Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:16 AM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= =?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29? (Max Cointe)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Deformation of canopy (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
3. 10:09 AM - Re: Deformation of canopy (Raimo Toivio)
4. 11:44 AM - Re: Deformation of canopy (Raimo Toivio)
5. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Deformation of canopy (Raimo Toivio)
6. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Deformation of canopy (Raimo Toivio)
7. 01:41 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= =?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29? (Raimo Toivio)
8. 02:47 PM - =?utf-8?Q?Re:__Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= =?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29? (Max Cointe)
9. 07:06 PM - Any ideals (AirEupora)
Message 1
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| Subject: | f-8?Q?RE:_Europa-List:_Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= |
=?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29?
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought
F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident
with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we=99ll never
know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big
stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on
the tail BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on
climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard
pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without
trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps
and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in
the luggage on the back). For sure it didn=99t happened at 130Kt
IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying
over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot
reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the
tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this
incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a
VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before
jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning),
verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable
when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach
passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and
done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the
handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God
as I=99m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner)
will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay
more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after
executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 7 f=C3=A9vrier 2012 23:16
=C3 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more safety
or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly
experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later
experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your
passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless
manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a
child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency
landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but
cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able
to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will
die because of that door pip-pin a=C2=B4la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the
builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the
flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy
to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open,
separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow
is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the
final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost
impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other
door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an
emergency landing with full power. No =93 I did not want to
experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line =9Cbefore
emergency landing take the door pip-pins out=9D. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because
understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the
flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked
when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are
also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to
lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi
=93 easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not
try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts
engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it
surely. What more important =93 those doors would love to open
during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember =93 once I tried to open the door of our Cessna
during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300
mm, no more.
BTW =93 Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it
without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then
and think: =9C hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway
=9C. RIP =93 he followed strictly every possible rules to
the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in
Europa=C2=B4s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in
UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge
yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original
auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No
matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you =93 the builder -
are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using
pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet =93 nothing
is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about
flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to
hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time
goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a
smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new
passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also
that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they
all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the
flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would
have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
Europa A2A-ala2OK
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
<mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan <mailto:houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could
impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if
you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger
it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on
= doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is
ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my
opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts
should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for
the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
_____
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo
Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro
switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have
two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The
System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of
greens or change MS=C2=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are
open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you
will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;)
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an
unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my =C2=BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good
luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non sp=C3=A9cifi=C3=A9.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
<mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith <mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer
days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in
springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together
with a common carriage bolt (Schlo=C3=9Fschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one
mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights
35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro
switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go
out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After
departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the
copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying:
"that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take
off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came
crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most
likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front
and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the
aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned
out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a
way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing
this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame
contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems
normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently
undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit
again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
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| Subject: | Re: Deformation of canopy |
A little left rudder and you may pick up a couple knots:)
Cheers, Kevin
On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:59 AM, "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Second pic: heading to north-north-east, GPS still 154 knots.
> Third pic: Dynon shows HDG 17 degrees, IAS 141 kts, TAS 164 kts, practically
level flight, wind was from south 10-15 knots.
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| Subject: | Re: Deformation of canopy |
Grand Uncle Bob from UK,
is not that wonderful: normal ageing men have to get therapy and visit
regularly rehabilitation centres but Europa owners just fly and service
their machine to keep their body and head in a reasonable shape.
I am happy they are not older =93 but they will too quickly. Older
one has decided to be one day an Army Helicopter Pilot.
Those girls (attached) send you warm wishes and invite you to fly here
to be our guest 1-3. of June 2012. How about that?
Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland
do not archive
From: Bob Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:07 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi! Raimo,
Yes I concur with all you say and watch out for =9Cthe old
man=9D coming on !
I can still get my head round to see my rear port door but
there=99s no way I could reach behind but also I do know it is
properly shut when I close it anyway so I don=99t really depend on
the passenger but it gives them a thrill to be involved !
Motto is never trust anyone , that=99s why I would never have a
partner during the build .
Best regards ........and love to Marke and =9Cthe girls=9D
they must love their flying Dad. Such a pity they aren=99t older
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: 07 February 2012 20:14
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Bob,
you got it =93 we are not contortionists =93 we are pilots.
