Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Aluminium Fuel Elbow (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Paul McAllister)
4. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 11:40 AM - Re: Aluminium Fuel Elbow (ploucandco)
6. 02:36 PM - Europa AGM (Steven Pitt)
7. 03:18 PM - Re: Europa AGM (David Joyce)
Message 1
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Subject: | Aluminium Fuel Elbow |
If anybody is interested in procuring an XS fuel filler elbow/s as supplied by
Tim Ward in NZ could you please let me know.
I for one am a starter but we need several to constitute a batch.
Regards
Kingsley
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Contact detail & Help |
Paul=0Ayou know I can't resist temptation! I suspect that a bit of work re
exdhaust extraction might=0Abe profitable, it seems to work well on Long EZ
s, hoping to verify with flight testing in the next month.=0AGraham=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.a
viator@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 20 Ju
ne 2012, 17:32=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help=0A =0A
=0AHa ha.... I wondered who was going to be first out of the=0Acloset, me o
r Fran=99s. =C2-Fran=99s and I have=0Abeen collaborating on a
journey of discovery for the last couple of years.=C2- =0AI have been re
luctant to share what I have been doing,=0Amostly because up until now I ha
ve only been able to tell everyone what doesn't=0Awork! Both Fran's and I c
an share funny stories of tuft test showing air flow=0Aout where it should
be flowing in, some take offs where we couldn't get back on=0Athe ground qu
ick enough due overheating and lots of work and re work.=0AFor me, I am sti
ll works in progress, but over the next=0Awinter I plan on a fourth iterati
on over next winter which will be a similar=0Adesign to Fran=99s. If
I can persuade my friend Graham Singleton to come and=0Avisit, it might eve
n a new carbon fiber cowling :)=0A=0A=C2-=0AAt a high level the sources o
f design material we used were:=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Kays & Lo
ndon wedge diffuser=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Kuchemann & Web
er trumpet diffuser=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Cooling design
notes from the Central States=0ACanard Group=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-=C2-Taper diffuser design from the Canard group=0A* =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2-=C2-Oil Streaking presentations from the Central=0AState
s Canard Group=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Think Vs. think radi
ator notes from Rotary=0AEngine forums.=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-Cooling Vs flow data from Rotax and Laminova=0A=C2-=0AOur design cr
iteria was:=0ACooling that works in all phases of operation:=0A* =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2-Ground=0A* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Climb=0A*
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Cruise=0AOperates over a range of -5c to 40c=0AO
ffers the lowest drag possible=0A=C2-=0AThis ultimately dictated a few de
sign solutions:=0A=0ACowl Flap. =0AThis is the only way we could get coolin
g over a large speed=0Arange and ambient temperature.=0A=C2-=0ALaminova l
iquid oil=0Aheat exchanger.=0AIn one of the design iterations that Fran's h
ad created he=0Ahad the oil and water radiators separated. Although this pr
ovided plenty of oil=0Aand liquid cooling it caused a long cycle time to br
ing the oil temperature up=0Ato operating temperature. The Laminova solves
this problem.=C2- One problem that Fran's and I have not been=0Aable to s
olve is the need for a small axillary oil radiator.=0A=C2-=0AThick Vs. Th
in=0ARadiators.=0AI was ultimately able to make the thick radiator work wit
h a=0AKuchemann & Weber trumpet diffuser, but I intend to abandon this. Fro
m our=0Aresearch we have discovered that 70 to 80% of the heat exchange occ
urs in the=0Afirst 20mm of the radiator.=0A=C2-=0ADiffused Inlets.=0AAt f
irst glance Fran's cowl appears to have no diffuser on=0Athe inlet side of
the radiator, however it works very well.=C2- After reading the design no
tes for the Kays=0A& London wedge diffuser our hypothesis is that because t
he coolant radiator=0Ais at an angle to the relative wind it behaves like a
wedge diffusers.=0A=C2-=0AOther thoughts &=0Aobservations.=0AFran
=99s has been flying a working solution for nearly a year=0Aand his design
can be used as is.=C2- I am=0Adoing some experimentation with a single di
ffused inlet that provides the=0Aengine combustion air, inter cooler and th
e engine shroud. =C2-Given the level of effort this has proved to=0Abe I
wouldn=99t recommend anyone copying what I have done, and it remains
to be=0Aseen if it even works.=0AOver next winter I plan on removing the th
ick radiator and I=0Aexpect that this will be a lower drag configuration ov
er what I have.=0APointing the exhaust back is offers a lot of drag reducti
on.=0AI have some photographs that show the exhaust plume on the old style
exhaust=0Ashooting out nearly 2 meters.=C2- For=0Amonowheel the exhaust n
eeds to be much longer so that carbon monoxide does not=0Afind its way into
cabin via the tunnel. Unfortunately this was complex bit of=0Astainless st
eel to fabricate.=0AWhen my cowling is fully open it is the same angle as t
he=0Astandard cowling.=C2- I see 8 knots=0Adifference between fully open
and fully closed.=C2-=0AThis isn't an exact comparison because when my co
wl flap is open air=0Awill spill around the side and I expect this would be
higher drag than the original=0Acowl.=C2- I have done a number of long c
ross=0Acountry trips and for the same manifold pressure settings I am seein
g about 5=0Aknots increase in my cruise.=C2- I have Warp=0Adrive blades a
nd I do not wing root fairings so my set up is not as efficient=0Aas Fran
=========================0A
=======================
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Contact detail & Help |
Hello Graham,
Frans has attempted this with his design, but for a mono wheel there is a
very real chance of CO entering the airplane through the tunnel.
