Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:24 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_Europa_for_repair_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?on_AFORS? (Carl Pattinson)
2. 01:59 AM - Europa for repair on AFORS (Gerry Holland)
3. 03:14 AM - Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (stephen vestuti)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
5. 08:25 AM - Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (Fred Klein)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (Fred Klein)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (houlihan)
8. 09:40 AM - Re: Europa for repair on AFORS (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
9. 05:21 PM - Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Andrew Sarangan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_Europa_for_repair_?= |
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?on_AFORS?
X-mailer: iolo System Shield 10.7.6.60
The =93aircraft=94 looks like a complete disaster area and the idea that the
fuselage can safely be pieced together is pure fantasy. I can=92t see any
inspector in his right mind signing this off unless the whole area was paint
stripped and checked for further stress damage. The fuselage is a =93write
off=94 ' you would need to purchase a new fuselage, though it might be
possible to save the cockpit module.
One thing not mentioned to date is one of the wings appears to have
significant leading edge damage ' if it=92s a classic Europa will be very
difficult (though not impossible) to repair. The wing profile on the Europa
is critical (performance wise) so if the repair is not perfect it will fly
like a brick (and probably stall/ spin like a kamikazee !)
The engine is a Subaru which I if I am not mistaken was the reason it the
aircraft crashed in the first place ' the early ones were unreliable !
Is it worth =A36,500 in parts ' questionable.
Unless you are looking for a project that will never fly.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 02 June 2012 04:09
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa for repair on AFORS
When I read "just needs fibreglass repairs" what I was picturing was an
airframe with a few dings, damaged control surfaces, broken canopy and prop.
But the website photo shows the firewall and the tail cone completely
separated from the fuselage. It looks far more serious than "just needs
fibreglass repairs".
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Gerry Holland
<gholland@content-stream.co.uk> wrote:
Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.
There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:
http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview
<http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0>
&adid=15525&imid=0
Part of the write up quotes:
Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly,
lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts.
Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new
Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.
I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasis
that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a
big task.
Comments please.
Regards
Gerry
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Europa for repair on AFORS |
Carl Hi!
Your observations on the Europa 'wreck' were eloquently put and match my own.
I thought I would air the subject as someone less expert on Europa building maybe
drawn into thinking this is doable.
Both of us have built a Europa and based on that experience I think, like you,
this advert lacks realistic direction and fact.
The occurrence leading to this crash was the alternator belt burning up after alternator
seized.
Details: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Europa,%20G-BWCV%2003-07.pdf
A Subaru Engine as per this Aircraft is worth only 1000 max.
The rest of aircraft is of dubious serviceability due to crash damage and being
stored over 5 years since incident.
IMHO. Buyer beware!
Regards
Gerry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa for repair on AFORS |
Hi Gerry,
nice to see you may be building another Europa. Hope you manage to
find somthing.
Incidentally, that's been for sale for a really long time - it's obviously not
worth what he's asking,
Steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374520#374520
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa for repair on AFORS |
Gerry,
Thanks for the link regarding this forced landing. Very interesting!
Kevin
On Jun 2, 2012, at 1:58 AM, Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Carl Hi!
> Your observations on the Europa 'wreck' were eloquently put and match my own.
> I thought I would air the subject as someone less expert on Europa building maybe
drawn into thinking this is doable.
> Both of us have built a Europa and based on that experience I think, like you,
this advert lacks realistic direction and fact.
> The occurrence leading to this crash was the alternator belt burning up after
alternator seized.
> Details: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Europa,%20G-BWCV%2003-07.pdf
>
> A Subaru Engine as per this Aircraft is worth only 1000 max.
> The rest of aircraft is of dubious serviceability due to crash damage and being
stored over 5 years since incident.
> IMHO. Buyer beware!
> Regards
> Gerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa for repair on AFORS |
...the author of the text for the advert deserves a special award for
creativity and imagination...
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa for repair on AFORS |
...the author of the text for the advert deserves a special award for
creativity and imagination...
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa-List: Europa for repair on AFORS |
Hi Carl.
