Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 06/03/12


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:05 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (G-IANI)
     2. 02:48 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     3. 07:17 AM - Show us your panels ! (stephen vestuti)
     4. 07:17 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (Bud Yerly)
     5. 07:19 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Andrew Sarangan)
     6. 08:29 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Bud Yerly)
     7. 09:50 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (Robert Borger)
     8. 10:08 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (Fred Klein)
     9. 10:43 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (R Holder)
    10. 11:22 AM - Re: Show us your panels ! (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    11. 11:45 AM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (Rowland Carson)
    12. 12:23 PM - Re: Show us your panels ! (R Holder)
    13. 02:58 PM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (G-IANI)
    14. 03:56 PM - GRT avionics (William Daniell)
    15. 05:06 PM - Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
    16. 07:02 PM - Re: GRT avionics (Robert Borger)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:05:53 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Andrew Why do you say the Trio servo looks better? The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit (although they are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:48:41 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Ian=0AI agree with you. The Navaid servo adopted by Trio has nylon gears, -soldered cable joints sheet aluminium chassis-=0Aand looks very "steam age" to me. It first came on the market about 25 years ago.=0AGraham=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld. com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 3 June 2012, 10:04=0A Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?=0A =0A=0AAndrew=0A- =0AWhy do you say the Trio servo looks better?=0A-=0AThe Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail.- The fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit (although they are not electricall y interchangeable) say a lot.=0A-=0A-=0AIan Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours=0AEuropa Club Mods Specialist=0Ae-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com=0A- ===============


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:17:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Show us your panels !
    From: "stephen vestuti" <s.vestuti@gmail.com>
    Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has got me wanting to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the instruments ! Steve. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374578#374578