At the age 50-100 it is a hard task to practise to be a contortionist
=93 pilot.
I have noticed during last years even pick up the safety belts from the
back when sitting there it not too easy (that is why I like to keep
children on the back seat =93 they can give me my belts).
Asking Co-pilot to verify is the door secured or not is a bit risky: how
can you be sure if she/he understand what you really mean?
The door rubber seals make the door a bit tight. I have noticed it is
easy to close when pressing the frame down by my elbow and same time
push the lever gently fore.
***
Total fool proof system would be if you cannot fire your engine in the
case bolts are not in.
Van=C2=B4s 12: you cannot fire the engine if the wing main pip-pins are
not correctly installed.
That is better than a note in POH or even a warning light.
Wishes,
Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland
From: Bob Harrison
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 11:47 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi! Fred/Raimo.
I have a couple of wood =9Cpull handles=9D on the rear
portion of each door to ensure they are shut. I have to say they are
never used because I would need to be a damn contortionist to get at
them from the Europa seat positions. If Raimo=99s system is fool
proof then go for it but I use my eyes on the starboard side and ask the
passenger to check port side to verify they are closed and the bolt is
=9Chome=9D.
Over 800 hours perhaps 900 and never yet a take off with a door not
properly closed.
Regards
Bob Harrison (G-PTAG)
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: 06 February 2012 20:44
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Fred
that is true. An ideal Europa=C2=B4s weight is around 350 kgs (below 790
lbs). That is possible w/o any extra. Also, it takes time to plan and
build extra. They are also not free!
I have that extra 70 kgs (160 lbs). More is coming!
Why?
- for a good look and luxury (painting, leather, DVD, refridgerator,
heating and defrost system etc, golden register plate etc means about 15
kgs 34 lbs penalty).
- for a safety (warning systems, extra navigation, autopilot, 2nd GPS,
TCAS, alarms, horn, nav-lights, 3 strobos, landing and taxi lights,
panel and a cockpit illumination etc, real aviation safety belts x 4 etc
means about 20 kgs 44 lbs penalty).
- for a speed and efficiency (CS-prop, very finished surfaces and glossy
painting means about 20 kgs 44 lbs penalty).
- for a family (it is 2+2 seater and that was for structural reasons and
extra belts and four place intercom about 10 kgs 22 lbs penalty).
- for me and my wife (good tempur seats, some small details, decoration
etc say 5 kgs 11 lbs penalty)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
That is all together 70 kgs and those kilos make Romeo Tango
personalized for our taste.
For me it was the best part of the building to think about all these
extras and judge what to do and what do not.
***
Door bolts warning system:
2xmicroswitch (4 is not necessary)
some wire
one led (two is not necessary)
connected to the fuse you already have
Penalty is not more than 0,1 kg = 0,225 lbs.
You will build it about 2 hours only.
And spend money let=C2=B4s say few bugs like 20 dollars.
It is a bit ackward to check rearbolts. Really. At least my body does
not want to twist to the left so much. It is dangerous to your healthy.
It is human not to do it always. But it is easy to check one green led.
Very easy!
You can still have your statement PULL DOOR INWARD BEFORE LATCHING and
then verify you have the green led.
Do it, for me please!
Raimo OH-XRT
Finland
From: Fred Klein
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: AW: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:06 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
If green (should be red then!) off means bolts are in, how can you be
pretty sure system is ok? If you loose your microswitch or led or fuse
your greens are off and you think bolts are in but maybe they are not.
All,
I have followed this thread with interest as it seems to embody the
tension between keeping things simple on one hand and fitting out our
planes sufficiently to ensure safe flight on the other.
I've paid some attention to the issue of ensuring the rear shoot-bolts
engage because when fitting the doors, I found that the rear portion of
the door seemed to spring outward just enough for the rear shoot-bolts
to miss the aluminum tubing which prevented proper closure...not good!
After sitting in the left seat...twisting my body and reaching about to
determine where I could reach in order to pull in the aft portion of the
door prior to closing the lever and engaging the shoot-bolts...I
installed a simple tab on the window frames (both port and stbd) which I
could grip and pull inward. One thing I noticed while checking out my
little ergonomics exercise was that I found that I could not feel
whether or not the shoot-bolts were properly engaged or not, nor could I
readily see likewise. The fundemental idea I took away from these
exercises was that it was essential to pull the rear portion of the
window/door inward BEFORE moving the latching handle forward.
