---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/17/12: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:46 AM - Re: Re: Avoiding ground loops (David Joyce) 2. 04:07 AM - Re: Avoiding ground loops (h&jeuropa) 3. 05:02 AM - Flying into the UK (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 4. 06:52 AM - Large birds? (John Wigney) 5. 09:35 AM - Re: Large birds? (William Daniell) 6. 11:43 AM - Re: Large birds? (David Joyce) 7. 11:59 AM - Re: Flying into the UK (David Joyce) 8. 02:14 PM - folding bikes (William Bliss) 9. 02:23 PM - AGM (Steven Pitt) 10. 02:24 PM - Re: Avoiding ground Loops () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:40 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Avoiding ground loops Ron, I commend your approach of analysing problems before they get you! I should probably say that I had not given you the whole background. On our rececent Northern Lights trip (which weathr routed round the Med) I had a problem with the contact breaker for instruments popping, and had isolated the guilty wire so that I at least had engine instruments and fuel gauge. When landing on the day in question on hearing the stall Warner going It occurred to me to wonder whether that was on the same CB, so after turning off the active runway I taxied fast enough (probably 20+kts) to get the stall Warner squeaking and pulled the CB. It was on looking back up from pulling the CB that I found myself swerving to the right (you might say 'serves me right at this point!) So addressing your points: 1) Fine except killing power will reduce the down force on the tail plane. 2) I was taxying faster than what I had been told was the total tail wind so not a situation to shove stick forward, and in addition I have measured airflow past back of door at 40kts when on ground stationary at fast idle, so my feeling is that the stick needs full back unless you are in a gale going very slowly down wind 3) All my 950 hrs in the mono tell me to keep the stick hard back all the time other than when gaining speed as you take off. 4)As in a glider it becomes natural on the ground to use the ailerons to stop the plane leaning, and this may meanR stick to deal with R lean in following wind 5) I have the Singleton tail wheel mod (much recommended) so can't help on those sort of problems My comment on braking helping turning needs enlarging. It is possible to almost spin on the main wheel by judicious use of brake and power, but this is partly a question of using the plane's inertia to make the C of G which is behind the wheel, carry on round it. So braking only encourages a turn to continue - it counteracts efforts to stop a turn. So the clear message for me is if started on an uncontrollable turn DO NOT brake and consider putting in more power, unless of course that would send you into something hard or expensive! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:49:55 -0700 "rparigoris" wrote: > > > Hi David > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > I am close to a zero time Mono pilot (perhaps 5 minutes >of taxi time on a demo) so I am far from one with first >hand experience. , but did own a Cessna 170 taildragger >for 19 years and have flown various taildraggers along >the way. > > My perception of the Europa was that it has an extremely >powerful tailwheel steering, just need to make sure you >keep pressure on the tailwheel and "KEEP IT STRAIGHT" >because it does not have differential braking to save you >if you let things get out of shape (pointer target on >windscreen not only helps learn how to keep it straight, >but can aid in landing additude). Whenever I fly a >unconventional aeroplane (nosedragger), I always get >strange looks and am questioned why am I working so hard >to taxi a fool aeroplane on the ground. When and if the >skygods decide to deal me conditions I would rather not >be out in, this technique can pay a handsome reward even >in an unconventional aeroplane. > > Other than that the only negative I had about ground >handling of the XS mono is the poor turning radius (XS >stock bell-crank), but that is only a minor inconvenience >that I have no problem dealing with. > > Reading with great interest about your entry into the >club of (those who have), if you don't mind I would like >to do a little armchair flying about 5 concepts I have >about ground handling of the mono. Please comment >(comments from and put me in my place if I am off base >and set me straight. > > 1) Prior to purchasing my XS Monowheel, I read and spoke >with folks about nosing over on a mono and touching a >wingtip and hurting the prop when you attempt to use the >brake if you are in any sort of turn at all (including >losing an outrigger). I made a representative model with >scale placement of the main wheel, tailwheel and >outriggers. It is quite obvious that if you are going >other than straight, any turning force moves the canter >of gravity balance on the ground to a more nose heavy >configuration, the reason being is the outriggers are aft >of the main wheel and when side loads begin to load an >outrigger, the net result is moving your pivot point >back. Being a long time mono pilot, this should be second >nature to know not to hit the brake if in a turn? If you >enter a serious swerve, opposite rudder, kill power if >you have mindset and take the consequences without >hitting the brake, unless you manage to get it going >straight. This would be my plan, and I would practice i! > n my mind that if I lost control, this is what I would >do. In other words practice making my reflex to not hit >the brake in the event of a swerve because of the well >known consequences. Is this the wrong thing to practice? > > 2) I think everyone is in agreement that you want to >keep weight on the tailwheel so you have effective >steering. When you taxi downwind, you don't need very >much power. When you taxi downwind the airflow will be >going over the stabilator in the reverse direction to >normal flight if your taxi speed is less than the wind >speed. If that is the case then you do not want your >stabilator full aft because that reverse airflow will in >fact reduce the pressure on the tailwheel. On many >tailwheel aeroplanes you would want full forward stick to >get maximum downpressure on the tailwheel with