Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - Re: AN-2 (David Joyce)
2. 02:45 AM - Re: AN-2 (G-IANI)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio)
4. 04:28 AM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio)
5. 05:48 AM - Re: cameras and mounting (John Wighton)
6. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: cameras and mounting (Peter Zutrauen)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: AN-2 (Paul McAllister)
8. 07:18 AM - Re: AN-2 (Jeff)
9. 08:39 AM - Re: AN-2 (Fred Klein)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: AN-2 (Europaul383)
11. 11:11 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (Remi Guerner)
12. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (Frans Veldman)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: AN-2 (John Wigney)
Message 1
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Raimo, That's fantastic! Very envious!.
Went with the Europa flyout to Pague into
Benesov in 2000 where we we shown round one without the
double beds. Seem to remember them telling us that it used
just about the same amount of oil as petrol, so hope you
will have the odd drum with you.
Best of luck, David Joyce, G- XSDJ
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:33:32 +0300
"Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> Wish us luck we really need it now:
>
> My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My
>plan is to get during Fri-Sat a full type rating for
>Antonov AN-2 the biggest single piston engine machine
>in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have
>purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it
>home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and
>Estonia. That means 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas
>100LL (7000 euros). It will take time 10 hours with
>economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it happily in
>6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel =
>200 euros but that is a different story.
>
> Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World
>Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday with giant
>airshow they claim.
>
> What are we going to do with our Antonov?
>
> That will be sensation and we will publish it asap.
>
> All what I can say today is that all of you will get a
>possibility to enjoy our plan literally if you like.
>
> Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he
>will not tell...
>
> A thought flying a Russian giant with a star engine
>through Europa low and slow with my family omboard makes
>me thrilled or mad you can believe.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Raimo Toivio
>
>
>
> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
>
> Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537
>
> 37500 Lempaala
>FINLAND
>
> p +358-3-3753 777
> f +358-3-3753 100
>
> toivio@fly.to
> www.rwm.fi
>
>
Message 2
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Raimo
I hope the infection you are suffering from is not contagious for other
Europa owners!
After they have taken you away to a place for the insane, I hope the men
in the white laboratory coats may be able to help you. I understand the
treatment largely consist of removing all your money and is distressing
but not too painful.
Good luck and best wishes
Ian Rickard
Europa Club Mods Specialist
Message 3
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David,
we are going to use about all together about 5000
liters of fuel (AvGas 100LL) to get thye type
rating and to fly it home. I assume we need also
oil some 200 liters or so.
It spent 10-15 times more than Europa /hour and
20-25 times more than Europa /nm. I am worried
about those green people...do not tell them
(children omboard).
Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: David Joyce
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Raimo, That's fantastic! Very envious!.
Went with the Europa flyout to Pague
into
Benesov in 2000 where we we shown round one
without the
double beds. Seem to remember them telling us that
it used
just about the same amount of oil as petrol, so
hope you
will have the odd drum with you.
Best of luck, David Joyce, G- XSDJ
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:33:32 +0300
"Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> Wish us luck we really need it now:
>
> My family is flying to Budapest Hungary
> tomorrow. My plan is to get during Fri-Sat a
> full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest
> single piston engine machine in the world. MTOW
> is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have purchased
> one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it
> home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania,
> Latvia and Estonia. That means 813 nm and over
> 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will
> take time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots.
> My Europa would do it happily in 6 hours burning
> not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200
> euros but that is a different story.
>
> Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World
> Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday
> with giant airshow they claim.
>
> What are we going to do with our Antonov?
>
> That will be sensation and we will publish it
> asap.
>
> All what I can say today is that all of you will
> get a possibility to enjoy our plan literally if
> you like.
>
> Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret
> but he will not tell...
>
> A thought flying a Russian giant with a star
> engine through Europa low and slow with my
> family omboard makes me thrilled or mad you can
> believe.
>
>
> Cheers, Raimo Toivio
>
>
> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
>
> Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537
>
> 37500 Lempaala
>FINLAND
>
> p +358-3-3753 777
> f +358-3-3753 100
>
> toivio@fly.to
> www.rwm.fi
>
>
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 4
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Ian,
do not worry. It is totally free =93 my wife Marke (really) pays
everything! She has noticed it (to let me play) keeps me virile.
And the contamination to the Europa family is sure =93 you will
see later why =93 in the phase III or IV =93 I promise!
Raimo
From: G-IANI
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: AN-2
Raimo
I hope the infection you are suffering from is not contagious for other
Europa owners!
After they have taken you away to a place for the insane, I hope the men
in the white laboratory coats may be able to help you. I understand the
treatment largely consist of removing all your money and is distressing
but not too painful.
Good luck and best wishes
Ian Rickard
Europa Club Mods Specialist
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: cameras and mounting |
I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just
behind my head. A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface.
I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down.
I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T bar
(fits between the doors when they are both up). The sticky pad mount is almost
impossible to remove, so beware.
Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside.
I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library.
Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments.
