Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Re: Fuel smell and puncture (roddyeuropa@aol.com)
2. 08:19 AM - Firesleeve (Europaul383)
3. 08:50 AM - Possible New Build (Steve Robinson)
4. 08:59 AM - Re: Firesleeve (Peter Harrod)
5. 09:45 AM - SV: Cockpit cover - Any colour as long as it's white (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
6. 09:55 AM - Re: Possible New Build (Rowland Carson)
7. 01:30 PM - Re: Possible New Build (craig)
8. 02:38 PM - Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made (Neville Eyre)
9. 02:53 PM - Re: Possible New Build (G-IANI)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel smell and puncture |
I suspect that a lot of fuel smells are due to bigger failures than just fu
el seepage through rubber. I have seen one europa where the breather had co
me off the stub, and I traced my fuel smell to a torn gasket on the fuel se
nder unit. I found it by attaching a pressure gauge to the tank and pumping
a small amount of compressed air into the tank - about 2 psi. the pressure
dropped immediately and I could hear where the air was escaping from. Gask
et replaced - fuel smell gone! If you try this dont put more than a minimal
amount of compressed air into the tank or you could distort/damage it.
Roddy
G-IKRK
-----Original Message-----
From: G-IANI <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 9:08
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel smell and puncture
William
I have found that the main source of the fuel smell is the connection to th
e
ank breather pipe on three aircraft. The machined aluminium fitting does
ot seal to the plastic pipe even if done up tight. Due to the upturn
nside the tank, the vent pipe creates a "U" and fuel stays in the pipe and
he smell can persist for some days.
The best solution I have found is to replace this length of plastic pipe
ith rubber. The correct size rubber does seal onto the fitting with a
easonably tensioned clip.
Europa have tires, inner tubes and brake pads available.
an Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
uropa Club Mods Specialist
-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
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Message 2
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Anybody know what size firesleeve to use for a 912S installation in an XS Mono...?
Aeroquip firesleeve comes to fit 303 hose or 601 hose anybody know what hose is
shipped as standard on the XS FWF and 912S? Also what size inner diameter of
firesleeve?
There is a table at http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=C00YH6JXH but I do not have the engine or fuel hoses here, so cannot measure them...
Any help or suggestions gratefully received.
Cheers
Paul
383
G-PLPM, XS Mono, 912S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378636#378636
Message 3
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| Subject: | Possible New Build |
Hi, I'm seriously thinking about building a Europa XS with my two sons,
near Newbury, UK.
I would like to see a build in progress if possible to see where the
pitfalls might be, workshop considerations, talk through what's involved
etc.
I will try and get to the LAA sywell rally at the end of august too before
we take the plunge..
Any current builds in the south UK willing to open their doors to us for an
afternoon?
Steve.
Message 4
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I used AE 102-10 Fire Sleeve 5/8" 301140 and AE 102-9 9/16" 303144 from Airworld(UK)
for my XS
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cockpit cover - Any colour as long as it's white |
Rob,
With respect, I wish to comment some of your statements:
>What these measurements do not tell us is how much of the sun's energy is
reflected from the outer surface of the cockpit covers, only what heat is
transferred by conduction through the cover.<
What is of interest is not what is reflected (per se), but what is
transferred by conduction. The temperature on the underside (shadow side) of
the material was measured, and this gives indeed a good indication of the
heat transferred - the higher the temperature, the more heat is transferred.
Whether the heat that reaches the underside is a result of low reflection
from the outside surface or high conductivity (low insulation) in the
material is irrelevant.
>The metallic grey material is probably a very good reflector of radiant
energy in the part of the spectrum most important for reducing the
temperature within the cockpit.<
If this is the case, the material must have a very high conductivity/low
insulation, since it gets really warm on the underside, meaning that the
energy not reflected passes easily through the material. The cover
manufacturer stated the following in an e-mail to me yesterday: "These
covers will reflect UV radiation, but this is not the only way that heat is
tranferred. Conduction is likely to be a major factor. We have not designed
a product to protect and insulate from the heat of the sun (insulation would
surely be needed outside the glass)."
