---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/01/12: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - Re: Re: cameras and mounting (mau11) 2. 12:27 AM - Re: cameras and mounting (Gerry Holland) 3. 01:32 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Richard Lamprey) 4. 03:12 AM - Re: door weather seals (Troy Maynor) 5. 04:39 AM - Re: cameras and mounting (Robert Borger) 6. 08:36 AM - How will it work out with a mono if history repeats itself? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 7. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Proposal fuel system enhancement for mogas (Neville Eyre) 8. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (Frans Veldman) 9. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Frans Veldman) 10. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 11. 03:34 PM - AN-2 (Raimo Toivio) 12. 03:54 PM - Re: AN-2 (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 13. 04:02 PM - Re: AN-2 (Jeff) 14. 04:18 PM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio) 15. 04:31 PM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio) 16. 05:15 PM - Re: AN-2 (Robert Borger) 17. 05:37 PM - Re: AN-2 (John O'Connor) 18. 06:06 PM - Re: AN-2 (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 19. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 20. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 AM PST US From: mau11 Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: cameras and mounting SGkgR3JhZW1lLA0KSSB1c2Ugbm93IGEgR29wcm8gc2luY2UgMyB5ZWFycyBpbnRvIHRoZSBjb2Nr cGl0Lg0KT24gbXkgZmlyc3QgZml4YXRpb24gSSBoYXZlIG1hbnkgdmlicmF0aW9ucywgYW5kIHRo ZSBtb3ZpZXMgYXJlIHZlcnkgYmFkLg0KQWZ0ZXIsIEkgc3R1ZGllZCBhIG5ldyBmaXhhdGlvbiBz eXN0ZW0gYW5kIHRoZSB2aWJyYXRpb25zIGFyZSBzdG9wcGVkLCBtb3ZpZXMgYXJlIHN0YWJsZSBh 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TGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0 aW9uDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PQ= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:42 AM PST US From: Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Europa-List: cameras and mounting A camera worth looking at is the Contour Roam or N-Flight Cam. The N-Flight Cam has a lens filter that reduces Prop blur very well and also an inline jack plug/socket to record audio as in headsets. It does cost $500. A 'Lite' version is available without Lens filtering and that is around $300. In truth the lens filter is a Neutral Density ND 4.0 filter and that can be purchased for a few dollars from Amazon. You'll also need a 31mm to 37mm lens converter at about $5 or the Contour Lens kit at $25. Prop blur is present in most of the POV Cameras. Neutral density filters can reduce that very effectively with only small change in film appearance. The top of the range N-Flight has GPS integral so film 'position' recorded. It also can be blue toothed to iPhone as a Controller and viewer. Information: http://www.nflightcam.com/ http://contour.com/ Hope that helps. Gerry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:29 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Why? From: "Richard Lamprey" Frans, In Kenya I operate my Europa classic with 912UL (ground-adjustable warpdrive prop) from a strip at 5,500' elevation, often when airtemp is around 27-30C, therefore density altitude is about 8500'. I use mogas unleaded (without ethanol), which is rated at 93 Octane. My carb lines under the cowling are all shielded with orange fire-sleave hose. I usually cruise at 8500-10500' indicated (density altitude up to 13,000') Sometimes, after flight and long taxi back to hangar, it runs a little rough due I think to vapour, and only once, on a very long taxi and hold, did it really start to splutter and the port-side carb was boiling (bubbling up into the equalizer pipe). On warm up from cold start, the temps have always stabilized at 70C for coolant temp, and 60 C for oil temp, and takeoff has been fine. I have had other problems with rough running or lack of power, which I have traced to other things... one throttle cable not running straight and smooth (scary, I replaced the throttle box)... and insect-blocked equalizer pipe from carb to plenum (which caused the carb to overflow), but nothing in flight I can trace to vapour locking. For me, take-off at 4000' is a luxury, with 5Y-LRY climbing out like a homesick angel... Best Richard Kenya , a long taXI-BACK I only recall once having a problem with vapour locking, after long taxi. when it ran a little rough Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379776#379776 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: door weather seals From: "Troy Maynor" Hello Bill, I bought mine from McMaster Carr. The early classic factory supplied was too big and closing the doors really stressed out the latches, hinges, and all the frame. The size I ended up with worked great to seal and allows doors to be latched easily. I may be able to research the exact number I used when I get home. Could take a couple days before I can do it but I'm sure I have it somewhere in my files. Troy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379777#379777 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: cameras and mounting From: Robert Borger Michel, I am very interested in your mounting. Looking forward to those pictures. Thanks in advance! Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Aug 1, 2012, at 1:52 AM, mau11 wrote: Hi Graeme, I use now a Gopro since 3 years into the cockpit. On my first fixation I have many vibrations, and the movies are very bad. After, I studied a new fixation system and the vibrations are stopped, movies are stable and very good. I give to you pictures of my installation to morrow. This advantage is to manage the Gopro in flight, and also the fixation have capability to rotate left and right at your convenience. Michel AUVRAY Builder 145 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:29 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: How will it work out with a mono if history repeats itself? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Group I'm wondering how things would work out if the next time history repeats itself, if the airplane of choice is a Europa mono?: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=550FC20DBDDB521D!983&authkey=!AEa1mQIOz2RvRok Are there any new owners of a Mono who have not yet flown their bird who are willing to disconnect their rudder cables before they go flying, go flying around for a week and report back to us to let us how things went? Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Proposal fuel system enhancement for mogas From: Neville Eyre Jonathon's point 3] No chance of that where he lives [Scotland], the natives would never put an ything in fuel that could be drunk ! -----Original Message----- From: jonathanmilbank Sent: Tue, Jul 31, 2012 11:10 pm Subject: Europa-List: Re: Proposal fuel system enhancement for mogas > An apposite saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it !" The UK CAA advice for use of mogas has worked very well for me for more tha n a ecade: 1) Don't fly above 6000 ft p.a. with mogas 2) Don't fly if the temperature of fuel inside the tank exceeds 20C 3) Don't use mogas if alcohol can be detected in it ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379735#379735 -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:21 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? Hallo Jim & Heather, > So we're pretty confident the problem is not MOGAS. Ok, I got multiple messages like this. Because of these messages I set aside my vapor lock assumption and I did some additional investigations. Fuel filters look fine. Fuel flow looks OK (on both individual pumps). Fuel pressure holds ok on full power. However... During flight testing I could reproduce the problem (@4000 ft, 25C), if I go to idle, wait a few seconds, and then (smoothly) open the throttle up to 115% power. What happens then is that the fuel pressure drops for half a second, the engine falls back in power, and then the pressure recovers and the engine runs fine, and keeps running fine at full power as long as I want, even on just one fuel pump. Pressure is then rock stable at 3.8 psi, exactly the Rotax recommended value. The short drop in fuel pressure is odd. I can't recall that I have seen that before. (Well, not as much. I have always seen a slight movement of the needle with significant power changes, but can't remember having seen such a sharp drop, but maybe I don't remember it correctly). It doesn't matter whether I have both pumps on or only one. On idle it is 3.8 psi. on full power it is 3.8 psi, but during the transition I see it fall back to 2 psi and then come up again. If it would be a blocked filter then the fuel pressure should permanently drop I think. And it should make a difference with one or both pumps on. But it doesn't. For the 914, the fuel pumps always have full flow. What the engine doesn't consume is returned to the tank. From the pumps perspective, nothing changes with different power settings. The only plausible thing I can come up with, is that the fuel pressure regulator is "sticky", i.e. needs to overcome some friction befor its valve adapts to a changed pressure demand. So, if the turbo kicks in, the airbox pressure increases so the fuel pressure has to follow. If the fuel pressure doesn't follow I see a drop on my differential gauge and the carbs starve for fuel. Once the pressure is restored the engine runs fine on full power. What I would expect though is a similar (but reversed) excursion from full power to idle, i.e. a momentary overshoot of fuel pressure. But this doesn't happen. I don't understand this. So, what I would like to know: 1) Does anyone recognise these symptoms? 2) Has anyone ever had a faulty fuel pressure regulator? 3) Is it normal do see a momentary drop in fuel pressure when going from idle to full power? (I'm not slamming the throttle open, but take one second or so, to give carbs, prop, etc. some time to adapt). 4) If indeed this is not normal but it is not the pressure regulator, what else could it be? Any ideas? At least the problem seems altitude/temperature related, getting worse with higher altitudes/higher temperatures. Thanks everyone for convincing me that it could be something else than vapor lock! Frans ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:06 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Why? On 08/01/2012 02:42 AM, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > Forgot to mention, you talk of differential fuel pressure of 6 psi. > Rotax specifies differential fuel pressure to be 3.63 psi nominal, > 5.08 psi max and 2.18 psi min. You are right. My fuel pressure is normally 3.8. Only on idle with both pumps on the fuel pressure goes to 5.1 but falls back to 3.8 if the engine starts to consume some more fuel. Frans ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Frans You mention you checked fuel flow. Did you check fuel flow to the carbs with the fuel pressure regulator cheated to thinking it's at ~ 18K? Did you follow Rotax and replace the float pivot pins> Did you replace the fuel pressure regulator if it was one of suspect performance as per Rotax? Did you check your fuel tank vent for being free and clear? Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:33 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: AN-2 Hi All! Wish us luck =93 we really need it now: My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 =93 the biggest single piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have purchased one (model =9CVIP /Safari=9D). My plan is to fly it home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 euros but that is a different story. Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim. What are we going to do with our Antonov? That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to enjoy our plan literally if you like. Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell... A thought flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low and slow with my family omboard makes me thrilled or mad you can believe. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Raimo Good luck on your sojourn. Please entertain an "idiot", what is a : "model “VIP /Safari” A car, boat, aeroplane or other? Whatever it is, I suspect it will not fit in the back of a Europa with 4 souls onboard. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:25 PM PST US From: Jeff Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, I've had the pleasure of seeing/riding in the old Antonov. What a magnificent bird. You'll love her... If you ever need crew, I'd be happy to volunteer... :) Jeff - Baby Blue On 8/1/2012 5:33 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Hi All! > Wish us luck we really need it now: > My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get > during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest single > piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because > we have purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it home > direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means > 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take > time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it > happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 > euros but that is a different story. > Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics; > last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim. > What are we going to do with our Antonov? > That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. > All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to > enjoy our plan*literally* if you like. > Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell... > A thought /flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low > and slow with my family omboard/ makes me thrilled or mad you can believe. > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > Europa A2A-ala2OK > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 > > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:55 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Dear Ron AN-2 is an aircraft, not a boat or a car. Watch the attached photo in the earlier message!. =9CVIP /Safari=9D is telling what kind of interior there is. That means for example beds for four people and luxury leather seats with full entertainment sets etc. Other models are =9Cagriculture=9D, =9Cpassenger (up to 20)=9D, =9Cgargo=9D, =9Cwater operations=9D, =9Cmilitary=9D, =9Chospital=9D etc. The lenght of this aircraft is 13 metres (40 feet) , it is over 19 metres (60 feet) wide and 5,5 high (17 feet). It has a single 1000 hp radial engine. It is definetely not possible to fit in my Europa=C2=B4s back seats because my daughters are there. That is why we are flying to Hungary by Ryanair. That is why I have to fly AN-2 back home by my-self. And that is why I asked you to wish me luck... Raimo From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 1:53 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Hi Raimo Good luck on your sojourn. Please entertain an "idiot", what is a : "model =9CVIP /Safari=9D A car, boat, aeroplane or other? Whatever it is, I suspect it will not fit in the back of a Europa with 4 souls onboard. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:01 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Jeff welcome immediately: we have on Sunday (Monday) at least 8 free seats for individuals who would like to experience an old fashion adventure through an old Europe to Finland. I am going to fly low and slow, w/o any electronics like GPS or iPad...schedule your flight to Budapest - I have a shuttle bus waiting there. Look an attachment; that man visited our home couple of the years ago. Landing right ahead to the farmers field 300 metres /1000 feets behind our home. He is (was) Michael Jackson=C2=B4s helicopter pilot. Strange world. That plane is actually more a helicopter than an aeroplane. Stall speed around 16-20 knots. And engine fire up process is unforgetable. Cheers, Raimo -----Alkuper=C3=A4inen viesti----- From: Jeff Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:01 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, I've had the pleasure of seeing/riding in the old Antonov. What a magnificent bird. You'll love her... If you ever need crew, I'd be happy to volunteer... :) Jeff - Baby Blue On 8/1/2012 5:33 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Hi All! > Wish us luck =93 we really need it now: > My family is flying to Budapest Hungary > tomorrow. My plan is to get > during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov > AN-2 =93 the biggest single > piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 > kgs. I need it because > we have purchased one (model =9CVIP /Safari=9D). My > plan is to fly it home > direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia > and Estonia. That means > 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 > euros). It will take > time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My > Europa would do it > happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 > liters 98E autofuel = 200 > euros but that is a different story. > Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World > Championship Aerobatics; > last day is Saturday with giant airshow they > claim. > What are we going to do with our Antonov? > That will be sensation and we will publish it > asap. > All what I can say today is that all of you will > get a possibility to > enjoy our plan*literally* if you like. > Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret > but he will not tell... > A thought /flying a Russian giant with a star > engine through Europa low > and slow with my family omboard/ makes me > thrilled or mad you can believe. > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > Europa A2A-ala2OK > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 > > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 From: Robert Borger Raimo, AWESOME!!! The worlds largest biplane and you will have, one you lucky guy! Best of luck on your low & slow flight back to Finland. Post pictures when you can. I really want to see the interior. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: Jeff welcome immediately: we have on Sunday (Monday) at least 8 free seats for individuals who would like to experience an old fashion adventure through an old Europe to Finland. I am going to fly low and slow, w/o any electronics like GPS or iPad...schedule your flight to Budapest - I have a shuttle bus waiting there. Look an attachment; that man visited our home couple of the years ago. Landing right ahead to the farmers field 300 metres /1000 feets behind our home. He is (was) Michael Jacksons helicopter pilot. Strange world. That plane is actually more a helicopter than an aeroplane. Stall speed around 16-20 knots. And engine fire up process is unforgetable. Cheers, Raimo -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Jeff Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:01 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, I've had the pleasure of seeing/riding in the old Antonov. What a magnificent bird. You'll love her... If you ever need crew, I'd be happy to volunteer... :) Jeff - Baby Blue On 8/1/2012 5:33 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Hi All! > Wish us luck we really need it now: > My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get > during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest single > piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because > we have purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it home > direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means > 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take > time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it > happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 > euros but that is a different story. > Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics; > last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim. > What are we going to do with our Antonov? > That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. > All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to > enjoy our plan*literally* if you like. > Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell... > A thought /flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low > and slow with my family omboard/ makes me thrilled or mad you can believe. > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > Europa A2A-ala2OK > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 > > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:22 PM PST US From: "John O'Connor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 On 02/08/12 11:18, Raimo Toivio wrote: > ... That is why we are flying to > Hungary by Ryanair. ... > > And that is why I asked you to wish me luck... Good luck with Ryanair. :) (Only kidding - they are much better than most folks will credit.) John ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Raimo OK got it! I only wish I was as lucky of an "idiot" as you! I once saw a race between a 15 speed bicycle and a AN-2 down the runway @ Sussex New Jersey USA, the AN-2 lost and there was not much wind! I think if perhaps you got chummy with a friendly "black hole", you may in fact be able to squeeze an AN-2 in the back of your Europa. What an experience, enjoy. Ron Parigoris> > AN-2 is an aircraft, not a boat or a car. Watch the attached photo in the > earlier message!. €œVIP /Safari€ is telling what kind of interior there > is. That means for example beds for four people and luxury leather seats > with full entertainment sets etc. Other models are €œagriculture€, > €œpassenger (up to 20)€, €œgargo€, €œwater operations€, > €œmilitary€, €œhospital€ etc. > > The lenght of this aircraft is 13 metres (40 feet) , it is over 19 metres > (60 feet) wide and 5,5 high (17 feet). It has a single 1000 hp radial > engine. It is definetely not possible to fit in my Europas back seats > because my daughters are there. That is why we are flying to Hungary by > Ryanair. That is why I have to fly AN-2 back home by my-self. > > And that is why I asked you to wish me luck.. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:28 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: europa-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Europa-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Europa-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Europa-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:29 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.