---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/23/12: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:14 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/22/12 (van eldik) 2. 09:49 AM - Re: ELT current demand (rampil) 3. 09:54 AM - Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets (rampil) 4. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets (craig) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:04 AM PST US From: van eldik Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/22/12 On 23 May 2012, at 10:01, Europa-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-05-22&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-05-22&Archive=Europa > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 05/22/12: 3 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:44 AM - for interest - float bowl gaskets (William Daniell) > 2. 05:12 PM - Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets (Bud Yerly) > 3. 05:47 PM - Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:44:03 AM PST US > From: "William Daniell" > Subject: Europa-List: for interest - float bowl gaskets > > > For the record an interesting thing happened to me with my zenith which has > an aftermarket turbo fitted. > > Above 11k full power caused vibration - I thought this was just a normal > "fault" of the aftermarket turbo. Take off from 8500 etc all normal. > However the problem got worse and manifested itself at lower altitudes. > > We put on a vernier to manually adjust waste-gate and the problem showed up > at higher MP - over 34". Otherwise the engine ran normally. It felt like > fuel starvation. > > New carb vacuum chamber diaphragms, carb balance, full fuel system check, > fuel pressure - no change. All readings completely normal except for the > vibration and minor power loss at higher altitudes and power settings. > > Just out of interest we changed the carb float bowl gaskets which had been > changed recently using rotax original parts. We put in after market softer > cork gaskets because that's what we had. This cured the problem completely. > > The conclusion was that the float bowls had been dropped or the mating faces > had been damaged in some very minor way allowing air to get into the system > but only at higher differential pressure - higher power settings and higher > altitude. There was no evidence of fuel leak. The softer aftermarket > gasket compensated for the minor flaws in the mating surfaces of the float > bowls. > > We spent two days and maybe USD500 solving a problem which was turned out to > be a 5c gasket. > > Will > Bogota > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of europapa > Sent: 21 May, 2012 15:51 > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body > mountings > > > Hi, > > in the mailing list I can see all of your replies but not here in the forum > [Question] . > I am very happy to see so many help by real experts. > Thank you so much. > Karl, Craig, Bob, Pete,Terry, John and all the others, thank you so much. > I am now thinking too that the added heat is not an issue. > Today I had my prof-check or how do you call it? > At full throttle and even with my not so light flight inspector the power > produced by my 912s at high rpm / full throttle was good. > But when reducing the rpm / throttle the engine became rough like an old > diesel engine. > I am rather confused. > Now I have removed the carbs and will overhaul them. > If that will not bee the answer I will totally remove the carb heaters to > see if that will solve the problem. > If there will still no cure ......... dose anybody wants to buy a very nice > Europa Trigear...... ( no way! ;-) ). > More information later, I am really tiered after this long and exciting day. > > CU > > Juergen > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373508#373508 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:12:33 PM PST US > From: "Bud Yerly" > Subject: Re: Europa-List: for interest - float bowl gaskets > > William and all Rotax / Jabiru owners: > > At Custom Flight we are having the same problem with the new carb kits. > Jim Glover had his plane in for major repairs and upgrades. The engine > sat a while (six months) and we refurbished the carbs with new > everything for Jim since the carbs had 300 hours on them. We have done > this numerous times without distress or difficult tuning. The engine at > altitude began missing. At low boost below 27 inches or low manifold > pressures under boost, the engine ran great, but when the boost came up > to 34 inches, going through 6000 ft., the engine went out of tune. We > couldn't fix it so we had Jim fly down to Lockwood to have them have a > go at it. They couldn't fix it either after new carb bowls, complete > teardown and rebuild again. In desperation, Lockwood put two new carbs > on the engine, tuned it up and it is back to normal at great cost and > time for the mechanics and owner. > > Now suddenly we are having a rash of 914 turbo leaks around the floats. > N419PL and 12AY have had leaks as have Bob, William and others. A > turbocharged engine must have proper seals on the bowls and compensator > for sure to operate properly. Take this as some hard learned advice:: > > First, do not overtorque the float bowls to seal a leak on the 914, as > the bowls bend and distort and they are $140 each. > > Second, Bing has recommended cork gaskets for the float bowl for all the > 912/912S engines with the bail clips. This is not sold as part of the > tune-up kit (normally sold for about $50 with all the O-rings and paper > gaskets for two carbs). You have to ask for the cork gaskets > specifically. A Bing Tech at the factory told us that we should be > using the cork on all the bail clip Bing carbs. Jabiru included. On > the 914 they still recommend the paper gasket. We are not in agreement > with Bing on the 914. > > We are surprised that it seems that the paper gaskets are just not > holding up in the 914, especially if it sits a while. So we are putting > in cork gaskets now as a matter of course on the 914s to see how that > works. Of course the cork gaskets cost twice as much, but between Kerry > at Lockwood, Ed and I we are looking at the cork to solve this issue > long term for leaky bowls..... > > Regards, > Bud Yerly > Europa Tech Support. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Daniell > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:41 AM > Subject: Europa-List: for interest - float bowl gaskets > > > > > > For the record an interesting thing happened to me with my zenith > which has > an aftermarket turbo fitted. > > Above 11k full power caused vibration - I thought this was just a > normal > "fault" of the aftermarket turbo. Take off from 8500 etc all normal. > However the problem got worse and manifested itself at lower > altitudes. > > We put on a vernier to manually adjust waste-gate and the problem > showed up > at higher MP - over 34". Otherwise the engine ran normally. It felt > like > fuel starvation. > > New carb vacuum chamber diaphragms, carb balance, full fuel system > check, > fuel pressure - no change. All readings completely normal except for > the > vibration and minor power loss at higher altitudes and power settings. > > Just out of interest we changed the carb float bowl gaskets which had > been > changed recently using rotax original parts. We put in after market > softer > cork gaskets because that's what we had. This cured the problem > completely. > > The conclusion was that the float bowls had been dropped or the mating > faces > had been damaged in some very minor way allowing air to get into the > system > but only at higher differential pressure - higher power settings and > higher > altitude. There was no evidence of fuel leak. The softer aftermarket > gasket compensated for the minor flaws in the mating surfaces of the > float > bowls. > > We spent two days and maybe USD500 solving a problem which was turned > out to > be a 5c gasket. > > Will > Bogota > > -----Original Message----- > From: > owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com tronics.com> > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of europapa > Sent: 21 May, 2012 15:51 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body > mountings > > > > > Hi, > > in the mailing list I can see all of your replies but not here in the > forum > [Question] . > I am very happy to see so many help by real experts. > Thank you so much. > Karl, Craig, Bob, Pete,Terry, John and all the others, thank you so > much. > I am now thinking too that the added heat is not an issue. > Today I had my prof-check or how do you call it? > At full throttle and even with my not so light flight inspector the > power > produced by my 912s at high rpm / full throttle was good. > But when reducing the rpm / throttle the engine became rough like an > old > diesel engine. > I am rather confused. > Now I have removed the carbs and will overhaul them. > If that will not bee the answer I will totally remove the carb heaters > to > see if that will solve the problem. > If there will still no cure ......... dose anybody wants to buy a very > nice > Europa Trigear...... ( no way! ;-) ). > More information later, I am really tiered after this long and > exciting day. > > CU > > Juergen > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373508#373508 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373508#373508> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List avigator?Europa-List> > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:47:23 PM PST US > From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: for interest - float bowl gaskets > > At the Rotax classes I've attended at Rotech in Canada, Rob and Mike have be > en recommending the cork gaskets for years now. > Kevin > > On May 22, 2012, at 5:11 PM, "Bud Yerly" wrote: > >> William and all Rotax / Jabiru owners: >> >> At Custom Flight we are having the same problem with the new carb kits. J > im Glover had his plane in for major repairs and upgrades. The engine sat a > while (six months) and we refurbished the carbs with new everything for Jim > since the carbs had 300 hours on them. We have done this numerous times wi > thout distress or difficult tuning. The engine at altitude began missing. A > t low boost below 27 inches or low manifold pressures under boost, the engin > e ran great, but when the boost came up to 34 inches, going through 6000 ft. > , the engine went out of tune. We couldn't fix it so we had Jim fly down to > Lockwood to have them have a go at it. They couldn't fix it either after n > ew carb bowls, complete teardown and rebuild again. In desperation, Lockwoo > d put two new carbs on the engine, tuned it up and it is back to normal at g > reat cost and time for the mechanics and owner. >> >> Now suddenly we are having a rash of 914 turbo leaks around the floats. N > 419PL and 12AY have had leaks as have Bob, William and others. A turbochar > ged engine must have proper seals on