Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:39 AM - Re: Pilot Handbook for XS tri gear (skanderup)
2. 02:09 AM - Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear (skanderup)
3. 02:30 AM - Re : Re: mode S (Remi Guerner)
4. 08:01 AM - Re: Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
5. 10:21 AM - Servers and email woes (Bud Yerly)
6. 12:12 PM - Re: Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear (stephen vestuti)
7. 12:22 PM - Re: Servers and email woes (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
8. 02:01 PM - Re: Jabiru and alternative engines (Bud Yerly)
9. 03:43 PM - Re: Jabiru and alternative engines (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Handbook for XS tri gear |
Hi All,
Thank you very much for your kind assistance. It is much appreciated.
All the best.
Allan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366121#366121
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear |
Hello every one,
Once again I would like to draw on your infinite amount of knowledge. My wife and
I were yesterday trying to fit the hinges for the flap cross tube.
The two hinge brackets, FL18P and FL18S were laid into the 90mm slots cut in the
bottom of the fuselage as per the manual. When threading a thin line between
the inner flap hinges it is clear that the FL18 are approximately 12mm too far
aft, even though they are hard against the aft bulkhead of the wheel wells.
See attached photo.
In order to fit them I am considering two options:
1. Cut about 12mm of the fitting plate part of the FL18 (see attached photo)
2. Make a cut out into the wheel wells to fit the brackets.
Personally I do not find it a good idea to follow no.2, as it will have severe
effect on the strength of the main landing gear and the force transfer to the
fuselage.
The first option is my preferred one, however I would like to hear other solutions
and suggestions.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366122#366122
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00081_20120211_1745_131.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00079_20120211_1743_153.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Re : Re: mode S |
Salut Jean Philippe,
Le doc est bien joint.
Je te l'envoie directement.
Remi
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366123#366123
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear |
Allan-
As I recall, I had the same problem. I chose to use a Dremel to square the wheel
well and slid the bracket slightly forward. I don't think it was nearly as much
as 12 mm. Your other option would be to fabricate new FL 18s. As delivered,
everything in this airplane "almost fits." During my build, the most common
phrase heard was "just make it fit."
Jim Puglise
Europa XS, Jabiru 3300
Punta Gorda, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "skanderup" <allan_skanderup@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 5:08:17 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear
Hello every one,
Once again I would like to draw on your infinite amount of knowledge. My wife and
I were yesterday trying to fit the hinges for the flap cross tube.
The two hinge brackets, FL18P and FL18S were laid into the 90mm slots cut in the
bottom of the fuselage as per the manual. When threading a thin line between
the inner flap hinges it is clear that the FL18 are approximately 12mm too far
aft, even though they are hard against the aft bulkhead of the wheel wells.
See attached photo.
In order to fit them I am considering two options:
1. Cut about 12mm of the fitting plate part of the FL18 (see attached photo)
2. Make a cut out into the wheel wells to fit the brackets.
Personally I do not find it a good idea to follow no.2, as it will have severe
effect on the strength of the main landing gear and the force transfer to the
fuselage.
The first option is my preferred one, however I would like to hear other solutions
and suggestions.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366122#366122
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00081_20120211_1745_131.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00079_20120211_1743_153.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Servers and email woes |
My apologies to all.
I have found my emails from the shop computer were not being sent but
were trapped in the server and of course I lost them when I cleared up
the matter. Wonderful things these computers, but I question if my life
is better. That said, I cannot catch up with guys on the list but you
will see a couple of comments posted to put my two cents in. Not that
is is necessary as the valuable information provided over the last month
(boy you guys are active) was spot on.
Best Regards from a frustrated computer user.
Bud Yerly,
Tech Support.
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Re: burping the 912
Frans
that is sufficiant reason for me to think that doing it before start
up makes good sense. Thanks for your patience to reason it all out!
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Frans Veldman
<frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 22:34
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Re: burping the 912
All in all, burping the engine removes some oil, regardless whether
this
is done immediately after shut down or just before start up, but doing
it just before startup has the benefit that the bearings are
relubricated and a potential hydraulic lock is detected in time.
Frans
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting hinge brackets for flaps on Tri gear |
skanderup,
Did you fit the temorary 12 3/4" spacer between the wheel well and seat back when
you bonded the cockpit module in ?
if not, when you load the module with weights for bonding , this gap can be splayed.
