---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/14/12: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:00 AM - Re: Transponder aerial (David Joyce) 2. 02:07 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (G-IANI) 3. 02:45 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Mike Toft) 4. 02:57 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Bill Sisley) 5. 03:31 AM - Re: Transponder aerial (Bill Henderson) 6. 03:58 AM - Re: Transponder aerial (Bob Harrison) 7. 04:40 AM - Re: Rotax 912s cold start problems (Mark Burton) 8. 04:44 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Raimo Toivio) 9. 04:54 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 10. 04:58 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 11. 05:01 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 12. 05:17 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 13. 05:32 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 14. 06:00 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Raimo Toivio) 15. 06:29 AM - Re: Transponder aerial (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 16. 09:11 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (DAVID ANDERSON) 17. 09:39 AM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 18. 12:24 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (Neville Eyre) 19. 12:31 PM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Neville Eyre) 20. 12:55 PM - Re: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot (Frans Veldman) 21. 01:08 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (david park) 22. 01:35 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (Kevin Challis) 23. 02:03 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (graeme bird) 24. 02:08 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (Bob Fairall) 25. 03:30 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (DAVID JOYCE) 26. 03:51 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (europapa) 27. 05:33 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (GRAHAM SINGLETON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:25 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Transponder aerial Richard, my mode S transponder and it's predecessor has always worked well with a Bob Archer aerial mounted vertically on the plywood tower that confines the tail plane counterweight. It is a small flat aerial without a ground plane, as I recall. Regards, David On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:37:22 +0000 Richard Iddon wrote: > > >>> I am planning to fit a Mode S transponder. My current >>>setup is a Microair T2000 which has worked OK but >>>occasionally ground stations report no signal so I would >>>like to look at improving my aerial setup at the same >>>time. I plan to upgrade the coax from RG58 to RG400. My >>>current ground plane is an aluminium plate about 8in >>>diameter, half moon shape with a lip which is fixed >>>behind the baggage bay bulkhead. >>> >>> Suggestions for improvement from those with more >>>knowledge on the black art of radio waves? >>> >>> Richard Iddon >>> >>> G-RIXS > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:22 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Frans This problem drove me mad for a couple of years until I discovered the magic trick Ivor described. Turn off both pumps and start the engine with about a 1/8in to =BCin of throttle. It will fire up and run but you must leave the pumps off until she starts to falter (say 5 to 10 seconds). Then turn on the main fuel pump and she continues to run. This has worked well on both G-IANI and G-IRON (both 914) for the last six years. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:57 AM PST US From: Mike Toft Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Hi Frans Have exactly the same problem with my 914 - ok straight away but short break very difficult to start - but have found if I do 2 things I can get it to start agin with little extra effort. 1. Open both inspection hatches once you have landed - allows some of the under cowl heat to escape. 2. To start - switch on a fuel pump till you have good fuel pressure ( i have a fuel pressure warning light - wait till it goes out) then switch OFF the fuel pumps - open throttle to about a 1/4 +/- and crank till it fires - once engine is running - switch on fuel pump but be prepared to switch off again if engine starts to die - soon running smooth and fuel pump can be left on as normal Regards Mike Dr Mike Toft BVSc 083 654 6655 P O Box 602 Linkhills 3652 watervet@mweb.co.za On 13 Mar 2012, at 11:22 PM, Tim Ward wrote: > > Frans, > > Don't have a 914 but I know others who have suffered the same problem with the 912S and , for what it is worth, they always > open their oil and coolant doors on top of the top cowling to allow faster cooling of the engine compartment during stopovers. > > Otherwise don't mention starting problems to me! I have now got to replace my Sprag Clutch due to cold starting problems with my 912S > at 300 hours!! Always had it and got worse with time. So watch out when trying to persist in trying to start the motor as it quickly destroys your Sprag Clutch. I have also the > old mono "classic" engine frame which doesn't allow enough room for the new Heavy Duty Starter which Rotax suddenly decided was > necessary for the 100 HP 912S. So, after replacing the Sprag Clutch, the Rotax man is going to look at how to fix the starting problem > in cold weather. Maybe a case of redesigning the engine frame to allow for the HD Starter? > Once it is going there is no problems with starting, so I haven't got the vapour lock problem. > All a bit frustrating as you have found out and expensive. Might as well throw in the 912iS, but that may unleash a different set of problems. > > Anyone have some input to my problem? Tried new battery, preheating the engine which has helped, haven't tried the soft start module, > and kicking the tyre!! > > Cheers, > > Tim > > > > Tim Ward, > 12 Waiwetu Street, > Fendalton, > Christchurch 8052 > New Zealand > > Ph; 03 3515166 > Mob; 0210640221 > > email; ward.t@xtra.co.nz > -----Original Message----- From: Frans Veldman > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:01 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot > > > Hi everyone, > > I guess I'm not the only one having this problem. The main problem here > is that I don't understand why it is happening. > > If I arrive at an airfield in hot weather, I can restart either right > away, or after a considerable time. If I just refuel without having a > meal, I get into a time window where the engine has difficulties starting. > > It is a vapour