Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 06/12/12


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:10 AM - Re: Weight of HPL 3 blade warp drive prop for ref (G-IANI)
     2. 03:42 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_Weight_of_HPL_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?3_blade_warp_drive_prop_for_ref? (Carl Pattinson)
     3. 04:53 AM - Chasing Fuel Smells (Paul McAllister)
     4. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
     5. 05:18 AM - Re: Europa Club Annual General Meeting (Remi Guerner)
     6. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
     7. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Robert Borger)
     8. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Max Cointe)
     9. 08:32 AM - Re: GRT avionics (William Daniell)
    10. 11:56 AM - Re: "G-umpy smells of petrol" she said (graeme bird)
    11. 11:57 AM - Re: Weight of HPL 3 blade warp drive prop for ref (graeme bird)
    12. 12:00 PM - Re: Chasing Fuel Smells (graeme bird)
    13. 02:14 PM - Re: GRT avionics (Paul McAllister)
    14. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Chasing Fuel Smells (Paul McAllister)
    15. 04:05 PM - Re: GRT avionics (William Daniell)
    16. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Fred Klein)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:10:29 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Weight of HPL 3 blade warp drive prop for ref
    Graeme I am not sure exactly what it is you are quoting the weight of. The numbers you give seem wrong to me. The weight of an Airmaster AP332 setup is 11.8Kg for the prop and 0.6Kg for the controller (Total 12.3KG = 26.6Lb). You will find this quoted on page 3 of the Airmaster brochure:- http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/Portals/0/Products/Systems/Airmaster-broc hure-332.pdf I have one here, not yet on the aircraft, if you want me to check. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:42:39 AM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_Weight_of_HPL_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?3_blade_warp_drive_prop_for_ref?
    X-mailer: iolo System Shield 10.7.6.60 Hi Ian, Unless I am much mistaken, Graeme is fitting a Woodcomp assembly - not Airmaster. I just had a look at the figures when I changed from a tapered blade Warp drive to my Woodcomp SR3000. Warp Drive (with spinner) 4.9kg. Woodcomp (with spinner) 12.5 kg However I believe Graemes Warp prop is not the tapered variety (bigger engine) and his Woodcomp is a later spec than mine (mine is all wood - Scimitar shape). Figures should be similar though. Cheers, -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Sent: 12 June 2012 11:09 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Weight of HPL 3 blade warp drive prop for ref Graeme I am not sure exactly what it is you are quoting the weight of. The numbers you give seem wrong to me. The weight of an Airmaster AP332 setup is 11.8Kg for the prop and 0.6Kg for the controller (Total 12.3KG = 26.6Lb). You will find this quoted on page 3 of the Airmaster brochure:- http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/Portals/0/Products/Systems/Airmaster-broc hure-332.pdf I have one here, not yet on the aircraft, if you want me to check. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com _______________________________________ No infections found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo System Shield. http://www.iolo.com _______________________________________ No infections found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo System Shield http://www.iolo.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:53:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Chasing Fuel Smells
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Hello, Over the years I have chased fuel smells in my Europa. I think there were 3 things that made the biggest change. - Replaced all rubber hoses with Fuel Injection hose - Replaced all of the clips with smooth band clamps used for fuel injection hose - Replaced the elbow with aluminum. Despite this I would occasionally get smells which would take forever to find and then I discovered an ultraviolet dye that can be put in the fuel. By using this I could find the smallest leak with a UV Led torch within 10 minutes. Regards, Paul


