Europa-List Digest Archive

Sat 02/04/12


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:03 AM - AW: AW: Deformation of canopy (uvtreith)
     2. 02:48 AM - Deformation of canopy - Rear Pull handles (Gerry Holland)
     3. 03:00 AM - Re: AW: Deformation of canopy (houlihan)
     4. 03:46 AM - Re: Deformation of canopy - Rear Pull handles (Roland)
     5. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: Cover for the vacuum pump mount necessary? (david park)
     6. 04:23 AM - Re: Re: Cover for the vacuum pump mount necessary? (Robert Borger)
     7. 05:31 AM - AW: AW: Deformation of canopy (uvtreith)
     8. 09:03 AM - Re: AW: Deformation of canopy (G-IANI)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:03:28 AM PST US
    From: "uvtreith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
    Subject: Deformation of canopy
    Hi Raimo, In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it. I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side. Have a nice and safe flight time too. All the best, Bruno _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi Bruno, I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed. Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed. Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them. I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;) *** Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening. Just my =BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you! Raimo Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa A2A-ala2OK Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 <mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to <http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi From: uvtreith <mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi Roland, I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while. The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schlo=DFschraube). Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each. In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out. Best Regards, Bruno -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi all, yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right! After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear. I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged. Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again? Thanks for your input! Regards Roland PH-ZTI Trigear XS Rotax 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:48:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Deformation of canopy - Rear Pull handles
    From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>
    Bruno Hi! Raimo too. These door switches work well although mounting them to ensure good contact with switch actuator needs thought and trial. Another helpful addition to that rear lower door area area lightweight ''D' Handles that you can reach back and pull inboard to ensure shoot bolt alignment. You can buy them from Hardware Store and they are normally lightweight and anodised. Some examples of the range. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_kw=D&_kw=drawer&_kw=handles I mounted mine on a Inspection plate I added to get access to rear shoot bolt if required. You can just see one in this photo. Regards Gerry


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:00:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Deformation of canopy
    From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Hi Bruno. Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !. ( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<)) That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft. Tim On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote: > ** > > Hi Raimo,**** > > ** ** > > In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on > doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. > But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my > opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts > should be do it.**** > > I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for th e > passenger side.**** > > Have a nice and safe flight time too.**** > > ** ** > > All the best,**** > > Bruno**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *Von:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *Im Auftrag von *Raimo Toivio > *Gesendet:* Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03 > *An:* **europa-list@matronics.com** > *Betreff:* Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy**** > > ** ** > > Hi Bruno,**** > > **** > > I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches > per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green > leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed. **** > > **** > > Otherwice, they are open OR *system is somehow broken*. Two Greens = Th e > System is operational = The Doors are closed.**** > > **** > > Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of > greens or change MS=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I > have them.**** > > **** > > I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you wil l > be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;)**** > > **** > > ******* > > **** > > Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an > unwanted inflight door opening.**** > > **** > > Just my =BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luc k > for you!**** > > **** > > Raimo**** > > **** > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > [image: Europa A2A-ala2OK] > > **** > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417**** > > Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466 > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi**** > > ** ** > > **** > > *From:* uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> **** > > *Sent:* Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM**** > > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com **** > > *Subject:* AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy**** > > **** > > Hi Roland,**** > > **** > > I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer > days; maybe it will set by itself after a while. **** > > The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in > springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a > common carriage bolt (Schlo=DFschraube).**** > > Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one > mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 > gramm each.**** > > In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro > switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go > out.**** > > Best Regards,**** > > **** > > Bruno **** > > **** > > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland > Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32 > An: ****europa-list@matronics.com**** > Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy**** > > **** > > > **** > > Hi all,**** > > **** > > yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After > departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-sid e > was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot > happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so > right!**** > > **** > > After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came > crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely > depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did > the same on the rear.**** > > **** > > I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the > aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, > that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that > the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this > resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the > roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The > hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged. **** > > **** > > Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit > again?**** > > **** > > Thanks for your input!**** > > **** > > Regards**** > > Roland**** > > **** > > PH-ZTI**** > > Trigear XS **** > > Rotax 914**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > Read this topic online here:**** > > **** > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518**** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > **** > > **** >