lock problem of some sort, but I don't know how this can > happen. Sure, the inside of the cowling is hot and residual heat from > the turbo is, without the large fan upfront turning, cooking the fuel. > But I thought that the 914 is supposed to be immune from the problem. > > Up to the pressure regulator the fuel is recycling when I switch on the > electric fuel pump. Any vapour up to the pressure regulator is directed > back into the tank and being replaced by fresh and cold fuel. > > The carb bowls might have been cooked empty, but then the floats will > have dropped and fresh fuel will pour in as soon as I switch on the > pumps. The fuel line between the pressur regulator is not recycled but > if it contains vapour then it will escape via the opened carb needle and > not raise the floats, so it will gently escape until being replaced by > liquid fuel, being driven there by the electric pumps. > > So... why won't then darn thing just start? > > Yesterday I was exactly experiencing this problem. After arriving at an > airport to go to the service center for the bi-annual pitot and static > systems test, and with the engine switched off for about ten minutes I > couldn't restart it. No matter how long I kept the fuel pumps running, > applied choke, (just in case the mixture was too lean) or was just > cranking with the throtthle wide open to vent the cylinders (in case it > was too rich), the engine would just crank without even a faint single hit. > So I abandoned the plan to taxi to the refueling station, and had a > lunch instead. Of course after that the engine started up right after > just a half turn of the prop... > > So... why is this happening? I'm interested in solving this problem, but > primarily I want to know why this is happening because according to my > reasoning it shouldn't be happening in the first place. What am I > missing here? > > Oh BTW, on the return home I got caught by non predicted early set in of > night fog, with a very rapidly dropping cloud base (never seen it > falling that fast). With my home base being the closest and most > promising airfield once I got forced down to 500 feet I advanced the > throttle to 100% (not 115%) and got over 155 knots IAS worth out of it > on my freshly calibrated ASI, which was quite an experience so low over > the ground. At my homefield I arrived less than 15 minutes later with > the local cloud base still at 1000 feet (as announced/predicted by ATC > half an hour earlier), but I was thankful nevertheless to have been able > to speed out of that threathening situation that fast. If it weren't for > the obligatory static/pitot test to renew my airworthiness review > certificate I wouldn't have been flying at all that day, so much for the > bureaucrats that want to enforce my safety this way. Anyway, the > pitot/static systems worked flawless (I would have had noticed it myself > it if they weren't) and I'm good to apply for renewal of the desired > certificate. > All this while I had unwittingly broke my smallest toe by bumping into > my wife unintentionally (honestly!) and was undergoing this flying > experience with some discomfort to enhance the flying experience even > further. At least the latter problem has been diagnosed correctly today, > so now I just want to get diagnosed the vapour lock problem as well. Who > can shine some light on this mystery? > > Frans > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:13 AM PST US From: Bill Sisley Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Franz, I sometimes have this problem during hot weather. My solution is to turn OFF both fuel pumps and then it starts easily. As soon as it starts turn the pump back on and all is OK. Sue& Bill On 14/03/2012 9:01 a.m., Frans Veldman wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman > > Hi everyone, > > I guess I'm not the only one having this problem. The main problem here > is that I don't understand why it is happening. > > If I arrive at an airfield in hot weather, I can restart either right > away, or after a considerable time. If I just refuel without having a > meal, I get into a time window where the engine has difficulties starting. > > It is a vapour lock problem of some sort, but I don't know how this can > happen. Sure, the inside of the cowling is hot and residual heat from > the turbo is, without the large fan upfront turning, cooking the fuel. > But I thought that the 914 is supposed to be immune from the problem. > > Up to the pressure regulator the fuel is recycling when I switch on the > electric fuel pump. Any vapour up to the pressure regulator is directed > back into the tank and being replaced by fresh and cold fuel. > > The carb bowls might have been cooked empty, but then the floats will > have dropped and fresh fuel will pour in as soon as I switch on the > pumps. The fuel line between the pressur regulator is not recycled but > if it contains vapour then it will escape via the opened carb needle and > not raise the floats, so it will gently escape until being replaced by > liquid fuel, being driven there by the electric pumps. > > So... why won't then darn thing just start? > > Yesterday I was exactly experiencing this problem. After arriving at an > airport to go to the service center for the bi-annual pitot and static > systems test, and with the engine switched off for about ten minutes I > couldn't restart it. No matter how long I kept the fuel pumps running, > applied choke, (just in case the mixture was too lean) or was just > cranking with the throtthle wide open to vent the cylinders (in case it > was too rich), the engine would just crank without even a faint single hit. > So I abandoned the plan to taxi to the refueling station, and had a > lunch instead. Of course after that the engine started up right after > just a half turn of the prop... > > So... why is this happening? I'm interested in solving this problem, but > primarily I want to know why this is happening because according to my > reasoning it shouldn't be happening in the first place. What am I > missing here? > > Oh BTW, on the return home I got caught by non predicted early set in of > night fog, with a very rapidly dropping cloud base (never seen it > falling that fast). With my home base being the closest and most > promising airfield once I got forced down to 500 feet I advanced the > throttle to 100% (not 115%) and got over 155 knots IAS worth out of it > on my freshly calibrated ASI, which was quite an experience so low over > the ground. At my homefield I arrived less than 15 minutes later with > the local cloud base still at 1000 feet (as announced/predicted by ATC > half an