reverse >airflow over the stabilator. Several high time mono >pilots say although this is true, if you add significant >power you could reverse the flow, so they settle for >perhaps neutral stabilator just in case you add a lot of >power and forget to pull stick full aft. What's your >thoughts on this practice? > > 3) I was planning on putting my bird in various amounts >of wind with a direct tailwind and also a quartering >tailwind and measure tailwheel force with no power, taxi >power, and a larger amount of power to try and figure out >optimal technique of keeping the tailwheel planted. Did >you, or anyone test this? What were findings? > I was going to do the same test with a quartering wind >and measure the effect of full into the wind and full >downwind ailerons. Motor off, stiff quartering tailwind, >main on a greaseplate and tailwheel on a skateboard to >allow EZ weathervaning. > > 4) Again we all know we are at a disadvantage with a >mono because we don't have differential braking. When >getting nailed with a right quartering tailwind, the nose >will want to swing right. Adding a little left brake is a >desirable thing. Thus keep the stick full left aileron so >reverse air will push the right wing harder downwind than >the left wing which should be the equivalent to a token >amount of left brake. This is standard for many >taildraggers. Is there a reason it should not be standard >practice on a mono? It also puts a token amount of >downforce on the upwind wing. > > 5) I am at a loss when I look at the cable tension for >monowheel steering. I may be missing something, but with >the standard XS set up, why would anyone ever consider >having anything else than precompressed springs that >should allow for the most precise control? It seems >anything other than precompressed springs would be like >driving a car with a worn rack and pinon steering >mechanism with a lot of slop between engagement of left >and right movement of wheels. > Is there something I am missing? > > Again I have no practical experience and wish to learn >from others on best practices and techniques. > > Sincerely > Ron Parigoris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375842#375842 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Avoiding ground loops From: "h&jeuropa" A quick note on your PS regarding birds. Many years ago, I was transitioning to a Mooney, on final, and ducks appeared, flying across my path from stbd & directly for the windscreen (I could see their eyes!). I announced to tower I was going around & pulled up. After, the instructor said that was the right thing to do on a bird encounter, not because of where the birds might fly, but because if they hit the plane, it is better to have the impact on a structure like the belly than the windscreen. Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375880#375880 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:10 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Flying into the UK I recently reported on the changes since last year in the Belgian requirements associated with the special permit required to fly over Belgian territory with a homebuilt aircraft. I am pleased to see that the UK CAA has relaxed their requirement, in that homebuilt aircraft (with all documents valid) registered in an ECAC member state can now visit the UK for up to 28 days without a special permit (which in the past was easy to get, and free of charge, it should be added). This is set forth in a revised exemption issued in April, see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1407/20120427GenericConcession1No6.pdf If only Belgium would reciprocate the welcome extended to Belgian homebuilts visiting other ECAC member states ......... The revised UK policy does not appear to be reflected on the Europa Club web site http://www.theeuropaclub.org/flight-briefing/flight-planning/flying-in-the-u k-from-abroad/ Looking very much forward to land at Popham next week! Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:47 AM PST US From: John Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Large birds? Hi David, I can endorse your conclusion regarding large birds. In my part of the world, it is common to find large hawks and vultures circling in thermals up to many thousands of feet. I have learned never to fly under these birds as they will close their wings and drop when they see a plane nearby. I always fly round them or pull over them. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina ORIGINAL MESSAGE .... Now when confronted with a large bird looking as though it is coming through the screen I reckon the smart move is to pull up, as birds are likely to dive in a panic situation as their only means of rapidly gaining speed to avoid a threat, but when it first happened I hesitated a bit before turning right, wondering whether the bird knew the rules of the air! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:53 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Large birds? In Colombia you find a lot of these large Sh** hawks and often very high. The rule that we always follow is to let them get out of your way they fly better than you and they don't have noisy engines so they can hear you and are perfectly capable of working out where you are going. If you start to try and dodge them you end up in situation similar to that with an oncoming pedestrian when you both go one way and then both go the other. will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wigney Sent: 17 June, 2012 08:51 Subject: Europa-List: Large birds? Hi David, I can endorse your conclusion regarding large birds. In my part of the world, it is common to find large hawks and vultures circling in thermals up to many thousands of feet. I have learned never to fly under these birds as they will close their wings and drop when they see a plane nearby. I always fly round them or pull over them. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina ORIGINAL MESSAGE .... Now when confronted with a large bird looking as though it is coming through the screen I reckon the smart move is to pull up, as birds are likely to dive in a panic situation as their only means of rapidly gaining speed to avoid a threat, but when it first happened I hesitated a bit before turning right, wondering whether the bird knew the rules of the air! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:00 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Large birds? William, I have met lots of buzzards and the occasional peregrine in thermals in my gliding days, when I would have been doing something like 50 kts, and they have generally turned and dived without me needing to change my course. However approaching a large bird at 130kts is a different thing- I don't think their reflexes are geared to other aerial things doing hat sort of speed, and feel that they are likely to go downwards and that if I am going to have a bird strike the underside of the plane is the best place for it. They are also most unlikely to ne able to match my climb rate. The few very large vultures/eagles I have met in Spain have gone serenely on their way without blinking, clearly assuming that every thing else in the sky would naturally get out of heir way! Regards, David Joyce On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:34:57 -0500 "William Daniell" wrote: > In Colombia you find a lot of these large Sh** hawks and >often very high. > > > > The rule that we always follow is to let them get out of >your way they fly > better than you and they don't have noisy engines so >they can hear you and > are perfectly capable of working out where you are >going. If you start to > try and dodge them you end up in situation similar to >that with an oncoming > pedestrian when you both go one way and then both go the >other. > > > > will > > > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of John Wigney > Sent: 17 June, 2012 08:51 > To: David Joyce; Europa-List > Subject: Europa-List: Large birds? > > > > Hi David, > > I can endorse your conclusion regarding large birds. In >my part of the > world, it is common to find large hawks > ed+tailed+hawk&gbv=2&oq=red+tailed+hawk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=img.12...0.0.1.3 > 753.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0.ElDEdYdO_uE> and >vultures > lack+vulture&gbv=2&oq=black+vu&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.1.0.0l10.2011.5991 > .0.7051.8.7.0.1.1.0.100.525.6j1.7.0...0.0._742EBEmjg8> > circling in thermals > up to many thousands of feet. I have learned never to >fly under these birds > as they will close their wings and drop when they see a >plane nearby. I > always fly round them or pull over them. > > Cheers, John > > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > > > ORIGINAL MESSAGE > .... Now when confronted with a large bird looking as >though > it is coming through the screen I reckon the smart move >is > to pull up, as birds are likely to dive in a panic > situation as their only means of rapidly gaining speed >to > avoid a threat, but when it first happened I hesitated a > bit before turning right, wondering whether the bird >knew > the rules of the air! > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:03 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying into the UK Seeing, Thanks for noting this. I will update the website. Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:01:33 +0200 "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" wrote: > I recently reported on the changes since last year in >the Belgian > requirements associated with the special permit required >to fly over Belgian > territory with a homebuilt aircraft. > > > > I am pleased to see that the UK CAA has relaxed their >requirement, in that > homebuilt aircraft (with all documents valid) registered >in an ECAC member > state can now visit the UK for up to 28 days without a >special permit (which > in the past was easy to get, and free of charge, it >should be added). This > is set forth in a revised exemption issued in April, see > > > > http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1407/20120427GenericConcession1No6.pdf > > > > If only Belgium would reciprocate the welcome extended >to Belgian homebuilts > visiting other ECAC member states ......... > > > > The revised UK policy does not appear to be reflected on >the Europa Club web > site > http://www.theeuropaclub.org/flight-briefing/flight-planning/flying-in-the-u > k-from-abroad/ > > > > Looking very much forward to land at Popham next week! > > > > Regards, > > Svein > > LN-SKJ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:11 PM PST US From: William Bliss Subject: Europa-List: folding bikes hello all I'm new to this group - considering buying a taildragger Europa to fly from a farm strip NE England. Can anyone tell me if the XS baggage space is big enough for 2 folding bicycles (Brompton or similar)? Thanks William Bliss ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:16 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Europa-List: AGM Just to remind everyone that the Club AGM is next weekend (23rd June) at Popham Airfield. We hope to see as many of you as possible for the meeting and the BBQ afterwards. Many members will be staying over night and the beer is on order. We hope that the weather is kind to us but even so we have a marquee to ensure we are covered for the meeting if necessary. If you are unble to attend let me know if there are any matters that you would like raised. Regards Steve Pitt Chairman, Europa Club PS A really interesting Europa Flyer will be on its way to you shortly with articles from several new writers. Thank you to you all ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:18 PM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: re: Avoiding ground Loops Fellow mono birds: I followed the discussion with interest and was intrigued to see the by-play regarding various winds while taxying.. I seem to remember (from Harvard days - our initial machine), that much emphasis was put on the proper positioning of the stick..... I seem to have several pokes of the rear seat stick to the back of my empty head that - the stick is opposite the known wind when same is over 10 knots.* Now the poor old HVD is much heavier so suspect the stick is more sensitive at lower Europa winds. PLUS the vert stab/rudder is much more sensitive than the HVD model AND the winds were carefully measured and divulged at a training station. FWIW Ferg C-FFGG 914 mono CSprop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.