---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/18/12: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:00 AM - Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Max Cointe) 2. 03:39 AM - Re: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brushes (G-IANI) 3. 05:06 AM - mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly (Rowland Carson) 4. 07:14 AM - Re: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Raimo Toivio) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 6. 08:18 AM - SV: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 7. 09:12 AM - Re: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly (G-IANI) 8. 11:48 AM - landing gear frame geometry (Rowland Carson) 9. 11:59 AM - Re: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Bob Harrison) 10. 12:20 PM - SV: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 11. 01:13 PM - Re: landing gear frame geometry (Neville Eyre) 12. 01:23 PM - Re: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes (Bob Harrison) 13. 02:26 PM - Re: landing gear frame geometry (Tony Renshaw) 14. 02:30 PM - Re: landing gear frame geometry (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 15. 02:32 PM - Re: landing gear frame geometry (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 16. 07:33 PM - Re: Trailer (phillik747) 17. 09:01 PM - Re: landing gear frame geometry (Bob Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:42 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe" Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi There All, According to the Airmaster maintenance manual (see above) the brushes should be replaced when. they are used! Has anybody an idea of their life-time? We have nowadays 425 hours (and close to periodic 100) with original brushes and I'd like to avoid unplug them just to verify. Thanks for every answer. Section 11.3.2. Replacement of Slip-Ring Brushes The sensor/brush assembly brushes that run on the slip-ring will progressively wear down, as they act on the slip-rings. Once they have become so worn that the spring behind them is at full extension, they will no longer have good contact with the slip-ring. This may be observed during an inspection of the propeller, or may become apparent as a result of an open circuit failure of the pitch change mechanism (indicated by all three controller indicators flashing red). Rgds Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 420 hours mcointe@free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:41 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brushes Max At 300 hours the Airmaster controller on G-IANI indicated an open circuit (all three controller indicators flashing red). After unbolting the brush unit from the gearbox it was apparent that the middle brush had worn down to the point were it no longer contacted the slip ring. The other two brushes appeared to be about half worn. I could not find any rough area on the middle ring which would explain why one brush had worn more than the other two. I replaced the brush (with the spare provided with the prop) which involves dismantling the brush unit and soldering in the new brush. I have recently (at 360 hours) removed the bush unit and checked the brushes. The middle brush shows no sign of a high wear rate. The other two brushes show little additional wear and I estimate will last to about 800 hours total time. I contacted Martin at Airmaster to discus this failure. He told me that this does occasionally happen. Airmaster has the brushes manufactured to a specification but they have no way of checking individual brushes for its wear characteristics. So unfortunately some brushes are slightly softer and wear more rapidly. If you know what to look for you can spot this as more black dust will be around the slip rings and hub. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:37 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly I recall that a long time ago someone (perhaps Graham Singleton) posted a method of making the layup to connect the top end of bulkhead that provides the mass balance stops and the pitch pushrod containment to the fuselage top. The principle was to make some sort of splash moulding, if I remember rightly, before bonding on the fuselage top moulding. I thought at the time it seemed a great idea and I thought I'd remember how to fetch it up again. However, despite searching through all the available e-mail list archives, I don't seem to be able to hit on the right keyword(s) to bring up that posting. I did find something by Dave Simpson on 28 Jan 2002, but that isn't quite what I am looking for as it appears to be applicable _after_ the top is on. Can anyone point me to the source of this? Any clues welcome - who proposed it, when was it posted, or the full text if you have it available. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:55 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Max After three years /160 hrs trouble free service I removed the brush box to verify unused lenght of the brushes. I compared them to new ones. There was still 2/3 to go (= useful lenght) in every brush. So I suppose it would be a good time to change them for new in F-PMLH=C2=B4s case! I do remember Airmaster-Martin estimated me they will last typically at least 300 hrs. That is well inline. BTW it was a minor 20 minutes task to take it (a slip ring brush box, it is not necessary to open it!) away, verify and instal back (safety wireing takes some time). Will do it every 50 hrs or so in future. *** This was also very first time I removed also the blades to service the blade bearings and the hub internal parts (yes =93 I know Airmaster Service Manual call it to do first 25 hrs, 50 hrs, 100 hrs and then every single 100 hrs). I have to say it looked a new like. Also that red grease looked fresh and totally undirty. Anyway I removed all grease and did all the tasks as per manual. That took a whole day long but maybe I was extra careful /concerned. I feel it is better to do seldom and as well as you can (if there are no marks of problems) than often and a bit hurry. Grease I used was Aeroshell 22. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 258,15 /466 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi From: Max Cointe Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi There All, According to the Airmaster maintenance manual (see above) the brushes should be replaced when they are used! Has anybody an idea of their life-time? We have nowadays 425 hours (and close to periodic 100) with original brushes and I=99d like to avoid unplug them just to verify. Thanks for every answer. Section 11.3.2. Replacement of Slip-Ring Brushes The sensor/brush assembly brushes that run on the slip-ring will progressively wear down, as they act on the slip-rings. Once they have become so worn that the spring behind them is at full extension, they will no longer have good contact with the slip-ring. This may be observed during an inspection of the propeller, or may become apparent as a result of an open circuit failure of the pitch change mechanism (indicated by all three controller indicators flashing red). Rgds Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 420 hours mcointe@free.fr ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:08 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly Rowland=0Ahave a look at these pix. Tempo attach the splash mouldings with the top clecoed on then finish the assembly with the top off.=0AGraham=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Rowland Carson =0ATo: Europa e-mail list list =0A Sent: Wednesday, 18 April 2012, 13:05=0ASubject: Europa-List: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson =0A=0AI recall that a long time ago someone (perhaps Graham Singleton) posted a method of making the layup to connect the top end of bulkhead that provides the mass balance stops an d the pitch pushrod containment to the fuselage top. The principle was to m ake some sort of splash moulding, if I remember rightly, before bonding on the fuselage top moulding. I thought at the time it seemed a great idea and I thought I'd remember how to fetch it up again.=0A=0AHowever, despite sea rching through all the available e-mail list archives, I don't seem to be a ble to hit on the right keyword(s) to bring up that posting.=0A=0AI did fin d something by Dave Simpson on 28 Jan 2002, but that isn't quite what I am looking for as it appears to be applicable _after_ the top is on.=0A=0ACan anyone point me to the source of this? Any clues welcome - who proposed it, when was it posted, or the full text if you have it available.=0A=0Ain fri endship=0A=0ARowland=0A=0A| Rowland Carson- - - - - ... that's Ro wland with a 'w' ...=0A| - - - - - - h ttp://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk=0A| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson- - - Facebook: Rowland Carson=0A| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowl ==================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:58 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Max, My first set of brushes lasted only 110 hours, then all three were worn out - got the fault indication on the controller panel. Martin at Airmaster said it was maybe a bit short even for a new prop, but shorter than normal should be expected due to new slip rings. "New" is a relative term - the brushes and rings were unused when the hours started counting, but they had both been manufactured some 5 years earlier. Whether this played any role, I don't know. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:42 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mass balance stop and pushrod containment assembly Rowland I have the pictures (similar to what Graham has sent) for what you want ready to go up on the web site. They really need a written description of the method which I have not yet had time to write but I will get them in as soon as I can. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:11 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry I've made a big hole in the firewall and am trying to get my landing gear frame (LG01/3) aligned with the firewall according to the manual page 21M-2. That calls for 3 tubes (top horizontal and 2 vertical side ones) to be between 1mm & 3mm from the vertical face of the firewall. After some fettling of the holes and tunnel radii the frame goes in without too much effort, but when I sight down the firewall for a rough check of how far away the relevant tubes are I find they do not appear co-planar. The top tube is too far away at the starboard side, but the starboard vertical tube is almost touching the firewall. The top tube is about the right distance from the firewall at the port side, but the port vertical tube could stand coming a little closer. Oh, and the bottom horizontal tube is pretty much parallel to the firewall. The fuselage bottom moulding is sitting on a dolly that provides support for the curve of the underside and I have not observed any measurable twist in it. I took the LG frame out and checked the parallelism of the tubes in question by laying a steel flat diagonally across (the piece I had wasn't long enough to stretch from side to side or top to bottom); it rocks audibly on 3 out of 4 of the combinations. My digital level also shows that the top and bottom tubes are about a degree different from each other and the side vertical tubes are about half a degree different from each other. Is this significant? Should I ask for a replacement LG frame? My next step, if no other advice forthcoming, would be to try setting the alignment with the swinging arm LG02 fitted temporarily, and accept whatever misalignment the tubes have with the firewall. