---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/30/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:50 AM - Jabiru (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 01:51 AM - Re: Re: Spar socket failure (article in the clubmagazine) (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 3. 02:19 AM - Re: Jabiru (Carl Meek) 4. 02:31 AM - Model Europa from Philippines (Carl Meek) 5. 03:51 AM - Re: Re: Classic Exhaust mount - anti-seize compound necessary? (Frank Mycroft) 6. 04:32 AM - Re: AW: Smart (Peter Zutrauen) 7. 07:05 AM - Re: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Jeff B) 8. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? (Robert Borger) 9. 08:01 AM - Duke Engineering (bill mcclellan) 10. 08:30 AM - Re: Duke Engineering (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 11. 08:52 AM - Re: Duke Engineering (Peter Zutrauen) 12. 09:12 AM - Re: Duke Engineering (Fred Klein) 13. 03:10 PM - Europa Owners Web Site (Robert Borger) 14. 04:54 PM - Re: Europa Owners Web Site (Matthew Carpenter) 15. 11:20 PM - Re: Europa Owners Web Site (Carl Meek) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:08 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Europa-List: Jabiru Some of you might remember I said I only knew of one successful Jab6 instal lation? Well I had an interesting conversation with-=0Aa guy-who's-be en happy with his for a few years now. Sensenich 2 blade prop, 3 blades-a re-not ideal on a Jab6 because of-=0Acrank resonance issues which I had n't heard about. There isn't much useful info about Jabs although must admi t I don't look far.=0A=0AI wonder what the Mach no of the prop tips at 150 knots and 3300 rpm? Must be going-super critical, around .65 ish?=0AWith a wooden prop the blades need to be-thicker-and that isn't good for hig h speed. Are Sensenich using-super critical-sections?=0AGraham ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:41 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Spar socket failure (article in the clubmagazine) Andreas Doblehof has a very elegant and simple way of rigging his Europa Cl assic (mono)=0ALast time I met him was at Vorslau in Austria. There might b e pictures on the forum somewhere?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________=0A From: Martin Olliver =0ATo: europa-list@ma tronics.com =0ASent: Friday, 13 January 2012, 21:51=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Spar socket failure (article in the clubmagazine)=0A =0A--> Europa-Lis t message posted by: "Martin Olliver" =0A=0AHi Roland. What type of rigging aid did you purchase? I am thinking of going the solo rigging route, any other's out there with ideas on the best way to do this? =0AMartin.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.ma ============= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jabiru From: Carl Meek I'm the owner of G-CGNZ, another Jab6 installation. I also use the Sensenich 2 blade. Regards, -Carl. From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Europa-List: Jabiru Some of you might remember I said I only knew of one successful Jab6 installation? Well I had an interesting conversation with a guy who's been happy with his for a few years now. Sensenich 2 blade prop, 3 blades are not ideal on a Jab6 because of crank resonance issues which I hadn't heard about. There isn't much useful info about Jabs although must admit I don't look far. I wonder what the Mach no of the prop tips at 150 knots and 3300 rpm? Must be going super critical, around .65 ish? With a wooden prop the blades need to be thicker and that isn't good for high speed. Are Sensenich using super critical sections? Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:26 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Model Europa from Philippines From: Carl Meek Following a thread on here a little while ago I decided to order a model of my Europa. They've just sent me the pictures for approval before they ship to me. Looks rather good.... Attached! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:43 AM PST US From: "Frank Mycroft" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic Exhaust mount - anti-seize compound necessary? Christoph I have no problem dropping the exhaust assembly on my Classic. You only have to remove the front two manifold connections, the pipe to the cabin heat, and the springs and the whole assembly will drop down. I squirt WD40 into the two vertical sliding connections and as long as the two sides are lowered equally there is no problem. If one side drops just a bit more than the other they will lock up, and the same when replacing the assembly. I have never had any signs of fretting of the sliding joints or even leakage at the manifold, although I have never used any sort of sealant. Frank Mycroft ----- Original Message ----- From: Christoph Both To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Classic Exhaust mount - anti-seize compound necessary? Hello Classic Europa builders and flyers: I need some advice if I need to bother putting anti-seize compound to the header/cylinder head connection and in particular applying it to the mating exhaust tube connections sliding together all 4 headers and the muffler assembly. The Classic set up leaves much to be desired in regard to possible needs to occasionally disassemble the muffler/header combination to get under the engine for possible initial inspections during the first 25 hours of flight service. I am concerned that the tubes might be getting pitted and stuck preventing easy on filed disassembly - is this the case? On the other hand I don't like to introduce less friction between the mating tube parts during engine running perhaps created by the anti-seizing compound acting like a grease, thus allowing easier fretting of the stainless steel tubes. Your advice is much appreciated. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 1:57 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Hi! Graham /all Right on the money ! ...and I certainly know a good amount of the hassle associated with the subject! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 27 January 2012 16:44 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Hi Paul I agree with everything you say, I would add that even now the Jab is still not a viable alternative (imho) I onlyknow of one successful Jab 6 owner and he isn't completely satisfied. Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Paul McAllister To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012, 16:17 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Viking Aircraft engine Guys, I'll toss my 2 cents worth into the ring on alternative engines. Fristly I would like to preface my comments with the statement that if we didn't try new things then we would be still flying with stuff powered from designs that trace there roots back 50 years. Come to think of it, if we didn't try new stuff then we wouldn't be even flying Europa's. Installing alternative power plants is not for the faint of heart, even proven designs. I recently completed some cooling modifications to my 914 and it was a lot of testing, work, re work and more testing. My modifications are trivial compared to something like a Viking. Even conventional conversions such as the Jabaru have taken a lot of collective effort to get them to the point of being a viable alternative. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying alternatives, but please be aware that once you move away from the original design that you moving down a path that will consume considerable resources. Cheers, Paul http://www.matro=================== = http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= uropa-List Email Forum - > :p> /o:p> tor?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ============= bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - :p> tp://forums.matronics.com ============= bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:51 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: Smart Silly Ipad's auto-spell-check :-( Should have read: "which destroys so many of the *experimental* reduction drives." Cheers, Pete On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Pete wrote: > Looks like a nice concept and execution. I like their implementation of > the reduction drive's centrifugal clutch which engages at around 1800 rpm - > likely avoiding the low rpm resonance peak which destroys so many of the > exponential reduction drives. Their manual is also quite detailed about t he > operating constraints for the turbo etc. > > It was my understanding from my EAA colleges that when the prop/engine > combination goes into resonance (typically at low rpms) the power > dissipated in the gearbox or any type of dissipating coupling (like the > rubber one in the Viking) goes up exponentially. Wrt the Viking, i found > Jan's dismissal of this typical characteristic a bit disconcerting. > > Last year at osh, there was a high horsepower reduction unit on display > which also had a clutch. an elegant solution IMHO: simply avoid the > resonance instead of attempting to deal with it. > > I wonder what the Europa installed weight was for smart installation? > > Cheers, > Pete > a239 > > On Jan 29, 2012, at 6:58 PM, "uvtreith" wrote: > > ** ** ** ** > > Hi Europa Family,**** > > ** ** > > I have installed the smart engine in my Monowheel XS.**** > > This engine is made by Mercedes-Brabus with Turbo. **** > > The engine is electronically controlled by the so called smart-MIP System .. > **** > > More Info you will find - also in English - under: www.ecofly.de and > www.schicke-electronic.de **** > > I paid complete with engine frame, all accessories (but used a water > cooler from a ****Kawasaki**** 1200 and they changed the operating panel > according to my drawing) and the smart-MIP system around 11.000 EUR.**** > > When the engine is finished after about 2.000 operating hours, you just > get a new smart/Mercedes engine for about 4.500 EUR (Ecofly will do the > change for you-if you like).**** > > ** ** > > Today we made some ground tests by -4=B0C and a static thrust test by *** *Warp > Drive**** setting on 14=B0 (best cruise). The max. engine rpm was 4.500, > but the engine can do as maximum 5.800 rpm.**** > > The static thrust test was measured by a digital spring scale and was > showing 145 kp, so now we will change the blade setting to 12=B0. Our aim is > to get 180-200 kp.**** > > ** ** > > More info later, if you like.**** > > Best Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Bruno Reith**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Kevin Kedward > Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Januar 2012 21:11 > An: Europa-List@matronics.com > Betreff: Europa-List: Smart > > ** ** > * > * > > ** ** > > Hi Guys, What happened to the Smart car engine installation ?**** > > Regards **** > > Kevin **** > > ** ** > > Sent from my iPhone**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > ******** > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:43 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? All, This is only speculation, but it looks as though the site has been hacked, as I've been receiving "junk" mail from the email addresses of some of the members, here. Jeff - Baby Blue On 1/29/2012 8:37 AM, jglazener wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "jglazener" > > I very much hope not. It would seem a bit strange that after all those years and all the work they have put into it they would just shut it down without warning, and leave only a cryptic and cynical remark. > > I put a lot of effort into the Gallery, and basically its the only record I have of my build. It would not exactly make my day if it had all just vanished.. > > Jeroen > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365102#365102 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: EuropaOwners.Org Has Shut Down?? From: Robert Borger Europaphiles, I don't have Steve D's e-mail address so I can't contact him. I did send an e-mail to Jos at the last e-mail address I had for him. Hopefully, things can be put back to normal before too long. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 30, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Jeff B wrote: > > All, > > This is only speculation, but it looks as though the site has been hacked, as I've been receiving "junk" mail from the email addresses of some of the members, here. > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > On 1/29/2012 8:37 AM, jglazener wrote: >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "jglazener" >> >> I very much hope not. It would seem a bit strange that after all those years and all the work they have put into it they would just shut it down without warning, and leave only a cryptic and cynical remark. >> >> I put a lot of effort into the Gallery, and basically its the only record I have of my build. It would not exactly make my day if it had all just vanished.. >> >> Jeroen >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365102#365102 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:49 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Duke Engineering From: "bill mcclellan" Probably many of us have seen this new concept engine out of New Zealand. Sure looks to have potential. Though there have been many new ideas that never get to production, this company, Duke Engineering has taken it pretty far along the development path. The company claims still at least 2 years out. The have gained some international company support (money). Below is a good youtube showing how it works and also the link to the Dukes website. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bny77SEefQ&feature=related http://www.dukeengines.com/ Bill McClellan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365222#365222 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:26 AM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Duke Engineering Interestingly, when you go to the You Tube site, a number of other "new concept" engines come up on the right side of the screen. There appear to be a lot of people working on alternatives to the usual four stroke engine. Jim Puglise ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill mcclellan" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 10:58:44 AM Subject: Europa-List: Duke Engineering Probably many of us have seen this new concept engine out of New Zealand. Sure looks to have potential. Though there have been many new ideas that never get to production, this company, Duke Engineering has taken it pretty far along the development path. The company claims still at least 2 years out. The have gained some international company support (money). Below is a good youtube showing how it works and also the link to the Dukes website. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bny77SEefQ&feature=related http://www.dukeengines.com/ Bill McClellan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365222#365222 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:01 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Duke Engineering I was really hoping that the Gemini made it..... but of course it didn't. http://www.experimentalaircraft.info/homebuilt-aircraft/aircraft-diesel-gemini100.php The numbers all added up right, and was diesel :-) Oh well. Cheers, Pete On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM, wrote: > Interestingly, when you go to the You Tube site, a number of other "new > concept" engines come up on the right side of the screen. There appear to > be a lot of people working on alternatives to the usual four stroke > engine. > > Jim Puglise > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"bill mcclellan" > *To: *europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent: *Monday, January 30, 2012 10:58:44 AM > *Subject: *Europa-List: Duke Engineering > > > > > > Probably many of us have seen this new concept engine out of New Zealand. > Sure looks to have potential. Though there have been many new ideas that > never get to production, this company, Duke Engineering has taken it pretty > far along the development path. The company claims still at least 2 years > out. The have gained some international company support (money). Below is > a good youtube showing how it works and also the link to the Dukes website. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bny77SEefQ&feature=related > > http://www.dukeengines.com/ > > Bill McClellan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/vie; -Matt Dralle, List > Admin.======= > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:59 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Duke Engineering > Interestingly, when you go to the You Tube site, a number of other > "new concept" engines come up on the right side of the screen. > There appear to be a lot of people working on alternatives to the > usual four stroke engine. If I was in the small aircraft powerplant business, I'd be putting my R & D $ in electrics... Think about it...the $ required to develop and get to market a new concept internal combustion engine...simply enormous, and how big is that market? The investors were not too kind to the talented folks behind the Gemini engine. Fred ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:47 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Europa-List: Europa Owners Web Site Fellow Europaphiles, It appears that Steve is looking for a new server for the organization website. "So long and thanks for all the fish...... due to circumstances beyond our control, server we live on will not be available. I'm currently looking for a home for at least the gallery.... SteveD" Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:44 PM PST US From: Matthew Carpenter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Owners Web Site I have several servers that are setting at Datacenters, I would be happy to host the web site. SteveD, please contact me. Matt Carpenter On Jan 30, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > Fellow Europaphiles, > > It appears that Steve is looking for a new server for the organization website. > > "So long and thanks for all the fish...... due to circumstances beyond our control, server we live on will not be available. I'm currently looking for a home for at least the gallery.... SteveD" > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:42 PM PST US From: Carl Meek Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Owners Web Site Hopefully Matt has solved the problem, if not I also have servers and can he lp. Sent from my iPhone On 31 Jan 2012, at 00:49, Matthew Carpenter wrote: > I have several servers that are setting at Datacenters, I would be happy t o host the web site. > > SteveD, please contact me. > > Matt Carpenter > > On Jan 30, 2012, at 5:07 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > >> Fellow Europaphiles, >> >> It appears that Steve is looking for a new server for the organization we bsite. >> >> "So long and thanks for all the fish...... due to circumstances beyond ou r control, server we live on will not be available. I'm currently looking fo r a home for at least the gallery.... SteveD" >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.