the bowls and compensator for sure to o > perate properly. Take this as some hard learned advice:: >> >> First, do not overtorque the float bowls to seal a leak on the 914, as the > bowls bend and distort and they are $140 each. >> >> Second, Bing has recommended cork gaskets for the float bowl for all the 9 > 12/912S engines with the bail clips. This is not sold as part of the tune-u > p kit (normally sold for about $50 with all the O-rings and paper gaskets fo > r two carbs). You have to ask for the cork gaskets specifically. A Bing Te > ch at the factory told us that we should be using the cork on all the bail c > lip Bing carbs. Jabiru included. On the 914 they still recommend the paper > gasket. We are not in agreement with Bing on the 914. >> >> We are surprised that it seems that the paper gaskets are just not holding > up in the 914, especially if it sits a while. So we are putting in cork ga > skets now as a matter of course on the 914s to see how that works. Of cours > e the cork gaskets cost twice as much, but between Kerry at Lockwood, Ed and > I we are looking at the cork to solve this issue long term for leaky bowls. > .... >> >> Regards, >> Bud Yerly >> Europa Tech Support. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: William Daniell >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:41 AM >> Subject: Europa-List: for interest - float bowl gaskets >> > >> >> For the record an interesting thing happened to me with my zenith which ha > s >> an aftermarket turbo fitted. >> >> Above 11k full power caused vibration - I thought this was just a normal >> "fault" of the aftermarket turbo. Take off from 8500 etc all normal. >> However the problem got worse and manifested itself at lower altitudes. >> >> We put on a vernier to manually adjust waste-gate and the problem showed u > p >> at higher MP - over 34". Otherwise the engine ran normally. It felt like > >> fuel starvation. >> >> New carb vacuum chamber diaphragms, carb balance, full fuel system check, >> fuel pressure - no change. All readings completely normal except for the > >> vibration and minor power loss at higher altitudes and power settings. >> >> Just out of interest we changed the carb float bowl gaskets which had been > >> changed recently using rotax original parts. We put in after market softe > r >> cork gaskets because that's what we had. This cured the problem completel > y. >> >> The conclusion was that the float bowls had been dropped or the mating fac > es >> had been damaged in some very minor way allowing air to get into the syste > m >> but only at higher differential pressure - higher power settings and highe > r >> altitude. There was no evidence of fuel leak. The softer aftermarket >> gasket compensated for the minor flaws in the mating surfaces of the float > >> bowls. >> >> We spent two days and maybe USD500 solving a problem which was turned out t > o >> be a 5c gasket. >> >> Will >> Bogota >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of europapa >> Sent: 21 May, 2012 15:51 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lack of power with water heated carb body >> mountings >> >> >> Hi, >> >> in the mailing list I can see all of your replies but not here in the foru > m >> [Question] . >> I am very happy to see so many help by real experts. >> Thank you so much. >> Karl, Craig, Bob, Pete,Terry, John and all the others, thank you so much. >> I am now thinking too that the added heat is not an issue. >> Today I had my prof-check or how do you call it? >> At full throttle and even with my not so light flight inspector the power >> produced by my 912s at high rpm / full throttle was good. >> But when reducing the rpm / throttle the engine became rough like an old >> diesel engine. >> I am rather confused. >> Now I have removed the carbs and will overhaul them. >> If that will not bee the answer I will totally remove the carb heaters to >> see if that will solve the problem. >> If there will still no cure ......... dose anybody wants to buy a very nic > e >> Europa Trigear...... ( no way! ;-) ). >> More information later, I am really tiered after this long and exciting da > y. >> >> CU >> >> Juergen >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373508#373508 >> >> >> http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics. > com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m > atronics.com/c=============== >> >> >> >> >> > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: ELT current demand From: "rampil" ELT devices are usually run by their own internal battery, not ship power -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373669#373669 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets From: "rampil" Unless something has changed, the binder in traditional cork gaskets will dissolved when exposed to ethanol in gasoline. Trade one problem for another! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373671#373671 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:25 PM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets Here it is illegal to use fuel containing alcohol in aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: for interest - float bowl gaskets Unless something has changed, the binder in traditional cork gaskets will dissolved when exposed to ethanol in gasoline. Trade one problem for another! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373671#373671 ----- No virus found in this message. 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