is not the case that Steve and Jos (after all their years of work to keep the site going) would simply kill all the d ata kindly contributed from many others without notification and offering up the data to someone else to re-publish! Cheers, (concerned) Pete A239 On Jan 29, 2012, at 8:36 AM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: > Fellow Europaphiles, > > It appears that Steve and Jos have closed europaowners.org. All that come s up is the message: > > So long and thanks for all the fish...... > > Does anyone else have access to web hosting facilities who could pick up t he data/site? > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com >


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:02:20 PM PST US
    From: "uvtreith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
    Subject: Smart
    Hi Europa Family, I have installed the smart engine in my Monowheel XS. This engine is made by Mercedes-Brabus with Turbo. The engine is electronically controlled by the so called smart-MIP System. More Info you will find - also in English - under: www.ecofly.de <http://www.ecofly.de/> and www.schicke-electronic.de <http://www.schicke-electronic.de/> I paid complete with engine frame, all accessories (but used a water cooler from a Kawasaki 1200 and they changed the operating panel according to my drawing) and the smart-MIP system around 11.000 EUR. When the engine is finished after about 2.000 operating hours, you just get a new smart/Mercedes engine for about 4.500 EUR (Ecofly will do the change for you-if you like). Today we made some ground tests by -4=B0C and a static thrust test by Warp Drive setting on 14=B0 (best cruise). The max. engine rpm was 4.500, but the engine can do as maximum 5.800 rpm. The static thrust test was measured by a digital spring scale and was showing 145 kp, so now we will change the blade setting to 12=B0. Our aim is to get 180-200 kp. More info later, if you like. Best Regards, Bruno Reith -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Kevin Kedward Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Januar 2012 21:11 An: Europa-List@matronics.com Betreff: Europa-List: Smart Hi Guys, What happened to the Smart car engine installation ? Regards Kevin Sent from my iPhone


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:18:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Smart
    From: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Looks like a nice concept and execution. I like their implementation of the reduction drive's centrifugal clutch which engages at around 1800 rpm - lik ely avoiding the low rpm resonance peak which destroys so many of the expone ntial reduction drives. Their manual is also quite detailed about the operat ing constraints for the turbo etc. It was my understanding from my EAA colleges that when the prop/engine combi nation goes into resonance (typically at low rpms) the power dissipated in t he gearbox or any type of dissipating coupling (like the rubber one in the V iking) goes up exponentially. Wrt the Viking, i found Jan's dismissal of thi s typical characteristic a bit disconcerting. Last year at osh, there was a high horsepower reduction unit on display whic h also had a clutch. an elegant solution IMHO: simply avoid the resonance i nstead of attempting to deal with it. I wonder what the Europa installed weight was for smart installation? Cheers, Pete a239 On Jan 29, 2012, at 6:58 PM, "uvtreith" <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote: > Hi Europa Family, > > I have installed the smart engine in my Monowheel XS. > This engine is made by Mercedes-Brabus with Turbo. > The engine is electronically controlled by the so called smart-MIP System. > More Info you will find - also in English - under: www.ecofly.de and www.s chicke-electronic.de > I paid complete with engine frame, all accessories (but used a water coole r from a Kawasaki 1200 and they changed the operating panel according to my d rawing) and the smart-MIP system around 11.000 EUR. > When the engine is finished after about 2.000 operating hours, you just ge t a new smart/Mercedes engine for about 4.500 EUR (Ecofly will do the change for you-if you like). > > Today we made some ground tests by -4=C2=B0C and a static thrust test by W arp Drive setting on 14=C2=B0 (best cruise). The max. engine rpm was 4.500, b ut the engine can do as maximum 5.800 rpm. > The static thrust test was measured by a digital spring scale and was show ing 145 kp, so now we will change the blade setting to 12=C2=B0. Our aim is t o get 180-200 kp. > > More info later, if you like. > Best Regards, > > Bruno Reith > > > > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Kevin Kedward > Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Januar 2012 21:11 > An: Europa-List@matronics.com > Betreff: Europa-List: Smart > > > Hi Guys, What happened to the Smart car engine installation ? > Regards > Kevin > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > <D-EUVT ground tests.JPG>


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:51:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down??
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Pete, I hope you are correct. Perhaps we'll hear from Steve or Jos soon. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 29, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Pete wrote: > I truly hope it was hacked, and it is not the case that Steve and Jos (after all their years of work to keep the site going) would simply kill all the data kindly contributed from many others without notification and offering up the data to someone else to re-publish! > > Cheers, > (concerned) Pete > A239


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:45:31 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: Smart
    On Jan 29, 2012, at 3:58 PM, uvtreith wrote: > I have installed the smart engine in my Monowheel XS. > This engine is made by Mercedes-Brabus with Turbo. > The engine is electronically controlled by the so called smart-MIP > System. Bruno...thanks for the update...your plane looks EXQUISITE...I wish mine were ready for ground tests! What does it weigh? What do you figure your engine installed weight to be? All the best...keep us informed, Fred




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