---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/07/12: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_woodcomp_install_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?on_G-umpy_any_tips_=3F? (Carl Pattinson) 2. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: woodcomp install on G-umpy any tips ? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 3. 02:45 PM - 2. electric fuel pump (UVTREITH) 4. 09:14 PM - Re: 2. electric fuel pump (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:57 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_woodcomp_install_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?on_G-umpy_any_tips_=3F? X-mailer: iolo System Shield 10.7.6.60 Hi Graeme, Congrats on your Woodcomp Purchase - we reckon that ours has added close on 10kts to the cruise speed (compared with the Warp drive fixed pitch). Just one word of warning - have you trial fitted the new prop or checked that the prop spacer is the correct size for your Rotax engine ? "not a lot of people know this " but over the years the 912 prop flange has changed 3 times (ie: 3 different diameter prop flange fittings). If your prop doesn't match the flange then you have 2 options (1) replacing the gearbox prop shaft cost 1,000 from Con Air or (2) getting Woodcomp to supply the correct spacer plate (200) which you can fit yourself. Third (possible) option is that I have my old spacer plate(as we fell foul of the above issue) which fits the newer Rotax engines. You are welcome to borrow/ purchase our old spacer if this proves to be an suitable solution. Hopefully though your nearly new prop WILL bolt straight on to your engine and you wont need to consider any of the above. If you need the Woodcomp inserts for your Rotax engine I have 2 sets of these going spare (cost you the postage- lol), also some new prop locking nuts (somewhere). The original threaded inserts need to be removed (knocked out with a soft hammer) from the Rotax prop mounting flange. You may also need to space the slip ring brush support plate away from the engine. You can either use spacer washers or make a spacer plate from alloy sheet. Finally if you need to balance the prop, I have a dynamic prop balancer - though in my experience the Woodcomp prop is extremely well balanced when it leaves the factory. Need any more info just give me a call. Cheers, Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 06 June 2012 18:31 Subject: Europa-List: woodcomp install on G-umpy any tips ? Got me a nearly new david joyce style 3 wide blade woodcomp and a smart avionics controller. Any tips for installation and/or operation? I have the inserts on the prop 912ULS flange for the warp drive do these need to come out I wonder? I presume I can put the Manifold pressure sensor behind the dash, keep the wires short and pipe the pressure tube through the firewall? Install seems straightforward. I seem to recall mr Carl P turning his to manual regularly during our flight in his to stop the motor working all the time. How useful is the extra external LED which shows the motor driving? Comments appreciated as always. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Newby: 25 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374868#374868 _______________________________________ No infections found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo System Shield http://www.iolo.com _______________________________________ No infections found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo System Shield http://www.iolo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:25 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: woodcomp install on G-umpy any tips ? Carl=0Arather than knocking out the prop drive-lugs-I pressed them out. I used a bolt sized to fit the lug thread-=0Aand a suitable sized socket -to fit over the head of the lug. Then-a thick washer to-gently sque eze them out=0Aby tightening the bolt. Better than a knocking stick, even a soft one. No shock to the gearbox.=0AGraham=0A=0A<> =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Carl Pattinson =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012, 12:08=0ASubject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List: woodcomp install on G-umpy any tips ?=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" =0A=0AHi Graeme,=0A=0ACo ngrats on your Woodcomp Purchase - we reckon that ours has added close on =0A10kts to the cruise speed (compared with the Warp drive fixed pitch).=0A =0AJust one word of warning - have you trial fitted the new prop or checked =0Athat the prop spacer is the correct size for your Rotax engine ? =0A=0A" not a lot of people know this " but over the years the 912 prop flange has =0Achanged 3 times (ie: 3 different diameter prop flange fittings).=0A=0AIf your prop doesn't match the flange then you have 2 options (1) replacing =0Athe gearbox prop shaft cost =A31,000 from Con Air or (2) getting Woodcom p to=0Asupply the correct spacer plate (=A3200) which you can fit yourself. =0A=0AThird (possible) option is that I have my old spacer plate(as we fell foul=0Aof the above issue)- which fits the newer Rotax engines. You are welcome to=0Aborrow/ purchase our old spacer if this proves to be an suitab le solution.