---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/25/12: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:13 AM - fuselage repair (fireflier) 2. 02:07 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_fuselage_repair? (Carl Pattinson) 3. 02:40 AM - Re: fuselage repair (Brian Davies) 4. 03:12 AM - Ply Rating? (Carl Meek) 5. 04:55 AM - Re: Ply Rating? (Bob Harrison) 6. 05:40 AM - Re: fuselage repair (fireflier) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: Europa AGM (Richard Collings) 8. 10:34 AM - Euro Fly-In, Blois, France (Guerner Remi) 9. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Karl Heindl) 10. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: fuselage repair (craig) 11. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Contact detail & Help (Frans Veldman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: fuselage repair From: "fireflier" hello all I'm new to the forum have just purchased a part built Europa kit. However whilst transporting it back home it sustained some damage to the fuselage ( see picture attached) the reason for my post is to ask your opinions as to how best to repair this damage? The kit is in storage at the moment but will be getting moved to my workshop within the next couple of weeks to allow me to start my build process. My thoughts are before tackling anything else I need to make a proper repair to the damage sustained to the fuselage before continuing with the build. When my inspector comes to check my workshop I will obviously discuss the repair with him and get his opinions as how best to proceed with repairing the damage. I would value any opinions and options from yourselves as to the best options to make a repair to the damage. Many thanks taking the time in reading my post and I shall look forward to receiving your thoughts and solutions. Kind regards Fireflier -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376539#376539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/damage_to_fuselage_695.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:53 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Europa-List=3A_fuselage_repair? X-mailer: iolo System Shield 10.7.6.60 As you say, best discussed with your inspector - however a relatively easy repair I would have thought. Just need to push the damaged portion back in to shape and 2 layers of bid each side. Might need some flox to fill in any voids but the damage doesn't look too severe. You may need to do this in 2 stages - push the inside part into shape with something pliable (foam rubber)) and weighted down to keep in place, glass up the outside part first and when set glass up the inside. I wouldn't have thought it necessary to replace the foam in between but your inspector may have a different view. Anyway fairly simple provided the top isn't glued on yet (which I assume it isn't). Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fireflier Sent: 25 June 2012 09:12 Subject: Europa-List: fuselage repair --> hello all I'm new to the forum have just purchased a part built Europa kit. However whilst transporting it back home it sustained some damage to the fuselage ( see picture attached) the reason for my post is to ask your opinions as to how best to repair this damage? The kit is in storage at the moment but will be getting moved to my workshop within the next couple of weeks to allow me to start my build process. My thoughts are before tackling anything else I need to make a proper repair to the damage sustained to the fuselage before continuing with the build. When my inspector comes to check my workshop I will obviously discuss the repair with him and get his opinions as how best to proceed with repairing the damage. I would value any opinions and options from yourselves as to the best options to make a repair to the damage. Many thanks taking the time in reading my post and I shall look forward to receiving your thoughts and solutions. Kind regards Fireflier -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376539#376539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/damage_to_fuselage_695.jpg _______________________________________ No infections found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo System ShieldR http://www.iolo.com _______________________________________ No infections found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo System Shield http://www.iolo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:15 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: fuselage repair Hi, It is not possible to identify the exact location of the damage to the fuselage from your picture. Obviously, some areas are highly stressed and other areas are not. I think you have already answered you own question. Talk to your inspector and get his advice on the best way to repair the damage. It may require a repair scheme that needs LAA approval or it might be possible to repair "using normal aviation practice". Oh, and join the Europa Club so that you have access to a load of help when building your Europa! Go to www.theeuropaclub.org Regards Brian Davies -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fireflier Sent: 25 June 2012 09:12 Subject: Europa-List: fuselage repair --> hello all I'm new to the forum have just purchased a part built Europa kit. However whilst transporting it back home it sustained some damage to the fuselage ( see picture attached) the reason for my post is to ask your opinions as to how best to repair this damage? The kit is in storage at the moment but will be getting moved to my workshop within the next couple of weeks to allow me to start my build process. My thoughts are before tackling anything else I need to make a proper repair to the damage sustained to the fuselage before continuing with the build. When my inspector comes to check my workshop I will obviously discuss the repair with him and get his opinions as how best to proceed with repairing the damage. I would value any opinions and options from yourselves as to the best options to make a repair to the damage. Many thanks taking the time in reading my post and I shall look forward to receiving your thoughts and solutions. Kind regards Fireflier -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376539#376539 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/damage_to_fuselage_695.jpg ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Ply Rating? From: Carl Meek I've been trying to get hold of the correct tyres for my Tri-Gear and I've been asked if I want 4 or 6 ply. Which one is correct? Regards, -Carl. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:59 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ply Rating? Hi! Carl, IMHO the more the better. I recommend Watts Aviation Tyres they do some with harder compound and more square profile. But it is advise-able to turn them round at half life.(www.wattsaviation.co.uk) Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek Sent: 25 June 2012 11:11 Subject: Europa-List: Ply Rating? I've been trying to get hold of the correct tyres for my Tri-Gear and I've been asked if I want 4 or 6 ply. Which one is correct? Regards, -Carl. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: fuselage repair From: "fireflier" Hello Many thanks to everyone for their replies to my earlier question its much appreciated. I have posted more photos showing roughly where the damage has occurred to the fuselage. the space to take the photos was limited so they are still not great but didn't have anyone to help move the fuselage out to get better pictures sorry. Looking inside the fuselage it appears to be on a part of the fuselage that does not have any foam as part of the fuselage construction, therefore I presume it is not part of the fuselage subjected to stress? I have now joined the Europa club. Many thanks for all your comments and suggestion's they are much appreciated. Kind regards fireflier -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376550#376550 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_3_479.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_2_118.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 AM PST US From: "Richard Collings" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa AGM I know I didn't fly in but I still got lost trying to find the airfield entrance! Many thanks for organising a very good day with a little business and a lot of bonhomie. I do hope you are not out of pocket on the food. You and your team did us all proud. Best wishes Richard & Jo Collings --- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Pitt" Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:35 PM Subject: Europa-List: Europa AGM > > > A short note to thank all of you that made todays AGM a great success > despite the weather reducing the flying visitors, with none of our > Continental colleagues being able to travel. 13 Europas turned up not > counting the 3 resident Europas at Popham. > All of the Committee worked tirelessly to make the day a success and > special thanks go to Nigel Graham our treasurer who proved once more what > a talent he is in the kitchen as well. The stuffed lamb roast was a great > hit with everyone. > Photos to follow shortly. > Regards > Steve Pitt > Chairman (again!!) > PS we will be at Popham again tomorrow with lamb sandwiches on the menu!! > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:40 AM PST US From: Guerner Remi Subject: Europa-List: Euro Fly-In, Blois, France Hi all, This is a reminder to all Europaers from Europe: Euro Fly-In, the french RSA rally takes place next week end (June 29 - July 1st) in Blois. This year will be a special one as the 65th anniversary of both the LAA and the RSA will be celebrated. Blois is located 84 NM south west from Paris. Informations and english version of the Sup AIP for the event are available at: http://euroflyin.rsafrance.com/ Looking forward seeing many of you with your Europa there. Remi Guerner F-PGKL ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:43 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help Hi Frans=2C I have been following your developments with great interest and I think tha t the end result is just plain amazing. Your Europa must be the slickest an d fastest in this Universe.Now=2C top speed is very useful for testing drag improvements=2C but you don't cruise at those speeds=2C do you ? When you are touring=2C what are your preferred settings regarding speed=2C MP=2C rp m etc.=2C and exactly what is your fuel consumption then.If the rest of us mortals wanted to implement some of your changes without too much expense =2C what would you recommend ? Speed isn't all that important to me=2C but improvements in cooling and under-cowl temperatures would be very beneficia l. What is the part number for the heat exchanger and exactly where did you install it ?I recently had a look at a CT with 912s. It has a very neat fw f package. I noticed that it also has larger rads back-to-back=2C tucked in under its belly ahead of the exhaust=2C but at an angle of 45 degrees. I a lso noticed an oil thermostat=2C and a pulsation damper on top of the engin e for the fuel flow gauge (I could never get that to work on my engine). It had 800 hours on it but still looked brand new. It also had a very small ( 8AH?) battery. Karl > Date: Sun=2C 24 Jun 2012 13:31:53 +0200 > From: frans@privatepilots.