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:17:50 AM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
    Bruno, Nice to here from you. I will send you my test report. I have a manufacturer which supplies me with clear vinyl contoured VGs that are superb and are arced on the bottom for a good fit. They glue on with some supplied gel glue and are very easy to install, allow some repositioning and really stick once cured without damaging the paint. I made paper templates for ease of alignment. I also experimented with different positions, number and placement which is only in the flight test data. The controllability at low speed (clean at 45 KCAS and dirty at 40) with a well rigged plane is superb. The cost is very low in comparison to the aftermarket VGs available and the speed reduction at cruise is not onerous (5 knots fixed pitch and 10 for a very clean constant speed airplane.) I developed them to meet the Light Sport Criteria here in the US. If I were flying a Classic especially into a short field, I would use them, as the approach speed at 55 KIAS is quite stable and forgiving, allowing for a more confident stable approach to a landing which is necessary in the mono. Although the mono takeoff roll would not be improved due to the deck angle on the ground, the confidence of a easily controlled mono on final is what makes for a good consistent landing. One caution though is that the VGs give such good response and feel that one may allow his airspeed to bleed well below normal or safe region as the plane feels great, but is sinking like a rock, especially in the steep final turn. When I had a couple clients fly with the VGs, I called it falling with style (Like the movie line) as he allowed his airspeed in the final turn to drop to 40 and he was in full aileron control and didn't notice the sink. Of course when he tried to arrest the sink, the trouble began as he was into the stall. This is common with aircraft equipped with slats, slots or VGs. So mind the airspeed otherwise the client will be below stall in a sinking low AOA turn and get into trouble... I am tied up with two planes in flight test and some poor radio/intercom performance on one plane (I didn't wire the radios and now must look for the ailment) and of course flight testing with the owner on his new systems, checking for setup changes, programming preferences, etc. When I get into the shop on Monday, I will pull the flight test out of the archive and send it too you via email. Otherwise I have a typed up mod with the final setup and I do have the kits on the shelf. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: UVTREITH<mailto:uvtreith@t-online.de> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:03 PM Subject: Europa-List: Vortex Generators Hi Family, An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on his wings Vortex Generators? Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of this? Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings? Some wise and technical information would be helpful - thank you. Best Regards, Bruno Reith http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:19:01 AM PST US
    From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Thanks for that insight. I was just going by the website description. However, Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the servo and will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this won't work. I am a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified somehow. But I don't have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a different plan. Does anyone have thoughts on this? On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:04 AM, G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Andrew**** > > ** ** > > Why do you say the Trio servo looks better?**** > > ** ** > > The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a > digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The > fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit > (although they are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > * > > * > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:29:55 AM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Andrew, Allied Electrical has 90 degree D sub connectors available which reduces the TruTrak electrical connector overall length. I use these on the Dynon and other long EFIS types and radios if there is a clearance problem. The length is cut about one inch. In the mono, the ply seat support normally is cut out for the connector and a hole cover could be made and or a bump manufactured in the ply/glass to make room for the connector and still clear the wheel and brake during retraction in the mono. After all, we had to move the rudder cables in to clear and I am sure your TT roll servo will clear with a 90 degree connector. At my shop we mount the roll servo in the aircraft with the arm attached to the stick. The servo mounts to a aluminum plate attached to the inboard access hole inboard of the passenger stick. A metal bracket is manufactured for attachment to the current stick yolk. Clean neat and simple install, but you must make a kick panel to cover the mechanism to protect the control arm. I install on the passenger side, but it works on the pilot side as well. Just a mirror image. For pitch, until this mod came out, we attached the pitch servo to the tube behind the baggage bay. Not optimum for maintenance but safe and doable with more work than I'd like to admit. As for the Mod 76 pitch mod, it is quite clever and does pose a sticky fit. Again, as above, the photo in the Mod 76 instruction shows the servo back of the TruTrack hard against the seat vertical support lying on the floor with the D-sub protruding into the mono wheel well. The wheel normally clears, if memory serves, the pilot side by some two inches when using the 7 inch tire. This space allowed us to install the airbrake system into the mono which also protrudes into the tunnel. By guessing, the plywood is 1/8 inch and the hood is 1.5 inch leaving the hood to protrude into the mono by about 1.25 inches. An alternative mounting would be to install the servo vertically on a metal plate to the access hole in the front of the seat using approved mounting techniques, which would raise the connector to allow a bit more clearance from the floor giving the mono gear frame a wider birth. Just flip the bracket over. Also by disconnecting the arm from the shaft, the MM3 style bearing can fit on the inside of the servo arm but your bolt may need to be changed to a washer head 525 screw type for clearance. This gives another 1/2 inch of clearance. Not worth the effort in my opinion as future maintenance would be uncomfortable, but I have done it for solving clearance issues. You will have to cover the connector/wires in the wheel well to prevent dirt/water and the like from damaging the electrics for sure. Please do some measuring of your aircraft before buying as no two aircraft are exactly alike. I have never installed a Trio but I hear good things about them, I just like the TruTrak for the attitude style display, ball, and servo toughness, but there are issues with electrical reliability as I have had two units that died within the first few hours of operation due to circuit card mounting problems during assembly at the factory. That is a 50% failure rate in my shop. Each has been fixed and works well now. I just could be unlucky. Regards, Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations, Inc. www.customflightcreations.com (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Sarangan<mailto:asarangan@gmail.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot? Thanks for that insight. I was just going by the website description. However, Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the servo and will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this won't work. I am a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified somehow. But I don't have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a different plan. Does anyone have thoughts on this? On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:04 AM, G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld.com<mailto:g-iani@ntlworld.com>> wrote: Andrew Why do you say the Trio servo looks better? The Trio servo is of the old analogue design while the TruTrak is a digital stepper motor with far less to go wrong, wear out or fail. The fact that Garmin, Dynon and others have decided to use the same unit (although they are not electrically interchangeable) say a lot. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com<mailto:g-iani@ntlworld.com> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:50:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Show us your panels !
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Steve, FWIW: Main panel, top row, left to right: Trim Indicator, EL Instrument Lighting control, 4 stand-by instruments; TruTrak Turn Coordinator, Altitude, Airspeed, Vertical Speed. Row of lights, left to right: Hi/Lo Volt Warn (Yellow), EIS Warn (Red), 2 turbo warn lights (Orange & Red) Just below the Volt Warn lamp is the press-to-test for the volt warn system. Big screen is a Grand Rapids Technology Sport EFIS. To the left of the Sport is a USB port feeding the Sport. And an On/Off switch for the Sport as required by GRT. Switch & Fuse panel, left to right: Master Switch (Red), A & B Ignition (Blue), Starter (Yellow), Starter Engaged Lamp (Yellow), Fuel Boost Pump (Green), Nav Lights (White), Strobes (White) & Instrument Lights (White). Then two rows of circuit breakers. The breaker with the Red Ring is for the trim. There is also a keyed switch that prevents anything working. Recess between the panels: TCU Emergency Off Switch - Red Guard in the ON position & a 12 volt DC outlet. Right panel, top to bottom: Air Gizmo mount & Garmin 396, Microair 760 Radio and Microair Transponder, GRT EIS 4000 for Rotax, UMA Differential Pressure Gage, Controls for the Airmaster Prop. On top of the instrument panel are GPS antennas for the GRT Sport and the 396. Behind the iPad mount, in the corner of the shelf, is the XM Weather Antenna/Receiver for the 396. I have not flown with this panel yet. Still trying to get the 914 running properly after a year of down time. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:16 AM, stephen vestuti wrote: Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has got me wanting to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the instruments ! Steve. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374578#374578


