Europa-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/09/12


Total Messages Posted: 21



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:01 AM - Re: Short field landings VP prop (Pete Lawless)
     2. 01:01 AM - Re: Short field landings VP prop (David Joyce)
     3. 01:41 AM - Re: fuel smell (houlihan)
     4. 01:56 AM - Birds and bees (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
     5. 02:10 AM - Rudder - Sprung? (Carl Meek)
     6. 02:48 AM - Re: Rudder - Sprung? (G-IANI)
     7. 03:03 AM - Re: Rudder - Sprung? (craig)
     8. 03:14 AM - Re: Rudder - Sprung? (Bob Harrison)
     9. 03:16 AM - Re: The Standard Warning Light (Remi Guerner)
    10. 03:26 AM - Re: Rudder - Sprung? (Carl Meek)
    11. 03:39 AM - For attention of all Europa Owners/pilots in UK and Europe. Wickenby(EGNW) 2013 (Bob Harrison)
    12. 03:51 AM - corrosion protection (fireflier)
    13. 04:31 AM - Tough luck! (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
    14. 04:38 AM - Re: corrosion protection (G-IANI)
    15. 04:59 AM - Sorry for duplicate message! (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
    16. 06:03 AM - Re: corrosion protection (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
    17. 07:06 AM - Re: Thin Stainless Steel (mr bill)
    18. 08:27 AM - Re: Thin Stainless Steel (Paul McAllister)
    19. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: corrosion protection (Alex Kaarsberg)
    20. 10:44 AM - Re: Thin Stainless Steel (Robert Borger)
    21. 12:15 PM - Re: Thin Stainless Steel (Paul McAllister)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:01:51 AM PST US
    From: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
    Subject: Short field landings VP prop
    Hi William I operate a 80hp mono off a 550 metre strip slightly humped. My prop is an NSI with just a simple pitch control (ie no constant speed unit). In full fine the 'slowing effect' is dramatic. Apart from the fact the aeroplane will descend at 120 kts indicated with the VSI on the stops at 2000 fpm, the effect on the float after round out is very noticeable. The only time our strip feels short is on a hot day at max weight with cross wind, then I do think another 20 hp would be good to have. Although in practice you are at 50 feet over the far hedge. Why not try the aeroplane as a mono? They are great and the ground handling is not scary if you get some training. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Bliss Sent: 08 July 2012 23:24 Subject: Europa-List: Short field landings VP prop I am wondering about the length of strip I intend to use for a mono classic (to be converted to tailwheel). 450yards - slight uphill. The figures look marginal. Does a variable pitch prop have any slowing affect when fully fine and idling? William Bliss -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:01:51 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Short field landings VP prop
    William, As long as the approaches are good (notresses or high fences to clear) 450 yds should be generally fine, although will need some thought if wind requires you to land downhill. Once on the ground you need not much more han 100 yds.There is a noticeable difference in the float and ground run between fine & coarse prop settings. However would certainly not recommend a strip that short to learn on. Get thoroughly comfortable somewhere else first. Happy landings, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:24:09 +0100 William Bliss <william@wbliss.co.uk> wrote: ><william@wbliss.co.uk> > > I am wondering about the length of strip I intend to use >for a mono classic (to be converted to tailwheel). >450yards - slight uphill. The figures look marginal. > > Does a variable pitch prop have any slowing affect when >fully fine and idling? > > William Bliss > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:41:09 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: fuel smell
    From: houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
    Hi Tim. He says it is a classic so unless it is modified to XS standard it would not have a "cobra" just a long permeable rubber hose. The comments about side slip makes me wonder if it is an exhaust issue rather than a smell from the hose. Tim H On 8 July 2012 23:40, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > William, > Look at the seal near the fuel intake cap. Make sure it has been sealed > completely between the plastic cobra and fuel cap body. > Otherwise the rubber pipe maybe allowing fuel to permeate through creating > the smell? > Cheers, > Tim > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > Ph 64 3 3515166 > Mob 0210640221 > > > On 9/07/2012, at 10:18 AM, William Bliss <william@wbliss.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > I had an enjoyable flight in a Europa today. The main drawback was that > the fuel smell was there - and became very strong and off putting when I > was trying sideslips. Tank was about half full. I do not think it can be > due to fumes permeating through the tank wall. When I had a look up inside > the the under - fuselage panel, I could not see any evidence of fuel > leakage. The tank did not look wrinkled or warped. Could there be a vent > leaking somewhere? Does an aluminium tank have the same problem? What I > really need is an idea of cost and time to fix it. > > > > I suspect this has been discussed before > > > > William Bliss > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:56:45 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Birds and bees
    Some weeks ago there were some thoughts on bird strikes and pitot tube covers on this list. Attached is an example of both, seen on an AN-2 at Bad W=F6ringshofen recently. Happy flying! Svein LN-SKJ


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:10:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Rudder - Sprung?
    From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
    Hi, Is the Europa supposed to have springs on the rudder pedals? Mine don't =AD they flop around. Doesn't cause a problem for the most part, but it can cause it to flap around in the wind, which can't do it any good. Regards, -Carl.


