---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/13/12: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - Re: Friday DOTH? (Steven Pitt) 2. 12:49 AM - Approach and Landing Speeds (Carl Meek) 3. 01:36 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (David Joyce) 4. 01:39 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (David Joyce) 5. 01:52 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (Frans Veldman) 6. 02:46 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (Carl Meek) 7. 05:59 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (Max Cointe) 8. 06:49 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (Frans Veldman) 9. 07:04 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (David Joyce) 10. 07:55 AM - Dynon EFIS (Erich Trombley) 11. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Static (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com) 12. 11:13 AM - Re: Approach and Landing Speeds (Ivan Shaw) 13. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Static (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 14. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Static (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com) 15. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Static (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 16. 08:32 PM - Re: Dynon EFIS (Martin Tuck) 17. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Static (JR Gowing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:33 AM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Friday DOTH? Sorry Richard - unable to join you as not back in the air yet. Steve Pitt G-SMDH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 12:45 PM Subject: Europa-List: Friday DOTH? > > Hi Guys. > > Tomorrows weather looks reasonable in the UK. I am thinking of flying down > to Holmbeck Farm, Freebie in Flyer magazine. 500m. grass strip. No cafe on > site but a good pub for lunch just a mile walk in the local village. I am > planning to be there for around noon and look forward to seeing anyone > else who fancies the trip. > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dartdirx/holmbeck_farm_airfield.html > > I have spoken to the owner. PPR not essential but please check on website > prior to arrival and if using 29, make a short dogleg on approach so as to > miss the farm where there are horses stabled. Make blind calls on > Safetycom frequency. > > Richard Iddon > > G-RIXS > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:07 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds From: Carl Meek I'm just about to go through my tenth hour of flying my new Europa and I'm still working to refine my approach and landing. I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant to me is a 450m grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. I'd like to know =AD speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and round out. I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, but feeling generally I'm a bit fast =AD I'm wondering what speeds are recommended for best safety without compromising control. Thanks! -Carl. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:29 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:46:08 +0100 Carl Meek wrote: > I'm just about to go through my tenth hour of flying my >new Europa and I'm > still working to refine my approach and landing. > > I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant >to me is a 450m > grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. > > I'd like to know speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and >round out. > > I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, >but feeling generally > I'm a bit fast I'm wondering what speeds are >recommended for best safety > without compromising control. > > Thanks! > -Carl. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:05 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds Carl, I would stick with 70kt on the whole approach with a bit of power on, letting it decay to 60 just as you go over the hedge and chopping the power as you touch down. Forget speed at round out, just concentrate on getting the round out right and the speed looks after itself. 450m should be plenty, as long as there are no significant obstructions on approach. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:46:08 +0100 Carl Meek wrote: > I'm just about to go through my tenth hour of flying my >new Europa and I'm > still working to refine my approach and landing. > > I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant >to me is a 450m > grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. > > I'd like to know speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and >round out. > > I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, >but feeling generally > I'm a bit fast I'm wondering what speeds are >recommended for best safety > without compromising control. > > Thanks! > -Carl. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:17 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds On 04/13/2012 09:46 AM, Carl Meek wrote: > I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant to me is a 450m > grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. > > I'd like to know speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and round out. Depends on the stall speed/features of your ship. I have seen Europa's that have a 10 knot higher stall speed than some others. I wouldn't recommend my landing speed to them! > I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, but feeling > generally I'm a bit fast This might be due to your experience in other aircraft. Europa's tend to float a bit more than Cessna 172's. To give you an idea: My avarage particular landing speed (well, the short final at least) is 60-65 kots, if the runway is long enough and there is no wind shear or heavy turbulence. In a short field I tend to land with no more than 60 knots, and in the mountains with lots of wind shear and thermals I prefer to land with about 70 knots. I find these speeds giving me a large safety margin and at the same time not causing an excessive flare. Stall speed of my ship (high top tri gear) is 42 knots (no wing drop tendency) with flaps fully extended. I usually come in high enough to perform the final glide with the power fully idle, except for very short fields where I like to