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:08:10 AM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: Show us your panels !
    On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:16 AM, stephen vestuti wrote: > > > > Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount posting has > got me wanting to see more, don't forget to talk about some of the > instruments ! Steve, Photo below shows my effort to KIS and visually serene...still a work in progress...instruments include the Dynon Skyview, UMA 2.25 ALT and ASI backups, Gizmo for Garmin X96; small green screen is EMS compatible w/ programmable ECU; space for ICOM 210 & xponder. I extended the valence over the nav panel in an effort to enhance visability of GPS screen; increased the size of the lip to conceal a 36" length of red LEDs for panel illumination. Am considering mounting an iPad directly on the top of the control stick...LOL... Fred


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:43:03 AM PST US
    From: R Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Show us your panels !
    On 03/06/2012 15:16, stephen vestuti wrote: > Come on , lets see some of your panels, the iPad mount > posting has got me wanting to see more, don't forget to > talk about some of the instruments ! This "old thing" on G-OWWW, does me, for now ! The ammeter and voltmeter sit on a sub panel which stays in the aircraft when the panel is slid out. The space neatly avoids the brake and throttle levers. Richard


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:22:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Show us your panels !
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Richard Thx. for sharing your panel with us. Can you explain or show a shot of the other side of the red rubber band and steel? I imagine it clamps somehow onto the rudder pedals. Another question, what is the T handle for by the choke? If not a parking brake can you explain your plumbing and routing of air. Last question, it looks like you have some kind of paint protector for the door shoot bolt hole (port front). How does it work, what did you use? Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:45:56 AM PST US
    From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    On 3 Jun 2012, at 15:18, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > Mod 76 says the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support compartment because the D-type connector is at the back of the servo and will stick out into the tunnel. So for the monowheel this won't work. I am a bit surprised that the connector cannot be modified somehow. But I don't have a Trutrak servo on hand to come up with a different plan. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Andrew - here attached is a picture of my approach to the issue of the protruding D-type connector on the TruTrak servo for my wing-leveller installation. It's a short length of aluminium angle with holes made to suit male & female 9-way connectors. The interconnexions are made with solid copper wire (can't remember what gauge fitted the solder buckets nicely) and I will add an insulating cover before installation. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:23:02 PM PST US
    From: R Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Show us your panels !
    On 03/06/2012 19:21, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Thx. for sharing your panel with us. > Can you explain or show a shot of the other side of the > red rubber band and steel? I imagine it clamps somehow > onto the rudder pedals. The red rubber band and steel is the control lock. The other side goes to a "T-piece" that is goes into the rudder pedals. It actually slides into the hollow pedals (from between them) The red rubber bands are there as the cylindrical shape isn't quite aligned with the top of the stick so helps to keep it in place. UK residents will recognise the red rubber bands as Royal Mail issue :-) (Previously enjoyed) > Another question, what is the T handle for by the > choke? If not a parking brake can you explain your > plumbing and routing of air. The T handle is for my cowl flap which is behind the radiators - blanking off the space when it is cold. When pulled the shaft is marked with green and yellow and red bands. Parking brake is in front of the brake levers. > Last question, it looks like you have some kind of > paint protector for the door shoot bolt hole (port > front). How does it work, what did you use? It is a piece of something (I didn't build that bit) maybe SS, which provides an accurate hole for the shoot bolt and protects the surrounding fibreglass. HTH Richard, ho would really like to be involved designing and building panels following my logic. PS, my logic says that every electrical joint is soldered as crimping is a) a poor mechanical connection and b) a poor electrical connection :-) Soldering is a very good mechanical and electrical connection; I just make sure there is no wicking of solder up the cable by minimising the amount of solder and holding the joint the right way when soldering. [Stands back and waits for incoming flak]