As luck would have it, after installing the plexiglas windows, I found
that the additional weight completely eliminates the tendency for the
rear portion of the window/door to spring outward and for the
shoot-bolts to not engage; however, I have not as yet fitted the tubular
rubber seal...so perhaps the conditions may change.
My hunch at this point is that my checklist MUST include an item
stating: PULL DOOR INWARD BEFORE LATCHING.
For the moment, I'm content with that and will not add the additional
complexity of a warning light system. I've had a look at about 20
Europas and, I believe, have yet to see a microswitch/LED
installation...I'm wondering how common are such installations.
Fred
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| Subject: | Re: Deformation of canopy |
Fred
From: Fred Klein
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
On Feb 7, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
we are not contortionists ' we are pilots. At the age 50-100 it is a
hard task to practise to be a contortionist ' pilot.
...fascinating topic...
Raimo...a couple of questions...
- When you say you are not a contortionist, are you saying that...while
sitting in the left seat cockpit...you either CANNOT, or find it
extremely difficult to, pull the rear of your window/door inward if the
rear shoot-bolt doesn't engage properly?...
If I had to pull the rear of my door inward, that would be quite
challenging. Happily it is not necessary in Romeo Tango=B4s case at all,
because it goes =93automatically=94 right. My practise is to press
window frame down by my left elbow and same time push the lever gently
fore.
- If so, what happens when you don't get a "green" lite?
I get it always. My doors are not very tight. I did not used Europa
suplied door rubber weather strip. I found my own version of the rubber
seal. But if I could not get =93green=94, I would try again in that
case. What else?
- How often do you not get a "green" lite after latching your
window/door?
In my case so far never. Notice: in my case. You cannot trust it. Me
neither.
What I'm trying to understand is whether or not your window/door
installation was perfect or near perfect resulting in virtually 100%
engagement of rear shoot-bolt when latching and thus your warning lite
system merely gives you some peace of mind.
When building I did not know how easy it will be to close the doors when
completed. I built the warning systems just in case. BUT ' one single
time having a rear bolt outside is too much and can lead to fatal. That
is why I would build it again with this knowledge. In fact ' when the
doors close easily you are not concentrating to this procedure. Easy
closing doors are kind of risk...that is why you also need a warning
system ' positive or negative or both.
As mentioned previously, I feared that my rear shoot-bolts would NOT
engage properly UNLESS I was able to include some means of pulling the
rear of the window inward...and my little ergonomic investigation showed
me that if I installed a little tab on the window frame...approximately
in line with the CM "head rest"...this would do the trick, without my
needing to be a contortionist. This works for both port and stbd windows
as I, like others, do not want to depend on a passenger to tell me if
everything's aok.
After I had read this I went to my winter-hangar, which is behind the
wall of my office. Sat down to the P1 seat and noticed this place for a
little tab in line with head rest would do without a snakebody. Ten
inches back and it would be hard to reach it. But IF you once forget to
use your tab OR it is not necessary to use it at all ' the destiny is
behind you.
(For the port window, I reach my right arm across my chest to pull the
tab inward while my left hand pushes the door handle forward...for the
stdb window, I reach my right arm behind the passenger's "head rest" and
pull inward while passenger [or I] push the door handle forward...no
contorting necessary...and whether I have a warning lite system or not,
I still anticipate going thru these motions when securing the
window/doors.)
If you happen to manage to build perfect doors, they will be closed very
easily. As advertised. Then there is a risk sometimes for some reason
you are a bit more careless than normal and your rear bolt is out and
you have no idea about that w/o a warning device until you notice that
airborne at 5000 ft and start to fight for your passenger(s), plane and
your soul.
Build a warning or/and ok systems. I will send you all the necessary
bits (a DC12V led with a nice collar (colour of your choise), two
microswithes and 10ft of high quality teflon aviation wire and a
schematic drawing. How about that (valid only for you and one week
only)?
What more you need?
Build warning devices ' fly more safe!
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
Fred
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Deformation of canopy |
Kevin,
I was sure somebody will pick this jerk. Good.