drag the ship over the threshold: then power off and flaps up and the bird immediately settles right on the spot. (If you want to practise this, don't do it initially at the numbers but choose some other spot on the runway so you have a reasonable margin in both directions). Like I said, I prefer to glide to the runway with power fully idle. Approach speed can be a bit lower if you like to come in with more power. Also, the Europa side slips reasonably well, this too can be part of your landing technique. I always land with flaps fully extended, even with cross winds; the rudder is powerfull enough to line up with the runway even at low landing speeds. It may be beneficial to land in cross winds with a bit more power so the air flow over the rudder remains higher. I'm wondering what speeds are recommended for > best safety without compromising control. Don't copy others landing speeds blindly! It depends on the particular features of the bird and the abilities and landing technics of the pilot. Frans ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds From: Carl Meek Thanks for the answers Frans and David. I've been typically flying short final at 70, over the fence at 65. However, I've found the float can be quite excessive - compared not only to cessna's but my previous Microlight Jabiru UL-450 (also slippery, and I used to come over the fence at 60, never more). I find the europa to float on the ground effect longer than I've been used to. It's no problem, just something to get used to. Unfortunately in my first few landings I was finding myself planting the wheels onto the runway rather than letting the speed decay in the float, and this was making for some terrible landings. I'm over that tendency now, but want to explore a slightly lower speed to see if I can reduce the float and land shorter. I know just a few knots can make quite a difference. Frans, am I understanding you correctly that for a short field you actually come 'over the fence' and then retract the flaps before touching down? I'm imagining you wind the flaps in, and the aircraft settles faster. If I understand correctly, it certainly sounds interesting and I'll have a play - no need on my home 450m, but could be interesting elsewhere. I'll have to go and remind myself of the full flap stall speed, but from memory I think mine is a bit higher than yours, I seem to recall something around 48kts, but I will check. -Carl. On 13/04/2012 09:49, "Frans Veldman" wrote: > >On 04/13/2012 09:46 AM, Carl Meek wrote: >> I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant to me is a 450m >> grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. >> >> I'd like to know speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and round out. > >Depends on the stall speed/features of your ship. I have seen Europa's >that have a 10 knot higher stall speed than some others. I wouldn't >recommend my landing speed to them! > >> I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, but feeling >> generally I'm a bit fast > >This might be due to your experience in other aircraft. Europa's tend to >float a bit more than Cessna 172's. > >To give you an idea: >My avarage particular landing speed (well, the short final at least) is >60-65 kots, if the runway is long enough and there is no wind shear or >heavy turbulence. In a short field I tend to land with no more than 60 >knots, and in the mountains with lots of wind shear and thermals I >prefer to land with about 70 knots. I find these speeds giving me a >large safety margin and at the same time not causing an excessive flare. >Stall speed of my ship (high top tri gear) is 42 knots (no wing drop >tendency) with flaps fully extended. >I usually come in high enough to perform the final glide with the power >fully idle, except for very short fields where I like to drag the ship >over the threshold: then power off and flaps up and the bird immediately >settles right on the spot. >(If you want to practise this, don't do it initially at the numbers but >choose some other spot on the runway so you have a reasonable margin in >both directions). >Like I said, I prefer to glide to the runway with power fully idle. >Approach speed can be a bit lower if you like to come in with more >power. Also, the Europa side slips reasonably well, this too can be part >of your landing technique. >I always land with flaps fully extended, even with cross winds; the >rudder is powerfull enough to line up with the runway even at low >landing speeds. It may be beneficial to land in cross winds with a bit >more power so the air flow over the rudder remains higher. > > I'm wondering what speeds are recommended for >> best safety without compromising control. > >Don't copy others landing speeds blindly! It depends on the particular >features of the bird and the abilities and landing technics of the pilot. > >Frans > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:26 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds Hi there All, First landing we made with F-LH were poor and bumpy as we managed them like we did with the Cessna 172! We discovered that speed is a point but feet and rudder efficiency is critical and landing was much better with a bit of power and fan blowing. As stall speed full flap is about 46-48, approach is done at 70 Knots, short final by 60 and then reducing power to touch by 52-55 but still with some blowing. This is made the ship nose up quite a lot... This could make the landing a bit longer but yet we had ever at least 600 meters. Next exercise will be for us to define a "short landing procedure" Cheers, Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 420 hours mcointe@free.fr -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Carl Meek Envoy: vendredi 13 avril 2012 11:44 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds Thanks for the answers Frans and David. ...want to explore a slightly lower speed to see if I can reduce the float and land shorter. I know just a few knots can make quite a difference. ...I'll have a play - no need on my home 450m, but could be interesting elsewhere. I'll have to go and remind myself of the full flap stall speed, but from memory I think mine is a bit higher than yours, I seem to recall something around 48kts, but I will check. -Carl. On 13/04/2012 09:49, "Frans Veldman" wrote: > >On 04/13/2012 09:46 AM, Carl Meek wrote: ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:05 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds On 04/13/2012 11:43 AM, Carl Meek wrote: > I've been typically flying short final at 70, over the fence at 65. > However, I've found the float can be quite excessive A little bit of extra speed has a very markable influence on the flare. Try a bit lower speed. If the stall characteristics of your ship are benign, there is nothing to worry about to get over the fence with 60, provided there is no strong wind or thermal situation. > Frans, am I understanding you correctly that for a short field you > actually come 'over the fence' and then retract the flaps before touching > down? You can do that just before touching down, but the timing is critical. If you to it too early you will get the opposite effect as you are taking the drag of the flaps away. I usually start retracting the flaps just when the airplane is about to settle down. This will take away the lift and also causes the wheels to have more grip on the ground, which is a good thing if you want to start braking immediately. This could be more interesting if the flaps could be operated much faster, i.e. by hand rather than by a servo. Anyone an idea why the flaps where made electric on the tri-gear? I have to confess that I modified the flap gear slightly: I drilled a hole in the arm of the torque tube just below the original hole, so the leverage to the servo is a bit less. This causes the flaps to extend 3 degrees further and also speeds up the movement of the flaps. (If I understand the history of the Europa correctly, the flaps where originally designed for 30 degrees, but the extension was limited to 27 degrees after one found out that 30 degrees allows the mono to take off earlier than control is achieved. In a tri-gear we don't have to worry too much about this.) Frans ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:38 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds Carl, Flying a mono, I don't have the luxury nor the distraction of adjustable flaps - they are inevitably fully down for landing. Also the touch down happens only when the plane stops flying at something very close to the stall speed since landing has to be in the '3 point' attitude which is much the same as the stall angle of attack. If you try to land at a higher speed and a flatter angle the mono wheel being in front of the wing centre of lift bounces you up in the air in an undignified fashion! Having said all that, full flap has a powerful breaking effect and I do not expect my ground run to be any more than about 100m. One minor point worth noting is that if you have a VP prop it should of course be in fully fine pitch - a coarse propeller produces a significantly longer float and a somewhat longer ground run. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:49:39 +0200 Frans Veldman wrote: > > > On 04/13/2012 09:46 AM, Carl Meek wrote: >> I'm interested in what speeds people use? Most relevant >>to me is a 450m >> grass bumpy strip in a Tri-Gear XS. >> >> I'd like to know speeds on Final, "Over the fence" and >>round out. > > Depends on the stall speed/features of your ship. I have >seen Europa's > that have a 10 knot higher stall speed than some others. >I wouldn't > recommend my landing speed to them! > >> I'm trying slightly different speeds on each landing, >>but feeling >> generally I'm a bit fast > > This might be due to your experience in other aircraft. >Europa's tend to > float a bit more than Cessna 172's. > > To give you an idea: > My avarage particular landing speed (well, the short >final at least) is > 60-65 kots, if the runway is long enough and there is no >wind shear or > heavy turbulence. In a short field I tend to land with >no more than 60 > knots, and in the mountains with lots of wind shear and >thermals I > prefer to land with about 70 knots. I find these speeds >giving me a > large safety margin and at the same time not causing an >excessive flare. > Stall speed of my ship (high top tri gear) is 42 knots >(no wing drop > tendency) with flaps fully extended. > I usually come in high enough to perform the final glide >with the power > fully idle, except for very short fields where I like to >drag the ship > over the threshold: then power off and flaps up and the >bird immediately > settles right on the spot. > (If you want to practise this, don't do it initially at >the numbers but > choose some other spot on the runway so you have a >reasonable margin in > both directions). > Like I said, I prefer to glide to the runway with power >fully idle. > Approach speed can be a bit lower if you like to come in >with more > power. Also, the Europa side slips reasonably well, this >too can be part > of your landing technique. > I always land with flaps fully extended, even with cross >winds; the > rudder is powerfull enough to line up with the runway >even at low > landing speeds. It may be beneficial to land in cross >winds with a bit > more power so the air flow over the rudder remains >higher. > > I'm wondering what speeds are recommended for >> best safety without compromising control. > > Don't copy others landing speeds blindly! It depends on >the particular > features of the bird and the abilities and landing >technics of the pilot. > >Frans > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:41 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Dynon EFIS Hi Martin, " 1) does the Rotax generator generate enough power to handle the additional power consumption of the EFIS and servos or would I need to add more power generation via a generator presumably mounted to the vacuum pump pad? " I am in the process of installing the Dynon Skyview w hich I presume has a higher current draw then the unit you are installin g. Current draw for Skyview and associated systems, less the autopilot, is only 3.5 amps ( +1.5 amp current draw to charge the back up battery) . Van's aircraft is planning to release the RV-12 with two Skyview disp lays and one back up battey all powered from the 912S stock generator. For my installation the Rotax generator is sufficient. "2) the servo ins tallation instructions say" Wire Sizing: While it is beyond the scope of this installation guide to advise on specific types of wiring for a particular aircraft, choice of wiring should be sized to 1) minimize voltage drop over the length of the particular wiring run, and 2) conduct the amount of current required by the subsystem without the wiring becoming warm to the touch." Any ideas how to figure this out ?" Regarding the A/P servo, I wired up the harness last night. I am using the SV32 servo (1.83 amps while engaged). Dynon sells a wiring harness for their A/P; 20 foot in length made up of (2) 20 AWG wires for power ing the servo and (5) 22 AWG wires for data and a/p disconnect. For the Europa this is more than sufficient. Rather than purchase Dynon's harn ess (I don't need 20 foot of wire) I wired up my own using the same spec wire. Stein Air sells 7-conductor pre-twised TEFZEL autopilot servo wi re with the same Dynon specifications as above for $1.45 per foot. The y also carry mil spec D-sub pins and connector shells to complete the in stallation for a fraction of the cost of the Dynon harness. http://stein air.