I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes) 3 times
during a t/o roll! I also found out l rock the wings a lot!
There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution. The
prop does not intrude in the picture.
I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool
tufts to show breakaway during stalls.
Regards
John
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379853#379853
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Subject: | Re: cameras and mounting |
Hi John,
I'd be really interested in seeing some of your vids! They would be
inspirational for my build. I'd be happy to pay you for a DVD or two
:-)
Since getting back into the air last November I've also been videoing
my every flight (in a group-owned 1946 Fleet Canuck sadly - but it is
a tailwheel and does have a stick :-) Taking vids started out as a
way for my ailing father to go flying with me vicariously (which he
enjoys immensely), but I also see the value in reviewing my flights
and performance (or lack of it). Here's a short 1080i (one has to
select the higher resolution) example I threw up on youtube from last
winter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACiM2u0YTvw
I find the GoPro2 to be a great little camera - and even in the
noisy/shaky canuck, the vids come out clear except for some vibration
through the resonance point. I attempted to smooth it out with by
adding weight to the camera with mixed results. I am using the
rubber-ball ram mount system (clamped to a cross bar behind my head)
which obviously has some flex due to the rubber.
I bought a couple of earbud-size mics and velcroed them into my A20
headset (Did I mention the Canuck is *noisy*?), to get some background
engine noise/music/atc into the vid. I picked them up them from:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2
The GoPro2 also takes great still photos. The resolution from even
1080i frame grabs is pretty darn good.
Cheers,
Pete
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:47 AM, John Wighton <john@wighton.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just
behind my head. A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface.
I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down.
>
> I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T
bar (fits between the doors when they are both up). The sticky pad mount is almost
impossible to remove, so beware.
>
> Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside.
>
> I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library.
Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments.
I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes) 3 times
during a t/o roll! I also found out l rock the wings a lot!
>
> There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution.
The prop does not intrude in the picture.
>
> I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool
tufts to show breakaway during stalls.
>
> Regards
> John
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379853#379853
>
>
Message 7
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On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> do not worry. It is totally free ' my wife Marke (really) pays everythi
ng!
> She has noticed it (to let me play) keeps me virile.
>
>
> Raimo
>
Marke pays for everything... really ? Does she have any unmarried sisters
?
do not archive
Message 8
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Raimo,
...ah but were I in Europe at the moment. Enjoy your flight...
Jeff - Baby Blue
On 8/1/2012 6:30 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> Jeff
>
> welcome immediately: we have on Sunday (Monday) at least 8 free seats
> for individuals who would like to experience an old fashion adventure
> through an old Europe to Finland. I am going to fly low and slow, w/o
> any electronics like GPS or iPad...schedule your flight to Budapest - I
> have a shuttle bus waiting there.
>
> Look an attachment; that man visited our home couple of the years ago.
> Landing right ahead to the farmers field 300 metres /1000 feets behind
> our home. He is (was) Michael Jacksons helicopter pilot. Strange world.
>
> That plane is actually more a helicopter than an aeroplane. Stall speed
> around 16-20 knots.
>
> And engine fire up process is unforgetable.
>
> Cheers, Raimo
>
> -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Jeff
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:01 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2
>
>
> Raimo,
>
> I've had the pleasure of seeing/riding in the old Antonov. What a
> magnificent bird. You'll love her...
>
> If you ever need crew, I'd be happy to volunteer... :)
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
>
> On 8/1/2012 5:33 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>> Hi All!
>> Wish us luck we really need it now:
>> My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get
>> during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest single
>> piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because
>> we have purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it home
>> direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means
>> 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take
>> time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it
>> happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200
>> euros but that is a different story.
>> Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics;
>> last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim.
>> What are we going to do with our Antonov?
>> That will be sensation and we will publish it asap.
>> All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to
>> enjoy our plan*literally* if you like.
>> Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell...
>> A thought /flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low
>> and slow with my family omboard/ makes me thrilled or mad you can
>> believe.
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Raimo Toivio
>>
>> Europa A2A-ala2OK
>>
>> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
>>
>> Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537
>>
>> 37500 Lempaala
>> FINLAND
>>
>> p +358-3-3753 777
>> f +358-3-3753 100
>>
>> toivio@fly.to <mailto:toivio@fly.to>
>> www.rwm.fi <http://www.rwm.fi/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> Forums!
> List Admin.
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 9
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On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> And engine fire up process is unforgetable.
Raimo,
A few years ago there was an AN-2...not your average biplane...based
at my little island airstrip...one afternoon a bunch of us airport
flunkies piled in for a ride and it was quite a treat...and, as you
say, firing up the engine is unforgettable...noise inside the plane
was thunderous, though the interior was raw and bare of insulation.
The pilot on this flight was Merrill Wien who is the check pilot for
"FIFI", the last (I believe) flying B-29...a man with many years
experience flying behind those big round engines.
Don't be bashful when you go for that type-rating...
