---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/05/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:33 AM - Re: Life rafts in the Europa (David Joyce) 2. 03:09 AM - Re: glide ratio XS Shortwing (David Joyce) 3. 03:26 AM - Re: Life rafts in the Europa (Frans Veldman) 4. 03:56 AM - Re: Life rafts in the Europa (David Joyce) 5. 09:50 AM - AW: glide ratio XS Shortwing (UVTREITH) 6. 12:15 PM - Re: Changing HT leads on Rotax UL914 (Jerry Rehn) 7. 01:13 PM - Re: Changing HT leads on Rotax UL914 (Alan Carter) 8. 03:10 PM - Re: Life rafts in the Europa (Bob Hitchcock) 9. 07:32 PM - First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY (Steve Eberhart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:04 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Life rafts in the Europa Bob, As you know I have flown overa lot of water and until family circumstances prevented it was thinking of flying to Oz so have given this a fair bit of thought. I own a liferaft and take one on long crossings when the water is cold only. Would not bother just going across the Channel in summer. There are two publications due out (one in the upcoming GASCO mag & the other in the upcoming Europa Flyer) which are based on a new study of the actual ditching statistics in the UK for last 3 decades) which show that the risks are nothing like the 'Experts' would have you believe - in fact if you take the trouble to wear a life jacket and carry a PLB there is only a 5% mortality risk. If you further take the trouble to fly the plane down to the water (rather trhan losing control & crashing) and avoid flying in a PA28 then there are no deaths attributable to ditching in UK aircraft in the last 28 years. You will have to wait for those publications but in the meantime I recommend the artcle byBertorelli at: www.equippedtosurvive.com/ditchingmyths.htm Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:34:07 +0100 Bob Hitchcock wrote: > > > Hi Gentlemen > > Must be getting more safety conscious as I get older, >having crossed the channel dozens of times every which >way, without life raft, only now am Iconsidering one. > > Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part >of the standard aircraft kit? Now there are new super >light, life rafts available, weighing in at only 6Kilos >e.g. Revere. Whereas the more traditional weigh in at 12 >to 15 kilo. This light weight raft option still allows me >to take full fuel and two suitcases > > Am tempted at 6 kilo to be out of the water in life >jacket and with PLB. > > Regards > > Bob > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:49 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: glide ratio XS Shortwing Bruno, It is easy enough to work out next time you go flying. Just throttle right back and measure height loss in a timed minute at speeds around 70 kts. Or you can get a rough answer by seeing what your rate of descent settles out at on the VSI for a given speed and knowing that 100s of feet per minute is much the same as knots you can divide your airspeed (say 70 kts) by the descent speed (say 550 fpm) to give 70/5.5 =12.7, that is a glide ratio of 1:12.7. You may feel that you need a stopped prop to give you a proper answer, but a stopped prop is thought to have slightly less drag than a slowly rotating one so the actual figures would be slightly better than your computations. For what its worth my XS mono does around 1:12 at speeds between 65 and 75 kts. The optimum glide angle is unaffected by weight, it just happens at a slightly higher speed if you are heavy. So the answer to the 2500ft Q is around 5.6 statute miles/4,9nm, further if you turn down wind. Having said all that my advice would be to forget about calculating such things and concentrate on flying the plane - there are a lot too many stall spin accidents in such circumstances! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:37:06 +0200 "UVTREITH" wrote: > Hi Family > > > > Is there some information about the glide ratio of the >Monowheel XS (and > TriGear) by maximum take off weight with or without >extended flaps? > > It would helpful to know by engine failure or other nice >happenings how far > I can fly (glide) with standing prop at say 2500 feet >before I kiss the > ground. > > I have checked all available leaflets, brochures etc, >but could find > nothing. > > > > Information about this would be very helpful. > > Nice and safe flights to all, > > > > Bruno > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:28 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Life rafts in the Europa On 07/04/2012 10:34 PM, Bob Hitchcock wrote: > Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part of the > standard aircraft kit? Ilona and I regularly fly long legs over water. This year we crossed the Skagerak to Norway, we went to Corsica via the French coast (one hour over water), went from there to Italy and then to Croatia (also one hour flight over water). So we have our share with flying over water. We own a life raft... but we didn't take it with us on these trips... Our experience is that it is impossible to take the life raft in front of the bagage area during flight (and the actual ditching). There is just not enough room to stow it or even hold it on the co-pilots lap without obstructing the control column. This implies you have to take it in the bagage area and tightly secure it there so it stays there during the deacceleration associated with ditching (you don't want to spoil a succesful ditching with a life raft knocking you unconscious from behind). Then there are two possible outcomes (not counting a total failure): the airplane flips over or is badly damaged and sinks to the bottom. In that case the chances to get the life raft out of the bagage area are slim. The other outcome is that the airplane survives the ditching, stays upright, and remains floating. In that case