I think Nev, Bud or the Factory may be the best people to answer, I think it's
easily fixed though,
Steve.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366148#366148
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Servers and email woes |
You're not alone Bud!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent:
Sunday, 12 February 2012, 18:16=0ASubject: Europa-List: Servers and email
woes=0A =0A=0A=EF=BB =0AMy apologies to all.=0AI have found my emails f
rom the shop computer were not being sent but were =0Atrapped in the server
and of course I lost them when I cleared up the =0Amatter.=C2- Wonderful
things these computers, but I question if my life is =0Abetter.=C2- That
said, I cannot catch up with guys on the list but you will =0Asee a couple
of comments posted to put my two cents in.=C2- Not that is is =0Anecessa
ry as the valuable information provided over the last month (boy you guys
=0Aare active) was spot on.=0A=C2-=0ABest Regards from a frustrated compu
ter user.=0ABud Yerly,=0ATech Support.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru and alternative engines |
Graham, you are as succinct as always. Wish I could be.
Jabiru comments:
Disclaimer. As many of you know, I have a love/hate relationship with
every component attached to an aircraft. That said:
After considerable work we have tamed (sort of) the older Jabiru 3300
but it is not a plug and play engine installation in a Europa.
Problems/Solutions:
Cooling:
The lunch boxes on top do not work well. We extended the height,
changed all the baffling and modified both the Andy Sylvest and standard
Jabiru cowl. Opening the inlets to get about a 4-5 inch opening
diameter for inlet air minimum of 120-150 sq inches. Exit air has to be
augmented with the addition of a cowl flap style ramp dropping 4-5
inches below the cowl bottom to get enough draw. To allow sufficient
cooling during climb exit air should be about 400 square inches. Move
the inlets out to get as much prop blast for ground cooling as possible
and consider a movable cowl flap on the bottom air exit...
Oil cooler. Put a real oil cooler on your jab like the new install
manual. It needs it. A $32 JC Whitney cheap oil cooler is not
sufficient. The oil cooler must be ducted for proper cowl operation as
well as proper oil cooler performance.
Carb heat. The extra draw of the cowl bottom causes a significant
change in the air filter box pressures which upsets the Bing carby
momentarily. This can actually kill the engine when entering the
pattern for landing. Passengers don't like when the whirly thing up
front stops. I suggest a larger heat muff to improve the flow to the
airbox.
Intake manifold leaks. The Bing carby is a weak link in the Jab.
Tuning the long intake manifold pipes, ensuring they are sealed can be a
chore and please do check your intake manifolds. Any leak makes for a
poor fuel air mixture. If ever an engine cries out for fuel injection
it is the Jab.
The long and uneven length of tubes and the spider manifold carb
attachment is nice machining but not conducive to even fuel air mixture
distribution with the Bing carburetor metering system. Another part of
the cooling problems is the fuel distribution spider does not allow for
uniform cylinder inlet flow. EGT and CHT helps diagnose this as a
cooling airflow or mixture problem.
Carb. Jabiru has gone through many jet and needle combinations and are
pretty close now, but the fuel consumption of a Jab 3300 is a bit
thirsty (6-6.4 per hour at 2400 (but that is 90 Kts and 7.5-8.5 at 2700
80% power and 127 Kts)) in comparison to other engines of similar power.
Prop, The US distributor recommends the two blade wood Sensenich 62
inch prop. The good folks at Sensenich have a very good ground
adjustable blade for a two blade prop for the 3300. Airmaster is now
using this blade on the Airmaster AP420 for the Jab 3300. The AP420 is
working fine on one Europa in Australia. Longer props give the engine
fits. The torque curve of the jab (which falls off after 2700 RPM)
causes the operator to add throttle to try to absorb the torque, but the
engine just doesn't have it to deliver. So the pilot is generating more
heat for no more performance. Max recommended diameter is 64 inches.
The reason for the shorter prop is the thickness and length of the tip
starts going above .86 Mach and it really stars to wear the blade and
makes that horribly loud whacking sound in flight. The tip drag really
increases above .85M and the drag goes way up and starts vibrations. So
Sensenich has swept the tip on their fixed and ground adjustable props
for the Jab to improve the high speed/rpm prop characteristics, but the
strength of the tip means it must be fairly fat, which makes the Mach
crit fairly low.
