---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/02/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Re: AN-2 (David Joyce) 2. 02:45 AM - Re: AN-2 (G-IANI) 3. 04:27 AM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio) 4. 04:28 AM - Re: AN-2 (Raimo Toivio) 5. 05:48 AM - Re: cameras and mounting (John Wighton) 6. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: cameras and mounting (Peter Zutrauen) 7. 07:04 AM - Re: AN-2 (Paul McAllister) 8. 07:18 AM - Re: AN-2 (Jeff) 9. 08:39 AM - Re: AN-2 (Fred Klein) 10. 10:20 AM - Re: AN-2 (Europaul383) 11. 11:11 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (Remi Guerner) 12. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? (Frans Veldman) 13. 02:10 PM - Re: AN-2 (John Wigney) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:04 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, That's fantastic! Very envious!. Went with the Europa flyout to Pague into Benesov in 2000 where we we shown round one without the double beds. Seem to remember them telling us that it used just about the same amount of oil as petrol, so hope you will have the odd drum with you. Best of luck, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:33:32 +0300 "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > Hi All! > > Wish us luck we really need it now: > > My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My >plan is to get during Fri-Sat a full type rating for >Antonov AN-2 the biggest single piston engine machine >in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have >purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it >home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and >Estonia. That means 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas >100LL (7000 euros). It will take time 10 hours with >economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it happily in >6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = >200 euros but that is a different story. > > Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World >Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday with giant >airshow they claim. > > What are we going to do with our Antonov? > > That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. > > All what I can say today is that all of you will get a >possibility to enjoy our plan literally if you like. > > Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he >will not tell... > > A thought flying a Russian giant with a star engine >through Europa low and slow with my family omboard makes >me thrilled or mad you can believe. > > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 > > 37500 Lempaala >FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:21 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo I hope the infection you are suffering from is not contagious for other Europa owners! After they have taken you away to a place for the insane, I hope the men in the white laboratory coats may be able to help you. I understand the treatment largely consist of removing all your money and is distressing but not too painful. Good luck and best wishes Ian Rickard Europa Club Mods Specialist ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:16 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 David, we are going to use about all together about 5000 liters of fuel (AvGas 100LL) to get thye type rating and to fly it home. I assume we need also oil some 200 liters or so. It spent 10-15 times more than Europa /hour and 20-25 times more than Europa /nm. I am worried about those green people...do not tell them (children omboard). Raimo -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: David Joyce Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, That's fantastic! Very envious!. Went with the Europa flyout to Pague into Benesov in 2000 where we we shown round one without the double beds. Seem to remember them telling us that it used just about the same amount of oil as petrol, so hope you will have the odd drum with you. Best of luck, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:33:32 +0300 "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > Hi All! > > Wish us luck we really need it now: > > My family is flying to Budapest Hungary > tomorrow. My plan is to get during Fri-Sat a > full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest > single piston engine machine in the world. MTOW > is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have purchased > one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it > home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, > Latvia and Estonia. That means 813 nm and over > 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will > take time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. > My Europa would do it happily in 6 hours burning > not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 > euros but that is a different story. > > Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World > Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday > with giant airshow they claim. > > What are we going to do with our Antonov? > > That will be sensation and we will publish it > asap. > > All what I can say today is that all of you will > get a possibility to enjoy our plan literally if > you like. > > Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret > but he will not tell... > > A thought flying a Russian giant with a star > engine through Europa low and slow with my > family omboard makes me thrilled or mad you can > believe. > > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 > > 37500 Lempaala >FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:53 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Ian, do not worry. It is totally free =93 my wife Marke (really) pays everything! She has noticed it (to let me play) keeps me virile. And the contamination to the Europa family is sure =93 you will see later why =93 in the phase III or IV =93 I promise! Raimo From: G-IANI Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:44 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo I hope the infection you are suffering from is not contagious for other Europa owners! After they have taken you away to a place for the insane, I hope the men in the white laboratory coats may be able to help you. I understand the treatment largely consist of removing all your money and is distressing but not too painful. Good luck and best wishes Ian Rickard Europa Club Mods Specialist ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: cameras and mounting From: "John Wighton" I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just behind my head. A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface. I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down. I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T bar (fits between the doors when they are both up). The sticky pad mount is almost impossible to remove, so beware. Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside. I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library. Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments. I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes) 3 times during a t/o roll! I also found out l rock the wings a lot! There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution. The prop does not intrude in the picture. I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool tufts to show breakaway during stalls. Regards John -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379853#379853 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:27 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: cameras and mounting Hi John, I'd be really interested in seeing some of your vids! They would be inspirational for my build. I'd be happy to pay you for a DVD or two :-) Since getting back into the air last November I've also been videoing my every flight (in a group-owned 1946 Fleet Canuck sadly - but it is a tailwheel and does have a stick :-) Taking vids started out as a way for my ailing father to go flying with me vicariously (which he enjoys immensely), but I also see the value in reviewing my flights and performance (or lack of it). Here's a short 1080i (one has to select the higher resolution) example I threw up on youtube from last winter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACiM2u0YTvw I find the GoPro2 to be a great little camera - and even in the noisy/shaky canuck, the vids come out clear except for some vibration through the resonance point. I attempted to smooth it out with by adding weight to the camera with mixed results. I am using the rubber-ball ram mount system (clamped to a cross bar behind my head) which obviously has some flex due to the rubber. I bought a couple of earbud-size mics and velcroed them into my A20 headset (Did I mention the Canuck is *noisy*?), to get some background engine noise/music/atc into the vid. I picked them up them from: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2 The GoPro2 also takes great still photos. The resolution from even 1080i frame grabs is pretty darn good. Cheers, Pete On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:47 AM, John Wighton wrote: > > > I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just behind my head. A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface. I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down. > > I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T bar (fits between the doors when they are both up). The sticky pad mount is almost impossible to remove, so beware. > > Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside. > > I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library. Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments. I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes) 3 times during a t/o roll! I also found out l rock the wings a lot! > > There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution. The prop does not intrude in the picture. > > I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool tufts to show breakaway during stalls. > > Regards > John > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379853#379853 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 From: Paul McAllister On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Ian, > > do not worry. It is totally free ' my wife Marke (really) pays everythi ng! > She has noticed it (to let me play) keeps me virile. > > > Raimo > Marke pays for everything... really ? Does she have any unmarried sisters ? do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:57 AM PST US From: Jeff Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 Raimo, ...ah but were I in Europe at the moment. Enjoy your flight... Jeff - Baby Blue On 8/1/2012 6:30 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Jeff > > welcome immediately: we have on Sunday (Monday) at least 8 free seats > for individuals who would like to experience an old fashion adventure > through an old Europe to Finland. I am going to fly low and slow, w/o > any electronics like GPS or iPad...schedule your flight to Budapest - I > have a shuttle bus waiting there. > > Look an attachment; that man visited our home couple of the years ago. > Landing right ahead to the farmers field 300 metres /1000 feets behind > our home. He is (was) Michael Jacksons helicopter pilot. Strange world. > > That plane is actually more a helicopter than an aeroplane. Stall speed > around 16-20 knots. > > And engine fire up process is unforgetable. > > Cheers, Raimo > > -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Jeff > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 2:01 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 > > > Raimo, > > I've had the pleasure of seeing/riding in the old Antonov. What a > magnificent bird. You'll love her... > > If you ever need crew, I'd be happy to volunteer... :) > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > On 8/1/2012 5:33 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: >> Hi All! >> Wish us luck we really need it now: >> My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get >> during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest single >> piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because >> we have purchased one (model VIP /Safari). My plan is to fly it home >> direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means >> 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take >> time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it >> happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 >> euros but that is a different story. >> Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics; >> last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim. >> What are we going to do with our Antonov? >> That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. >> All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to >> enjoy our plan*literally* if you like. >> Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell... >> A thought /flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low >> and slow with my family omboard/ makes me thrilled or mad you can >> believe. >> >> >> Cheers, Raimo Toivio >> >> Europa A2A-ala2OK >> >> Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 >> >> Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 >> >> 37500 Lempaala >> FINLAND >> >> p +358-3-3753 777 >> f +358-3-3753 100 >> >> toivio@fly.to >> www.rwm.fi >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > Forums! > List Admin. > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:24 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: AN-2 On Aug 1, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > And engine fire up process is unforgetable. Raimo, A few years ago there was an AN-2...not your average biplane...based at my little island airstrip...one afternoon a bunch of us airport flunkies piled in for a ride and it was quite a treat...and, as you say, firing up the engine is unforgettable...noise inside the plane was thunderous, though