Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings (europapa)
2. 12:42 AM - Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings (europapa)
3. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings (Robert Borger)
4. 07:43 AM - Re: Door (mis)fit (jglazener)
5. 07:50 AM - ELT current demand ()
6. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: Door (mis)fit (Max Cointe)
7. 08:07 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT current demand (John Morgensen)
8. 10:26 AM - Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings (Terry Seaver (terrys))
9. 01:52 PM - Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings (europapa)
10. 07:18 PM - GA propellers (Fred Klein)
11. 11:51 PM - Re: Re: Door (mis)fit (JR Gowing)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings |
Bob,
I have got a two blade MT electrical constant speed propeller.
So I preset the rpm I want the prop to turn and the control unit keeps
for example the engine at 5200rpm even with the throttle at 40%.
So the power the engine delivers cant be calculated via manifold pressure and
rpm. As there is no indicator for the pitch of the blades.
So I can not rate the lack of power by numbers.
The "longer suction tube" are the 15mm the carbs have been retracted from there
original position due to the carbheaters. The length the carbheater body is adding.
Sorry for my bad phrasing.
Juergen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373457#373457
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| Subject: | Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings |
I also installed a 4 channel EGT meter and even with well balanced carbs depending
on the
power setting there will be no equality. It differs a bit but with no regular pattern.
The next thing is hat the power setting meter never shows more than 760C.
As the EGT meter is all new for me, I am not sure how to read this.
I suspect the engine running to lean.
What do you think?
Juergen
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373458#373458
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| Subject: | Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings |
Juergen,
OK, I'm assuming a constant speed prop on 912S as the 914 does not need carb heat
and a 912 does not normally call for a constant speed prop.
Yes you can rate the power by the numbers. The charts on page 5-5 of the Operators
Manual give power vs fuel flow, manifold pressure, etc. These should tell
you what power is produced at what RPM for a given manifold pressure and what
fuel flow to expect at that power setting.
At flat pitch, takeoff setting on the prop, and 100% throttle, what is the RPM
and what is the manifold pressure?
The 912S operators manual says you should have 5800 RPM, the manifold pressure
should be around 30 in or 1 bar (1015.8 hPa).
At the same time, the fuel pressure should be between 2.2 psi & 5.8 psi (0.15 bar
& 0.4 bar) and fuel flow 7 gal/hr (27 l/h).
If you don't reach those numbers, then you are down on power and you must figure
out why. It's either not receiving enough air flow, enough fuel or the ignition
could be failing at some, lower, RPM. Which of those numbers are not within
the operating specifications.
It is not bad phrasing, you are doing great. I have never seen one of the carb
heaters so I did not understand that they change the length of the intake tubes.
That should not be an issue as long as the cross-sectional area has not been
reduced.
So, find out your takeoff numbers and see if there is an indication of why you
are not making the necessary power.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On May 21, 2012, at 2:18 AM, europapa wrote:
Bob,
I have got a two blade MT electrical constant speed propeller.
So I preset the rpm I want the prop to turn and the control unit keeps
for example the engine at 5200rpm even with the throttle at 40%.
So the power the engine delivers cant be calculated via manifold pressure and
rpm. As there is no indicator for the pitch of the blades.
So I can not rate the lack of power by numbers.
The "longer suction tube" are the 15mm the carbs have been retracted from there
original position due to the carbheaters. The length the carbheater body is adding.
Sorry for my bad phrasing.
Juergen
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Door (mis)fit |
Thanks both for your ideas. The problem really is only with the front top. Top,
back and bottom edges fit nicely, the tabs need trimming but would end up in
place. If I start out using the top front as reference I would get gaps on all
other edges and the reinforced parts of the tabs would not fit in the recess
anymore. Perhaps the best thing is to finish it as-is and then fill the gap in
the front edge with flox.
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373474#373474
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| Subject: | ELT current demand |
Cheers,
I have not yet chosen the model of ELT for inclusion on my Europa,
but must make way for its eventual installation. That means fuse and wire
size choice.
Rather than spend time researching hesitant advertisers, I'm asking
for your advice on the current requirement of your or any ELT.
I am aware of the transmit level but of course it's for such a short time
that there must be an average level plus safe margin with which to work.
Thanks in advance.
Ferg
C-FFGG mono 914 CS prop
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Door (mis)fit |
How fits the window? Any adjustment ? The door frame might be wrong (not
perpendicular on each dimension...)
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 420 hours
mcointe@free.fr
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de jglazener
Envoy: lundi 21 mai 2012 16:42
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet: Europa-List: Re: Door (mis)fit
Thanks both for your ideas. The problem really is only with the front top.
Top, back and bottom edges fit nicely, the tabs need trimming but would end
up in place. If I start out using the top front as reference I would get
gaps on all other edges and the reinforced parts of the tabs would not fit
in the recess anymore. Perhaps the best thing is to finish it as-is and then
fill the gap in the front edge with flox.
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373474#373474
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT current demand |
The ELT is self-contained and battery operated. The installation
concerns are antenna location and periodic replacement of the batteries.
john
On 5/21/2012 7:53 AM, f.kyle@sympatico.ca wrote:
> Cheers,
> I have not yet chosen the model of ELT for inclusion on my Europa,
> but must make way for its eventual installation. That means fuse and wire
> size choice.
> Rather than spend time researching hesitant advertisers, I'm asking
> for your advice on the current requirement of your or any ELT.