hour earlier), but I was thankful nevertheless to have been able > to speed out of that threathening situation that fast. If it weren't for > the obligatory static/pitot test to renew my airworthiness review > certificate I wouldn't have been flying at all that day, so much for the > bureaucrats that want to enforce my safety this way. Anyway, the > pitot/static systems worked flawless (I would have had noticed it myself > it if they weren't) and I'm good to apply for renewal of the desired > certificate. > All this while I had unwittingly broke my smallest toe by bumping into > my wife unintentionally (honestly!) and was undergoing this flying > experience with some discomfort to enhance the flying experience even > further. At least the latter problem has been diagnosed correctly today, > so now I just want to get diagnosed the vapour lock problem as well. Who > can shine some light on this mystery? > > Frans > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:40 AM PST US From: "Bill Henderson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Transponder aerial Richard, The ground plan should be a full circle. Bill A010 Monowheel Classic Still Building....... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:37 AM Subject: Europa-List: Transponder aerial > >>> I am planning to fit a Mode S transponder. My current setup is a >>> Microair T2000 which has worked OK but occasionally ground stations >>> report no signal so I would like to look at improving my aerial setup at >>> the same time. I plan to upgrade the coax from RG58 to RG400. My current >>> ground plane is an aluminium plate about 8in diameter, half moon shape >>> with a lip which is fixed behind the baggage bay bulkhead. >>> >>> Suggestions for improvement from those with more knowledge on the black >>> art of radio waves? >>> >>> Richard Iddon >>> >>> G-RIXS > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:07 AM PST US From: Bob Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Transponder aerial Hi! Richard, My aerial for the transponder is a small rod with a chrome knob on the end pointing down out of the bottom of the plane but I have a piece of aluminium which is laid round the base of the fuselage and almost up the sides as a ground plane. It is the same aerial as I used for the original Mode c Transponder. Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Sent: 14 March 2012 06:37 Subject: Europa-List: Transponder aerial >> I am planning to fit a Mode S transponder. My current setup is a Microair T2000 which has worked OK but occasionally ground stations report no signal so I would like to look at improving my aerial setup at the same time. I plan to upgrade the coax from RG58 to RG400. My current ground plane is an aluminium plate about 8in diameter, half moon shape with a lip which is fixed behind the baggage bay bulkhead. >> >> Suggestions for improvement from those with more knowledge on the black art of radio waves? >> >> Richard Iddon >> >> G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax 912s cold start problems From: "Mark Burton" Howdy folks, Cranking the engine and then turning the ignition on is not equivalent to how the Soft Start module functions. The purpose of the SSM is to keep the ignition retarded while the starter is operating. Given the fact that Rotax have now altered the ignition timing on new engines so as to retard the ignition even more during starting, it is arguable that the earlier ignition systems don't retard enough so, even if a SSM is fitted, there's still a chance that a kickback could occur. Having said that, I believe a lot of people who have fitted the SSM have seen a benefit. Cheers, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368458#368458 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:42 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Great Frans "I advanced the throttle to 100% (not 115%) and got over 155 knots IAS worth out of it on my freshly calibrated ASI," Congratulations for that; next upgrade your very speedy cannon to Mono and meet even VNE (165 knots) during the low level flight. "broke my smallest toe by bumping into my wife unintentionally (honestly!)" I recommend you to try next time your biggest tool intentionally instead of a smallest toe unintentionally. Raimo do archive -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Frans Veldman Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:01 PM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Hi everyone, I guess I'm not the only one having this problem. The main problem here is that I don't understand why it is happening. If I arrive at an airfield in hot weather, I can restart either right away, or after a considerable time. If I just refuel without having a meal, I get into a time window where the engine has difficulties starting. It is a vapour lock problem of some sort, but I don't know how this can happen. Sure, the inside of the cowling is hot and residual heat from the turbo is, without the large fan upfront turning, cooking the fuel. But I thought that the 914 is supposed to be immune from the problem. Up to the pressure regulator the fuel is recycling when I switch on the electric fuel pump. Any vapour up to the pressure regulator is directed back into the tank and being replaced by fresh and cold fuel. The carb bowls might have been cooked empty, but then the floats will have dropped and fresh fuel will pour in as soon as I switch on the pumps. The fuel line between the pressur regulator is not recycled but if it contains vapour then it will escape via the opened carb needle and not raise the floats, so it will gently escape until being replaced by liquid fuel, being driven there by the electric pumps. So... why won't then darn thing just start? Yesterday I was exactly experiencing this problem. After arriving at an airport to go to the service center for the bi-annual pitot and static systems test, and with the engine switched off for about ten minutes I couldn't restart it. No matter how long I kept the fuel pumps running, applied choke, (just in case the mixture was too lean) or was just cranking with the throtthle wide open to vent the cylinders (in case it was too rich), the engine would just crank without even a faint single hit. So I abandoned the plan to taxi to the refueling station, and had a lunch instead. Of course after that the engine started up right after just a half turn of the prop... So... why is this happening? I'm interested in solving this problem, but primarily I want to know why this is happening because according to my reasoning it shouldn't be happening in the first place. What am I missing here? Oh