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:46:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Deformation of canopy - Rear Pull handles
    From: "Roland" <schmidtroland@web.de>
    Gerry, Bruno and Raimo, thanks for your thoughts and solutions (and photos of course). The first thing I did was a special mark on my checklist. I think this won't happen again after that horrible experience. But adding a backup like those switches might be a very good idea as well. Another lesson learned was that I should have reduced the speed since it would have been much more easy to lock the door at 60 kts rather than 120 kts. I'm not keen on taking the door out or giving my Europa to a repair shop but the sound it makes when opening the door (after the resistance when opening it a crack at the point when the edge of the door springs over the frame)doesn't appear very healthy to me. I located a towel between frame and door (and locked it) to apply some pressure on the appropriate part of the door. I'll wait for some days and see what happens. Gerry, I also have those D-handels. They work well (when using them). Raimo, how did you know? Temperatures were around -3C on the ground. That was also a flight to find out, if I would need a heating system for next winter. For a local flight I don't think I'll need one but for a longer trip or even lower temperatures it is worth thinking about it. I guess you have the best solutions up north. Another factor to deal with is the low oil temperature of only 60C in cruise. In my opinion the best would be a curtain at the air intake controlled from the cockpit with a bowden cable. I think I'll create a new topic when time comes. Happy (and save) landings Roland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365597#365597


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:54:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cover for the vacuum pump mount necessary?
    From: david park <dpark748@hotmail.co.uk>
    On the subject, If the cover is just to prevent fod entering the hole surely a simple piece of alloy, drilled and fitted on to the studs is all that is required? I went for all electric and that is what i have done . Dave Sent from my iPhone On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:37, "Robert Borger" <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: > > Juergen, > > No problem! I just wanted to make sure folks knew that the best parts available were discussed with Lockwood. > > My engine is also from 2004. Yes, one must be careful when ordering any accessory that connects to the back of the gearbox. There have been changes to the accessory pad over the years. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Feb 3, 2012, at 2:38 PM, europapa wrote: > >> >> Sorry Bob, >> >> didn't want to blame anybody. >> My engine is from 2004. >> That means you have to be careful when ordering a vacuum pump. >> >> Juergen > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:23:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cover for the vacuum pump mount necessary?
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    David, Yes, a simple alloy plate should do. The fancier plate and gasket provided by Rotax seem to be most useful it you are removing prop governor. In which case there is an oil channel required on the cover plate which completes an oil passage on the governor adaptor. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Feb 4, 2012, at 5:52 AM, david park wrote: > > On the subject, > If the cover is just to prevent fod entering the hole surely a simple piece of alloy, drilled and fitted on to the studs is all that is required? I went for all electric and that is what i have done . Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 3 Feb 2012, at 21:37, "Robert Borger" <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: > >> >> Juergen, >> >> No problem! I just wanted to make sure folks knew that the best parts available were discussed with Lockwood. >> >> My engine is also from 2004. Yes, one must be careful when ordering any accessory that connects to the back of the gearbox. There have been changes to the accessory pad over the years. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On Feb 3, 2012, at 2:38 PM, europapa wrote: >> >>> >>> Sorry Bob, >>> >>> didn't want to blame anybody. >>> My engine is from 2004. >>> That means you have to be careful when ordering a vacuum pump. >>> >>> Juergen >> >> >> >> > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:31:43 AM PST US
    From: "uvtreith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
    Subject: Deformation of canopy
    Hi Tim, I will use the pippin for secure the airplane on the ground. On my side I will use a key lock. Thanks for that advise. Bruno _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von houlihan Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Februar 2012 11:57 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi Bruno. Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !. ( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<)) That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft. Tim On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote: Hi Raimo, In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it. I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side. Have a nice and safe flight time too. All the best, Bruno _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi Bruno, I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed. Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed. Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them. I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;) *** Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening. Just my =BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you! Raimo Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa A2A-ala2OK Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 <mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to <http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi From: uvtreith <mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi Roland, I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while. The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schlo=DFschraube). Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each. In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out. Best Regards, Bruno -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy Hi all, yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right! After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear. I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged. Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again? Thanks for your input! Regards Roland PH-ZTI Trigear XS Rotax 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:03:16 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Deformation of canopy
    To follow up on the point made by Tim "That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft". It is not allowed on LAA aircraft in the UK. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com




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