=0A=0AHopefully though your nearly new prop WILL bolt straight on to your engine=0Aand you wont need to consider any of the above.=0A=0AIf you need the Woodcomp inserts for your Rotax engine- I have 2 sets of=0A these going spare (cost you the postage-- lol), also some new prop lockin g=0Anuts (somewhere).=0A=0AThe original threaded inserts need to be removed (knocked out with a soft=0Ahammer) from the Rotax prop mounting flange.=0A =0AYou may also need to space the slip ring brush support plate away from t he=0Aengine. You can either use spacer washers or make a spacer plate from alloy=0Asheet.=0A=0AFinally if you need to balance the prop, I have a dynam ic prop balancer -=0Athough in my experience the Woodcomp prop is extremely well balanced when it=0Aleaves the factory.=0A=0ANeed any more info just g ive me a call.=0A=0ACheers,=0ACarl=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird=0ASent: 06 June 2012 18:31=0ATo: eur opa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: woodcomp install on G-umpy a mk.co.uk>=0A=0AGot me a nearly new david joyce style 3 wide blade woodcomp and a smart=0Aavionics controller.=0AAny tips for installation and/or opera tion?=0AI have the inserts on the prop 912ULS flange for the warp drive do these=0Aneed to come out I wonder?=0AI presume I can put the Manifold press ure sensor behind the dash, keep the=0Awires short and pipe the pressure tu be through the firewall?=0AInstall seems straightforward.=0AI seem to recal l mr Carl P turning his to manual regularly during our flight=0Ain his to s top the motor working all the time.=0AHow useful is the extra external LED which shows the motor driving?=0A=0AComments appreciated as always.=0A=0A-- ------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY=0AMono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP =0ANewby: 25 hours=0Ag(at)gdbmk.co.uk=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=374868#374868=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________________=0A No infections found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo System Shield =AE=0Ahttp://www.iolo.com=0A=0A=0A_______________________________________ =0ANo infections found in this outgoing message=0AScanned by iolo System Sh == ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:49 PM PST US From: "UVTREITH" Subject: Europa-List: 2. electric fuel pump Hallo Europa Family For safety reason I want to install a second Pierburg fuel pump. Both pumps are below the reservoir level. In the Europa builder manual of the Rotax 914 and also in the manuals from Rotax they say two pumps in line (it is not series, as both pumps have a bypass via check valves). Others like Pierburg or other aircraft builder say pumps parallel, connected to a double switch (Doppelschalter) where one positive cable (say from the engine control) goes to one end and the other positive cable for the auxiliary pump, which comes from a buss plate or direct from the battery goes to the second part of the switch. That means, when the main pump fails you disconnect with the double switch this line and immediately you have connected the good pump. A full bypass flow by using the check valve lines as made with the inline installation is not necessary, as this way would be good only by planes where the reservoir would be above the engine like a Piper cub. The parallel installation with the double switch (you must be sure that at first one pump is shut off before the other pump will get switched on) would be much easier with much less leaking points. So keep it simple as possible. Do you agree or is that rubbish? Have always safe flights (never suspend the laws) and all the best, Bruno ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:21 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 2. electric fuel pump Bruno, I am not sure what engine you have and which Piersburg pump you are using. For the 914: I was content with the parallel pumps for years. The Piersburg pumps operate pretty well either together or separately as the vane type pumps do not allow significant back flow. However, the series style now considered standard with bypass check valves, is designed to prevent any problems, allow the pumps to operate together (as on takeoff for hands free change if one pump fails on takeoff), or singly for normal cruise operations. We were never worried about priming the pumps so the location of the pumps low or higher was not necessary. We were most concerned about the actions necessary in the event of a pump failure on takeoff or landing with the 914 and rapid priming in the event of fuel starvation from fuel mismanagement. If you use the double switch idea, you only get one pump at a time (If you have a 912 that may be OK.), which lowers pressure and flow a bit and in the event of