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:04:02 AM PST US
    From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Contact detail & Help
    Bud, A fascinating article - thanks. It would seem that I have spent the last God knows how many years researching the same data as you (mostly 1940's and 50's NACA papers) and come up with much the same conclusions regarding cooling and cooling drag reduction. By a curious coincidence, I have been busy this weekend buried in my workshop - laminating. Compare the results, hot-out-of-the-mould, with the computer generated cowl design on page 16 of your report. My design concepts would all appear to have come out of your "Lets's get radical" section! Keep up the good work. Nigel On 10/06/2012 05:21, Bud Yerly wrote: > Ken and Graham, > I've attached my modifications and techniques briefing used for Europa > Cooling with the XS cowl which written up in the Europa Flyer . > If I do say so myself, I never have cooling issues in Florida at 95 > degree summer days using 50/50 Anitifreeze. Judging by the calls and > email success stories, these simple techniques work pretty much world > wide. > References for further study are at the end of the document. > Those who have followed these techniques with a stock cowl have no > problems cooling especially with the trigear. In fact it gets a bit > too cool in cooler climates and this is with no modifications to the > existing cowl, only treating the airflow around the coolers. > I have worked these issues over the last six years and we just > finished three more aircraft at the shop, all Rotax and we reworked a > clients Jab 3300, and all the Rotax's have no cooling issues and the > Jab is tolerable except taxi times must be short, 10 or 15 minutes > max or it gets a bit too hot for a takeoff on a summer day. > I'll do another briefing/article on the Jabiru before long. > Call or email me at the office in Florida below if you have need of > more specifics or are having problems getting the references on line. > Regards, > Bud Yerly > Europa Tech Support > US Europa Dealer > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > www.customflightcreations.com <http://www.customflightcreations.com> > (813) 653-4989 > **


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:18:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Europa Club Annual General Meeting
    From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr>
    Hi Alasdair, Sorry I will not be able to attend, as I am organizing a Fly-In here in Gap the very same Saturday. This date was retained a long time ago, long before the Popham Europa Fly-In was announced. I will miss it. Anyway I am planning to attend the LAA rally in September. Regards Remi F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375374#375374


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:48:02 AM PST US
    From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com
    Subject: Re: Contact detail & Help
    Nigel, Oh my, what a beautiful work of art. I hope you will keep us informed of res ults regarding the boy with nose job! Kevin Do not archive On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:02 AM, "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-t ecque.co.uk> wrote: > Bud, > > A fascinating article - thanks. It would seem that I have spent the last G od knows how many years researching the same data as you (mostly 1940's a nd 50's NACA papers) and come up with much the same conclusions regarding co oling and cooling drag reduction. By a curious coincidence, I have been busy this weekend buried in my workshop - laminating. Compare the results, h ot-out-of-the-mould, with the computer generated cowl design on page 16 of y our report. My design concepts would all appear to have come out of your "Lets's get radical" section! > > Keep up the good work. > > Nigel > > On 10/06/2012 05:21, Bud Yerly wrote: >> >> Ken and Graham, >> I've attached my modifications and techniques briefing used for Europa Co oling with the XS cowl which written up in the Europa Flyer . >> If I do say so myself, I never have cooling issues in Florida at 95 degre e summer days using 50/50 Anitifreeze. Judging by the calls and email succe ss stories, these simple techniques work pretty much world wide. >> >> References for further study are at the end of the document. >> >> Those who have followed these techniques with a stock cowl have no proble ms cooling especially with the trigear. In fact it gets a bit too cool in c ooler climates and this is with no modifications to the existing cowl, only t reating the airflow around the coolers. >> I have worked these issues over the last six years and we just finished t hree more aircraft at the shop, all Rotax and we reworked a clients Jab 3300 , and all the Rotax's have no cooling issues and the Jab is tolerable except taxi times must be short, 10 or 15 minutes max or it gets a bit too hot for a takeoff on a summer day. >> >> I'll do another briefing/article on the Jabiru before long. >> >> Call or email me at the office in Florida below if you have need of more s pecifics or are having problems getting the references on line. >> >> Regards, >> Bud Yerly >> Europa Tech Support >> US Europa Dealer >> Custom Flight Creations, Inc. >> www.customflightcreations.com >> (813) 653-4989 >> > <120610 - Cowl.pdf>


