Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (G-IANI)
2. 02:48 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 07:17 AM - Show us your panels ! (stephen vestuti)
4. 07:17 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (Bud Yerly)
5. 07:19 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Andrew Sarangan)
6. 08:29 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Bud Yerly)
7. 09:50 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (Robert Borger)
8. 10:08 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (Fred Klein)
9. 10:43 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (R Holder)
10. 11:22 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
11. 11:45 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Rowland Carson)
12. 12:23 PM - Re: Show us your panels ! (R Holder)
13. 02:58 PM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (G-IANI)
14. 03:56 PM - GRT avionics (William Daniell)
15. 05:06 PM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
16. 07:02 PM - Re: GRT avionics (Robert Borger)
Message 1
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Subject: | Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Andrew
Why do you say the Trio servo looks better?
The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a digital
stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The fact that
Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit (although they
are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
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Subject: | Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Ian=0AI agree with you. The Navaid servo adopted by Trio has nylon gears,
-soldered cable joints sheet aluminium chassis-=0Aand looks very "steam
age" to me. It first came on the market about 25 years ago.=0AGraham=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld.
com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 3 June 2012, 10:04=0A
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?=0A =0A=0AAndrew=0A-
=0AWhy do you say the Trio servo looks better?=0A-=0AThe Trio servo is of
the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a digital stepper motor with
far less to go wrong, wear out or fail.- The fact that Garmin, Dynon and
others have decided to use the same unit (although they are not electricall
y interchangeable) say a lot.=0A-=0A-=0AIan Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear,
300hours=0AEuropa Club Mods Specialist=0Ae-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com=0A-
===============
Message 3
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Subject: | Show us your panels ! |
Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has got me wanting
to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the instruments !
Steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374578#374578
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Bruno,
Nice to here from you. I will send you my test report.
I have a manufacturer which supplies me with clear vinyl contoured VGs
that are superb and are arced on the bottom for a good fit. They glue
on with some supplied gel glue and are very easy to install, allow some
repositioning and really stick once cured without damaging the paint. I
made paper templates for ease of alignment. I also experimented with
different positions, number and placement which is only in the flight
test data.
The controllability at low speed (clean at 45 KCAS and dirty at 40) with
a well rigged plane is superb. The cost is very low in comparison to
the aftermarket VGs available and the speed reduction at cruise is not
onerous (5 knots fixed pitch and 10 for a very clean constant speed
airplane.) I developed them to meet the Light Sport Criteria here in
the US.
If I were flying a Classic especially into a short field, I would use
them, as the approach speed at 55 KIAS is quite stable and forgiving,
allowing for a more confident stable approach to a landing which is
necessary in the mono. Although the mono takeoff roll would not be
improved due to the deck angle on the ground, the confidence of a easily
controlled mono on final is what makes for a good consistent landing.
One caution though is that the VGs give such good response and feel that
one may allow his airspeed to bleed well below normal or safe region as
the plane feels great, but is sinking like a rock, especially in the
steep final turn. When I had a couple clients fly with the VGs, I
called it falling with style (Like the movie line) as he allowed his
airspeed in the final turn to drop to 40 and he was in full aileron
control and didn't notice the sink. Of course when he tried to arrest
the sink, the trouble began as he was into the stall. This is common
with aircraft equipped with slats, slots or VGs. So mind the airspeed
otherwise the client will be below stall in a sinking low AOA turn and
get into trouble...
I am tied up with two planes in flight test and some poor radio/intercom
performance on one plane (I didn't wire the radios and now must look for
the ailment) and of course flight testing with the owner on his new
systems, checking for setup changes, programming preferences, etc.
When I get into the shop on Monday, I will pull the flight test out of
the archive and send it too you via email. Otherwise I have a typed up
mod with the final setup and I do have the kits on the shelf.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: UVTREITH<mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:03 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Vortex Generators
Hi Family,
An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on
his wings Vortex Generators?
Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of
this?
Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings?
Some wise and technical information would be helpful - thank you.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Thanks for that insight. I was just going by the website description.
However, Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support
compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the servo and
will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this won't work. I am
a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified somehow. But I don't
have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a different plan. Does anyone
have thoughts on this?
On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:04 AM, G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Andrew****
>
> ** **
>
> Why do you say the Trio servo looks better?****
>
> ** **
>
> The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a
> digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The
> fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit
> (although they are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
> Europa Club Mods Specialist
> e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Andrew,
Allied Electrical has 90 degree D sub connectors available which reduces
the TruTrak electrical connector overall length. I use these on the
Dynon and other long EFIS types and radios if there is a clearance
problem. The length is cut about one inch. In the mono, the ply seat
support normally is cut out for the connector and a hole cover could be
made and or a bump manufactured in the ply/glass to make room for the
connector and still clear the wheel and brake during retraction in the
mono. After all, we had to move the rudder cables in to clear and I am
sure your TT roll servo will clear with a 90 degree connector.
At my shop we mount the roll servo in the aircraft with the arm attached
to the stick. The servo mounts to a aluminum plate attached to the
inboard access hole inboard of the passenger stick. A metal bracket is
manufactured for attachment to the current stick yolk. Clean neat and
simple install, but you must make a kick panel to cover the mechanism to
protect the control arm. I install on the passenger side, but it works
on the pilot side as well. Just a mirror image. For pitch, until this
mod came out, we attached the pitch servo to the tube behind the baggage
bay. Not optimum for maintenance but safe and doable with more work
than I'd like to admit.
As for the Mod 76 pitch mod, it is quite clever and does pose a sticky
fit. Again, as above, the photo in the Mod 76 instruction shows the
servo back of the TruTrack hard against the seat vertical support lying
on the floor with the D-sub protruding into the mono wheel well. The
wheel normally clears, if memory serves, the pilot side by some two
inches when using the 7 inch tire. This space allowed us to install the
airbrake system into the mono which also protrudes into the tunnel. By
guessing, the plywood is 1/8 inch and the hood is 1.5 inch leaving the
hood to protrude into the mono by about 1.25 inches. An alternative
mounting would be to install the servo vertically on a metal plate to
the access hole in the front of the seat using approved mounting
techniques, which would raise the connector to allow a bit more
clearance from the floor giving the mono gear frame a wider birth. Just
flip the bracket over. Also by disconnecting the arm from the shaft,
the MM3 style bearing can fit on the inside of the servo arm but your
bolt may need to be changed to a washer head 525 screw type for
clearance. This gives another 1/2 inch of clearance. Not worth the
effort in my opinion as future maintenance would be uncomfortable, but I
have done it for solving clearance issues. You will have to cover the
connector/wires in the wheel well to prevent dirt/water and the like
from damaging the electrics for sure. Please do some measuring of your
aircraft before buying as no two aircraft are exactly alike.
I have never installed a Trio but I hear good things about them, I just
like the TruTrak for the attitude style display, ball, and servo
toughness, but there are issues with electrical reliability as I have
had two units that died within the first few hours of operation due to
circuit card mounting problems during assembly at the factory. That is
a 50% failure rate in my shop. Each has been fixed and works well now.
I just could be unlucky.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
www.customflightcreations.com
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Sarangan<mailto:asarangan@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
Thanks for that insight. I was just going by the website description.
However, Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh
support compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the
servo and will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this
won't work. I am a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified
somehow. But I don't have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a
different plan. Does anyone have thoughts on this?
On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:04 AM, G-IANI
<g-iani@ntlworld.com<mailto:g-iani@ntlworld.com>> wrote:
Andrew
Why do you say the Trio servo looks better?
The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a
digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The
fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit
(although they are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com<mailto:g-iani@ntlworld.com>
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Show us your panels ! |
Steve,
FWIW:
Main panel, top row, left to right: Trim Indicator, EL Instrument Lighting control,
4 stand-by instruments; TruTrak Turn Coordinator, Altitude, Airspeed, Vertical
Speed.
Row of lights, left to right: Hi/Lo Volt Warn (Yellow), EIS Warn (Red), 2 turbo
warn lights (Orange & Red)
Just below the Volt Warn lamp is the press-to-test for the volt warn system.