Longevity:
In the older Jab engines, we have seen extensive pitting in the cylinder
walls from corrosion. Even at 3 months of winter non flying, consider
fogging the cylinders to prevent this or spin it over every week during
winter.
Cylinder warping: Uneven cooling causes the cylinders to warp a bit.
This is easily found by a differential cylinder pressure check. Expect
this warping to cause a broken ring or two and some scoring in the
cylinder. The cylinders cannot be machined according to the US
distributor and the Jabiru maintenance manual procedures. $750 each
plus you have to remove the opposite cylinder to remove the one which
increases maintenance costs. The front two cylinders can cost you $3000
in parts and labor. I'm just not impressed that the Jabiru can go 500
hours without high maintenance costs.
Calibrate the EGT and CHT with a hand held calibrated instruments. You
will need these to be accurate for engine tuning, and baffle tweaking.
You will be rewarded afterwards.
What I like:
Nice machining. Starts well and runs on AV gas and AV oil. Cheap price
for the power.
The manufacturer has incorporated hydraulic lifters now and new fins for
the cylinders so things are getting better.
What I dislike: Torque curve makes a cruise prop a problem for descent
takeoff performance. Setting the prop for cruise at about 2400 static
on the ground causes a long and lugging engine takeoff. The horsepower
falls off to 100 or less and it shows with two on board on a hot day.
Top speed for a trigear seems to stop at about 135. The engine hits
redline very quick in a dive. It really needs a constant speed prop.
The engine maintenance is not as it was originally sold. The cylinders
cannot be maintained, the heads are basic throw away as are the
cylinders. Corrosion is a problem with the choice of metals. In my
opinion, the cylinders need to be of thicker material for more
stability.
Cooling fins on the cylinders are inadequate. They need to be thinner
and more of them. The firewall forward packages are pretty deficient
but are improving over time.
The heads are square which makes training the airflow around the
cylinder especially the bottom very tough. But there is not enough room
to make them round. Ah compromises.
So, can you fix it? Yes.
Is it worth it? You decide. I don't want to do it again.
An aftermarket firm is making a water cooled heads, but at the cost and
installation, just buy a Rotax as the cost will be similar.
I just want a plug and play firewall forward, and I get it more so with
the Rotax 912S. Speeds of the 912S vs Jab 3300 at cruise are virtually
the same, so I think I'll go with the Rotax lower fuel consumption..
As for alternative engines:
Having experimented with fuel injection on the Rotax 914 I can say if
you love to tinker and don't mind years of work, go for it.
Car engines belong in cars. Subaru, Honda and Mercedes make the finest
engines for high performance autos.
However, an aircraft engine is more akin to a marine engine. Aircraft
fly on torque not just horsepower. Aircraft require high torque and
high power to weight ratios. .5 is a good power to weight ratio to
start, and torque should be about double the HP or the engine needs a
gearbox. The reliability needs to be unquestioned. I really prefer the
whirly thing up front work all the time.
The day they make a car that can be started, warmed up for 15 minutes
and then pull a 3000 pound trailer on to the road and floor it for 15 to
30 minutes, then retard the throttle about 400 RPM and hold 80 mph for
hours, and do it daily for 80,000 miles, I'll put it on an airplane.
Propellers are a Zen art. I have numerous articles, programs etc. for
determining blade efficiencies, but finding someone to build a reliable
blade, that holds up well and meets the speed range of 50 knot takeoff
and 180 knot max speed, on 100 HP forget it. The manufacturing
technology at a reasonable cost is just not out there. So we compromise
on twist, area, and cost. The warp drive is OK, as is the Sensenich.
Constant Speed propeller manufacturers make many hubs that make their
own blades or cover a variety of blade manufacturers, but what works
every time in all conditions falls to only a couple manufacturers and we
have all posted comments on these.
As far as putting more than 120 horses on the Europa I don't like it as
the mounts are not really strong enough for the added weight and power
without modification. The Europa needs longer landing gear to get the
prop clearance for the additional power absorption.
