---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/10/12: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:01 AM - Mod 77 (Frans Veldman) 2. 02:19 AM - Re: Mod 77 (craig) 3. 03:46 AM - Re: Mod 77 (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 04:20 AM - Re: Mod 77 (Frans Veldman) 5. 04:44 AM - Re: Mod 77 (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 6. 04:45 AM - Re: Mod 77 (Peter Zutrauen) 7. 06:20 AM - Re: Mod 77 (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com) 8. 09:53 AM - Re: Mod 77 (stephen vestuti) 9. 11:28 AM - Re: One lonely daughter found finally her mother (zwakie) 10. 11:45 PM - Re: Mod 77 (Steven Pitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:17 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Europa-List: Mod 77 Hi, I just completed mod 77 (rudder drive mechanism). I was surprised to learn that I'm the first one to apply it to a finished airplane. Here is a couple of reasons why you could do this mod: 1) Your built has long finished and you want to retaste that nostalgic feeling? Mod 77 has it all: Some hardware assembly with rivets, bearings, nuts and bolts, some foam carving, floxing and BIDding, and plenty of "I can see it, I can touch it, but not at the same time" deja-vu's, and last but not least the occasional confusion (text and pictures both showing different rivets, parts in the bag that are not listed or used in the project at all). It is the entire built of your ship in a nutshell. 2) If you, like me, have the weight of your feet resting on the rudder pedals, consider that it is the lower rudder hinge which is carrying all this weight, and it is even offset this pulling force. Mod 77 takes all weight from this hinge and transfers only the differential weight of your feet to the rudder. 3) The original rudder stop works as a lever mechanism to execute a massive pulling force on the hinge, especially if slammed to the starboard side. Mod 77 removes the stops from the rudder and instead has it incorporated inside the drive mechanism with much more robust parts. 4) Always had this feeling that this control wire running outside of your ship belongs more on a piper cub than on your sleek Europa? Mod 77 eliminates this control wire, horns and stops and improves the cosmetics of your ship. 5) This outside control horn and wire seemed to capture all the mud and grass that the prop and wheels are slinging to this area, and then the control wire did its best to draw it into the wire opening in the fuselage, waiting there to jam or freeze itself stuck. Mod 77 reduces maintenance quite a bit, the entire rudder drive is now inside the ship. 6) The control wire, control horn angled in the airstream, stops, and rudder bottom cut-off, must create quite some aerodynamic drag. Mod 77 removes all this clutter and as a bonus you can blend in the bottom of the rudder with the bottom of the tailpost. Probably woth a knot or two. Oh, for those concerned about weight: The components weigh about 500 grams. But I could remove a good 350 grams of old hardware. Remember the absurd weight of the original rudder plate, the stacks of washers, etc? Frans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:43 AM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 77 Did mine during the build, but it was still fun and games, probably not as much as yours though Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:12 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Frans=0AWhen I first developed this mod I had to load test it for the LAA. Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs)=0AIf one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg.=0A7 years ago we sold our h ouse and with it went my wonderful workshop. That meant I had to stop makin g up Mod kits so I persuaded-=0ADavid Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sell this mod. It works for taildraggers too btw,-=0A =0AWe flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it fe lt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from the fro nt again!=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Fra ns Veldman =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent : Friday, 10 August 2012, 10:53=0ASubject: Europa-List: Mod 77=0A =0A--> Eu ropa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman =0A=0AHi ,=0A=0AI just completed mod 77 (rudder drive mechanism). I was surprised to =0Alearn that I'm the first one to apply it to a finished airplane. Here is =0Aa couple of reasons why you could do this mod:=0A=0A1) Your built has lo ng finished and you want to retaste that nostalgic=0Afeeling? Mod 77 has it all: Some hardware assembly with rivets,=0Abearings, nuts and bolts, some foam carving, floxing and BIDding, and=0Aplenty of "I can see it, I can tou ch it, but not at the same time"=0Adeja-vu's, and last but not least the oc casional confusion (text and=0Apictures both showing different rivets, part s in the bag that are not=0Alisted or used in the project at all). It is th e entire built of your=0Aship in a nutshell.=0A=0A2) If you, like me, have the weight of your feet resting on the rudder=0Apedals, consider that it is the lower rudder hinge which is carrying all=0Athis weight, and it is even offset this pulling force. Mod 77 takes all=0Aweight from this hinge and t ransfers only the differential weight of=0Ayour feet to the rudder.=0A=0A3) The original rudder stop works as a lever mechanism to execute a=0Amassive pulling force on the hinge, especially if slammed to the=0Astarboard side. Mod 77 removes the stops from the rudder and instead has=0Ait incorporated inside the drive mechanism with much more robust parts.=0A=0A4) Always had this feeling that this control wire running outside of=0Ayour ship belongs more on a piper cub than on your sleek Europa? Mod 77=0Aeliminates this co ntrol wire, horns and stops and improves the cosmetics=0Aof your ship.=0A =0A5) This outside control horn and wire seemed to capture all the mud and =0Agrass that the prop and wheels are slinging to this area, and then the =0Acontrol wire did its best to draw it into the wire opening in the=0Afuse lage, waiting there to jam or freeze itself stuck. Mod 77 reduces=0Amainten ance quite a bit, the entire rudder drive is now inside the ship.=0A=0A6) T he control wire, control horn angled in the airstream, stops, and=0Arudder bottom cut-off, must create quite some aerodynamic drag. Mod 77=0Aremoves a ll this clutter and as a bonus you can blend in the bottom of=0Athe rudder with the bottom of the tailpost. Probably woth a knot or two.