>It is erroneous to conclude that "the metallic-grey material is totally
unsuitable for sun heat protection" because cockpit air temperature is not a
function of the temperature of the heat shield, and cockpit air temperature
was not measured. At the temperatures involved, radiant heat transfer is
inconsequential so therefore the measured temperature on the interior side
of the cover material is insignificant and irrelevant<
How can cockpit air temperature NOT be a function of the temperature on the
inside of the cover? Consider the following - case 1: The entire aircraft
is covered, and the temperature on the inside of the total cover is 58.7
degr. C - constant over time. When the cockpit air temp has stabilized, it
will be 58.7 degr C. Case 2: The inside of the total cover is 38.7 degr C.
When the cockpit air temp has stabilized, it will be 38.7 degr C. In the
real case, where parts of the structure surrounding the cockpit are not
covered, the inside air temperature will be different from the temperature
on the inside of the cover. However, the higher the cover inside
temperature is, the higher the cockpit temperature gets. Further, the
structure (e.g. fuselage skin) is in direct contact with the underside of
the cover, and I can assure you that the white skin under the cover was
significantly hotter than the white skin exposed to the sun, which felt cool
in comparison.
>Now, having said that the conclusion was erroneous I should point out that
the cover in question may indeed be a rather poor means of reducing the
cockpit temperature. We simply do not know from the available information.
As with academic studies, here we must conclude that further research is
necessary. <
Ref. the above quote from the manufacturer with respect to the cover not
being suitable for heat reduction. There is, however, another manufacturer
who claims to have better suited material (ref. Gerry's posting on Monday).
I have asked for a sample of that material, and will make a comparison of
the underside temp of that and the metallic grey that I presently have.
The best practical heat protection of the cockpit is to cover the windows on
the inside by auto heat shield (the foam layer offers effective insulation
low conductivity). The problem arises when you also need to cover the
cockpit and engine top (ref. air intake location for 912 UL/ 912 ULS)
against rain.
If the white cover shows lower temperature on the underside than the
metallic-grey cover, this is either due to different radiant heat reflection
or different conductivity through the fabric, or a combination of both. How
much is actually caused by one or the other is beyond the scope of my
interest in this subject - I only wish to find a lightweight, water tight
cover that is noticeably better than the metallic-grey that I now have.
White colour is in all likelihood better than metallic grey.
On a sunny day, check on cars in a parking lot: White is definitely coolest
to the touch (most heat reflection = least soaking up of heat into the car
body metal). Yellow, green, grey, red, blue: Much hotter. Silver
metallic: Almost as bad as any of the darker colours. Reason according to
paint manufacturer: The special "sheen" of metallic paint is created by
particles reflecting light in different, arbitrary directions - also down
towards the surface on which it is painted. This is why our aircraft made
of epoxy must not be painted silver metallic, while aircraft (and cars) made
of polyester may have this type of paint. I am not saying that the
"metallic" grey cover has the same properties as silver metallic paint, but
grey is still not white.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Possible New Build |
On 18 Jul 2012, at 16:49, Steve Robinson wrote:
> Hi, I'm seriously thinking about building a Europa XS with my two sons, near
Newbury, UK.
> I would like to see a build in progress if possible to see where the pitfalls
might be, workshop considerations, talk through what's involved etc.
>
> I will try and get to the LAA sywell rally at the end of august too before we
take the plunge..
>
> Any current builds in the south UK willing to open their doors to us for an afternoon?
> Steve.
Steve - you're welcome to visit my (very slowly progressing) build in Cheltenham.
Contact me direct if you want to take it further.
A year's membership of The Europa Club <http://www.theeuropaclub.org> would be worthwhile to help you make up your mind, too!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
Message 7
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| Subject: | Possible New Build |
Steve, stop thinking and start doing. You won't regret it, once you are
close to finished. One thing, don't get too concerned about how much
Space you have to work in, sure a nice big factory or workshop is great but
nothing beats building your baby in a single car garage. Virtually
All of my build has been done in the confines of a single car garage, and at
a bit over 4 years I am getting ready to paint my baby.
Regards
Craig (in Australia, which is a bit far for you to come visit, although I
have had one UK builder come see me)
Do not archive
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Robinson
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:50 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Possible New Build
Hi, I'm seriously thinking about building a Europa XS with my two sons, near
Newbury, UK.
I would like to see a build in progress if possible to see where the
pitfalls might be, workshop considerations, talk through what's involved
etc.
I will try and get to the LAA sywell rally at the end of august too before
we take the plunge..
Any current builds in the south UK willing to open their doors to us for an
afternoon?