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:48:56 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Rudder - Sprung?
    Carl The rudder system should have a spring at the forward end of each cable (see CBM 22-8). As standard they are not very strong and most owners add some sort of additional stop (strap) for when the aircraft is parked. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek Sent: 09 July 2012 10:08 Subject: Europa-List: Rudder - Sprung? Hi, Is the Europa supposed to have springs on the rudder pedals? Mine don't - they flop around. Doesn't cause a problem for the most part, but it can cause it to flap around in the wind, which can't do it any good. Regards, -Carl.


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:03:29 AM PST US
    From: "craig" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
    Subject: Rudder - Sprung?
    There is supposed to be two springs at the end of the tunnel, right next to the engine mount on each side of the tunnel, they connect to the Arm the cable is attached to and connect to bolts at the end of the side of the foot well pulling forward to tension the cables. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:08 PM Subject: Europa-List: Rudder - Sprung? Hi, Is the Europa supposed to have springs on the rudder pedals? Mine don't - they flop around. Doesn't cause a problem for the most part, but it can cause it to flap around in the wind, which can't do it any good. Regards, -Carl. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:14:32 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Rudder - Sprung?
    Hi! Carl, Yes springs are light but centralising to neutral mounted to levers which make up part of the pedal pivot drive shafts in front of the central firewall. See figure 1 of General Arrangement of Rudder Pedals Sketch page 29-9 issue 1. Of course as one is pushed it returns the other being both attached to cables at the rudder end. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek Sent: 09 July 2012 10:08 Subject: Europa-List: Rudder - Sprung? Hi, Is the Europa supposed to have springs on the rudder pedals? Mine don't - they flop around. Doesn't cause a problem for the most part, but it can cause it to flap around in the wind, which can't do it any good. Regards, -Carl.


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:16:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: The Standard Warning Light
    From: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr>
    Hi Alan, I been there before. When I purchase my aircraft 11 years ago, the Flydat was showing "Service" because the previous owner had exceeded the max RPM after breaking his prop during a forced landing. The french Rotax distributor - Avirex- reset the unit at no charge. Then several years later and long after I installed a new engine, the Flydat started to show service again, while I was sure I had not exceeded any engine limit. I went to Rotax again and they told me this was before I had reached the TBO limit as set in the Flydat by the Rotax factory! At the time of manufacturing of my original engine and Flydat (around 1999) the TBO for the 914 was 600 hours, so this is what is entered in my Flydat. The unit was reset to zero time as it was the only way to erase the "Service" warning in that case. Unfortunately there is no way to change the TBO entered into the Flydat memory. That means I will have to go to Rotax every 600 hours to reset my unit in spite of having now an engine with a 1500 hours TBO. Now there is only one inconvenience -a major one- with flying with the unit showing "service": while the unit is displaying "service", i.e. during the first 30 seconds after starting the engine, you cannot check your oil pressure, as no parameter is displayed. Otherwise the Flydat is fully functional after the "service" warning is gone. The warning/alarm function is working normally as well. The reset is a 2 minutes work with the proper tooling connected to the jack on the front face of the unit, so there is no need to remove it from the panel. Check with your Rotax dealer if they do it for free. Hope that helps Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 912ULS, 950 hours total. ""the Flydat has been showing "Service" for some time, and is brought about by exceeding a parameter, say a prop over-speed, and only Rotax can Reset the unit at probably some extortionate cost . He has been flying with the unite like this for some years,, This is not good practice, and i am not sure if the warning lights do there pre start checks with Service showing,"" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377722#377722