Exhaust augmentation / extraction makes a whole range of issues go away.
Ground cooling gets better the faster the engine runs, and as I understand
it from the Long EZ guys, you no longer need to diffuse the inlet airstream
.
Alas, I am with Bud on this.... time for tinkering is long over. I would
guess with research and building that Frans and I have spent many hundreds
of hours and its time to go flying :)
Cheers, Paul
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 5:44 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON <
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Paul
> you know I can't resist temptation! I suspect that a bit of work re
> exdhaust extraction might
> be profitable, it seems to work well on Long EZs, hoping to verify with
> flight testing in the next month.
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 20 June 2012, 17:32
>
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help
>
> Ha ha.... I wondered who was going to be first out of the closet, me or
> Fran=92s. Fran=92s and I have been collaborating on a journey of discove
ry for
> the last couple of years.
> I have been reluctant to share what I have been doing, mostly because up
> until now I have only been able to tell everyone what doesn't work! Both
> Fran's and I can share funny stories of tuft test showing air flow out
> where it should be flowing in, some take offs where we couldn't get back
on
> the ground quick enough due overheating and lots of work and re work.
> For me, I am still works in progress, but over the next winter I plan on
a
> fourth iteration over next winter which will be a similar design to Fran
=92s.
> If I can persuade my friend Graham Singleton to come and visit, it might
> even a new carbon fiber cowling :)
>
>
> At a high level the sources of design material we used were:
>
> - Kays & London wedge diffuser
> - Kuchemann & Weber trumpet diffuser
> - Cooling design notes from the Central States Canard Group
> - Taper diffuser design from the Canard group
> - Oil Streaking presentations from the Central States Canard
> Group
> - Think Vs. think radiator notes from Rotary Engine forums.
> - Cooling Vs flow data from Rotax and Laminova
>
>
> Our design criteria was:
> Cooling that works in all phases of operation:
>
> - Ground
> - Climb
> - Cruise
>
> Operates over a range of -5c to 40c
> Offers the lowest drag possible
>
> This ultimately dictated a few design solutions:
> *
> *
> *Cowl Flap. *
> This is the only way we could get cooling over a large speed range and
> ambient temperature.
>
> *Laminova liquid oil heat exchanger.*
> In one of the design iterations that Fran's had created he had the oil an
d
> water radiators separated. Although this provided plenty of oil and liqui
d
> cooling it caused a long cycle time to bring the oil temperature up to
> operating temperature. The Laminova solves this problem. One problem tha
t
> Fran's and I have not been able to solve is the need for a small axillary
> oil radiator.
>
> *Thick Vs. Thin Radiators.*
> I was ultimately able to make the thick radiator work with a Kuchemann &
> Weber trumpet diffuser, but I intend to abandon this. From our research w
e
> have discovered that 70 to 80% of the heat exchange occurs in the first
> 20mm of the radiator.
>
> *Diffused Inlets.*
> At first glance Fran's cowl appears to have no diffuser on the inlet side
> of the radiator, however it works very well. After reading the design
> notes for the Kays & London wedge diffuser our hypothesis is that because
> the coolant radiator is at an angle to the relative wind it behaves like
a
> wedge diffusers.