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help > > > On 06/23/2012 12:01 AM=2C Bud Yerly wrote: > > > Lovely design... > > Thanks! > > > However=2C my comments are based on an installation that is stock. Tak es > > 40 hours from openning the box to engine fully installed and ready for > > start and is reapeatable with only the parts in the box. > > My solution would be even faster to build=2C if they would change the > contents of the box of course. It puzzles me why the contents of the box > has not been changed long time ago=2C when people started to complain > about inadequate cooling. > > > Many do not care to have any auto systems such as heat exchangers which > > may malfunction. > > There is no auto system involved. The heat exchanger is just two fluid > channels thermo coupled to each other. No moving parts=2C no electronic > parts=2C just similar to a radiator=2C but now with two fluid channels > instead of one fluid and one gas channel. > > > By all means=2C an extra hundred hours and cost will get you those extr a 9 > > knots. It just costs money and time. > > This argument is silly. Then why applying a finish on the airplane and > not painting the raw fabric? It just costs money and time to apply a > finish=2C for only 9 knots of speed or so. > > 9 knots of speed: > 1) The difference between a mono and tri gear. > 2) equals to 10% fuel savings when flying with equal speeds. > 10% fuel saving means: > 1) About 10% lower operational costs. > 2) About 5 Kg's (10 lbs) of weight saving for the same flying distance > because you need to carry less fuel. > 3) A 10% larger range on a full tank. > > > The airplane is 20=2C000 compromises flying in close formation....Choos e > > your changes wisely. > > If I wanted a stock airplane and didn't care about speed=2C I would > probably be flying a Cessna 152. > > Frans > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:10 PM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: fuselage repair The reason there is no foam at that location, is because that is where the cockpit module will get bonded in On the inside, which will add a lot more strength once it is installed ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:48 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Contact detail & Help Hi Karl, > I have been following your developments with great interest and I think > that the end result is just plain amazing. Thanks! > Now, top speed is very useful for testing drag improvements, but you > don't cruise at those speeds, do you ? When you are touring, what are > your preferred settings regarding speed, MP, rpm etc., and exactly what > is your fuel consumption then. I found the sweet spot of the aircraft is with 27 inch MAP, where it usually cruises with a speed somewhere between 120 and 130 KIAS, depending on C of G and some other obscure factors. Fuel consumption used to be 16 to 17 liters per hour, but I have observed this year that the fuel consumption has increased to 18 liters per hour. Maybe the carbs need an overhaul or so. RPM is usually between 4800 and 5000 RPM, this feels best for the engine. I have a two blade prop and at lower RPM's it feels less smooth. Of course actual settings depend on various circumstances. With a strong head wind we usually advance the throttle a bit, with a tail wind we enjoy the lower fuel consumption of a lower power setting. We fly 90% of our cruising with power between 26 and 28 inch. With higher power settings the fuel consumption goes up faster than the gain in speed. Other than in a car, a higher speed doesn't give any other feeling than a lower speed, it just gives the same sensation. One hour flying is still one hour flying. On a 3-hour trip I rather enjoy an additional 10 minutes flying and have a free meal than just cranking up the fuel consumption, paying more for less fun. AVGAS can be close to 3 Euro's per liter over here, so saving 10 liters on a trip can save enough money to have a dinner for two! ;-) I love telling friends that flying there isn't more expensive than getting there by car. > If the rest of us mortals wanted to implement some of your changes > without too much expense, what would you recommend ? There isn't much money involved actually. The radiator costs about 300 Euro's, the heat exchanger a bit less. You can do without the heat exchanger, I have been flying one summer with the stock oil radiator fed by a 2" Scat tube via a wedge diffuser. Apart from the long warm up time it was quite an improvement over the tandem setup. Best thing to do is to scrap the stock coolant radiator, dog house, duct and associated hardware and just install a thin radiator in a 45 degree angle in front of the exhaust and turbo. The main hurdle here is to shape a new underside of the cowling. You have to be brave enough to cut the dog house away, and then insert a block of blue foam and start cutting, rasping, sanding until you have the shape you desire. Anyone who wants to make a mold out of my cowling is welcome to do so, provided I'm allowed to use that mold to make a new light weight carbon cowling for myself. ;-) BTW I'm not the only one who devised something like this. See the attached picture. This is another configuration with a thin radiator in a 45 degree angle, although it lacks a cowl flap and heat exchanger for the oil. (Oil is cooled by a radiator, fed by a NASA duct on the port side, you can see it on the picture). Also this owner claims very good results with his setup on his 914 engine. The key really is to use a thin radiator and mount it at the belly so the "used" air can take the heat of the exhaust with it, and enjoy the benefits of a very sleek cowling, excellent cooling, low pressure losses, and minimal cooling drag. Anyway, my cooling design is not an exclusive invention of me but the combination of ideas and experiments of multiple Europa owners who believed that the cooling of the Europa could be improved other than by using draggy brute force solutions. > What is the part number for the > heat exchanger and exactly where did you install it ? See picture, taken from under the engine. The heat exchanger is mounted behind the engine. This was the first setup, with the stock coolant radiator, hence the configuration of the coolant hoses pointing downwards. In the current design the hose routing has been changed to accomodate for the thin belly radiator. If you really want to go this way, contact me privately for more info. One caveat though: this heat exchanger has very thin canals and is not compatible with Evans coolant due to its viscosity. I use it with 50/50 without problems. > It also had a very > small (8AH?) battery. I also have a small 8Ah battery, never needed anything more than that. But I have a second alternator (mounted on the vaccuum pad) so I don't need the battery as a backup during flight, I just need it for starting. 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