a failure of the engine due tolack of fuel, the pilot in a critical situation must first fly the plane and then go through a switch change to hopefully catch the engine before it stops or perhaps is required to focus on his flying skills rather than correcting the engine problem. The Rotax standard fuel pump installation model now is considered the best case scenario for critical phases of flight for the 914. First: On takeoff or landings select: Main tank, (or Reserve if main tank is very low) Main boost pump on Aux pump on (This pump is not only battery driven, if the battery fails, the alternator supplies current to continue its operation.) Aux pump off (When at a safe altitude on takeoff and returned to on when beginning descent or when operating at low altitude.) This covers many potential failures: Main tank has its own filter and with a change to reserve, a new filter and tank side clears up supply problems. Main boost pump on allows full fuel flow and should the aux pump fail internally, the check valve will allow continued fuel supply around the failed pump (either a fully blocked pump or a fully open line as if the vanes completely shear off). The Aux Boost pump can operate unobstructed as above and has a second source of power. It is powered by the alternator and battery. Even if the main contactor or battery completely dies, the alternator will allow the aux pump to operate. All the above on takeoff or landing requires no action on the part of the pilot in the event of a pump failure. With the pumps placed as low as possible in the aircraft the head pressure of the fuel in the tank should quickly prime the pumps. Once at a safe altitude, should the engine begin to misbehave, as in your system the pilot only needs to: Turn on the Aux Boost Pump Switch tanks to the Reserve. These two actions supply the pumps with a clean filter and a new fuel source, turn on a second pump to increase potential fuel flow and provide a secondary power source should the problem be electrical. Refer to chapter 5 of the Europa Rotax 914 Installation Manual for the best drawing of the fuel plumbing. Refer of course to Europa Build Manual Chapter 25 page 11 for the drawing of the electrical or the Rotax 914 installation manual. As I check out a number of folks in the Europa, as well as answer many emergency procedure questions, the design set forth in the Rotax and Europa instructions allow a easy to teach and use system and to quickly clear up fuel system component failures. True there are more fittings to potentially leak, but good quality hose and clamps make that a non problem. I have converted to R9 hose and with proper clamps, properly tightened (that is, not over-tightened to cut the hose), it gives years of service. One note of caution: Refrain from using inexpensive paper element filters. These filters when exposed to water tend to have their paper filter material swell and significantly restricts the fuel flow. Should water be in the fuel, even in small amounts, the paper element may swell and restrict flow. The problem of this restricted flow is that the Piersburg or even the less complex Facet pumps will have a great deal of difficulty re-priming in the event of fuel mismanagement and may not even supply the minimum engine fuel flow and pressure requirements once primed. It is necessary to test the filters if you are using other than a fuel filter element which allows water to be trapped or flow through... Best regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: UVTREITH To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 5:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: 2. electric fuel pump Hallo Europa Family For safety reason I want to install a second Pierburg fuel pump. Both pumps are below the reservoir level. In the Europa builder manual of the Rotax 914 and also in the manuals from Rotax they say two pumps in line (it is not series, as both pumps have a bypass via check valves). Others like Pierburg or other aircraft builder say pumps parallel, connected to a double switch (Doppelschalter) where one positive cable (say from the engine control) goes to one end and the other positive cable for the auxiliary pump, which comes from a buss plate or direct from the battery goes to the second part of the switch. That means, when the main pump fails you disconnect with the double switch this line and immediately you have connected the good pump. A full bypass flow by using the check valve lines as made with the inline installation is not necessary, as this way would be good only by planes where the reservoir would be above the engine like a Piper cub. The parallel installation with the double switch (you must be sure that at first one pump is shut off before the other pump will get switched on) would be much easier with much less leaking points. So keep it simple as possible. Do you agree or is that rubbish? Have always safe flights (never suspend the laws) and all the best, Bruno http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.