No, it flies direct.
Me - a stupid first time builder - understood to
assembly the balls (Dynon and conventional)
perfectly direct to the panel.
But when I installed the panel to the cockpit
module, It went unfortunately not perfectly
straight. I was happy I managed to put it there -
no idea to instal a panel straight! There is no
adjustment for instruments - the fixing holes are
round...not a beautiful C-shape.
It is on my long-time-list to straighten this
instrument. An ugly task, really.
Later I installed a CS-prop and it has a
control-head with a digital ball. That - my third
ball - is happily straight!
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Deformation of
canopy
klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com
A little left rudder and you may pick up a couple
knots:)
Cheers, Kevin
On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:59 AM, "Raimo Toivio"
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Second pic: heading to north-north-east, GPS
> still 154 knots.
> Third pic: Dynon shows HDG 17 degrees, IAS 141
> kts, TAS 164 kts, practically level flight, wind
> was from south 10-15 knots.
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Deformation of canopy |
Roland
I have to say I use typically 5000-5200 revs and
also I am not shy to use constant 5500 rpm.
When low, it shows if I want a manifold pressure
30-31 In hg A (912S).
Typically my MAP is around 25.
BTW earlier Rotax allowed all the combinations
with revs and MAP but I understood they have now
limited that revs must be then 5000 rpm or more.
My long time (over 200 hrs) average fuel burn is
17,7 l/hrs.
I have to say - it is a totally different bird
after she got a CS-prop (Airmaster - I am very
happy about it).
Before it 125@4800 was the name of the game too (I
had Warp Blades but do not remember the blade
angles, first 17 degrees, then maybe 19-20
degrees).
***
About Ban Bis /Dyn Aeros: is not it strange that
they advertice their cruise speed is fast than
their VNE ???
Dyn Aero 4S is also interesting; they claim it is
faster (AND lighter as empty) than typical Europa
with same engine and four adults omboard.
But the real miracle will be their new Twin-R -
two Rotaxes but it will fly happily with one
engine only...
***
About wife and escaping: That is true. This time
she was too tired to escape. I have to say this
was very first time ever including commercial
flights I have seen her sleeping (attached).
Finally I and our Europa have earned her full
confidence.
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
-----Alkuper=E4inen viesti-----
From: Roland
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:39 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Deformation of canopy
<schmidtroland@web.de>
Raimo,
I'm afraid my bird cannot compete to that numbers.
Tango India isn't slow (about 125 KIAS at 4800
RPM, don't ask me for MP, burning approximately 20
litres) but it is a Trigear albeit equipped with
speed kit. So you'll have to search further but
maybe rather in the Ban Bi community.
I understand your Europa is also powered by the
Rotax 914, right?
Don't worry about your wife - there are other
reasons keeping her from escaping your plane at
160 kts at 10 k ft - you won't need a pip pin for
that.
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365821#365821
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| Subject: | Re: f-8?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= |
=?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29?
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have
earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has
almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail =93 no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING
FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most
will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW =93 when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I
could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a
lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without
doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight
like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I=99m layman)
We too. I wrote =9CGod=9D to give an absolute & universal
meaning =9CThe Captain is The First of All in his /her
plane=9D.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care.
Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now =93 good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more
safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought
F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident
with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we=99ll never
know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big
stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on
the tail BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on
climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard
pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without
trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps
and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in
the luggage on the back). For sure it didn=99t happened at 130Kt
IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying
over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot
reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the
tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this
incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a
VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before
jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning),
verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable
when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach
passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and
done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the
handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God
as I=99m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner)
will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay
more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after
executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 7 f=C3=A9vrier 2012 23:16
=C3 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more safety
or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly
experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later
experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your
passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless
manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a
child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency
landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but
cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able
to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will
die because of that door pip-pin a=C2=B4la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the
builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the
flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy
to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open,
separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow
is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the
final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost
impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other
door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an
emergency landing with full power. No =93 I did not want to
experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line =9Cbefore
emergency landing take the door pip-pins out=9D. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because
understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the
flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked
when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are
also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to
lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi
=93 easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not
try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts
engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it
surely. What more important =93 those doors would love to open
during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember =93 once I tried to open the door of our Cessna
during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300
mm, no more.