do you really need a life raft? The tail or wings are probably more comfortable to await rescue, and an airplane is easier to locate so it is a good idea to stay close to it anyway. Of course we have life jackets, and a PLB. We stay in contact with ATC all the time, announce our route in the flight plan, and preferably fly as high as possible (usually at 10.000 ft) when crossing the water so even if the engine totally quits we still have an endurance of 20 minutes, long enough to have the rescue team already on its way or even awaiting at the scene before we actually get into the water. (Not to mention the possibility to just glide to the coast; from 10.000 ft you have quite an interesting gliding range). For just crossing the canal I wouldn't bother at all. If you fly high enough you can make it to one of the shores from almost any point, and there are so many boats that it should always be possible to land near a vessel. They can either fish you out of the water or direct the coast guard to your exact position. You are probably rescued before you even have the chance to get into your life raft. Oh, and I have heard that the small life rafts are almost impossible to board, especially with clothes on, or when the water is cold (not to mention possible injuries). You might need to practise in a swimming pool to check how to get in and whether you are actually even capable to do so. In cold water your strenght is gone in a minute or so, so if you don't board fast you can forget about the life raft and use it only as a beacon. I'm actually considering selling the life raft. Frans ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:28 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Life rafts in the Europa Frans, a thoughtful reply as always, but I would take issue with you on a couple of points. Firstly my liferaft sits nicely on my side immediately behind the pilot's headrest where it is no more likely to hit me on the head than any of the other luggage and I do not feel it necessary to tie it down. Secondly planes sink for the most part with the Europa Classic being an honourable exception. PA 28s have been timed at sinking in between 2 and 3 minutes. I hope an XS would float longer but doubt very much that it would last more than prerhaps 10 or 15 mins. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:20:44 +0200 Frans Veldman wrote: > > > On 07/04/2012 10:34 PM, Bob Hitchcock wrote: > >> Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part >>of the >> standard aircraft kit? > > Ilona and I regularly fly long legs over water. This >year we crossed the > Skagerak to Norway, we went to Corsica via the French >coast (one hour > over water), went from there to Italy and then to >Croatia (also one hour > flight over water). So we have our share with flying >over water. > > We own a life raft... but we didn't take it with us on >these trips... > > Our experience is that it is impossible to take the life >raft in front > of the bagage area during flight (and the actual >ditching). There is > just not enough room to stow it or even hold it on the >co-pilots lap > without obstructing the control column. > This implies you have to take it in the bagage area and >tightly secure > it there so it stays there during the deacceleration >associated with > ditching (you don't want to spoil a succesful ditching >with a life raft > knocking you unconscious from behind). > Then there are two possible outcomes (not counting a >total failure): the > airplane flips over or is badly damaged and sinks to the >bottom. In that > case the chances to get the life raft out of the bagage >area are slim. > The other outcome is that the airplane survives the >ditching, stays > upright, and remains floating. In that case do you >really need a life > raft? The tail or wings are probably more comfortable to >await rescue, > and an airplane is easier to locate so it is a good idea >to stay close > to it anyway. > > Of course we have life jackets, and a PLB. We stay in >contact with ATC > all the time, announce our route in the flight plan, and >preferably fly > as high as possible (usually at 10.000 ft) when crossing >the water so > even if the engine totally quits we still have an >endurance of 20 > minutes, long enough to have the rescue team already on >its way or even > awaiting at the scene before we actually get into the >water. (Not to > mention the possibility to just glide to the coast; from >10.000 ft you > have quite an interesting gliding range). > >For just crossing the canal I wouldn't bother at all. If >you fly high > enough you can make it to one of the shores from almost >any point, and > there are so many boats that it should always be >possible to land near a > vessel. They can either fish you out of the water or >direct the coast > guard to your exact position. You are probably rescued >before you even > have the chance to get into your life raft. > > Oh, and I have heard that the small life rafts are >almost impossible to > board, especially with clothes on, or when the water is >cold (not to > mention possible injuries). You might need to practise >in a swimming > pool to check how to get in and whether you are actually >even capable to > do so. In cold water your strenght is gone in a minute >or so, so if you > don't board fast you can forget about the life raft and >use it only as a > beacon. > > I'm actually considering selling the life raft. > >Frans > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:29 AM PST US From: "UVTREITH" Subject: AW: Europa-List: glide ratio XS Shortwing Dear David, Many thanks for this clear explanation. 