>
> *Other thoughts & observations.*
> Fran=92s has been flying a working solution for nearly a year and his des
ign
> can be used as is. I am doing some experimentation with a single diffuse
d
> inlet that provides the engine combustion air, inter cooler and the engin
e
> shroud. Given the level of effort this has proved to be I wouldn=92t
> recommend anyone copying what I have done, and it remains to be seen if i
t
> even works.
> Over next winter I plan on removing the thick radiator and I expect that
> this will be a lower drag configuration over what I have.
> Pointing the exhaust back is offers a lot of drag reduction. I have some
> photographs that show the exhaust plume on the old style exhaust shooting
> out nearly 2 meters. For monowheel the exhaust needs to be much longer s
o
> that carbon monoxide does not find its way into cabin via the tunnel.
> Unfortunately this was complex bit of stainless steel to fabricate.
> When my cowling is fully open it is the same angle as the standard
> cowling. I see 8 knots difference between fully open and fully closed.
> This isn't an exact comparison because when my cowl flap is open air will
> spill around the side and I expect this would be higher drag than the
> original cowl. I have done a number of long cross country trips and for
> the same manifold pressure settings I am seeing about 5 knots increase in
> my cruise. I have Warp drive blades and I do not wing root fairings so m
y
> set up is not as efficient as Fran=92s.
>
> Regards, Paul
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank" href="http://forums.matroni
cs.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Contact detail & Help |
agree with all you=C2- say, however: I used to get exhaust gas in cabin w
ithout it, it probably got in via the flap slots. There must be a significa
nt drag penalty from the exhaust plume squirting out vertical to the airflo
w.=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Paul Mc
Allister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASe
nt: Saturday, 23 June 2012, 14:44=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact d
etail & Help=0A =0A=0AHello Graham,=0A=0AFrans has attempted this with his
design, but for a mono wheel there is a very real chance of CO entering the
airplane through the tunnel.=0A=0AExhaust augmentation / extraction makes
a whole range of issues go away.=C2- Ground cooling gets better the faste
r the engine runs, and as I understand it from the Long EZ guys, you no lon
ger need to diffuse the inlet airstream.=0A=0AAlas, I am with Bud on this..
.. time for tinkering is long over.=C2- I would guess with research and b
uilding that Frans and I have spent many hundreds of hours and its time to
go flying :)=0A=0ACheers, Paul=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 5:44 AM, GRA
HAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:=0A=0APaul=0A>you know
I can't resist temptation! I suspect that a bit of work re exdhaust extrac
tion might=0A>be profitable, it seems to work well on Long EZs, hoping to v
erify with flight testing in the next month.=0A>Graham=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>_____
___________________________=0A> From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gma
il.com>=0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012,
17:32=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help=0A> =0A>
=0A>Ha ha.... I wondered who was going to be first out of the=0Acloset, me
or Fran=99s. =C2-Fran=99s and I have=0Abeen collaborating on
a journey of discovery for the last couple of years.=C2- =0A>I have been
reluctant to share what I have been doing,=0Amostly because up until now I
have only been able to tell everyone what doesn't=0Awork! Both Fran's and I
can share funny stories of tuft test showing air flow=0Aout where it shoul
d be flowing in, some take offs where we couldn't get back on=0Athe ground
quick enough due overheating and lots of work and re work.=0A>For me, I am
still works in progress, but over the next=0Awinter I plan on a fourth iter
ation over next winter which will be a similar=0Adesign to Fran=99s.