BTW, on the return home I got caught by non predicted early set in of night fog, with a very rapidly dropping cloud base (never seen it falling that fast). With my home base being the closest and most promising airfield once I got forced down to 500 feet I advanced the throttle to 100% (not 115%) and got over 155 knots IAS worth out of it on my freshly calibrated ASI, which was quite an experience so low over the ground. At my homefield I arrived less than 15 minutes later with the local cloud base still at 1000 feet (as announced/predicted by ATC half an hour earlier), but I was thankful nevertheless to have been able to speed out of that threathening situation that fast. If it weren't for the obligatory static/pitot test to renew my airworthiness review certificate I wouldn't have been flying at all that day, so much for the bureaucrats that want to enforce my safety this way. Anyway, the pitot/static systems worked flawless (I would have had noticed it myself it if they weren't) and I'm good to apply for renewal of the desired certificate. All this while I had unwittingly broke my smallest toe by bumping into my wife unintentionally (honestly!) and was undergoing this flying experience with some discomfort to enhance the flying experience even further. At least the latter problem has been diagnosed correctly today, so now I just want to get diagnosed the vapour lock problem as well. Who can shine some light on this mystery? Frans browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:05 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/13/2012 10:00 PM, PHILLIPS I wrote: > I turn off both pumps with about a 1/4 throttle it will fire up and run > but you must > leave the pumps off until she starts to falter, Thanks a lot! You, and of course everyone else who answered. Good to hear I'm not the only one having this problem and good to hear there is consencus about the work around to get the thing started. Nobody came up with a suggestion why we are having this problem. Let's see, now it is clear that the engine will start with the fuel pumps off, we can draw some conclusions from it: It is not a fuel starvation problem, so it is not vapour lock. I think the best (if not only) explanation is: After 10 minutes in a hot engine bay the fuel in the carb bowls has vaporized completely and is then lingering in the airbox and manifold with no easy way out, so it is still there when we try to start the engine after these 10 minutes. The mixture is overly rich due to the excessive fuel vapor and allowing the carbs to add the normal amount of fuel will make the mixture so rich that the engine won't start. If we start right after shut down the fuel in the carbs has not yet vaporized, if we start much later the vapor has leaked away so it is not causing a problem anymore. Anyone else with a better explanation? I thought of fixing this problem but now the work around is so easy I think I will leave it at that. Thanks everyone! Frans ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:44 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/13/2012 10:22 PM, Tim Ward wrote: > So watch out when > trying to persist in trying to start the motor as it quickly destroys > your Sprag Clutch. The 912S has a much higher compression than the 914 (and 912). Although never owned a 912S it was my understanding that the starting issues have to do with this higher compression, which makes cranking the engine much harder with much more jolts and kicks. I guess a larger battery and retarding the ignition during starting might help a bit. Frans ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:22 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/14/2012 01:20 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > BTW, I have called a couple of times, have you been away? Yes, I have been away yesterday and the day before. Now I first have to get a pile of work done, I guess we can call later (when it is evening here). Frans ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:34 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/14/2012 03:11 AM, Dean Seitz wrote: > I have asked when down at Lockwood and all they would > say is the carbs need to be rebuilt. If this is the case it was sold > to me new with bad carbs since it has done it from day one. Same here. It has always done that. And with only 150 hours on the clock I think the carbs are still pretty new. > In the > meantime I an making my own fuel injection system for it. Great, I'm working on plans to do the same. You are also using the carbs as throttle body (and for redundancy in case the injection fails?) > I hope to make it > available when it is finished for under $4000.00 Are you working on it as a commercial project or is this a fun project we can openly discuss? If it is the latter I would love to know where and how you obtained adapted manifolds with injector bosses. > It will still be a > while before all the desiging and testing will be completed though. I bet! But it is worth the effort, I estimate a fuel reduction of 10% and a slight increase of power. With the current fuel prices the system will earn itself back. > Be nice if someone could figure the flooding problem out in the > meantime What do you think about my theory? Frans ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:48 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/14/2012 12:44 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Congratulations for that; next upgrade your very speedy cannon to Mono > and meet even VNE (165 knots) during the low level flight. I think with proper fairings on the wheels the difference in drag between a tri-gear and a mono wouldn't be that much. This year I plan to replace the mickey mouse fairings by properly shaped fairings. The frontal area of the outriggers, mono wheel and tail wheel might still be smaller but I think these items are more difficult to clean up aerodynamically. And of course I don't think I'm a good enough flyer to keep the thing under control in the various and sometimes challinging situations during my travels. > "broke my smallest toe by bumping into > my wife unintentionally (honestly!)" > > I recommend you to try next time your biggest tool intentionally instead > of a smallest toe unintentionally. I tried but something clearly went wrong... I will keep practising. ;-) Frans ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:09 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot "I think with proper fairings on the wheels the difference in drag between a tri-gear and a mono wouldn't be that much." Maybe so but like all The Mono Pilots know they are flying