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:06:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Contact detail & Help
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Nigel, Holy Cow! That's gorgeous! If it works as well as it looks it should be worth 25 Kts. Keep us posted as work progresses and it flies. And take good care of those molds as you may have to spend all your spare time making copies for the rest of us. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jun 12, 2012, at 7:02 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: Bud, A fascinating article - thanks. It would seem that I have spent the last God knows how many years researching the same data as you (mostly 1940's and 50's NACA papers) and come up with much the same conclusions regarding cooling and cooling drag reduction. By a curious coincidence, I have been busy this weekend buried in my workshop - laminating. Compare the results, hot-out-of-the-mould, with the computer generated cowl design on page 16 of your report. My design concepts would all appear to have come out of your "Lets's get radical" section! Keep up the good work. Nigel On 10/06/2012 05:21, Bud Yerly wrote: > > Ken and Graham, > I've attached my modifications and techniques briefing used for Europa Cooling with the XS cowl which written up in the Europa Flyer . > If I do say so myself, I never have cooling issues in Florida at 95 degree summer days using 50/50 Anitifreeze. Judging by the calls and email success stories, these simple techniques work pretty much world wide. > > References for further study are at the end of the document. > > Those who have followed these techniques with a stock cowl have no problems cooling especially with the trigear. In fact it gets a bit too cool in cooler climates and this is with no modifications to the existing cowl, only treating the airflow around the coolers. > I have worked these issues over the last six years and we just finished three more aircraft at the shop, all Rotax and we reworked a clients Jab 3300, and all the Rotax's have no cooling issues and the Jab is tolerable except taxi times must be short, 10 or 15 minutes max or it gets a bit too hot for a takeoff on a summer day. > > I'll do another briefing/article on the Jabiru before long. > > Call or email me at the office in Florida below if you have need of more specifics or are having problems getting the references on line. > > Regards, > Bud Yerly > Europa Tech Support > US Europa Dealer > Custom Flight Creations, Inc. > www.customflightcreations.com > (813) 653-4989 > <120610 - Cowl.pdf>


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:24:19 AM PST US
    From: "Max Cointe" <mcointe@free.fr>
    Subject: Re: Contact detail & Help
    Hi Nigel, I should say =AB Master Nigel =BB, really Best-in-Class! Assuming there is few hundreds of Europa flying word wide, I thing you have a market for it. Otherwise, will you loan the mold or at least share the way to build it? Max Cointe F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 420 hours mcointe@free.fr De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk Envoy=E9 : mardi 12 juin 2012 14:03 =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help Bud, A fascinating article - thanks. It would seem that I have spent the last God knows how many years researching the same data as you (mostly 1940's and 50's NACA papers) and come up with much the same conclusions regarding cooling and cooling drag reduction. By a curious coincidence, I have been busy this weekend buried in my workshop - laminating. Compare the results, hot-out-of-the-mould, with the computer generated cowl design on page 16 of your report. My design concepts would all appear to have come out of your "Lets's get radical" section! Keep up the good work. Nigel On 10/06/2012 05:21, Bud Yerly wrote: Ken and Graham, I've attached my modifications and techniques briefing used for Europa Cooling with the XS cowl which written up in the Europa Flyer . If I do say so myself, I never have cooling issues in Florida at 95 degree summer days using 50/50 Anitifreeze. Judging by the calls and email success stories, these simple techniques work pretty much world wide. References for further study are at the end of the document. Those who have followed these techniques with a stock cowl have no problems cooling especially with the trigear. In fact it gets a bit too cool in cooler climates and this is with no modifications to the existing cowl, only treating the airflow around the coolers. I have worked these issues over the last six years and we just finished three more aircraft at the shop, all Rotax and we reworked a clients Jab 3300, and all the Rotax's have no cooling issues and the Jab is tolerable except taxi times must be short, 10 or 15 minutes max or it gets a bit too hot for a takeoff on a summer day. I'll do another briefing/article on the Jabiru before long. Call or email me at the office in Florida below if you have need of more specifics or are having problems getting the references on line. Regards, Bud Yerly Europa Tech Support US Europa Dealer Custom Flight Creations, Inc. www.customflightcreations.com (813) 653-4989