...what an adventure !! ...good businessman that you are, I'm sure you
have a plan to make the AN-2 into a profitable enterprise...I wonder
how much Finns will pay to join the "Mile High Club"?...and redefine
what it means to have a "Happy Landing"...sounds like you have the
perfect sub-orbital vehicle to get that question answered.
All the best,
Fred
Message 10
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Have to add my 0.02 worth ... at the 1992 World Parachute Championships in Anyang,
China, the jumpships were 7 or 8 Yun-5s (Chinese copy of the AN-2).
Yes - noisy, big puff of smoke on start-up ... and bald tyres with canvass showing
in quite a few places - we were fairly glad to be taking the quick way down
and avoiding the landings :-) ... fun though...
Paul
Kit 383 XS Mono 912S
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379886#379886
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? |
Hi Frans,
I am following this thread from the beginning with interest. It is also my opinion
that your problem is not caused by vapor lock. I do not think it is a fuel
pressure problem either as lack of fuel makes the engine sputter, not just loosing
power as you described.
If your engine lost power while still running smoothly, it is more likely caused
by something wrong with the control system of the turbo. Could be any component
of the system : waste gate, waste gate bowden cable, waste gate actuator,
TCU (hardware or software), sensors or the associated wiring and plumbing.
To determine if this is the cause, I suggest you try to run the engine with the
waste gate in a frozen position. Stabilize the aircraft at the Barcelonnette
4000 ft at full 115% power. Turn off the TCU switch. Then the waste gate will
remain in a fixed position. Reduce power to idle. Increase power to 115% as you
would do for taking off and see what happens. Repeat power variations several
times. If the engine delivers the power every time without showing the problem
that you experienced, then the cause is somewere in the turbo control system.
Note that the process of taking off with an inactive TCU is described in the 914
Operator Manual, paragraph 3.6.2.
Good luck !
Remi Guerner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379888#379888
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? |
Hi Remi,
> I am following this thread from the beginning with interest. It is
> also my opinion that your problem is not caused by vapor lock. I do
> not think it is a fuel pressure problem either as lack of fuel makes
> the engine sputter, not just loosing power as you described.
Well, the fuel pressure dropped. I can't argue around that. I also
closely monitored the manifold pressure, but it didn't surge in any way.
> If your
> engine lost power while still running smoothly,
It didn't run exactly smoothly, it didn't sputter either, it was more a
rough running.
> To determine if this is the cause, I
> suggest you try to run the engine with the waste gate in a frozen
> position. Stabilize the aircraft at the Barcelonnette 4000 ft at full
> 115% power.
Good idea, although I'm not at Barcelonnette anymore. But I think I can
repeat the procedure while flying at altitude. (Problem at Barcelonnette
was that the brakes didn't hold full power and there wasn't anything to
attach the plane to, except for the runway parallel tie down steel cable
but it had some gliders attached to it as well. So experiments were
limited and I definitely didn't want to land in the Ubaye, which is fine
for rafting but not for landing.)
> Turn off the TCU switch. Then the waste gate will remain
> in a fixed position. Reduce power to idle. Increase power to 115% as
> you would do for taking off and see what happens.
Sounds like a good experiment. I thougth already that maybe the waste
gate is sticky, and while opening after reaching enough pressure, it
gives a tiny boost peak, too fast to show up on my manifold pressure
gauge, but enough to trigger the fuel pressure regulator.
I will also lock the prop in the max power setting, to rule that out
too. So, with the waste gate locked and the prop also locked it is
interesting to see what happens to my little problem.
Thanks,
Frans
Message 13
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Hi Raimo,
I can tell you are about to have a lot of fun. I know these machines use
a lot of oil but I was a bit startled to see they use 15 kg/hr or about
the same amount of fuel used by a Europa. It is a remarkable airplane
with some interesting features and obviously does not need a BRS
parachute. Here is one quote which I found :-
/"//The An-2 supposedly has no identifiable stall speed. In fact, the
book emergency procedure for an engine failure in IMC or at night is to
close the throttle, secure everything, drop full flaps, pull the yoke
full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out
at about 35 knots, and at a forward speed of about 20 knots, the
airplane will sink and eventually hit at a basically survivable,
parachute-like descent rate."
/We wait for the sensational news on your plans for the AN-2 with great
interest.
Cheers, John
N262WF, Mooresville, North Carolina
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
From: "Raimo Toivio"<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Subject: Europa-List: AN-2
Hi All!
Wish us luck we really need it now:
My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get
during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest
single piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it
because we have purchased one (model CVIP /SafariD). My
plan is to fly it home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia
and Estonia. That means 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000
euros). It will take time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My
Europa would do it happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters
98E autofuel = 200 euros but that is a different story.
Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics;
last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim.
What are we going to do with our Antonov?
That will be sensation and we will publish it asap.
All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to
enjoy our plan literally if you like.
Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell...
A thought flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low
and slow with my family onboard makes me thrilled or mad you can
believe.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio@fly.to
www.rwm.fi
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