Steve.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made |
Is there someone with a Classic I can trial fit the fuel filler pipe to?
Just pop off your rubber hose,offer the pipe up and replace the rubber.
I will be at Tatenhill next monday if the weather is good,[ back up days tu
es / wed], doing a couple of Permit Renewal Inspections, if anyone wants to
pop along for a chat / pie.
The original pipe bender chap has got a bit greedy,but found another place
just down the road who think they can help,and the chap looking at the job
turns out to be the C.O. of the ATC Squadron I have been teaching the Cade
ts to fly control line planes at, small world ?
So, see a huge fleet of Europa's at Tatenhill?
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>
Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made
Update chaps,
2nd prototype to hand now, who wants to see if it fits [ the Classic I had
to hand has gone from my Workshop] This one is final spec' material, good t
o go.
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>
Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made
Right, update;
I gave up on the three manufacturers I asked to bid on before, no wonder al
l the work is going to China !
Found someone [ a mate] to do the job, I need to know is how many are inter
ested in this first batch.
I intend to keep a bunch in stock later, as ALL Classic Europa's are going
to need one sooner or later, I have inspected 3 recently for Permit Renewal
, all getting close to being too far gone.
Europa are not going to get any more rubber hoses made.
The pipes will be from 6023 [ heat treated to T3 condition after bending in
the T 0 state] with rolled beads on each end. Tags on both ends to ground
[ earth] to filler cap and ground circuit.
Will be a ''new'' Mod with the LAA as we can't use Franks Mod if there is t
he SLIGHTEST deviation.Frank used 6063 T6 [ YES T6 !] How did he bend that
? So different material spec needs a new Mod ! ?
Will be a complete Kit with all connecting hoses, clips, wire etc.....
I will have a firm price in a week or so, best guess at the moment for the
pipe only is about =C2=A3115 / =C2=A3120, but that depends on the number ?
Looking at the cost of the other items at the moment.
Best to ship [ especially to overseas] in multiples, as they will be big [
odd shape] can't be folded up like the rubber ones were ! ? [ mind, I expec
t Maureen would have tried !]
So, who wants one in about 3 to 4 weeks ?
I have had a pipe made from gash steel to trial fit, [ got 3 Europa's to c
heck with, all slightly different !] if / when I get the go ahead from enou
gh of you I will be ready to do sets for real in the alloy.
Looks like a win / win situation going to alloy, wont get the stink through
the poor quality rubber, and it will be lighter. Also got a ''cunning plan
'' to aid faster filling, will report back on that later.
So Guys, show me your money !
Nev
-----Original Message-----
From: Neville Eyre <neveyre@aol.co.uk>
Sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:47
Subject: Re: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made
I started conversations with 3 potential manufactures a while back, confess
I have let it slip, will look back into it this week and report back.
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme bird <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
Sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:33
Subject: Europa-List: batch of classic fuel filler pipes being made
I am thinking of getting a batch of aluminum fuel filler pipes made for the
lassic to replace the rubber trunk. Frank Mycroft sent me a drawing and has
had
he mod approved ( it may be with Ian as well).
a) does anyone else want one making, they would be cheaper in a batch
) I can enquire locally but pointers as to where they could be made in the
UK
ould be helpful (50mm x 1.5 pipe)
Regards Graeme
--------
raeme Bird
-UMPY
ono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Warp drive FP
ust competed conversion to type
(at)gdbmk.co.uk
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367709#367709
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-= - The Europa-List Email Forum -
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Possible New Build |
Steve
I am the engineering specialist for the Europa Club and work extensively
with the Company and the LAA. At present I have a Europa here which is very
near completion and about to go to the painters. This is the third I have
built in a slightly suitably modified double garage.
You would be very welcome to come over and spend a couple of hours
discussing the implications of a build.
We live in Woking, Surrey so not too far from you.
I am available most days. If you would like to visit please e-mail or call
01483 714096 to arrange a time.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Robinson
Sent: 18 July 2012 16:50
Subject: Europa-List: Possible New Build
Hi, I'm seriously thinking about building a Europa XS with my two sons, near
Newbury, UK.
I would like to see a build in progress if possible to see where the
pitfalls might be, workshop considerations, talk through what's involved
etc.
I will try and get to the LAA sywell rally at the end of august too before
we take the plunge..
Any current builds in the south UK willing to open their doors to us for an
afternoon?
Steve.
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