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:26:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder - Sprung?
    From: Carl Meek <carlmeek@gmail.com>
    Thanks Bob, Mine work perfectly in flight, but flop about when your feet are not on them. Definitely no springs what so ever. Thanks, -Carl. From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@talktalk.net> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rudder - Sprung? Hi! Carl, Yes springs are light but centralising to neutral mounted to levers which make up part of the pedal pivot drive shafts in front of the central firewall. See figure 1 of General Arrangement of Rudder Pedals Sketch page 29-9 issue 1. Of course as one is pushed it returns the other being both attached to cables at the rudder end. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek Sent: 09 July 2012 10:08 Subject: Europa-List: Rudder - Sprung? Hi, Is the Europa supposed to have springs on the rudder pedals? Mine don't =AD they flop around. Doesn't cause a problem for the most part, but it can cause it to flap around in the wind, which can't do it any good. Regards, -Carl. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:39:10 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@talktalk.net>
    Subject: For attention of all Europa Owners/pilots in UK and Europe.
    Wickenby(EGNW) 2013 Hi! All prospective 2013 visitors to the the UK. I can advise you that Our 2013 Wickenby Wings and Wheels Air Show will be on June 15 and 16 . (Fathers Day again .....well let's face it They are "Big Boy's Toys" !!!!) Make a note in your Diaries , also that attention to having a "visiting aircraft escape slot" during the air show will be granted as per request . So now no excuses pertain .....just enter it up in your diaries please .....NOW. Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:51:41 AM PST US
    Subject: corrosion protection
    From: "fireflier" <fireflier@btinternet.com>
    What are the best options of providing corrosion protection to the steel parts CS05 and CS10? The parts I have in my kit don't have the gold zinc finish that they come with now, mine are black in appearance and I would say need some form of protection. My thoughts are to use hammerite paint, but would like to ask your opinions and what you used to protect these parts during the build process? Can I also ask if any of you provided corrosion protection to parts CS01,CS02, CS03, CS07 and CS08? I know these parts are aluminum and therefore shouldn't need to be protected. I look forward to hearing your comments Many thanks Donald -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377726#377726


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:31:45 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Tough luck!
    Some weeks ago there were some thoughts on pitot tube covers on this list, and some comments on bird strikes. Attached is an example of both, seen on an AN-2 at Bad W=F6ringshofen recently. Happy flying! Svein LN-SKJ


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:38:07 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: corrosion protection
    Donald Yes the steel work of early kits is oil blued, not plated as are the later kits. On my aircraft I painted them with Hammarite (the flat finish not the crackle) and this has lasted well. The aluminium parts can be treated by anodising, alocrom (a DIY anodising process), powder coating etc etc. This is a complex subject and I am working on an article for the web site on this topic. My experience is that, without any treatment, the parts you refer to are sufficiently well protected that they show no signs of corrosion after ten years. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:59:37 AM PST US
    From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
    Subject: Sorry for duplicate message!
    I have posted to similar messages just now. I realized that the attached jpg file in the first message I sent to the Matronics server was far too large compared to the guidelines, and thought it had been stopped because it did not appear on the list. Sorry! Svein LN-SKJ Do not archive


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:03:10 AM PST US
    From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: corrosion protection
    I would recommend anodising all alloy parts and powder coating steel parts (that don't need a precision fint into some other component). When powder coating, ask for bead blasting NOT grit blasting (avoids stress risers) and specify a corrosion proofing pre-tratment. The inside of tubing can be protected with liquid corrosion inhibitors like ACF50, Shell Ensis and others (after carfully cleaning out all post-powder coating detritus). The attached pdf gives you the UK specs for anodising (from your e-mail address I guess that you are located in the UK). Apart from anything else, well finished parts will increase the "saleability" of you aircraft when you finally want to move on. Nigel On 09/07/2012 11:49, fireflier wrote: > > What are the best options of providing corrosion protection to the steel parts CS05 and CS10? > > The parts I have in my kit don't have the gold zinc finish that they come with now, mine are black in appearance and I would say need some form of protection. My thoughts are to use hammerite paint, but would like to ask your opinions and what you used to protect these parts during the build process? > > Can I also ask if any of you provided corrosion protection to parts CS01,CS02, CS03, CS07 and CS08? I know these parts are aluminum and therefore shouldn't need to be protected. > > I look forward to hearing your comments > > Many thanks > Donald > > -------- > Fireflier > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377726#377726 > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:06:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thin Stainless Steel
    From: "mr bill" <w.stilley@sbcglobal.net>
    Speedy Metals in New Berlin Wi, they have 24 gauge (.024 thick). contact at ph 1-262-784-4140 or speedymetals.com. Bill at 02C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377759#377759