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=280 Good luck,Erich TrombleyN28ET Cl assic Mono 914 ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4f883d8d2950c3ff5e1st02vuc ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com Hi All, I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. Th is requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I thin k that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access co ver. Has anyone done this successfully? thanks, Kevin Mono 914, 400hrs On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > Paul- > > I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe. It mounts a litt le more toward the leading edge as I recall. I think I mounted mine just be hind the spar. If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole i n your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount. I back ed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID. I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also. The four t ubes share a length of tubing to the wing root. I actually had to change th e tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in o nly an hour or so. I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also. Works fine. I have photos of it all if you need them. > > Jim Puglise > N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils > > From: "Bud Yerly" > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static > > Paul, > I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft. It hooks to the n ormal A/S and Altimeter. The Dynon probe is added to the other wing normall y and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa. I make a 5 inch access hole and build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10 inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for i ts AOA function. Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit static v alve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and 50 feet a t all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft. > > Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is. > > Regards, > Bud > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Europaul383 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:47 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static > > > Hi Bud (or anyone else who has an answer), > > I read your post while looking for info on the Dynon AoA. I was thinking o f installing this AoA, but their probe has just 2 holes - pitot and AoA - I' d then have to find another source for the static air - can you recall wh at George Reed did for static? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > XS Mono 383 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369480#369480 > > > http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics. com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m atronics.com/c================ > > > > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:24 AM PST US From: "Ivan Shaw" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds Through flight test find out what the indicated stall speed is at gross weight and full flap of YOUR aircraft, then multiply this by 1.3, this is your normal approach speed. If it is gusty then add half the gust speed, if it is flat calm or a stead breeze and you are light weight, [single place] then you can creeper it in carrying a little power at minus five knots standard approach speed. Practice at altitude flying in the landing configuration [full flap]at your standard approach speed and get used to the feel of the aircraft, 'recognize the first nibble of a stall', do it until you are really COMFORTABLE, practice rate one turns left and right keeping the ball centred. Ideally practice on a long wide runway with clear approaches, take your time so you develop a 'feel' for the aircraft. When you get it right the aircraft 'dies in your hand' one inch above your chosen touch down point!!! But don't expect it too often! Regards Ivan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: 13 April 2012 14:47 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Approach and Landing Speeds --> On 04/13/2012 11:43 AM, Carl Meek wrote: > I've been typically flying short final at 70, over the fence at 65. > However, I've found the float can be quite excessive A little bit of extra speed has a very markable influence on the flare. Try a bit lower speed. If the stall characteristics of your ship are benign, there is nothing to worry about to get over the fence with 60, provided there is no strong wind or thermal situation. > Frans, am I understanding you correctly that for a short field you > actually come 'over the fence' and then retract the flaps before > touching down? You can do that just before touching down, but the timing is critical. If you to it too early you will get the opposite effect as you are taking the drag of the flaps away. I usually start retracting the flaps just when the airplane is about to settle down. This will take away the lift and also causes the wheels to have more grip on the ground, which is a good thing if you want to start braking immediately. This could be more interesting if the flaps could be operated much faster, i.e. by hand rather than by a servo. Anyone an idea why the flaps where made electric on the tri-gear? I have to confess that I modified the flap gear slightly: I drilled a hole in the arm of the torque tube just below the original hole, so the leverage to the servo is a bit less. This causes the flaps to