Big screen is a Grand Rapids Technology Sport EFIS. To the left of the Sport is
a USB port feeding the Sport. And an On/Off switch for the Sport as required
by GRT.
Switch & Fuse panel, left to right: Master Switch (Red), A & B Ignition (Blue),
Starter (Yellow), Starter Engaged Lamp (Yellow), Fuel Boost Pump (Green), Nav
Lights (White), Strobes (White) & Instrument Lights (White). Then two rows of
circuit breakers. The breaker with the Red Ring is for the trim. There is
also a keyed switch that prevents anything working.
Recess between the panels: TCU Emergency Off Switch - Red Guard in the ON position
& a 12 volt DC outlet.
Right panel, top to bottom: Air Gizmo mount & Garmin 396, Microair 760 Radio and
Microair Transponder, GRT EIS 4000 for Rotax, UMA Differential Pressure Gage,
Controls for the Airmaster Prop.
On top of the instrument panel are GPS antennas for the GRT Sport and the 396.
Behind the iPad mount, in the corner of the shelf, is the XM Weather Antenna/Receiver
for the 396.
I have not flown with this panel yet. Still trying to get the 914 running properly
after a year of down time.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:16 AM, stephen vestuti wrote:
Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has got me wanting
to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the instruments !
Steve.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374578#374578
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Subject: | Re: Show us your panels ! |
On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:16 AM, stephen vestuti wrote:
> >
>
> Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has
> got me wanting to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the
> instruments !
Steve,
Photo below shows my effort to KIS and visually serene...still a work
in progress...instruments include the Dynon Skyview, UMA 2.25 ALT and
ASI backups, Gizmo for Garmin X96; small green screen is EMS
compatible w/ programmable ECU; space for ICOM 210 & xponder. I
extended the valence over the nav panel in an effort to enhance
visability of GPS screen; increased the size of the lip to conceal a
36" length of red LEDs for panel illumination.
Am considering mounting an iPad directly on the top of the control
stick...LOL...
Fred
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Show us your panels ! |
On 03/06/2012 15:16, stephen vestuti wrote:
> Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount
> posting has got me wanting to see more, don't forget to
> talk about some of the instruments !
This "old thing" on G-OWWW, does me, for now !
The ammeter and voltmeter sit on a sub panel which stays
in the aircraft when the panel is slid out. The space
neatly avoids the brake and throttle levers.
Richard
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Subject: | Re: Show us your panels ! |
Hi Richard
Thx. for sharing your panel with us.
Can you explain or show a shot of the other side of the red rubber band
and steel? I imagine it clamps somehow onto the rudder pedals.
Another question, what is the T handle for by the choke? If not a parking
brake can you explain your plumbing and routing of air.
Last question, it looks like you have some kind of paint protector for
the door shoot bolt hole (port front). How does it work, what did you
use?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
On 3 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support
compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the servo and
will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this won't work. I
am a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified somehow. But I
don't have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a different plan.
Does anyone have thoughts on this?
Andrew - here attached is a picture of my approach to the issue of the
protruding D-type connector on the TruTrak servo for my wing-leveller
installation. It's a short length of aluminium angle with holes made to
suit male & female 9-way connectors. The interconnexions are made with
solid copper wire (can't remember what gauge fitted the solder buckets
nicely) and I will add an insulating cover before installation.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Show us your panels ! |
On 03/06/2012 19:21, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
> Thx. for sharing your panel with us.
> Can you explain or show a shot of the other side of the
> red rubber band and steel? I imagine it clamps somehow
> onto the rudder pedals.
The red rubber band and steel is the control lock. The
other side goes to a "T-piece" that is goes into the
rudder pedals. It actually slides into the hollow pedals
(from between them) The red rubber bands are there as the
cylindrical shape isn't quite aligned with the top of the
stick so helps to keep it in place. UK residents will
recognise the red rubber bands as Royal Mail issue :-)
(Previously enjoyed)
> Another question, what is the T handle for by the
> choke? If not a parking brake can you explain your
> plumbing and routing of air.