> I am aware of the transmit level but of course it's for such a short time
> that there must be an average level plus safe margin with which to work.
> Thanks in advance.
> Ferg
> C-FFGG mono 914 CS prop
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings |
Hi Juergen,
In our monowheel XS with Rotax 912S we use the Skydrive carb heaters.
We originally had them on all the time, but had some trouble with
restarting the engine about 15 minutes after shut down, so we installed
a water valve to allow turning off the water after landing, to keep the
carbs cooler on the taxi back to the hanger.
We did some climb testing on a hot day to see if there was any
difference in performance, heat on vs heat off. There was no
difference, at least in our plane.
Regards,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of europapa
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:43 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Lack of power with water heated carb body
mountings
Hello again,
after eight months of modifying my classic I am back in the air again.
My flight inspector said after he test flew the aircraft: "funny
aircraft but be careful with your payload, it is absolutely not
overpowered!"
Well, I thought that impression you get when you are used to turboprops,
like he is.
But today it was me who made the same painful experience.
It is not so easy to realize the lack of with a CS prop but my europa
now climbs solo as before with passenger and it seams the have all
shortened the runways.
After my last flight today I opened the cowling after half an hour on
ground and even the top of the carbs have been that hot you could not
leave your hand on them.
Now it is clear for me: I need a stopcock to use the hot water only when
needed.
But I wonder if it is only the heat that is responsible for the lack of
power
or also the longer suction tube ( don't know the right English term).
Has anybody made similar experiences.
Tomorrow I have my test flight with the flight instructor but I will not
let him in before I have got it fixed.
Thank you
Juergen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373406#373406
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| Subject: | Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body mountings |
Hi,
in the mailing list I can see all of your replies but not here in the forum
[Question] .
I am very happy to see so many help by real experts.
Thank you so much.
Karl, Craig, Bob, Pete,Terry, John and all the others, thank you so much.
I am now thinking too that the added heat is not an issue.
Today I had my prof-check or how do you call it?
At full throttle and even with my not so light flight inspector the power produced
by my 912s at high rpm / full throttle was good.
But when reducing the rpm / throttle the engine became rough like an old diesel
engine.
I am rather confused.
Now I have removed the carbs and will overhaul them.
If that will not bee the answer I will totally remove the carb heaters to see if
that will solve the problem.
If there will still no cure ......... dose anybody wants to buy a very nice Europa
Trigear...... ( no way! ;-) ).
More information later, I am really tiered after this long and exciting day.
CU
Juergen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373508#373508
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Once again, the value of the europa-list and being part of this on-
line community was demonstrated to me.
Though I'm well aware of the advantages of CS props, I've opted for a
Ground Adjustable prop, at least for initial flight tests, for a
variety of reasons including cost, personal unfamiliarity w/ CS prop
ops, complexity, and cockpit workload issues. Finding the right prop
for Ms. Suburopa was not as easy as I'd anticipated...it was a
challenge to find one which could spin counter-clockwise, absorb 140
hp, rev. higher than 2700 rpm, and be not larger than 66" diameter.
Other than putting the cut-down Warp Drive blades in their GA hub, I
found nothing...until...I came across www.gaprop.eu...a Ukrainian
company which is affiliated w/ a Finnish company, Light Avia (light.avia@gmail.com
).
While I was hesitant to deal w/ a company from so far away which had
no representation in the US, when I saw that the company had the
office in Finland, on a lark I emailed Raimo Tolvio...lo and behold,
the office was only 15 km from Raimo's home! He kindly volunteered to
check out the company, and thanks to him, my confidence became high
enough ultimately to wire transfer funds. When the prop was delivered
in Finland, Raimo again went to the Light Avia office, inspected each
part...and even repacked the parcel to ensure it would arrive safely
in the US.
I've just received 3 beautiful carbon-fiber blades (autoclaved w/ SS
leading edge) w/ padded covers, a CNC-machined, anodized alum. hub, a
90 mm CNC-machined aluminum extension, and all required bolts. The
prop is good for up to 150 hp and 2900 rpm. I consider the quality
superb w/ the exception of the "CW 8.8" stamped bolts which I know
nothing about...(my local auto parts store sez the "CW" stands for
Chinese Warehouse...I'm not sure if he was serious). Price for the
entire package, including 5 day shipping from Finland to the west
coast USA was 815 euros.
Of course, GA Prop / Light Avia make most of their props for Rotax 9XX
engines. As I'm not yet flying, I cannot offer any operational
experience, but I would certainly recommend giving this company
consideration if your're looking for a ground adjustable prop. Raimo
mentioned that he'd heard of impromptu static testing by Finnish
airmen which showed 20 to 30% increase in static thrust over the WD
blades set at equivalent blade angles and running at the same rpm.
Cheers,
Fred
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Door (mis)fit |
Dear Jeroen
I think you should fit the hinges, heat the door frame and bend it to fit
the fuselage, let it cool and then fit and bond in the window.
The door should then be fixed in shape and you can remove and refit it as
desired without it altering in shape.
JR "Bob" Gowing Kit 327 in Oz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jglazener
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2012 12:42 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Door (mis)fit
Thanks both for your ideas. The problem really is only with the front top.
Top, back and bottom edges fit nicely, the tabs need trimming but would end
up in place. If I start out using the top front as reference I would get
gaps on all other edges and the reinforced parts of the tabs would not fit
in the recess anymore. Perhaps the best thing is to finish it as-is and then
fill the gap in the front edge with flox.
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373474#373474
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