BTW =93 Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it
without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then
and think: =9C hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway
=9C. RIP =93 he followed strictly every possible rules to
the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in
Europa=C2=B4s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in
UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge
yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original
auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No
matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you =93 the builder -
are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using
pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet =93 nothing
is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about
flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to
hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time
goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a
smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new
passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also
that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they
all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the
flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would
have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could
impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if
you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger
it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on
= doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is
ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my
opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts
should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for
the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo
Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro
switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have
two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The
System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of
greens or change MS=C2=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are
open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you
will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;)
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an
unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my =C2=BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good
luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non sp=C3=A9cifi=C3=A9.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer
days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in
springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together
with a common carriage bolt (Schlo=C3=9Fschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one
mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights
35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro
switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go
out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After
departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the
copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying:
"that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take
off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came
crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most
likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front
and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the
aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned
out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a
way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing
this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame
contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems
normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently
undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit
again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
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Message 8
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| Subject: | f-8?Q?RE:_Europa-List:_Pip-pins_in_the?= =?utf-8?Q?_Europa=C2=B4s_doors_-_more_safety_or?= |
=?utf-8?Q?_not=3F_=28earlier:_deformation_of_t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_canopy=29?
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but
it=99s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300
hours It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent
Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to
try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then
I=99ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger
and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over
there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 8 f=C3=A9vrier 2012 22:33
=C3 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more
safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have
earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has
almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail =93 no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING
FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most
will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW =93 when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I
could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a
lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without
doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight
like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I=99m layman)
We too. I wrote =9CGod=9D to give an absolute & universal
meaning =9CThe Captain is The First of All in his /her
plane=9D.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care.
Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now =93 good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe <mailto:mcointe@free.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more
safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought
F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident
with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we=99ll never
know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big
stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on
the tail BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on
climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard
pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without
trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps
and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in
the luggage on the back). For sure it didn=99t happened at 130Kt
IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying
over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot
reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the
tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this
incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a
VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before
jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning),
verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable
when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach
passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and
done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the
handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God
as I=99m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner)
will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay
more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after
executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 7 f=C3=A9vrier 2012 23:16
=C3 : europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa=C2=B4s doors - more safety
or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly
experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later
experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your
passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless
manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a
child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency
landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but
cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able
to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will
die because of that door pip-pin a=C2=B4la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the
builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the
flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy
to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open,
separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow
is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the
final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost
impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other
door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an
emergency landing with full power. No =93 I did not want to
experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line =9Cbefore
emergency landing take the door pip-pins out=9D. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because
understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the
flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked
when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are
also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to
lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi
=93 easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not
try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts
engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it
surely. What more important =93 those doors would love to open
during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember =93 once I tried to open the door of our Cessna
during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300
mm, no more.
BTW =93 Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it
without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then
and think: =9C hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway
=9C. RIP =93 he followed strictly every possible rules to
the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in
Europa=C2=B4s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in
UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge
yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original
auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No
matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you =93 the builder -
are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using
pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet =93 nothing
is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about
flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to
hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time
goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a
smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new
passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also
that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they
all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the
flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would
have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
Europa A2A-ala2OK
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
<mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan <mailto:houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could
impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if
you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger
it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith@t-online.de> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on
= doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is
ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my
opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts
should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for
the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
_____
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo
Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro
switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have
two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The
System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of
greens or change MS=C2=B4s to be NO (normally open [when doors are
open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you
will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! ;)
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an
unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my =C2=BD penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good
luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non sp=C3=A9cifi=C3=A9.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
<mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith <mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer
days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in
springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together
with a common carriage bolt (Schlo=C3=9Fschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one
mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights
35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro
switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go
out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After
departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the
copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying:
"that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take
off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came
crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most
likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front
and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the
aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned
out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a
way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing
this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame
contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems
normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently
undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit
again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
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I left the plastic film on my windows then left them out in the California summer
heat. Does anybody have any ideals as to how to remove its?
plus I got over spray on thee film.
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