a little fighter in fact and think it must be faster - then it also really is faster ;) You know - the placebo effect works...as well as attitude. Raimo ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:50 AM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Transponder aerial Richard- I am using an AAE antenna and it works fine. It is a folded dipole mounted vertically. It is mounted on a piece of balsa wood FLOXed to the inside of the fuselage near the bulkhead containing the elevator weights. RG-400 is a good idea too. With a vertical dipole you do not need a counterpoise. The AAE antenna has a BNC connector already fitted, so you just FLOX it in and you are good to go. I think the Bob Archer antenna is similar. Jim Puglise N283JL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:37:22 AM Subject: Europa-List: Transponder aerial >> I am planning to fit a Mode S transponder. My current setup is a Microair T2000 which has worked OK but occasionally ground stations report no signal so I would like to look at improving my aerial setup at the same time. I plan to upgrade the coax from RG58 to RG400. My current ground plane is an aluminium plate about 8in diameter, half moon shape with a lip which is fixed behind the baggage bay bulkhead. >> >> Suggestions for improvement from those with more knowledge on the black art of radio waves? >> >> Richard Iddon >> >> G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:45 AM PST US From: DAVID ANDERSON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot I have found, over the years, that if I run the engine taxiing in with the fuel pumps off and then shut it down as the engine starts to falter, that leaves the carb bowls empty. Then on start-up, the carbs are filled with fresh, cool fuel and with the techniques described, it starts right up. I do leave the pumps off during the start and then start them when the engine starts to falter. Not sure why this has to be done, but it is necessary. I also leave the inspection doors open to help remove the hot air from the top of the cowl while it is parked. Dave Anderson 480 hours 914 long wing. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:59 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/14/2012 05:08 PM, DAVID ANDERSON wrote: > I have found, over the years, that if I run the engine taxiing in > with the fuel pumps off and then shut it down as the engine starts to > falter, that leaves the carb bowls empty. That is a smart idea! I like this one. It should solve the problem, and it also causes less residu to be built up in the carbs. (If fuel vaporizes some residues from the various additions remain, if the carb is drawn empty these residues can not built up in the first place). > Then on start-up, the carbs > are filled with fresh, cool fuel and with the techniques described, > it starts right up. I do leave the pumps off during the start and > then start them when the engine starts to falter. I'm not sure if I understand this right. You switch the fuel pumps off on arrival and let the engine sputter to a halt due to fuel starvation, and then you leave the fuel pumps still off at the subsequent start??? I assume that you use either one of these options but not both at the same time because otherwise there wouldn't be any fuel available for starting? Please clarify? Frans ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made From: Neville Eyre Right, update; I gave up on the three manufacturers I asked to bid on before, no wonder al l the work is going to China ! Found someone [ a mate] to do the job, I need to know is how many are inter ested in this first batch. I intend to keep a bunch in stock later, as ALL Classic Europa's are going to need one sooner or later, I have inspected 3 recently for Permit Renewal , all getting close to being too far gone. Europa are not going to get any more rubber hoses made. The pipes will be from 6023 [ heat treated to T3 condition after bending in the T 0 state] with rolled beads on each end. Tags on both ends to ground [ earth] to filler cap and ground circuit. Will be a ''new'' Mod with the LAA as we can't use Franks Mod if there is t he SLIGHTEST deviation.Frank used 6063 T6 [ YES T6 !] How did he bend that ? So different material spec needs a new Mod ! ? Will be a complete Kit with all connecting hoses, clips, wire etc..... I will have a firm price in a week or so, best guess at the moment for the pipe only is about =C2=A3115 / =C2=A3120, but that depends on the number ? Looking at the cost of the other items at the moment. Best to ship [ especially to overseas] in multiples, as they will be big [ odd shape] can't be folded up like the rubber ones were ! ? [ mind, I expec t Maureen would have tried !] So, who wants one in about 3 to 4 weeks ? I have had a pipe made from gash steel to trial fit, [ got 3 Europa's to c heck with, all slightly different !] if / when I get the go ahead from enou gh of you I will be ready to do sets for real in the alloy. Looks like a win / win situation going to alloy, wont get the stink through the poor quality rubber, and it will be lighter. Also got a ''cunning plan '' to aid faster filling, will report back on that later. So Guys, show me your money ! Nev -----Original Message----- From: Neville Eyre Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:47 Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made I started conversations with 3 potential manufactures a while back, confess I have let it slip, will look back into it this week and report back. Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: graeme bird Sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:33 Subject: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for the lassic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has had he mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well). a) does anyone else want one making, they would be cheaper in a batch ) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the UK ould be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) Regards Graeme -------- raeme Bird -UMPY ono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP ust competed conversion to type (at)gdbmk.co.uk ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709 arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ://forums.matronics.com lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot From: Neville Eyre Hi Frans, I believe heat is the trigger to your [ and other 914 drivers] initial prob lem. Can you provide us with the under cowl temps you saw during your Flight Tes t Program ? The numbers you witnessed in cruise, climb out and after shut down / restin g ? I was monitoring these temps in several places inside the cowl during d evelopment of the original 912 and 914 Installation, would be interesting t o see how the removal of all through air flow has effected under cowl temps . Heat from the exhaust / Turbo has to go somewhere ? Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: Frans Veldman Sent: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:40 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot On 03/14/2012 05:08 PM, DAVID ANDERSON wrote: I have found, over the years, that if I run the engine taxiing in with the fuel pumps off and then shut it down as the engine starts to falter, that leaves the carb bowls empty. That is a smart idea! I like this one. It should solve the problem, and t also causes less residu to be built up in the carbs. (If fuel aporizes some residues from the various additions remain, if the carb s drawn empty these residues can not built up in the first place). > Then on start-up, the carbs are filled with fresh, cool fuel and with the techniques described, it starts right up. I do leave the pumps off during the start and then start them when the engine starts to falter. I'm not sure if I understand this right. You switch the fuel pumps off n arrival and let the engine sputter to a halt due to fuel starvation, nd then you leave the fuel pumps still off at the subsequent start??? I ssume that you use either one of these options but not both at the same ime because otherwise there wouldn't be any fuel available for tarting? Please clarify? Frans -======================== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:38 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 starting problems when hot Hi Neville, > Can you provide us with the under cowl temps you saw during your Flight > Test Program ? Nope, don't have that data. But I plan to do some measurements this summer. > would be > interesting to see how the removal of all through air flow has effected > under cowl temps. Heat from the exhaust / Turbo has to go somewhere ? I bet it is much lower than it was before. The air leaving the radiator blows right between the exhaust tubes and turbo. Air box temp (I have a sensor there) is also lower than it used to be. And I have no signs of elevated temps in the cowling (no discolourisation, no melted tie wraps, etc). Of course, once the engine is switched off the radiant heat will still heat up everything and boil away the fuel. Frans ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made From: david park SGkgbmV2LCBwdXQgbWUgZG93biBmb3Igb25lLg0KUmVnYXJkcyBkYXZlIHBhcmsuIEctTERWTw0K DQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCg0KT24gMTQgTWFyIDIwMTIsIGF0IDE5OjM1LCAiTmV2 aWxsZSBFeXJlIiA8bmV2ZXlyZUBhb2wuY28udWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IFJpZ2h0LCB1cGRhdGU7 DQo+IEkgZ2F2ZSB1cCBvbiB0aGUgdGhyZWUgbWFudWZhY3R1cmVycyBJIGFza2VkIHRvIGJpZCBv biBiZWZvcmUsIG5vIHdvbmRlciBhbGwgdGhlIHdvcmsgaXMgZ29pbmcgdG8gQ2hpbmEgIQ0KPiBG b3VuZCBzb21lb25lIFsgYSBtYXRlXSB0byBkbyB0aGUgam9iLCBJIG5lZWQgdG8ga25vdyBpcyBo b3cgbWFueSBhcmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGZpcnN0IGJhdGNoLg0KPiBJIGludGVuZCB0 byBrZWVwIGEgYnVuY2ggaW4gc3RvY2sgbGF0ZXIsIGFzIEFMTCBDbGFzc2ljIEV1cm9wYSdzIGFy ZSBnb2luZyB0byBuZWVkIG9uZSBzb29uZXIgb3IgbGF0ZXIsIEkgaGF2ZSBpbnNwZWN0ZWQgMyBy ZWNlbnRseSBmb3IgUGVybWl0IFJlbmV3YWwsIGFsbCBnZXR0aW5nIGNsb3NlIHRvIGJlaW5nIHRv 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the work is going to China ! > Found someone [ a mate] to do the job, I need to know is how many are inte rested in this first batch. > I intend to keep a bunch in stock later, as ALL Classic Europa's are going to need one sooner or later, I have inspected 3 recently for Permit Renewal , all getting close to being too far gone. > Europa are not going to get any more rubber hoses made. > The pipes will be from 6023 [ heat treated to T3 condition after bending i n the T 0 state] with rolled beads on each end. Tags on both ends to ground [ earth] to filler cap and ground circuit. > Will be a ''new'' Mod with the LAA as we can't use Franks Mod if there is t he SLIGHTEST deviation.Frank used 6063 T6 [ YES T6 !] How did he bend that ? So different material spec needs a new Mod ! ? > Will be a complete Kit with all connecting hoses, clips, wire etc..... > I will have a firm price in a week or so, best guess at the moment for the pipe only is about =C2=A3115 / =C2=A3120, but that depends on the number ? L ooking at the cost of the other items at the moment. > Best to ship [ especially to overseas] in multiples, as they will be big [ odd shape] can't be folded up like the rubber ones were ! ? [ mind, I expec t Maureen would have tried !] > So, who wants one in about 3 to 4 weeks ? > I have had a pipe made from gash steel to trial fit, [ got 3 Europa's to c heck with, all slightly different !] if / when I get the go ahead from enoug h of you I will be ready to do sets for real in the alloy. > Looks like a win / win situation going to alloy, wont get the stink throug h the poor quality rubber, and it will be lighter. Also got a ''cunning plan '' to aid faster filling, will report back on that later. > So Guys, show me your money ! > Nev > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neville Eyre > To: europa-list > Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:47 > Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made > > I started conversations with 3 potential manufactures a while back, confes s I have let it slip, will look back into it this week and report back. > Cheers, > Nev. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: graeme bird > To: europa-list > Sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:33 > Subject: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made > > > I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for th e > classic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and h as had > the mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well). > > a) does anyone else want one making, they would be cheaper in a batch > b) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in th e UK > would be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) > > Regards Graeme > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP > Just competed conversion to type > G(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709 > > > > > > > > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:39 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made From: "graeme bird" Obvioulsy, put me down for one. Also Roger Mills and Ian Mansfield have expressed an interest I did ask Europa if they wanted to handle them but no response