extend 3 degrees further and also speeds up the movement of the flaps. (If I understand the history of the Europa correctly, the flaps where originally designed for 30 degrees, but the extension was limited to 27 degrees after one found out that 30 degrees allows the mono to take off earlier than control is achieved. In a tri-gear we don't have to worry too much about this.) Frans ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:50 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Kevin- Given the length and size of the Gretz fixture, that would be a lot of stress on a small area surrounding the access cover. You might be able to reinforce around it, but in my install, I used 1/16 plywood and two layers of BID about 12 inches square. Jim Puglise N283JL ----- Original Message ----- From: "klinefelter kevin" Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:08:37 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Hi All, I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. This requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I think that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access cover. Has anyone done this successfully? thanks, Kevin Mono 914, 400hrs On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: Paul- I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe. It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall. I think I mounted mine just behind the spar. If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount. I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID. I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also. The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root. I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so. I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also. Works fine. I have photos of it all if you need them. Jim Puglise N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bud Yerly" < budyerly@msn.com > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Paul, I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft. It hooks to the normal A/S and Altimeter. The Dynon probe is added to the other wing normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa. I make a 5 inch access hole and build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10 inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for its AOA function. Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and 50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft. Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is. Regards, Bud
----- Original Message ----- From: Europaul383 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:47 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Hi Bud (or anyone else who has an answer), I read your post while looking for info on the Dynon AoA. I was thinking of installing this AoA, but their probe has just 2 holes - pitot and AoA - I'd then have to find another source for the static air - can you recall what George Reed did for static? Thanks in advance. Paul XS Mono 383 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369480#369480 http://www.matronnbsp ; via the Web title= http://forums.matronics.com/ href=" http://forums.matronics.com "> http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title= http://www.matronics.com/contribution href=" http://www.matronics.com/contribution "> http://www.matronics.com/c================= arget="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ================================== tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ================================== cs.com ================================== matronics.com/contribution ===================================
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:49 PM PST US From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Hi Jim, Do you think that mounting location will work well for the Dynon AOA? Is yours working well? In other words, is this worth doing? Thanks, Kevin Mono 914, 400hrs On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:47 PM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > Kevin- > > Given the length and size of the Gretz fixture, that would be a lot of str ess on a small area surrounding the access cover. You might be able to rein force around it, but in my install, I used 1/16 plywood and two layers of BI D about 12 inches square. > > Jim Puglise > N283JL > > From: "klinefelter kevin" > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:08:37 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static > > Hi All, > I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. T his requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I thi nk that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access c over. Has anyone done this successfully? > thanks, Kevin > Mono 914, 400hrs > On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > > Paul- > > I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe. It mounts a litt le more toward the leading edge as I recall. I think I mounted mine just be hind the spar. If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole i n your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount. I back ed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID. I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also. The four t ubes share a length of tubing to the wing root. I actually had to change th e tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in o nly an hour or so. I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also. Works fine. I have photos of it all if you need them. > > Jim Puglise > N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils > > From: "Bud Yerly" > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static > > Paul, > I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft. It hooks to the n ormal A/S and Altimeter. The Dynon probe is added to the other wing normall y and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa. I make a 5 inch access hole and build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10 inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for i ts AOA function. Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit static v alve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and 50 feet a t all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft. > > Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is. > > Regards, > Bud > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Europaul383 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:47 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static > > > Hi Bud (or anyone else who has an answer), > > I read your post while looking for info on the Dynon AoA. I was thinking o f installing this AoA, but their probe has just 2 holes - pitot and AoA - I' d then have to find another source for the static air - can you recall wh at George Reed did for static? > > Thanks in advance. > > Paul > > XS Mono 383 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=369480#369480 > > > http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics. com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m atronics.com/c================ > > > > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ========= > tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========= > cs.com > ========= > matronics.com/contribution > ========= > > > > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Kevin I have a Dynon D10A and want to fool with the AOA. I made a Home Grown probe that looks like it came from the Europa Factory (third leg) I haven't flown with it yet. Until I get some time on the bird, I didn't want to try a new position for the static and pitot. Thus my plan is to leave everything in the factory position including the AOA. I will try calibrating and see if the AOA gives any meaningful information. I made provisions that will allow me to easily move everything (Pitot, Static and AOA) to the front cover. Look through all the pics as I describe everything and my thinking in detail. http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86923 See: Homegrown AOA for Dynon D-10A. Plan "A", "B" and now "C / D". The "Taco" approach as I describe to making the inside cover flange for the front cover will work just as easy on completed wings. Since your top panels are already bonded on, making 3 aluminium tubes permanently mounted would be difficult, but I think with not too much effort you could run Tygon tubing forward. Find someone with small arms to help out! Run by Bud if it would be OK to drill a hole or holes through spar to run the tubing up forward. Good Luck Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:34 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dynon EFIS Thanks to all who sent advice. Still in planning stages. Martin On 4/13/2012 9:51 AM, Erich Trombley wrote: > Hi Martin, > > " 1) does the Rotax generator generate enough power to handle the > additional power consumption of the EFIS and servos or would I need to > add more power generation via a generator presumably mounted to the > vacuum pump pad? " > I am in the process of installing the Dynon Skyview which I presume > has a higher current draw then the unit you are installing. Current > draw for Skyview and associated systems, less the autopilot, is only > 3.5 amps ( +1.5 amp current draw to charge the back up battery). > Van's aircraft is planning to release the RV-12 with two Skyview > displays and one back up battey all powered from the 912S stock > generator. For my installation the Rotax generator is sufficient. > "2) the servo installation instructions say" Wire Sizing: While it is > beyond the scope of this installation guide to advise on specific types > of wiring for a particular aircraft, choice of wiring should be sized to > 1) minimize voltage drop over the length of the particular wiring run, > and 2) conduct the amount of current required by the subsystem without > the wiring becoming warm to the touch." Any ideas how to figure this out?" > > Regarding the A/P servo, I wired up the harness last night. I am > using the SV32 servo (1.83 amps while engaged). Dynon sells a wiring > harness for their A/P; 20 foot in length made up of (2) 20 AWG wires > for powering the servo and (5) 22 AWG wires for data and a/p > disconnect. For the Europa this is more than sufficient. Rather than > purchase Dynon's harness (I don't need 20 foot of wire) I wired up my > own using the same spec wire. Stein Air sells 7-conductor pre-twised > TEFZEL autopilot servo wire with the same Dynon specifications as > above for $1.45 per foot. They also carry mil spec D-sub pins and > connector shells to complete the installation for a fraction of the > cost of the Dynon harness. > http://steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=280 > Good luck, > Erich Trombley > N28ET Classic Mono 914 > > > ____________________________________________________________ > *53 Year Old Mom Looks 33* > The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried > consumerproducts.com > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:08 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static A question for anyone ... Does the Europa stall warner wing inlet have any use in Angle of Attack instrumentation? JR(Bob) Gowing Kit 328 in NSW, Oz From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Saturday, 14 April 2012 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static Hi Kevin I have a Dynon D10A and want to fool with the AOA. I made a Home Grown probe that looks like it came from the Europa Factory (third leg) I haven't flown with it yet. Until I get some time on the bird, I didn't want to try a new position for the static and pitot. Thus my plan is to leave everything in the factory position including the AOA. I will try calibrating and see if the AOA gives any meaningful information. I made provisions that will allow me to easily move everything (Pitot, Static and AOA) to the front cover. Look through all the pics as I describe everything and my thinking in detail. http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86923 See: Homegrown AOA for Dynon D-10A. Plan "A", "B" and now "C / D". The "Taco" approach as I describe to making the inside cover flange for the front cover will work just as easy on completed wings. Since your top panels are already bonded on, making 3 aluminium tubes permanently mounted would be difficult, but I think with not too much effort you could run Tygon tubing forward. Find someone with small arms to help out! Run by Bud if it would be OK to drill a hole or holes through spar to run the tubing up forward. Good Luck Ron Parigoris _____ No virus found in this message. 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