1:12 is a pretty good value. The glide ratio of our Robin R 3000 for example is 1:9, according to the flight manual. Best Regards, Bruno -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von David Joyce Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2012 12:08 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: glide ratio XS Shortwing Bruno, It is easy enough to work out next time you go flying. Just throttle right back and measure height loss in a timed minute at speeds around 70 kts. Or you can get a rough answer by seeing what your rate of descent settles out at on the VSI for a given speed and knowing that 100s of feet per minute is much the same as knots you can divide your airspeed (say 70 kts) by the descent speed (say 550 fpm) to give 70/5.5 =12.7, that is a glide ratio of 1:12.7. You may feel that you need a stopped prop to give you a proper answer, but a stopped prop is thought to have slightly less drag than a slowly rotating one so the actual figures would be slightly better than your computations. For what its worth my XS mono does around 1:12 at speeds between 65 and 75 kts. The optimum glide angle is unaffected by weight, it just happens at a slightly higher speed if you are heavy. So the answer to the 2500ft Q is around 5.6 statute miles/4,9nm, further if you turn down wind. Having said all that my advice would be to forget about calculating such things and concentrate on flying the plane - there are a lot too many stall spin accidents in such circumstances! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:37:06 +0200 "UVTREITH" wrote: > Hi Family > > > > Is there some information about the glide ratio of the >Monowheel XS (and > TriGear) by maximum take off weight with or without >extended flaps? > > It would helpful to know by engine failure or other nice >happenings how far > I can fly (glide) with standing prop at say 2500 feet >before I kiss the > ground. > > I have checked all available leaflets, brochures etc, >but could find > nothing. > > > > Information about this would be very helpful. > > Nice and safe flights to all, > > > > Bruno > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Changing HT leads on Rotax UL914 From: Jerry Rehn Alan I had a similar problem and went thru the trouble shooting as you did hoping it was a plug or wire. I narrowed it down to the electronic module itself. I sent the module to a Rotax service center and they tested it. The module was only firing two of the top 4 plugs. Bought a new module and all was well. $1,000 dollar fix, ouch! Jerry Sent from my iPad On Jul 4, 2012, at 3:48 PM, "Alan Carter" wrote: > > Hello ALL. > I think i should have stuck to Flight Simulators, Having just purchased G-PEGY Mag drop on left mag, top row sparking plugs , > Have 2 new caps, so tried 2 a side in turn, No Change in mag drop. > Started engine , run on left mag only, with Front top right lead off, engine sounded the same so think its this one is the problem. > All the bloody top plug leads go to the bottom side of the mag, ie (the electronic unit), So you can,t get to them to un screw the leads. > The complete unit is mounted on rubber cotton real, 3 of them, one at the back and two at the front. > You can-not get a spanner on them, i have tried all ways, purchased cranked spanners and ground it down to slip over nut , no good. > Finally i have managed to release the rear back mag mount and the inboard front cotton reals mount. > The outboard front rubber cotton real mount ,again no spanner will go in, > This rubber mounting fits over a cast stud which is part of the inlet housing. > Now i don,t know if the cotton real is just pushed over this stud pin, and has over the years corroded alloy and steel together, so NOW it won,t pull off. > Or if it is held with this inside bolt which i cannot get to. > Will put some grips on the real and give it a wriggle see if it moves. > Once this is released i can do the 59 second job of screwing the new leads on. > Just hope i can release it tomorrow . > Has any body done this job before, Help > Regards > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377292#377292 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:46 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Changing HT leads on Rotax UL914 From: "Alan Carter" Hello Jerry. i am not having much luck,i downloaded a diagram and found you have to remove part of the carburettor inlet manifold to gain access in replace the left mags Ht Leads. To change HT Leads should be a 15 minute job this has taken me well over 5 hrs , I have heard Ratax engines are good, im not impressed so far, as far as this components is designed its rubbish. I can,t believe just how long a job it been. The unit should be made removable by un doing say 4 bolts and lifting out to gain access,or even no removal at all job done in situ. Anyway i now have rough running on both mags, I will have another go at it tomorrow, Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377359#377359 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Life rafts in the Europa From: Bob Hitchcock > Hi David, Hi Frans Good information. Read the article. Have delayed my purchase, perhaps indefinitely. Thanks. Regards Bob ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:16 PM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Europa-List: First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY Our EAA 21 Club Fly-Ins now include Saturday Matinee at the Movies, with free popcorn, in the air-conditioned FBO conference room We will be preparing Hamburgers, Brats and NATHANS FAMOUS Hot Dogs for all that fly in. Just as New York's 21 Club has become known as the HAPPENING PLACE to be and be seen, EAA 21 Club is the place to be on the first Saturday of each month. When: July 7, August 4, September 1, October 6, 2012 10:00 AM till 2:00 PM Central time. Where: Henderson Kentucky City-County Airport (KEHR) If KEHR is VFR then we will be cooking the best Gourmet Burgers, Brats and Dogs this side of Sporty's. EAA 21 Club is expanding. Watch for the announcement about our new Third Saturday Fly-Ins at EVV ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.