The T handle is for my cowl flap which is behind the
radiators - blanking off the space when it is cold. When
pulled the shaft is marked with green and yellow and red
bands.
Parking brake is in front of the brake levers.
> Last question, it looks like you have some kind of
> paint protector for the door shoot bolt hole (port
> front). How does it work, what did you use?
It is a piece of something (I didn't build that bit) maybe
SS, which provides an accurate hole for the shoot bolt and
protects the surrounding fibreglass.
HTH
Richard, ho would really like to be involved designing and
building panels following my logic.
PS, my logic says that every electrical joint is soldered
as crimping is a) a poor mechanical connection and b) a
poor electrical connection :-) Soldering is a very good
mechanical and electrical connection; I just make sure
there is no wicking of solder up the cable by minimising
the amount of solder and holding the joint the right way
when soldering.
[Stands back and waits for incoming flak]
Message 13
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Subject: | Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Andrew
I added the simplistic statement "the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the
thigh support" when I wrote the Mod because I did not have a either a Mono
to work with or the time to develop it. Here in the UK I have to work with
a demanding regulator (the LAA) and would have had to demonstrate that what
I was writing up really does work well.
What you have not seen yet is that Mod 76 issue 3. This adds the Dynon to
the approved list. The Dynon servos will fit easily as the electronics are
inside the gear box (not in a separate box on the side). I finished it
months ago at the request of the LAA (as various builders wanted the Dynon)
but Europa have yet to get round to publishing it.
Bud's advice is good. There are various ways which the altitude hold can be
achieved. Bud has referred to "attached the pitch servo to the tube behind
the baggage bay". It was decided that this was not really suitable for all
aircraft but it has been approved as an individual Mod on one aircraft (and
could be used again). I did the drawings for this mod which are attached.
As you will see the servo used was a Trio but any one would fit as well. If
this is of interest please contact me direct if you want more details.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 14
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|
Gentlemen
Has anyone used Grand Rapids kit and if so what was the experience?
Yours
Will
Bogota
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? |
Hi All,
I installed the TruTrak under the passenger seat in my mono and it all fit w
ithout any problem. I did not need to modify the space at all.
I cut an access hole in the seat bottom and made a cover for the front exist
ing access hole.
I don't yet have a pitch servo, but Ian's drawing sure looks good!
This autopilot coupled with the GPS has me totally spoiled.
Kevin
On Jun 3, 2012, at 2:54 PM, "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Andrew
>
> I added the simplistic statement =9Cthe Trutrak servo won't fit insi
de the thigh support=9D when I wrote the Mod because I did not have a e
ither a Mono to work with or the time to develop it. Here in the UK I have t
o work with a demanding regulator (the LAA) and would have had to demonstrat
e that what I was writing up really does work well.
>
> What you have not seen yet is that Mod 76 issue 3. This adds the Dynon to
the approved list. The Dynon servos will fit easily as the electronics are
inside the gear box (not in a separate box on the side). I finished it mo
nths ago at the request of the LAA (as various builders wanted the Dynon) bu
t Europa have yet to get round to publishing it.
>
> Bud=99s advice is good. There are various ways which the altitude h
old can be achieved. Bud has referred to =9Cattached the pitch servo t
o the tube behind the baggage bay=9D. It was decided that this was no
t really suitable for all aircraft but it has been approved as an individua
l Mod on one aircraft (and could be used again). I did the drawings for thi
s mod which are attached. As you will see the servo used was a Trio but any
one would fit as well. If this is of interest please contact me direct if y
ou want more details.
>
>
> Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
> Europa Club Mods Specialist
> e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
>
>
> <THAutopilot (2).pdf>
> <THAutopilot(1).pdf>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: GRT avionics |
Will,
The GRT EIS 4000 works very well and was surprisingly easy to install. Not totally
flawless, but close.
The GRT Sport EFIS is more complicated and I'm still working out some wiring issues
with the interface to the EIS 4000. But first I must get the 914 running
right before I can tackle the wiring.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Jun 3, 2012, at 5:55 PM, William Daniell wrote:
Gentlemen
Has anyone used Grand Rapids kit and if so what was the experience?
Yours
Will
Bogota
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