as yet. Regards Graeme 07702361318 -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Just competed conversion to type G(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368521#368521 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:36 PM PST US From: Bob Fairall Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made TWUgdG9vIHBsZWFzZSBOZXYgLi4uLi4uIEJvYiBGYWlyYWxsLCBraXQgNDk0Lg0KDQpTZW50IGZy b20gbXkgaVBob25lDQoNCk9uIDE0IE1hciAyMDEyLCBhdCAxOTozMiwgIk5ldmlsbGUgRXlyZSIg PG5ldmV5cmVAYW9sLmNvLnVrPG1haWx0bzpuZXZleXJlQGFvbC5jby51az4+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQpS aWdodCwgdXBkYXRlOw0KSSBnYXZlIHVwIG9uIHRoZSB0aHJlZSBtYW51ZmFjdHVyZXJzIEkgYXNr ZWQgdG8gYmlkIG9uIGJlZm9yZSwgbm8gd29uZGVyIGFsbCB0aGUgd29yayBpcyBnb2luZyB0byBD aGluYSAhDQpGb3VuZCBzb21lb25lIFsgYSBtYXRlXSB0byBkbyB0aGUgam9iLCBJIG5lZWQgdG8g a25vdyBpcyBob3cgbWFueSBhcmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGZpcnN0IGJhdGNoLg0KSSBp 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c3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2 aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlz dCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkg QnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0K Xy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/RXVyb3Bh LUxpc3Q+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QNCl8t PQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQ0KXy09 IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhDQpf LT0NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiA8aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1z Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJp YnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBv cnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3Qg QWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24+ IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:05 PM PST US From: DAVID JOYCE Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made Nev=0A=C2-=0ACan you give dimensions for this please?=0A=C2-=0Argds=0AD J=0A=0ASent to you from David Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com=0Awww.southyorks spas.com=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Fairall =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 21:08=0ASubject: Re: Europa -List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made=0A =0A=0AMe too pleas e Nev ...... Bob Fairall, kit 494.=C2-=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn 1 4 Mar 2012, at 19:32, "Neville Eyre" wrote:=0A=0A=0ARig ht, update; =0A>I gave up on the three manufacturers I asked to bid on befo re, no wonder all the work is going to China ! =0A>Found someone [ a mate] to do the job, I need to know is=C2-how many are interested in this first batch. =0A>I intend to keep a bunch in stock later, as ALL Classic Europa' s are going to need one sooner or later, I have inspected 3 recently for Pe rmit Renewal, all getting close to being too far gone. =0A>Europa are not g oing to get any more rubber hoses made. =0A>The pipes will be from 6023 [ h eat treated to T3 condition after bending in the=C2-T 0 state] with rolle d beads on each end. Tags on both ends to ground [ earth] to filler cap and ground=C2-circuit. =0A>Will be a ''new'' Mod with the LAA as we can't us e Franks Mod if there is the SLIGHTEST deviation.Frank used 6063 T6 [ YES =C2- T6 !] How did he bend that ? So different material spec needs a new Mod ! ? =0A>Will be a complete Kit with all connecting hoses, clips, wire e tc..... =0A>I will have a firm price in a week or so, best guess at the mom ent for the pipe only is about=C2-=C3=82=C2=A3115 / =C3=82=C2=A3120, but that depends on the number ? Looking at the cost of the other items at the moment. =0A>Best to ship [ especially to overseas] in multiples, as they wi ll be big [ odd shape] can't be folded up like the rubber ones were ! ? [ m ind, I expect Maureen would have tried !] =0A>So, who wants one in about 3 to 4 weeks ? =0A>=C2-I have had a pipe made=C2-from gash=C2-steel=C2 -to trial fit, [ got 3 Europa's to check with, all slightly different !] if / when I get the go ahead from enough of you=C2-I will be ready to do sets for real in the alloy. =0A>Looks like a win / win situation going to a lloy, wont get the stink through the poor quality rubber, and it will be li ghter.=C2-Also got a ''cunning plan'' to aid faster filling, will report back on that later. =0A>So Guys, show me your money ! =0A>Nev=C2-=0A>=0A> =0A> =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Neville Eyre =0A>To: europa-list =0A>Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:47=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made=0A>=0A>=0A>I started conversations with 3 potential manufactures a wh ile back, confess I have let it slip, will look back into it this week and report back. =0A>Cheers, =0A>Nev.=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>-----Original Message---- -=0A>From: graeme bird =0A>To: europa-list =0A>Sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:33=0A>Subject: Europa-List: bat ch of classic fuel filler pipes being made=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Europa-List messa ge posted by: "graeme bird" I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for the =0Aclassic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has had =0Athe mod appro ved ( it may be with Ian as well). a) does anyone else want one making, the y would be cheaper in a batch=0Ab) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the UK =0Awould be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) R egards Graeme --------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY=0AMono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS /Warp drive FP=0AJust competed conversion to type =0AG(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36770 9#367709 arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p:// forums.matronics.com=0Ablank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>ar get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matr ======== =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E g(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3 =9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^=C3=C3=A8=C2=A5=C2=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=91&j )E=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2K=C2=B6=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',.+-=C3=C2=AD=C2=BA =C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AE=C3=9A=C2=AE=C5=92,{azf=C2 =A7=C3=88=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=C3=ABb=93+bz=C3=8B.r=C2=AC.+-R=C3=92=C2 =B9=C2=BB=C2=AE*m=C5-=B0=C2=B7!