the interior was raw and bare of insulation. The pilot on this flight was Merrill Wien who is the check pilot for "FIFI", the last (I believe) flying B-29...a man with many years experience flying behind those big round engines. Don't be bashful when you go for that type-rating... ...what an adventure !! ...good businessman that you are, I'm sure you have a plan to make the AN-2 into a profitable enterprise...I wonder how much Finns will pay to join the "Mile High Club"?...and redefine what it means to have a "Happy Landing"...sounds like you have the perfect sub-orbital vehicle to get that question answered. All the best, Fred ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:31 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: AN-2 From: "Europaul383" Have to add my 0.02 worth ... at the 1992 World Parachute Championships in Anyang, China, the jumpships were 7 or 8 Yun-5s (Chinese copy of the AN-2). Yes - noisy, big puff of smoke on start-up ... and bald tyres with canvass showing in quite a few places - we were fairly glad to be taking the quick way down and avoiding the landings :-) ... fun though... Paul Kit 383 XS Mono 912S G-PLPM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379886#379886 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? From: "Remi Guerner" Hi Frans, I am following this thread from the beginning with interest. It is also my opinion that your problem is not caused by vapor lock. I do not think it is a fuel pressure problem either as lack of fuel makes the engine sputter, not just loosing power as you described. If your engine lost power while still running smoothly, it is more likely caused by something wrong with the control system of the turbo. Could be any component of the system : waste gate, waste gate bowden cable, waste gate actuator, TCU (hardware or software), sensors or the associated wiring and plumbing. To determine if this is the cause, I suggest you try to run the engine with the waste gate in a frozen position. Stabilize the aircraft at the Barcelonnette 4000 ft at full 115% power. Turn off the TCU switch. Then the waste gate will remain in a fixed position. Reduce power to idle. Increase power to 115% as you would do for taking off and see what happens. Repeat power variations several times. If the engine delivers the power every time without showing the problem that you experienced, then the cause is somewere in the turbo control system. Note that the process of taking off with an inactive TCU is described in the 914 Operator Manual, paragraph 3.6.2. Good luck ! Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379888#379888 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Vapour lock? Pressure regulator? Hi Remi, > I am following this thread from the beginning with interest. It is > also my opinion that your problem is not caused by vapor lock. I do > not think it is a fuel pressure problem either as lack of fuel makes > the engine sputter, not just loosing power as you described. Well, the fuel pressure dropped. I can't argue around that. I also closely monitored the manifold pressure, but it didn't surge in any way. > If your > engine lost power while still running smoothly, It didn't run exactly smoothly, it didn't sputter either, it was more a rough running. > To determine if this is the cause, I > suggest you try to run the engine with the waste gate in a frozen > position. Stabilize the aircraft at the Barcelonnette 4000 ft at full > 115% power. Good idea, although I'm not at Barcelonnette anymore. But I think I can repeat the procedure while flying at altitude. (Problem at Barcelonnette was that the brakes didn't hold full power and there wasn't anything to attach the plane to, except for the runway parallel tie down steel cable but it had some gliders attached to it as well. So experiments were limited and I definitely didn't want to land in the Ubaye, which is fine for rafting but not for landing.) > Turn off the TCU switch. Then the waste gate will remain > in a fixed position. Reduce power to idle. Increase power to 115% as > you would do for taking off and see what happens. Sounds like a good experiment. I thougth already that maybe the waste gate is sticky, and while opening after reaching enough pressure, it gives a tiny boost peak, too fast to show up on my manifold pressure gauge, but enough to trigger the fuel pressure regulator. I will also lock the prop in the max power setting, to rule that out too. So, with the waste gate locked and the prop also locked it is interesting to see what happens to my little problem. Thanks, Frans ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:07 PM PST US From: John Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Re: AN-2 Hi Raimo, I can tell you are about to have a lot of fun. I know these machines use a lot of oil but I was a bit startled to see they use 15 kg/hr or about the same amount of fuel used by a Europa. It is a remarkable airplane with some interesting features and obviously does not need a BRS parachute. Here is one quote which I found :- /"//The An-2 supposedly has no identifiable stall speed. In fact, the book emergency procedure for an engine failure in IMC or at night is to close the throttle, secure everything, drop full flaps, pull the yoke full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 35 knots, and at a forward speed of about 20 knots, the airplane will sink and eventually hit at a basically survivable, parachute-like descent rate." /We wait for the sensational news on your plans for the AN-2 with great interest. Cheers, John N262WF, Mooresville, North Carolina ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ORIGINAL MESSAGE From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: AN-2 Hi All! Wish us luck we really need it now: My family is flying to Budapest Hungary tomorrow. My plan is to get during Fri-Sat a full type rating for Antonov AN-2 the biggest single piston engine machine in the world. MTOW is 5500 kgs. I need it because we have purchased one (model CVIP /SafariD). My plan is to fly it home direct via Slovakia, Poland, Liethuania, Latvia and Estonia. That means 813 nm and over 2000 liters of AvGas 100LL (7000 euros). It will take time 10 hours with economy cruise 82 knots. My Europa would do it happily in 6 hours burning not more than 130 liters 98E autofuel = 200 euros but that is a different story. Before our dep we have a chance to enjoy World Championship Aerobatics; last day is Saturday with giant airshow they claim. What are we going to do with our Antonov? That will be sensation and we will publish it asap. All what I can say today is that all of you will get a possibility to enjoy our plan literally if you like. Our American friend Kim Prout knows the secret but he will not tell... A thought flying a Russian giant with a star engine through Europa low and slow with my family onboard makes me thrilled or mad you can believe. Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 327 /537 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.