If I can persuade my friend Graham Singleton to come and=0Avisit, it might
even a new carbon fiber cowling :)=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2-=0A>At a high level the
sources of design material we used were:=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
-Kays & London wedge diffuser=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Ku
chemann & Weber trumpet diffuser=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-C
ooling design notes from the Central States=0ACanard Group=0A>* =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Taper diffuser design from the Canard group=0A>
* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Oil Streaking presentations from the
Central=0AStates Canard Group=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-Thin
k Vs. think radiator notes from Rotary=0AEngine forums.=0A>* =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2-=C2-Cooling Vs flow data from Rotax and Laminova=0A>=C2
-=0A>Our design criteria was:=0A>Cooling that works in all phases of oper
ation:=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Ground=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2-Climb=0A>* =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-Cruise=0A>Operates over
a range of -5c to 40c=0A>Offers the lowest drag possible=0A>=C2-=0A>This
ultimately dictated a few design solutions:=0A>=0A>=0A>Cowl Flap. =0A>This
is the only way we could get cooling over a large speed=0Arange and ambient
temperature.=0A>=C2-=0A>Laminova liquid oil=0Aheat exchanger.=0A>In one
of the design iterations that Fran's had created he=0Ahad the oil and water
radiators separated. Although this provided plenty of oil=0Aand liquid coo
ling it caused a long cycle time to bring the oil temperature up=0Ato opera
ting temperature. The Laminova solves this problem.=C2- One problem that
Fran's and I have not been=0Aable to solve is the need for a small axillary
oil radiator.=0A>=C2-=0A>Thick Vs. Thin=0ARadiators.=0A>I was ultimately
able to make the thick radiator work with a=0AKuchemann & Weber trumpet di
ffuser, but I intend to abandon this. From our=0Aresearch we have discovere
d that 70 to 80% of the heat exchange occurs in the=0Afirst 20mm of the rad
iator.=0A>=C2-=0A>Diffused Inlets.=0A>At first glance Fran's cowl appears
to have no diffuser on=0Athe inlet side of the radiator, however it works
very well.=C2- After reading the design notes for the Kays=0A& London wed
ge diffuser our hypothesis is that because the coolant radiator=0Ais at an
angle to the relative wind it behaves like a wedge diffusers.=0A>=C2-=0A>
Other thoughts &=0Aobservations.=0A>Fran=99s has been flying a workin
g solution for nearly a year=0Aand his design can be used as is.=C2- I am
=0Adoing some experimentation with a single diffused inlet that provides th
e=0Aengine combustion air, inter cooler and the engine shroud. =C2-Given
the level of effort this has proved to=0Abe I wouldn=99t recommend an
yone copying what I have done, and it remains to be=0Aseen if it even works
.=0A>Over next winter I plan on removing the thick radiator and I=0Aexpect
that this will be a lower drag configuration over what I have.=0A>Pointing
the exhaust back is offers a lot of drag reduction.=0AI have some photograp
hs that show the exhaust plume on the old style exhaust=0Ashooting out near
ly 2 meters.=C2- For=0Amonowheel the exhaust needs to be much longer so t
hat carbon monoxide does not=0Afind its way into cabin via the tunnel. Unfo
rtunately this was complex bit of=0Astainless steel to fabricate.=0A>When m
y cowling is fully open it is the same angle as the=0Astandard cowling.=C2
- I see 8 knots=0Adifference between fully open and fully closed.=C2-
=0AThis isn't an exact comparison because when my cowl flap is open air=0Aw
ill spill around the side and I expect this would be higher drag than the o
riginal=0Acowl.=C2- I have done a number of long cross=0Acountry trips an
d for the same manifold pressure settings I am seeing about 5=0Aknots incre
ase in my cruise.=C2- I have Warp=0Adrive blades and I do not wing root f
airings so my set up is not as efficient=0Aas Fran=99s.=0A>=0A>=0A>Re
gards, Paul=0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?_blank" href="http://fo
rums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0A> arget="_blank">http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_bl
====
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Aluminium Fuel Elbow |
Hello Kinsgley, I got the aluminuim filler pipe from Tim. If you are interested,
I am not using it and can send it to you for cost.
By the way, seems that your e-mail is not working.
Jacques
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376449#376449
Message 6
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A short note to thank all of you that made todays AGM a great success
despite the weather reducing the flying visitors, with none of our
Continental colleagues being able to travel. 13 Europas turned up not
counting the 3 resident Europas at Popham.
All of the Committee worked tirelessly to make the day a success and special
thanks go to Nigel Graham our treasurer who proved once more what a talent
he is in the kitchen as well. The stuffed lamb roast was a great hit with
everyone.
Photos to follow shortly.
Regards
Steve Pitt
Chairman (again!!)
PS we will be at Popham again tomorrow with lamb sandwiches on the menu!!
Message 7
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And many thanks to you Steve and all your team on site who
have clearly got through a lot of hard work in difficult
circumstances. David
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:05 +0100
"Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com> wrote:
><steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
>
> A short note to thank all of you that made todays AGM a
>great success despite the weather reducing the flying
>visitors, with none of our Continental colleagues being
>able to travel. 13 Europas turned up not counting the 3
>resident Europas at Popham.
> All of the Committee worked tirelessly to make the day a
>success and special thanks go to Nigel Graham our
>treasurer who proved once more what a talent he is in the
>kitchen as well. The stuffed lamb roast was a great hit
>with everyone.
> Photos to follow shortly.
> Regards
> Steve Pitt
> Chairman (again!!)
> PS we will be at Popham again tomorrow with lamb
>sandwiches on the menu!!
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
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