=C5-=C3=B7=99y=C2=C3=9C =9E:0=C5=BEZw=C2=B0=C3=9A=C3=88=C3=A8=C3=82=C3=87=9A =C2=ABE-=B9h=C2=B2=C2=ABy=C2=A9=C3=9D=C5=A1=C3=A7!=C5=A1=C3 =A7!=C5=A1=C5-=C3=9E=C2=A1=C2=AD=C3=A7-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82 f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B3Z=C2=BE(=C2=B6=C5-=C3 =84=C2=BA=C2=BA)h=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6m=C2=A7=C3=C3=B0=C3=83=C5=A1=C2=B6 =C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=8Dj=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C3=C3=A8=C2=A5 =C2=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:32 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made From: "europapa" Me too, please! Hope it will reduce the gas smell. Juergen Kit #161 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=368529#368529 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:52 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made Dave=0Adon't you have the XS cobra, you need Tim Ward's pipe=0AG=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0A From: DAVID JOYCE =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 22:28=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classi c fuel filler pipes being made=0A =0A=0ANev=0A=C2-=0ACan you give dimensi ons for this please?=0A=C2-=0Argds=0ADJ=0A=C2-=0ASent to you from David Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com=0Awww.southyorksspas.com=0A=0AFrom: Bob Faira ll =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 21:08=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made=0A =0A=0AMe too please Nev ...... Bob Fairall, kit 494.=C2-=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A =0AOn 14 Mar 2012, at 19:32, "Neville Eyre" wrote:=0A =0A=0ARight, update;=0A>I gave up on the three manufacturers I asked to bid on before, no wonder all the work is going to China !=0A>Found someone [ a mate] to do the job, I need to know is=C2-how many are interested in thi s first batch.=0A>I intend to keep a bunch in stock later, as ALL Classic E uropa's are going to need one sooner or later, I have inspected 3 recently for Permit Renewal, all getting close to being too far gone.=0A>Europa are not going to get any more rubber hoses made.=0A>The pipes will be from 6023 [ heat treated to T3 condition after bending in the=C2-T 0 state] with r olled beads on each end. Tags on both ends to ground [ earth] to filler cap and ground=C2-circuit.=0A>Will be a ''new'' Mod with the LAA as we can't use Franks Mod if there is the SLIGHTEST deviation.Frank used 6063 T6 [ YE S=C2- T6 !] How did he bend that ? So different material spec needs a new Mod ! ?=0A>Will be a complete Kit with all connecting hoses, clips, wire e tc.....=0A>I will have a firm price in a week or so, best guess at the mome nt for the pipe only is about=C2-=C3=82=C2=A3115 / =C3=82=C2=A3120, but t hat depends on the number ? Looking at the cost of the other items at the m oment.=0A>Best to ship [ especially to overseas] in multiples, as they will be big [ odd shape] can't be folded up like the rubber ones were ! ? [ min d, I expect Maureen would have tried !]=0A>So, who wants one in about 3 to 4 weeks ?=0A>=C2-I have had a pipe made=C2-from gash=C2-steel=C2-to trial fit, [ got 3 Europa's to check with, all slightly different !] if / when I get the go ahead from enough of you=C2-I will be ready to do sets for real in the alloy.=0A>Looks like a win / win situation going to alloy, wont get the stink through the poor quality rubber, and it will be lighter. =C2-Also got a ''cunning plan'' to aid faster filling, will report back o n that later.=0A>So Guys, show me your money !=0A>Nev=C2-=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A>From: Neville Eyre =0A>To: europa-list =0A>Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:47=0A> Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made=0A> =0A>=0A>I started conversations with 3 potential manufactures a while back, confess I have let it slip, will look back into it this week and report ba ck.=0A>Cheers,=0A>Nev.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: g raeme bird =0A>To: europa-list =0A>Sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:33=0A>Subject: Europa-List: batch of classi c fuel filler pipes being made=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Europa-List message posted by : "graeme bird" I am thinking of getting a batch of al uminum fuel filler pipes made for the =0Aclassic to replace the rubber trun k. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has had =0Athe mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well). a) does anyone else want one making, they would be c heaper in a batch=0Ab) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the UK =0Awould be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe) Regards Graem e --------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY=0AMono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP=0AJust competed conversion to type =0AG(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic o nline here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709 arg et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matro nics.com=0Ablank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>arget=_blank>h ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com=0Abl ank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution List" rel="nofollow" target=" _blank">http://www.matrttp://forums.matronics.com" rel="nofollow" target ="_blank">http://forumnofollow" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co m/contribution============= =C2=C2=B7=BA ~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC =C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^=C3=C3=A8=C2 =A5=C2=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=91&j)E=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2K=C2=B6=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8 =C5=BE',.+-=C3=C2=AD=C2=BA=C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2 =AE=C3=9A=C2=AE=C5=92,{azf=C2=A7=C3=88=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6=C3=ABb=93+bz =C3=8B.r=C2=AC.+-R=C3=92=C2=B9=C2=BB=C2=AE*m=C5-=B0=C2=B7!=C5-=C3 =B7=99y=C2=C3=9C=9E:0=C5=BEZw=C2=B0=C3=9A=C3=88=C3=A8=C3=82 =C3=87=9A=C2=ABE-=B9h=C2=B2=C2=ABy=C2=A9=C3=9D =C5=A1=C3=A7!=C5=A1=C3=A7!=C5=A1=C5-=C3=9E=C2=A1=C2=AD=C3=A7-=C3 =9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B3Z =C2=BE(=C2=B6=C5-=C3=84=C2=BA=C2=BA)h=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B6m=C2=A7=C3=C3 =B0=C3=83=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=8Dj=C3=B8=C2-j ======== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.