I agree with all you say except why do you pick out a Classic wing as being
very difficult to repair.
In my very humble opinion damage to a foam core structure like the classic
wing should be easier to part replace or repair than say a monocoque
structure like the XS wing.
As I say this comment is only based on my experience building a classic
aircraft so I am not an expert in this area.
Tim Houlihan
On 2 June 2012 09:23, Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The =93aircraft=94 looks like a complete disaster area and the idea that
the
> fuselage can safely be pieced together is pure fantasy. I can=92t see an
y
> inspector in his right mind signing this off unless the whole area was
> paint stripped and checked for further stress damage. The fuselage is a
> =93write off=94 ' you would need to purchase a new fuselage, though it
might be
> possible to save the cockpit module.****
>
> ** **
>
> One thing not mentioned to date is one of the wings appears to have
> significant leading edge damage ' if it=92s a classic Europa will be ve
ry
> difficult (though not impossible) to repair. The wing profile on the Euro
pa
> is critical (performance wise) so if the repair is not perfect it will fl
y
> like a brick (and probably stall/ spin like a kamikazee !)****
>
> ** **
>
> The engine is a Subaru which I if I am not mistaken was the reason it the
> aircraft crashed in the first place ' the early ones were unreliable !*
***
>
> ** **
>
> Is it worth =A36,500 in parts ' questionable.****
>
> ** **
>
> Unless you are looking for a project that will never fly.****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Sarangan
> *Sent:* 02 June 2012 04:09
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Europa for repair on AFORS****
>
> ** **
>
> When I read "just needs fibreglass repairs" what I was picturing was an
> airframe with a few dings, damaged control surfaces, broken canopy and
> prop. But the website photo shows the firewall and the tail cone complete
ly
> separated from the fuselage. It looks far more serious than "just needs
> fibreglass repairs".
>
> ****
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Gerry Holland <
> gholland@content-stream.co.uk> wrote:****
>
> Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.**
*
> *
>
> There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:****
>
> http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0****
>
> ** **
>
> Part of the write up quotes:****
>
> *Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick
> assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts.***
*
> *
>
> Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new
> Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasi
s
> that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a
> big task.****
>
> Comments please.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> Gerry****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List*
>
> *tp://forums..matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contributi=========*
>
> * *
>
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> Scanned by *iolo System Shield=AE*
> http://www.iolo.com ****
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> No infections found in this outgoing message
> Scanned by *iolo System Shield=AE*
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Europa for repair on AFORS |
Hi Gerry
Just a note on the forced landing. Anyone who is trying to fly with a
prop that has the ability to truly free windmill better be prepared to
count on performance comparable to having a drogue chute in trail with a
dead engine. If I were to have a sub setup like this, practice with a
stopped (not idling engine) engine would be on my agenda. I met a piper
Archer II who walked with a severe limp because one leg was several
inches shorter than the other. He was giving a very capable instrument
student a last lesson before he took his instrument check ride. Perfect
day, long runway, 10MPH right down the runway, clear and very wide
runway. several hundred feet over the runway with plenty left, the engine
quit. The next thing they both knew they were in a mass of twisted metal
on the grass off to the side of the runway? Everyone was having a very
hard time figuring out what happened? It ends up the catastrophic engine
failure was a broken crankshaft just aft of the main bearing for the
prop. This allowed the prop to really spin up without any frictional and
other drag from the motor. DRAG CITY! This is not something one could
easy practice. They remembered having the nose pointed down a lot further
than normal but things went bad anyway. Just to send this message home,
the next time you have access to a pinwheel, stick it out car window with
30MPH airspeed and prevent from turning and note drag, then let it spin
up WOW. Stuff happens, but if you have this one built in you can somewhat
prepare. I don't know if anyone still offers a power plant with free
windmilling prop?
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
I need to decide which servos to install for the altitude (Mod 75) and wing
leveling (Mod 76) autopilots. I like the simplicity of the Trutrak panel
design, but the Trio's servos appear to be better. Anyone have thoughts?
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