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:27:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thin Stainless Steel
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Hi Bud, Can you tell me where I can purchase the SS/Fiberfax material ? Thanks, Paul On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote: > ** > Paul, > For all the Europa needs here in the US, Aircraft Spruce carries what is > necessary. > Firewall: > For the Trigear or mono I use the .016 thickness stainless steel and a > Whitney punch to make the holes. At .016 it can be drilled but is hard on > the bits. > For the firewall in Trigear which goes behind the gear frame, I do not use > hard stainless sheet, I use the firewall 2000 kit. This is a sandwich > material of real stainless foil, firberfax (insulation and fireproof > material to replace asbestos) and on the other side a thin aluminum foil. > The gray sealant and adhesive works great. > > Do not use aluminum foil insulation material sold in home improvement > stores as from experience it bursts into flame on direct contact with > fire. It burns really well after the flame is removed. > > > Plate Damage to a wing or fuselage hardpoint; 1/8 inch 6061 T-6 is fine. > It's a bit harder to drill than 2024. But it doesn't corrode. > > > Wing Brackets; if I have to custom make a set I use again the 1/8 > inch 6061T-6. > > Regards, > Bud >


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:55:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: corrosion protection
    From: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsberg@terra.com.br>
    Although well impressed with powder coating in general, I would be reluctant to use it on anything important. I have spent more time than I care to remember, inspecting aircraft structures and parts and I am pretty certain that it not only would protect well, it would also keep any sign of corrosion well hidden until it is too late! Also, I have never seen it used on transport category aircraft and suspect this may well be the reason for that. Proper cleaning and priming/painting is the only really good solution. I used phosphate primer on all steel parts not cadmium plated already. Alu parts use zinc chromate primer. Again, as in grp work, clean clean and clean, then protect well. Brgds, Alex, kit 529 Em 09/07/2012, s 17:00, "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> escreveu: > I would recommend anodising all alloy parts and powder coating steel parts (that don't need a precision fint into some other component). When powder coating, ask for bead blasting NOT grit blasting (avoids stress risers) and specify a corrosion proofing pre-tratment. The inside of tubing can be protected with liquid corrosion inhibitors like ACF50, Shell Ensis and others (after carfully cleaning out all post-powder coating detritus). > The attached pdf gives you the UK specs for anodising (from your e-mail address I guess that you are located in the UK). > Apart from anything else, well finished parts will increase the "saleability" of you aircraft when you finally want to move on. > > Nigel > > On 09/07/2012 11:49, fireflier wrote: >> >> What are the best options of providing corrosion protection to the steel parts CS05 and CS10? >> >> The parts I have in my kit don't have the gold zinc finish that they come with now, mine are black in appearance and I would say need some form of protection. My thoughts are to use hammerite paint, but would like to ask your opinions and what you used to protect these parts during the build process? >> >> Can I also ask if any of you provided corrosion protection to parts CS01,CS02, CS03, CS07 and CS08? I know these parts are aluminum and therefore shouldn't need to be protected. >> >> I look forward to hearing your comments >> >> Many thanks >> Donald >> >> -------- >> Fireflier >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377726#377726 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > <120709 - Anodising.pdf>


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:44:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thin Stainless Steel
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Paul, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jul 9, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: Hi Bud, Can you tell me where I can purchase the SS/Fiberfax material ? Thanks, Paul On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote: Paul, For all the Europa needs here in the US, Aircraft Spruce carries what is necessary. Firewall: For the Trigear or mono I use the .016 thickness stainless steel and a Whitney punch to make the holes. At .016 it can be drilled but is hard on the bits. For the firewall in Trigear which goes behind the gear frame, I do not use hard stainless sheet, I use the firewall 2000 kit. This is a sandwich material of real stainless foil, firberfax (insulation and fireproof material to replace asbestos) and on the other side a thin aluminum foil. The gray sealant and adhesive works great. Do not use aluminum foil insulation material sold in home improvement stores as from experience it bursts into flame on direct contact with fire. It burns really well after the flame is removed. Plate Damage to a wing or fuselage hardpoint; 1/8 inch 6061 T-6 is fine. It's a bit harder to drill than 2024. But it doesn't corrode. Wing Brackets; if I have to custom make a set I use again the 1/8 inch 6061T-6. Regards, Bud


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:15:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thin Stainless Steel
    From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
    Bob, Thanks the link. I had assumed that firewall 2000 referred to Europa's new firewall kit... duh ! do not archive On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote: > Paul, > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com >




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