I have found that our little Europa is ideally suited for the 100-120 HP
engine series that are under 200 pounds total with accessories. Keep
the airframe down to about 850-900 pounds empty and this is a hell of an
airplane. Add a constant speed prop and it is even better. So why not
put a simple to install engine on it and make it easy to service.
I prefer to spend my time making the wiring, ducting and engine easy to
remove, so some 5 years later in one weekend, I can hoist the engine off
and change all the hoses, clean and service everything, change the
mounts and put it back on. Then hook up the new fuel hoses and plug the
quick disconnect plugs into the firewall and start it up.
My desire is to get in the air reliably. The decision to experiment
with a one off engine project that is even $10,000 cheaper on the front
is not worth it as I would rather see myself and my clients fly rather
than tinker and suffer engineering setbacks in silence or lament they
didn't get what they wanted in their airplane.
I love to tinker, and am always amazed at the superb craftsmanship of
some of our builders and alternative engine and system manufactures, and
some day they will spend the countless hours necessary to get it all
right. I'll wait for them to make an easy to install firewall forward
package and then I'll recommend it.
Keep it simple, keep it light, keep it reliable and you will fly sooner.
Just my opinion.
Bud Yerly,
N12AY, Classic tri gear, 914, Airmaster, 904 pounds
Custom Flight Creations Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 4:46 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Jabiru
Some of you might remember I said I only knew of one successful Jab6
installation? Well I had an interesting conversation with
a guy who's been happy with his for a few years now. Sensenich 2 blade
prop, 3 blades are not ideal on a Jab6 because of
crank resonance issues which I hadn't heard about. There isn't much
useful info about Jabs although must admit I don't look far.
I wonder what the Mach no of the prop tips at 150 knots and 3300 rpm?
Must be going super critical, around .65 ish?
With a wooden prop the blades need to be thicker and that isn't good
for high speed. Are Sensenich using super critical sections?
Graham
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
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on>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru and alternative engines |
I=C2-am=C2-always pleased to read your writings Bud, well stated, well
thought out and well researched. =C2-THere's no substitute for eperience
and I know for a fact that you have more than I do.=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0A From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>=0ATo: e
uropa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 12 February 2012, 22:00=0ASubject
: Re: Europa-List: Jabiru and alternative engines=0A =0A=0A =0AGraham, you
are as succinct as always.=C2- Wish I could be.=0A=C2-=0A=0AI=C2-have
found that our little Europa is=C2-ideally suited for the =0A100-120=C2
-HP engine series that are under 200 pounds total with =0Aaccessories.=C2
- Keep the airframe down to about 850-900 pounds empty and this =0Ais a h
ell of an airplane.=C2- Add a constant speed prop and it is even =0Abette
r.=C2- So why not put a simple to install engine on it and make it easy
=0Ato service.=0A=C2-=0AI prefer to spend my time making the wiring, duct
ing and engine=C2-easy =0Ato remove, so=C2-some 5 years later=C2-in o
ne weekend, I can hoist the =0Aengine off and change all the hoses, clean a
nd service everything, change the =0Amounts and put it back on.=C2- Then
hook up the new fuel hoses and plug the =0Aquick disconnect=C2-plugs into
the firewall and start it up.=0A=C2-=0AMy desire is to get in the air re
liably.=C2- The =0Adecision=C2-to=C2-experiment with=C2-a one off e
ngine project=C2-that is =0Aeven $10,000 cheaper on the front is not wort
h it as I would rather see myself =0Aand my=C2-clients fly rather than ti
nker and suffer engineering =0Asetbacks=C2-in silence or lament they didn
=99t get what they wanted in their =0Aairplane.=0A=C2-=0AI love to
tinker, and=C2-am always amazed at the superb craftsmanship of =0Asome of
our builders and alternative engine and system manufactures, and some =0Ad
ay they will spend the countless hours necessary to get it all right.=C2-
=0AI'll wait for them to make an easy to install=C2-firewall forward pac
kage and =0Athen I'll recommend it.=0A=C2-=0AKeep it simple, keep it ligh
t, keep it reliable and you will fly =0Asooner.=0A=C2-=0AJust my opinion.
=0A=C2-=0ABud Yerly, =0AN12AY, Classic tri gear,=C2- 914, Airmaster, 90
4 pounds =0ACustom Flight Creations Inc.
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