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:58:49 PM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Andrew I added the simplistic statement "the Trutrak servo won't fit inside the thigh support" when I wrote the Mod because I did not have a either a Mono to work with or the time to develop it. Here in the UK I have to work with a demanding regulator (the LAA) and would have had to demonstrate that what I was writing up really does work well. What you have not seen yet is that Mod 76 issue 3. This adds the Dynon to the approved list. The Dynon servos will fit easily as the electronics are inside the gear box (not in a separate box on the side). I finished it months ago at the request of the LAA (as various builders wanted the Dynon) but Europa have yet to get round to publishing it. Bud's advice is good. There are various ways which the altitude hold can be achieved. Bud has referred to "attached the pitch servo to the tube behind the baggage bay". It was decided that this was not really suitable for all aircraft but it has been approved as an individual Mod on one aircraft (and could be used again). I did the drawings for this mod which are attached. As you will see the servo used was a Trio but any one would fit as well. If this is of interest please contact me direct if you want more details. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:56:35 PM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: GRT avionics
    Gentlemen Has anyone used Grand Rapids kit and if so what was the experience? Yours Will Bogota


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:06:57 PM PST US
    From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com
    Subject: Re: Trutrak or Trio Autopilot?
    Hi All, I installed the TruTrak under the passenger seat in my mono and it all fit w ithout any problem. I did not need to modify the space at all. I cut an access hole in the seat bottom and made a cover for the front exist ing access hole. I don't yet have a pitch servo, but Ian's drawing sure looks good! This autopilot coupled with the GPS has me totally spoiled. Kevin On Jun 3, 2012, at 2:54 PM, "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Andrew > > I added the simplistic statement =9Cthe Trutrak servo won't fit insi de the thigh support=9D when I wrote the Mod because I did not have a e ither a Mono to work with or the time to develop it. Here in the UK I have t o work with a demanding regulator (the LAA) and would have had to demonstrat e that what I was writing up really does work well. > > What you have not seen yet is that Mod 76 issue 3. This adds the Dynon to the approved list. The Dynon servos will fit easily as the electronics are inside the gear box (not in a separate box on the side). I finished it mo nths ago at the request of the LAA (as various builders wanted the Dynon) bu t Europa have yet to get round to publishing it. > > Bud=99s advice is good. There are various ways which the altitude h old can be achieved. Bud has referred to =9Cattached the pitch servo t o the tube behind the baggage bay=9D. It was decided that this was no t really suitable for all aircraft but it has been approved as an individua l Mod on one aircraft (and could be used again). I did the drawings for thi s mod which are attached. As you will see the servo used was a Trio but any one would fit as well. If this is of interest please contact me direct if y ou want more details. > > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours > Europa Club Mods Specialist > e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > <THAutopilot (2).pdf> > <THAutopilot(1).pdf>


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:02:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: GRT avionics
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Will, The GRT EIS 4000 works very well and was surprisingly easy to install. Not totally flawless, but close. The GRT Sport EFIS is more complicated and I'm still working out some wiring issues with the interface to the EIS 4000. But first I must get the 914 running right before I can tackle the wiring. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jun 3, 2012, at 5:55 PM, William Daniell wrote: Gentlemen Has anyone used Grand Rapids kit and if so what was the experience? Yours Will Bogota




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