---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/25/12: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:50 AM - Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant (Frans Veldman) 2. 11:16 AM - Re: Throttle Cables (graeme bird) 3. 03:50 PM - Re: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant (Bud Yerly) 4. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Throttle Cables (Robert Borger) 5. 09:21 PM - Re Aussie builders (laurie) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:21 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Europa-List: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant Hi everyone, As some of you know I have drastically changed the cooling system of my 914 powererd Europa and achieved perfect cooling without having to resort to more and larger openings in the cowling. Even better, I think I have only about 50% of the original air flow left at maximum cowl flap angle and about 10% of this during the cruise. Less cooling air is less cooling drag, which is a significant percentage of the total drag of an Europa. It is one of the keys why I can easily cruise at 140 knots with my hi-top tri-gear. (Sorry, still didn't got time to write the promised article about this). So, with so much cooling overcapacity I thought to make the transition from 50/50 to Evans coolant. Reason for that was to be able to allow the engine to run slightly hotter (good for the efficiency) and to have zero pressure in the cooling system (which is good in case of a leak). One key element in my cooling system is the Laminova oil to water heat exchanger. This marvel has very fine oil and coolant passages to ensure good heat transfer. After swapping the 50/50 coolant for Evans I started the engine... and it was interesting to see the CHT's to increase very fast to 100C while the coolant sensor was still at ambient temperature. Coolant flow in the system appeared to be about zero. I thought of an air lock initially, but after much rocking and disconnecting hoses at key locations I was quite sure that I didn't have an air lock (I never had to resort to any of such trickery during the cooling experiments with 50/50). So, that Evans stuff simply appears to be too thick for the tiny canals of the Laminova heat exchanger. When the oil finally warms up by itself (without the use of warm coolant as usually was the case, so this takes a long time) the flow improves somewhat, but the best I got was a 30C difference between the CHT and coolant (on the ground at low power). It is not flyable. With 50/50 the temperature difference between the CHT and coolant is almost nothing, indicative for sufficient coolant flow. So, my question to anyone who has or is using Evans coolant: Did you see a large difference between the CHT's and coolant temperature? Has anyone ever tried to use Evans in combination with a Laminova/Mocal heat exchanger? On the Evans website a new type of coolant is announced, with higher viscosity especially for motorcycles that have smaller radiators with smaller canals. (Apparently there are more folks having problems with the regular thick Evans stuff). Has anyone tried that in an Europa? And more importantly, am I allowed to use it in my Rotax? I'm back to 50/50 for the moment (too bad for my dewatering efforts prior to pouring in that Evans stuff). Anyone interested in my can of Evans NPG+? Used only once! Never flown with it. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle Cables From: "graeme bird" I am just getting checked out on G-UMPY after build. I used piano wire from Airworld/jodel as the originals started kinking. Trouble is these are now stiff and sticking. I had to stop flying dismantle, oil and re route. It seems they should really be longer and either PFTE coated wire or a coated housing. The orginal stranded ones are lower resistance but maybe it was the routing that was the real culprit. Not sure whats best now. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just waiting for the Permit to Fly to arrive after submitting test flight report G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367248#367248 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:57 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant Frans, I have used the Evans in a stock trigear and have found my CHTs were about 15 degrees cooler with the glycol. I am as perplexed as you why the difference in the coolant temp probe performance. I cannot imagine that the Evans would be too thick for the Laminova heat exchanger as the coolant is basically the same viscosity of the Ethylene glycol. Are you using the S34 heat exchanger? That is what I thought about testing. Discussion: I would expect you to see what I and others have seen with the Evans, that is about a 15 degree CHT rise as the heat transfer rate of the Evans is slightly less than the glycol. For a properly set up trigear though, that would not be anything worth worrying about. The oil temp should be nearly coolant temp once warmed up. I hope not to insult you, but there are three or four types of Evans coolants. Are you using the heavy duty (yellow NPG), high performance (green which I used), NPG+, or Powersport which I think is NPGR. To my knowledge, there is no viscosity difference with any of them and all should work with the Rotax and Liminova. I do know that the glycol cooler must be free of water or things to to hell until the water evaporates. It was like oil and water but the Rotax still cooled. It almost sounds like the water pump inlet hose was kinked after the flush and blocked the flow. Easy done. Bud Yerly Europa Tech Support. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:45 AM Subject: Europa-List: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant > Hi everyone, As some of you know I have drastically changed the cooling system of my 914 powererd Europa and achieved perfect cooling without having to resort to more and larger openings in the cowling. Even better, I think I have only about 50% of the original air flow left at maximum cowl flap angle and about 10% of this during the cruise. Less cooling air is less cooling drag, which is a significant percentage of the total drag of an Europa. It is one of the keys why I can easily cruise at 140 knots with my hi-top tri-gear. (Sorry, still didn't got time to write the promised article about this). So, with so much cooling overcapacity I thought to make the transition from 50/50 to Evans coolant. Reason for that was to be able to allow the engine to run slightly hotter (good for the efficiency) and to have zero pressure in the cooling system (which is good in case of a leak). One key element in my cooling system is the Laminova oil to water heat exchanger. This marvel has very fine oil and coolant passages to ensure good heat transfer. After swapping the 50/50 coolant for Evans I started the engine... and it was interesting to see the CHT's to increase very fast to 100C while the coolant sensor was still at ambient temperature. Coolant flow in the system appeared to be about zero. I thought of an air lock initially, but after much rocking and disconnecting hoses at key locations I was quite sure that I didn't have an air lock (I never had to resort to any of such trickery during the cooling experiments with 50/50). So, that Evans stuff simply appears to be too thick for the tiny canals of the Laminova heat exchanger. When the oil finally warms up by itself (without the use of warm coolant as usually was the case, so this takes a long time) the flow improves somewhat, but the best I got was a 30C difference between the CHT and coolant (on the ground at low power). It is not flyable. With 50/50 the temperature difference between the CHT and coolant is almost nothing, indicative for sufficient coolant flow. So, my question to anyone who has or is using Evans coolant: Did you see a large difference between the CHT's and coolant temperature? Has anyone ever tried to use Evans in combination with a Laminova/Mocal heat exchanger? On the Evans website a new type of coolant is announced, with higher viscosity especially for motorcycles that have smaller radiators with smaller canals. (Apparently there are more folks having problems with the regular thick Evans stuff). Has anyone tried that in an Europa? And more importantly, am I allowed to use it in my Rotax? I'm back to 50/50 for the moment (too bad for my dewatering efforts prior to pouring in that Evans stuff). Anyone interested in my can of Evans NPG+? Used only once! Never flown with it. Frans http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Throttle Cables From: Robert Borger Graeme, I replaced my kinked, stranded wire with solid, teflon coated wire purchased from McMaster-Carr here in the States ( McMaster.com ). There's probably a similar product available in the U.K. It seems to be working well, but only 25 hrs on it so far. Hopefully, more time will be accumulated starting next month. If I were doing again today, I'd probably go with hi-tech, teflon, cycle brake cable and sheath ( Amazon.com search: teflon brake cable ). Perhaps I'll try that over next winter down time. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Feb 25, 2012, at 1:14 PM, graeme bird wrote: > > I am just getting checked out on G-UMPY after build. I used piano wire from Airworld/jodel as the originals started kinking. Trouble is these are now stiff and sticking. I had to stop flying dismantle, oil and re route. It seems they should really be longer and either PFTE coated wire or a coated housing. The orginal stranded ones are lower resistance but maybe it was the routing that was the real culprit. Not sure whats best now. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Just waiting for the Permit to Fly to arrive after submitting test flight report > G(at)gdbmk.co.uk ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:34 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re Aussie builders From: laurie Dear all Iam building a Europa in Australia pretty much on my own and am keen to make contact with other builders .I live in Victoria more specifically at Hamilton anyone around please make contact Laurie Ryan Sent from my iPad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.