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:32 AM PST US From: Bob Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi! Svein and all CS /Inflight variable props. When I had my MT CS prop it was necessary for me to fabricate my own bracket to hold the brush holder in place to mate with the slip rings. The major requirement of adjustment if I recall correctly was that the brushes should be at a 2 degree "Trailing" attitude( with no tolerances applicable) to the direction of rotation and exactly on the centre line. (It was completely unacceptable that there should be any leading/"Pushing" angle) I would expect that MT are one of the most experienced producers of this type of Propeller and would never attempt to contradict their design wishes. Hope this information helps you not forgetting that the actual measurement of the dimension as small as that is quite a trial of competence of the average builder. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Now with Rotax 914 and Woodcomp SR 3000. ( with one brush replaced ) since new but last season was given a works refurb in Cech .at 300 hours approx. When I've time I will do some hour calcs. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: 18 April 2012 16:17 Subject: SV: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Max, My first set of brushes lasted only 110 hours, then all three were worn out - got the fault indication on the controller panel. Martin at Airmaster said it was maybe a bit short even for a new prop, but shorter than normal should be expected due to new slip rings. "New" is a relative term - the brushes and rings were unused when the hours started counting, but they had both been manufactured some 5 years earlier. Whether this played any role, I don't know. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:56 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi Bob, Appreciate your comments regarding correct installation of the brushes relative to the rings. My Airmaster was delivered with a brush bracket for Rotax 912ULS. The holes matched exactly the holes on the left side of the gearbox, and the distance to the slip rings looks right (small unsupported length of the brushes sticking out, yet clearance to avoid the bracket touching the rings). Regards Svein ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry From: Neville Eyre Hi Rowland, Cut some 1/8''ply shims 1'' wide by about 10'' long, push the frame into th e tunnel and slip the shims behind the VERTICAL frame tubes. [ or tape them to the aft of the tubes] Check that the lower U/C frame mounting tube is level with the spar pin bu shes, useing a straight edge / level set on the pins [slot the holes in the firewall to achieve this] then kick / whack with a soft hammer the frame b ack so it nips the two shims, that is where you drill / bolt it. The frame tube geometry is all over the place, ignore it, just get the lowe r tube level and the two vertical tubes 1/8'' off the firewall. Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 19:48 Subject: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry I've made a big hole in the firewall and am trying to get my landing gear f rame LG01/3) aligned with the firewall according to the manual page 21M-2. That alls for 3 tubes (top horizontal and 2 vertical side ones) to be between 1m m & mm from the vertical face of the firewall. After some fettling of the holes and tunnel radii the frame goes in without too uch effort, but when I sight down the firewall for a rough check of how far way the relevant tubes are I find they do not appear co-planar. The top tub e is oo far away at the starboard side, but the starboard vertical tube is almos t ouching the firewall. The top tube is about the right distance from the irewall at the port side, but the port vertical tube could stand coming a ittle closer. Oh, and the bottom horizontal tube is pretty much parallel to the irewall. The fuselage bottom moulding is sitting on a dolly that provides upport for the curve of the underside and I have not observed any measurabl e wist in it. I took the LG frame out and checked the parallelism of the tubes in questio n by aying a steel flat diagonally across (the piece I had wasn't long enough to tretch from side to side or top to bottom); it rocks audibly on 3 out of 4 of he combinations. My digital level also shows that the top and bottom tubes are bout a degree different from each other and the side vertical tubes are abo ut alf a degree different from each other. Is this significant? Should I ask for a replacement LG frame? My next step, if no other advice forthcoming, would be to try setting the lignment with the swinging arm LG02 fitted temporarily, and accept whatever isalignment the tubes have with the firewall. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:52 PM PST US From: Bob Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi! Svein , I would still prefer to measure the actual angles and especially prove them to be "trailing " Regards Bob H From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: 18 April 2012 20:20 Subject: SV: Europa-List: Airmaster AP332: replacement of slip ring brishes Hi Bob, Appreciate your comments regarding correct installation of the brushes relative to the rings. My Airmaster was delivered with a brush bracket for Rotax 912ULS. The holes matched exactly the holes on the left side of the gearbox, and the distance to the slip rings looks right (small unsupported length of the brushes sticking out, yet clearance to avoid the bracket touching the rings). Regards Svein ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry From: Tony Renshaw Reference the landing gear frame, I recall making up a redux flox mix and be dding in the tubes, so that the load were better distributed. I intend on pl ugging the ends, probably with timber dowels prior to drilling and final att achment, so I can tighten the bolts fully without deforming the tubes, plus a lso it stops CO2 ingress into my tunnel area. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 19/04/2012, at 6:19 AM, Neville Eyre wrote: > Hi Rowland, > Cut some 1/8''ply shims 1'' wide by about 10'' long, push the frame into t he tunnel and slip the shims behind the VERTICAL frame tubes. [ or tape them to the aft of the tubes] > Check that the lower U/C frame mounting tube is level with the spar pin b ushes, useing a straight edge / level set on the pins [slot the holes in the firewall to achieve this] then kick / whack with a soft hammer the frame ba ck so it nips the two shims, that is where you drill / bolt it. > The frame tube geometry is all over the place, ignore it, just get the low er tube level and the two vertical tubes 1/8'' off the firewall. > Cheers, > Nev. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rowland Carson > To: Europa e-mail list list > Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 19:48 > Subject: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry > > > > I've made a big hole in the firewall and am trying to get my landing gear f rame > (LG01/3) aligned with the firewall according to the manual page 21M-2. Tha t > calls for 3 tubes (top horizontal and 2 vertical side ones) to be between 1 mm & > 3mm from the vertical face of the firewall. > > After some fettling of the holes and tunnel radii the frame goes in withou t too > much effort, but when I sight down the firewall for a rough check of how f ar > away the relevant tubes are I find they do not appear co-planar. The top t ube is > too far away at the starboard side, but the starboard vertical tube is alm ost > touching the firewall. The top tube is about the right distance from the > firewall at the port side, but the port vertical tube could stand coming a > little closer. Oh, and the bottom horizontal tube is pretty much parallel t o the > firewall. The fuselage bottom moulding is sitting on a dolly that provides > support for the curve of the underside and I have not observed any measura ble > twist in it. > > I took the LG frame out and checked the parallelism of the tubes in questi on by > laying a steel flat diagonally across (the piece I had wasn't long enough t o > stretch from side to side or top to bottom); it rocks audibly on 3 out of 4 of > the combinations. My digital level also shows that the top and bottom tube s are > about a degree different from each other and the side vertical tubes are a bout > half a degree different from each other. > > Is this significant? Should I ask for a replacement LG frame? > > My next step, if no other advice forthcoming, would be to try setting the > alignment with the swinging arm LG02 fitted temporarily, and accept whatev er > misalignment the tubes have with the firewall. > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:16 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry Nev=0Acould I add " make sure the top tube is far enough from the firewall to allow the shock cord to go through easily" or isn't that=0Aa problem?=0A regards=0AGraham=0Aprobably bump into you next week! (unless you see me fir st! -!:-)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Neville Eyre =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 18 April 2012, 21:10=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry =0A =0A=0AHi Rowland,=0ACut some 1/8''ply shims 1'' wide by about 10'' long , push the frame into the tunnel and slip the shims behind the VERTICAL fra me tubes. [ or tape them to the aft of the tubes]=0ACheck that the lower- U/C frame mounting tube is level with the spar pin bushes, useing a straig ht edge / level set on the pins-[slot the holes in the firewall to achiev e this] then kick / whack with a soft hammer the frame back so it nips the two shims, that is where you drill / bolt it.=0AThe frame tube geometry is all over the place, ignore it, just get the lower tube level and the two ve rtical tubes 1/8'' off the firewall.=0ACheers,=0ANev. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:54 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry Tony=0Abetter to plug with thick wall 4130 tube imho=0Aregards=0AGraham=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony Renshaw =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, 18 April 2012, 22:24=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: landin g gear frame geometry=0A =0A=0AReference the landing gear frame, I recall m aking up a redux flox mix and bedding in the tubes, so that the load were b etter distributed. I intend on plugging the ends, probably with timber dowe ls prior to drilling and final attachment, so I can tighten the bolts fully without deforming the tubes, plus also it stops CO2 ingress into my tunnel area.=0ARegards-=0ATony Renshaw-=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0AOn 19/04/ 2012, at 6:19 AM, Neville Eyre wrote:=0A=0A=0AHi Rowlan d,=0A>Cut some 1/8''ply shims 1'' wide by about 10'' long, push the frame i nto the tunnel and slip the shims behind the VERTICAL frame tubes. [ or tap e them to the aft of the tubes]=0A>Check that the lower- U/C frame mounti ng tube is level with the spar pin bushes, useing a straight edge / level s et on the pins-[slot the holes in the firewall to achieve this] then kick / whack with a soft hammer the frame back so it nips the two shims, that i s where you drill / bolt it.=0A>The frame tube geometry is all over the pla ce, ignore it, just get the lower tube level and the two vertical tubes 1/8 '' off the firewall.=0A>Cheers,=0A>Nev.