---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/13/12: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:19 AM - Lightning Strike (Martin Olliver) 2. 02:44 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (nigel henry) 3. 02:47 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (David Joyce) 4. 02:49 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (Trevor Pond) 5. 02:55 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (David Joyce) 6. 03:17 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (Peter Zutrauen) 7. 03:31 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (David Joyce) 8. 04:20 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (Paul McAllister) 9. 05:02 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 10. 06:22 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (Karl Heindl) 11. 06:53 AM - Re: Lightning Strike (Raimo Toivio) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Lightning Strike From: "Martin Olliver" Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not what is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider. If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered any possible remedial action to improve the situation? Martin. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:48 AM PST US From: nigel henry Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Dont fly ! As for well built Iv had lunch with you in Mcdonnalds ! and two of us in one europa I think might be a no no as not able to add fuel for w& b issues=2C so safety is bliss see you soon Nigel Ps will be down in the ne xt few days put the coffee on ...... and no buns ! and yes will bring your gascolator top. > Subject: Europa-List: Lightning Strike > From: martflynut@aol.com > Date: Mon=2C 13 Feb 2012 02:17:46 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not wha t is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to s ize issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the Europ a is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure compon ents don't explode apart=2C as happened with the glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considere d any possible remedial action to improve the situation? > Martin. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:09 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Martin, Paul McAlister had a lightning strike on his Europa which produced only modest damage and left the plane fliable, detailed at: http://europa363.versadev.com/LightningStrike.html It was clearly a much lower energy strike than the one that blew up the glider. It apperas to havetravelled along thge wires to his nav ligfhts and thus avoided the control runs. When I was contemplating flying to Ausralia I did a fair bit of research on the topic and found it exremely difficult to get any authoritive advice other than the CAA publication triggered by the glider incident (CAA AIL/0014, 2001, ISBN 1 904862 19 5) which gives recommendations for protecting gliders. It makes excellent sense for Europas contemplating getting near to Cu Nims. ( And although I usually feel it best to stay very well clear of such things, it is not possible to get to Australia without risking doing so unwittingly). My plan had been to run some aluminium mesh along the aileron and flap close outs to link with the rear lift pins and the bar across the fus behind tghe seats, with foil extensions from the outer aluminium mesh around the wing tip. I also planned to run a link from the engine frame to the tail wheel spring. Hope that helps, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:17:46 -0800 "Martin Olliver" wrote: > > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a >Europa? If not what is the perceived result of such a >strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic >glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants >survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am >unable to have due to size issues (not saying I am fat >just well built!) My concern with the Europa is the lack >of bonding between components and conductors to ensure >components don't explode apart, as happened with the >glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has >any one considered any possible remedial action to >improve the situation? > Martin. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike From: Trevor Pond What do Cirrus do? Trev G-LINN Sent from my iPhone On 13 Feb 2012, at 10:17, "Martin Olliver" wrote: > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not what is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered any possible remedial action to improve the situation? > Martin. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:49 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Martin, Sorry that link to Paul's strike doesn't seem to work, but perhaps he will come back with one that does! David On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:46:25 +0000 "David Joyce" wrote: > > > Martin, Paul McAlister had a lightning strike on his >Europa which produced only modest damage and left the >plane fliable, detailed at: >http://europa363.versadev.com/LightningStrike.html It >was clearly a much lower energy strike than the one that >blew up the glider. It apperas to havetravelled along >thge wires to his nav ligfhts and thus avoided the >control runs. When I was contemplating flying to Ausralia >I did a fair bit of research on the topic and found it >exremely difficult to get any authoritive advice other >than the CAA publication triggered by the glider incident > (CAA AIL/0014, 2001, ISBN 1 904862 19 5) which gives >recommendations for protecting gliders. It makes >excellent sense for Europas contemplating getting near to >Cu Nims. > ( And although I usually feel it best to stay very well >clear of such things, it is not possible to get to >Australia without risking doing so unwittingly). My plan >had been to run some aluminium mesh along the aileron and >flap close outs to link with the rear lift pins and the >bar across the fus behind tghe seats, with foil >extensions from the outer aluminium mesh around the wing >tip. I also planned to run a link from the engine frame >to the tail wheel spring. > Hope that helps, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:17:46 -0800 > "Martin Olliver" wrote: >> >> >> Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a >>Europa? If not what is the perceived result of such a >>strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic >>glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants >>survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am >>unable to have due to size issues (not saying I am fat >>just well built!) My concern with the Europa is the lack >>of bonding between components and conductors to ensure >>components don't explode apart, as happened with the >>glider. >> If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has >>any one considered any possible remedial action to >>improve the situation? >> Martin. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Un/Subscription, >>Forums! >>Admin. >> >> >> > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:39 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Hi Martin, I was under the impression that the glider you referred to broke up in flight due to the water ballast in the wings? Indeed in the archives you should find Paul Mcallister's lightning strike experience. Quite a read! http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Anatomy_of_a_Lightning_Strike.pdf Cheers, Pete A239 On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Martin Olliver wrote: > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not what > is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of > England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants > survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to > size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the > Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure > components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered > any possible remedial action to improve the situation? > Martin. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:43 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Pete, It was a flight experience/trial lesson flight, with P2 having his first glider flight (and his last, inspte of being offered a free second one in view of his first being curtailed!) There was no water ballast, but there was some speculation that some water contamination (?condensation) might have added to the force of the heat generated expansionof the air in the wing, which effectively blew the two surfaces apart. What was established is that the energy in the bolt was exceptionally high, significantly more, in fact, than airliners are built to withstand. Regards, David Joyce On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:16:04 -0500 Peter Zutrauen wrote: > Hi Martin, > > I was under the impression that the glider you referred >to broke up in > flight due to the water ballast in the wings? > > Indeed in the archives you should find Paul Mcallister's >lightning strike > experience. Quite a read! > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Anatomy_of_a_Lightning_Strike.pdf > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Martin Olliver > wrote: > >> >> >> Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a >>Europa? If not what >> is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years >>ago in the south of >> England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in >>flight both occupants >> survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am >>unable to have due to >> size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My >>concern with the >> Europa is the lack of bonding between components and >>conductors to ensure >> components don't explode apart, as happened with the >>glider. >> If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has >>any one considered >> any possible remedial action to improve the situation? >> Martin. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike From: Paul McAllister Hi Martin, I documented a lightning strike at http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html. Its under the drop down on the left hand side. Paul On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Martin Olliver wrote: > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not what > is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of > England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants > survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to > size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the > Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure > components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered > any possible remedial action to improve the situation? > Martin. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:31 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Pete & Martin=0AIt was the control runs I think, but probably also moisture in the core of the composite skins, I remember reading that the wings expl oded like-confetti.=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0A From: Peter Zutrauen =0ATo: europa-list@matronics .com =0ASent: Monday, 13 February 2012, 11:16=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: L ightning Strike=0A =0A=0AHi Martin,=0A=0AI was under the impression that th e glider you referred to broke up in flight due to the water ballast in the wings?=0A=0AIndeed in the archives you should find Paul Mcallister's light ning strike experience. Quite a read!- =0A=0Ahttp://www.aeroelectric.com/ articles/Anatomy_of_a_Lightning_Strike.pdf=0A=0ACheers,=0APete=0AA239=0A=0A =0AOn Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Martin Olliver wro l.com>=0A>=0A>Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa ? If not what is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight bot h occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to h ave due to size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern wi th the Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to e nsure components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider.=0A>-If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered any possible remedial action to improve the situation?=0A>Martin.=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/vie wtopic.php?p=366176#366176=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>===== =======0A>target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Europa-List=0A>============0A>http://forums.matronics .com=0A>============0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank" >http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=========== =================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:16 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning Strike I have had a minor strike some years ago. Judging by the trail of 'damage' it appears to have entered by the tailpipe and exited via the radiator. But it was minor and no repair was necessary.Manufacturers like Cirrus and Dia mond have integrated aluminum or copper mesh into the wing skins. Karl From: gbupa@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Dont fly ! As for well built Iv had lunch with you in Mcdonnalds ! and two of us in one europa I think might be a no no as not able to add fuel for w& b issues=2C so safety is bliss see you soon Nigel Ps will be down in the ne xt few days put the coffee on ...... and no buns ! and yes will bring your gascolator top. > Subject: Europa-List: Lightning Strike > From: martflynut@aol.com > Date: Mon=2C 13 Feb 2012 02:17:46 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not wha t is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to s ize issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the Europ a is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure compon ents don't explode apart=2C as happened with the glider. > If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considere d any possible remedial action to improve the situation? > Martin. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:02 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Martin, I had a case 8.th of June 2008. It went in via a fin top mounted strobo (it melted and remainders are in my "museum" now). Never found an outcoming hole. It broke also an electric trim and we had to land when trimmed for a cruise speed. It visited also a radio but no radio damages. I felt it via power lever and co-pilot got some electric experience via his headsets. That occurred when we flew between two black CBs, distance was about 10 nm /each. I cannot verify was it a strike or so called St. Elmos fire. Not very fun anyway. What I did later to improve the situation? Nothing but try to stay more clear about CBs. Raimo OH-XRT FINLAND -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Martin Olliver Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lightning Strike Olliver" Hi All. Has anyone experienced a lightning strike in a Europa? If not what is the perceived result of such a strike? A few years ago in the south of England a plastic glider was struck and broke up in flight both occupants survived as parachutes were deployed. A luxury I am unable to have due to size issues (not saying I am fat just well built!) My concern with the Europa is the lack of bonding between components and conductors to ensure components don't explode apart, as happened with the glider. If as I suspect we all take a risk with this issue has any one considered any possible remedial action to improve the situation? Martin. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=366176#366176 browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! 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