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:32:57 AM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: GRT avionics
    Thanks bob I am wavering between this and a dynon skyview...mind you I still have plenty plenty time before I make the decision! Yours Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 03 June, 2012 20:55 Subject: Re: Europa-List: GRT avionics Will, The GRT EIS 4000 works very well and was surprisingly easy to install. Not totally flawless, but close. The GRT Sport EFIS is more complicated and I'm still working out some wiring issues with the interface to the EIS 4000. But first I must get the 914 running right before I can tackle the wiring. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jun 3, 2012, at 5:55 PM, William Daniell wrote: --> <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Gentlemen Has anyone used Grand Rapids kit and if so what was the experience? Yours Will Bogota


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:56:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: "G-umpy smells of petrol" she said
    From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
    Thanks Nev, please keep me posted. I cant see why getting it through the LAA would be hard hasnt it been done already? -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Newby: 35 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375432#375432


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:57:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Weight of HPL 3 blade warp drive prop for ref
    From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
    yes indeed, Carl is correct, sorry for only giving half the info. Moving on up from a ground adjustable warp drive to a woodcomp 3000/3W. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Newby: 35 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375433#375433


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:00:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Chasing Fuel Smells
    From: "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
    that is useful Paul - any info on the dye used tourch, clips and cable would be useful. As a start I could use the dye and Tourch. I did wonder if there was any sort of carbon canister that could be left in while in the hangar to absorb the fumes. Or maybe a little dangly Christmas tree hanging from the compass :-) -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP Newby: 35 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375434#375434


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:14:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: GRT avionics
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Hey Will, I have a couple of GRT Sport's + EIS. I really like them, and for me I didn't find the configuration all that difficult. What I like is the customer support and the upgrade paths they offer. They are a very customer focused company... they are not happy until there customer is happy. I have heard that the Dynon cost less and are easier to commission, but no where as configurable. I guess if you don't need to have a highly configurable platform then it would be a better choice. Paul


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:21:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Chasing Fuel Smells
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Hi Graham, I bought it all on Amazon. The dye was about $25.00 and there is a different type for oil or coolant. I think the UV torch was about $15.00 and the UV Safety glasses were about $5.00. I doubt if a carbon canister will help much, leaving the door open is about as good as it gets. Cheers, Paul On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:58 PM, graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> wrote: > > that is useful Paul - any info on the dye used tourch, clips and cable > would be useful. As a start I could use the dye and Tourch. > I did wonder if there was any sort of carbon canister that could be left > in while in the hangar to absorb the fumes. > Or maybe a little dangly Christmas tree hanging from the compass :-)


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:05:04 PM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: GRT avionics
    thanks I was really impressed with the GRT Hxr description on the website which is what made me reconsider the dynon decision. It doesn't look too expensive either I do have a basic dynon in another aircraft and it works very well. I expect that by the time I get to installing the EFIS there will be something else on the market! Yours Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: 12 June, 2012 16:11 Subject: Re: Europa-List: GRT avionics Hey Will, I have a couple of GRT Sport's + EIS. I really like them, and for me I didn't find the configuration all that difficult. What I like is the customer support and the upgrade paths they offer. They are a very customer focused company... they are not happy until there customer is happy. I have heard that the Dynon cost less and are easier to commission, but no where as configurable. I guess if you don't need to have a highly configurable platform then it would be a better choice. Paul


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:37:47 PM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Re: Contact detail & Help
    On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:02 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: > It would seem that I have spent the last God knows how many years > researching the same data as you (mostly 1940's and 50's NACA > papers) and come up with much the same conclusions regarding cooling > and cooling drag reduction. By a curious coincidence, I have been > busy this weekend buried in my workshop - laminating. Nigel...do you Brits still shout "Huzzah? What outstanding work...absolutely superb...I can appreciate your many talents, dedication, hard work, and the HOURS you've devoted to this beauty. Here, here!! Two questions: - weight: ? - distance from front face of cowl (not including spinner) to edge of cowl which overlaps the firewall? Fred




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