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original Messag e-----=0A>From: Rowland Carson =0A>To: Europa e-ma il list list =0A>Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 19:48=0A >Subject: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Europa-Li st message posted by: Rowland Carson I've made a big hole in the firewall and am trying to get my landing gear frame =0A(LG0 1/3) aligned with the firewall according to the manual page 21M-2. That =0A calls for 3 tubes (top horizontal and 2 vertical side ones) to be between 1 mm & =0A3mm from the vertical face of the firewall. After some fettling of the holes and tunnel radii the frame goes in without too =0Amuch effort, bu t when I sight down the firewall for a rough check of how far =0Aaway the r elevant tubes are I find they do not appear co-planar. The top tube is =0At oo far away at the starboard side, but the starboard vertical tube is almos t =0Atouching the firewall. The top tube is about the right distance from t he =0Afirewall at the port side, but the port vertical tube could stand com ing a =0Alittle closer. Oh, and the bottom horizontal tube is pretty much p arallel to the =0Afirewall. The fuselage bottom moulding is sitting on a do lly that provides =0Asupport for the curve of the underside and I have not observed any measurable =0Atwist in it. I took the LG frame out and checked the parallelism of the tubes in question by =0Alaying a steel flat diagona lly across (the piece I had wasn't long enough to =0Astretch from side to s ide or top to bottom); it rocks audibly on 3 out of 4 of =0Athe combination s. My digital level also shows that the top and bottom tubes are =0Aabout a degree different from each other and the side vertical tubes are about =0A half a degree different from each other. Is this significant? Should I ask for a replacement LG frame? My next step, if no other advice forthcoming, w ould be to try setting the =0Aalignment with the swinging arm LG02 fitted t emporarily, and accept whatever =0Amisalignment the tubes have with the fir ewall. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland w ith a 'w' ...=0A| http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk s: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson arget=_blank>http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com=0Ablank>http://www =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:22 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Trailer From: "phillik747" I'd be interested in this. Please send to helperpsp at gmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371236#371236 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:05 PM PST US From: Bob Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry Hi! All.......................and use suitably sized saddle washers under the nuts of any bolts that are tightened up on the tubes.! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 18 April 2012 22:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry Tony better to plug with thick wall 4130 tube imho regards Graham _____ From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Wednesday, 18 April 2012, 22:24 Subject: Re: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry Reference the landing gear frame, I recall making up a redux flox mix and bedding in the tubes, so that the load were better distributed. I intend on plugging the ends, probably with timber dowels prior to drilling and final attachment, so I can tighten the bolts fully without deforming the tubes, plus also it stops CO2 ingress into my tunnel area. Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 19/04/2012, at 6:19 AM, Neville Eyre wrote: Hi Rowland, Cut some 1/8''ply shims 1'' wide by about 10'' long, push the frame into the tunnel and slip the shims behind the VERTICAL frame tubes. [ or tape them to the aft of the tubes] Check that the lower U/C frame mounting tube is level with the spar pin bushes, useing a straight edge / level set on the pins [slot the holes in the firewall to achieve this] then kick / whack with a soft hammer the frame back so it nips the two shims, that is where you drill / bolt it. The frame tube geometry is all over the place, ignore it, just get the lower tube level and the two vertical tubes 1/8'' off the firewall. Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Carson Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 19:48 Subject: Europa-List: landing gear frame geometry > I've made a big hole in the firewall and am trying to get my landing gear frame (LG01/3) aligned with the firewall according to the manual page 21M-2. That calls for 3 tubes (top horizontal and 2 vertical side ones) to be between 1mm & 3mm from the vertical face of the firewall. After some fettling of the holes and tunnel radii the frame goes in without too much effort, but when I sight down the firewall for a rough check of how far away the relevant tubes are I find they do not appear co-planar. The top tube is too far away at the starboard side, but the starboard vertical tube is almost touching the firewall. The top tube is about the right distance from the firewall at the port side, but the port vertical tube could stand coming a little closer. Oh, and the bottom horizontal tube is pretty much parallel to the firewall. The fuselage bottom moulding is sitting on a dolly that provides support for the curve of the underside and I have not observed any measurable twist in it. I took the LG frame out and checked the parallelism of the tubes in question by laying a steel flat diagonally across (the piece I had wasn't long enough to stretch from side to side or top to bottom); it rocks audibly on 3 out of 4 of the combinations. My digital level also shows that the top and bottom tubes are about a degree different from each other and the side vertical tubes are about half a degree different from each other. Is this significant? Should I ask for a replacement LG frame? My next step, if no other advice forthcoming, would be to try setting the alignment with the swinging arm LG02 fitted temporarily, and accept whatever misalignment the tubes have with the firewall. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson .... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution <======================== ====================3D=====3 D======================== ===============D===========3 D======================== =========3=================3 D======================== ================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.