---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/04/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:37 AM - Re: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant (Frans Veldman) 2. 02:45 AM - Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (graeme bird) 3. 04:16 AM - brakes (Paul & Vanessa Munford) 4. 05:04 AM - batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (graeme bird) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: brakes (rampil) 6. 08:02 AM - Re: brakes (G-IANI) 7. 08:29 AM - New Generation documentation (Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (G-IANI) 9. 08:32 AM - New generation parts (Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV) 10. 08:55 AM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (Pete Lawless) 11. 09:38 AM - Re: New generation parts (David Joyce) 12. 10:41 AM - Re: New Generation documentation (Robert Borger) 13. 10:48 AM - Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (Dave Disney) 14. 10:58 AM - Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (graeme bird) 15. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell (Bob Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:45 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Laminova heat exchanger and Evans coolant On 03/04/2012 12:40 AM, Gilles Thesee wrote: >> Furthermore the engine can safely be operated at a higher >> temperature, which is good for performance. > Please pardon me for jumping in. I would like to point out that running > an engine hotter implies *greater* heat rejection, all other things > being equal, since heat rejection is a direct funtion of the the > temperature difference between metal and coolant. This temperature difference would remain constant. If I close the cowl flap to raise the temperature, I'm raising the temperature of the coolant. Since the temp difference between the coolant and cylinder head is constant, CHT will follow, and this will cause a higher efficiency. Furthermore, it is best to keep the engine at the same temperature all the time. All metal parts expand with a different rate, so if you keep the engine at one temperature, all parts will "run in" for that temperature wich will give the best fitting, i.e. least friction and abrasion, while at the same time keeping the tightest fit so compression will not suffer. Keeping the engine always at the same temperature will in reality imply that you keep the engine temperature close to the upper limit. In cars we use water thermostats for this, but in the Europa we have to do this manually, i.e. by using a cowl flap. (Or use a water thermostat which keeps you dragging air through a radiator without any good reason, spoiling our good attempts to keep the drag of the airplane as low as possible). > Also in a liquid cooled engine, some degree of local boiling (nucleate > boiling) *does* occur. It is this local boiling that insures protection > from hot spot, due to boiling removing enormously more heat than just > heating liquid. Naturally we are speaking of an adequate flow of coolant > which removes the bubbles and let them collapse in the general flow. I largely agree with you here. If localized boiling would be a problem, the engine would destroy itself pretty fast. This doesn't generaly happen, so the problem doesn't exist. That said, your 'adequate flow of coolant' is often less at places where nucleate boiling occurs, this sub-optimal flow is often the cause of mucleate boiling. In a cylinder head, it is difficult to keep the coolant flowing at the same rate at all possible locations. (BTW I wonder whether the "5 minute restriction" of the Rotax 914 has anything to do with nucleate boiling) The main reason I like the Evans coolant is that it operates at zero pressure. In a Rotax we are pressurizing our coolant systems at 1.2 bar, which is quite a lot. The tiniest leak will cause you to loose your coolant pretty quick, and there is always a risk that a loose hose will blow off. Of course, proper maintenance will take away most of the risk, but not all of it. Furthermore if something bad happens which causes your engine to overheat, let's say to 140 degrees C, the 50/50 coolant will boil and finds its way out, leaving you with no cooling at all. With Evans you have the option to keep the engine running and get yourself out of a bad situation before the engine gives up. So, if everything is equal, I would prefer Evans. But alas it won't flow properly through my heat exchanger so I'll stick to 50/50. Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell From: "graeme bird" Well, did the test flights, got the permit (took a couple of months), and have just about completed the coaching (LAA scheme) with Andy Draper at Sywell and met the insurance requirements (5hrs, 15 landings). Not too much trouble so far with landings. All on grass, different conditions/runways. Few small snags to sort: I find the gear leaver hard to pull off the notch - might need a different handle I need a rubber slit on it to stop water/air coming up the slot, Original tyre is rubbing slightly (might try some hellerman oil on it before each flight) I guess I'll have to change to the thinner one soon. Witter ASI tends to ring on rotation. Andy has been great. Otherwise all good and very pleasing. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just waiting for the Permit to Fly to arrive after submitting test flight report G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367707#367707 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:44 AM PST US From: "Paul & Vanessa Munford" Subject: Europa-List: brakes Hi guys I have the latest Europa XS trigear (kit 625), which asks me to change the seals in the brake cylinders to 'nitrile' (included in the kit), - what does this mean in terms of brake fluid? I have matco brake calipers. Any suggestions for the best brake fluid for this combination would be very helpful. Thanx in advance. Paul Munford ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:31 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made From: "graeme bird" I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for the classic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has had the mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well). a) does anyone else want one making, they would be cheaper in a batch b) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the UK would be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) Regards Graeme -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just competed conversion to type G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: brakes From: "rampil" You should check with Matco. Are you sure the O-rings in the kit are not for something else, say a Jamar master cylinder? It was my recollection that Matco already uses Buna-N (which is nitrile!). Check the on-line manual for the WE-51 and you will see the parts list specs Buna-N o-rings. Buna-N is not compatible with glycol based brake fluids like DOT 3, 4, or 5.1 Dot 5 is silicone based and is compatible -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367715#367715 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:06 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: brakes Paul You do not say which brakes you are using. If you are installing the Trigear foot brake pedals then you need to change the seals as directed. I assume Europa did include the replacement seals in the kit. See attached note on brake fluids I produced in 2008. If you are building the finger brake option then the master cylinders are also Matco so they are compatible. So you can use MIL-H5606, Aviation hydraulic fluid and ATF compatible. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul & Vanessa Munford Sent: 04 March 2012 12:15 Subject: Europa-List: brakes Hi guys I have the latest Europa XS trigear (kit 625), which asks me to change the seals in the brake cylinders to 'nitrile' (included in the kit), - what does this mean in terms of brake fluid? I have matco brake calipers. Any suggestions for the best brake fluid for this combination would be very helpful. Thanx in advance. Paul Munford ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:10 AM PST US From: Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV Subject: Europa-List: New Generation documentation New on the list, just out of my egg: Bought my self the first stage kit with al New Generation control surfaces. Wonderful and sw=E9=E9=E9d. A few things are hard to understand though. For instance, I have no docume ntation about the little cap on top of the rudder. Does anyone have any pic tures or drawings that can help me out. A builders log would be the ultimat e off course. All pictures, drawings, measurements are more than welcome. Thank you in advance, Wouter Kroon (kit 627, first stage) W.Kroon@doscha.nl Based in Holland ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:03 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made Yes I have a copy of the Mod 13070 and it is available from me and on the new web site. In LAA terms it will be a repeat Mod (22.50) at present but I can probably get it made a standard mod (then FOC) if there is enough interest. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:33 AM PST US From: Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV Subject: Europa-List: New generation parts New on the list, just out of my egg: Bought my self the first stage kit with al New Generation control surfaces. Wonderful and sw=E9=E9=E9d. A few things are hard to understand though. For instance, I have no docume ntation about the little cap on top of the rudder. Does anyone have any pic tures or drawings that can help me out. A builders log would be the ultimat e off course. All pictures, drawings, measurements are more than welcome. Thank you in advance, Wouter Kroon (kit 627, first stage) W.Kroon@doscha.nl Based in Holland ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:08 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made Hi Graeme I will have one, it will probably save a bit of weight and my hose must be getting towards the end of its life. How many are you thinking of? There is a chap on our strip with a metal working company who may be interested in a batch of work. If you have a drawing and dimensions I can ask him. Regards Pete G-RMAC Classic #109 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 04 March 2012 13:03 Subject: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for the classic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has had the mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well). a) does anyone else want one making, they would be cheaper in a batch b) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the UK would be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) Regards Graeme -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just competed conversion to type G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:17 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New generation parts Wouter, Are you in the Europa Club? They will provide you with a list of Europa builders and owners in Holland, Belgium and Germany, some of whom will probably be close to you and will I am sure be happy to meet up with you and help. They also provide numerous links to builders logs and to ather useful information. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:29:45 +0000 Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV wrote: > New on the list, just out of my egg: > > > > Bought my self the first stage kit with al New >Generation control surfaces. Wonderful and swd. > > > > A few things are hard to understand though. For >instance, I have no documentation about the little cap >on top of the rudder. Does anyone have any pictures or >drawings that can help me out. A builders log would be >the ultimate off course. > > > > All pictures, drawings, measurements are more than >welcome. > > > > Thank you in advance, > > Wouter Kroon (kit 627, first stage) > > W.Kroon@doscha.nl > > Based in Holland > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Generation documentation From: Robert Borger Wouter, Greetings from Texas. There are on-line builders logs at europaowners.org and there are others who have on-line logs of their own. Some are more complete than others. Mine, N914XL, is fairly complete. But my XS has the older, pre-built, foam control surfaces so I don't know that it will be much assistance with your rudder. As for other builders logs, Perhaps you could set up your own on-line builders log at Europa Owners to provide documentation for the New Generation control surfaces. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Wouter Kroon - Doscha BV wrote: New on the list, just out of my egg: Bought my self the first stage kit with al New Generation control surfaces. Wonderful and sw=E9=E9=E9d. A few things are hard to understand though. For instance, I have no documentation about the little cap on top of the rudder. Does anyone have any pictures or drawings that can help me out. A builders log would be the ultimate off course. All pictures, drawings, measurements are more than welcome. Thank you in advance, Wouter Kroon (kit 627, first stage) W.Kroon@doscha.nl Based in Holland ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell From: "Dave Disney" Well done Graeme, As a Europa wannabe I'm interested to learn more about your insurance costs. Are you a tail wheel pilot of old or are you new to the Europa transferring from a tricycle? 5 hrs 15 landings doesn't seem too onerous to me. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367732#367732 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:51 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell From: "graeme bird" Dave, I have about 600hrs, all tricycle, several different types, been with Traffords for about 10 years mostly as part of a syndicate on a Rallye. Insurance is around 1500. I had also insured the project with them. No accident history. Didnt seem that bad to me considering my C42 is/was around 1200-1300. Interestingly, I now have a one-up/ one down policy with them for around another 350 so both planes are insured presently (me only though). Regards -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just competed conversion to type G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367737#367737 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:04 PM PST US From: Bob Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell Well done Graeme. So how soon will we be seeing you on a tour ? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 04 March 2012 10:45 Subject: Europa-List: Re: first flight of G-UMPY Sywell Well, did the test flights, got the permit (took a couple of months), and have just about completed the coaching (LAA scheme) with Andy Draper at Sywell and met the insurance requirements (5hrs, 15 landings). Not too much trouble so far with landings. All on grass, different conditions/runways. Few small snags to sort: I find the gear leaver hard to pull off the notch - might need a different handle I need a rubber slit on it to stop water/air coming up the slot, Original tyre is rubbing slightly (might try some hellerman oil on it before each flight) I guess I'll have to change to the thinner one soon. Witter ASI tends to ring on rotation. Andy has been great. Otherwise all good and very pleasing. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just waiting for the Permit to Fly to arrive after submitting test flight report G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367707#367707 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.