=0A=0AOh, for those concerned about weight: The components weigh about 500=0Agrams. But I could remove a good 350 grams of old hardware. Remember the=0Aabsurd weigh t of the original rudder plate, the stacks of washers, etc?=0A=0AFrans=0A =============== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:18 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Hi Graham! > Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs) > If one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the > total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg. Wow! I didn't even think about an override and the leverage! 400Kg is a lot for that poor hinge! Which brings up the question why the standard construction is even certified... Or why this mod didn't get incorporated in the standard kit long time ago. > 7 years ago we sold our house and with it went my wonderful workshop:-S I even don't want to think about loosing my workshop... > That meant I had to stop making up Mod kits so I persuaded > David Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sell this > mod. Just putting the mod somewhere burried onto the website isn't going to attract many customers... It took a while before I discovered its existence, and it took me a while to realize the benefits of this mod. > We flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it > felt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from > the front again! I think as a relatively newcomer I miss some history here. So you built a long EZ? Thanks for inventing this mod 77. Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:44 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Frans=0AThe Long EZ was the first aircraft I built, or at least the first m odel airplane big enough to sit in! First flew=0A1985 and wore out the engi ne in the next ten years. I've been refurbishing and upgrading ever since. =0AIvan Shaw was a very early Rutan disciple and helped me get started, the re were four of us building at-=0Athe time and we used to meet up in the hills, drink beer and talk about the next great design. The goal was an air plane that would have-=0ALong EZ performance and short field capability a nd the Europa was Ivan's distillation of all our dreams and ideas.=0AI clai m credit for demanding it should be deriggable in 15 minutes like any self respecting glider. Ivan was persuaded to-=0Avisit one of my local gliding clubs and see how they -carry on. He always recognises a good idea when he sees one.=0ANotice the similarity of the tailplane to that of a K6E?- =0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Frans Veldman < frans@privatepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, 10 August 2012, 13:12=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77=0A =0A--> Europa-Lis t message posted by: Frans Veldman =0A=0AHi Graham! =0A=0A> Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs) =0A> If one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the =0A> total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg.=0A=0AWow! I didn't even think about an override and the leverage! 400Kg is a=0Alot for that poor hinge! Which brings up the question why the standard=0Aconstructi on is even certified... Or why this mod didn't get=0Aincorporated in the st andard kit long time ago.=0A=0A> 7 years ago we sold our house and with it went my wonderful workshop:-S=0A=0AI even don't want to think about loosing my workshop...=0A=0A> That meant I had to stop making up Mod kits so I per suaded =0A> David Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sel l this=0A> mod.=0A=0AJust putting the mod somewhere burried onto the websit e isn't going to=0Aattract many customers... It took a while before I disco vered its=0Aexistence, and it took me a while to realize the benefits of th is mod.=0A=0A> We flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it=0A> felt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from=0A> the front again!=0A=0AI think as a relatively newcomer I miss some history here. So you built=0Aa long EZ?=0A=0AThanks for inventing this ====================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:28 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Frans (and other newer members), you may may want to read the great report of Ivan's presentation at the last AGM in the last newsletter - what a great read! Quite the history lesson (with Graham's contribution included I believe). Cheers, Pete A239 On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Frans Veldman wrote: > > Hi Graham! > > > Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs) > > If one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the > > total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg. > > Wow! I didn't even think about an override and the leverage! 400Kg is a > lot for that poor hinge! Which brings up the question why the standard > construction is even certified... Or why this mod didn't get > incorporated in the standard kit long time ago. > > > 7 years ago we sold our house and with it went my wonderful workshop:-S > > I even don't want to think about loosing my workshop... > > > That meant I had to stop making up Mod kits so I persuaded > > David Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sell this > > mod. > > Just putting the mod somewhere burried onto the website isn't going to > attract many customers... It took a while before I discovered its > existence, and it took me a while to realize the benefits of this mod. > > > We flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it > > felt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from > > the front again! > > I think as a relatively newcomer I miss some history here. So you built > a long EZ? > > Thanks for inventing this mod 77. > > Frans > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:21 AM PST US From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Hi Pete, How might we access this report? Kevin On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:44 AM, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > Frans (and other newer members), > > you may may want to read the great report of Ivan's presentation at the la st AGM in the last newsletter - what a great read! Quite the history lesson (with Graham's contribution included I believe). > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Frans Veldman wr ote: > > Hi Graham! > > > Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs) > > If one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the > > total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg. > > Wow! I didn't even think about an override and the leverage! 400Kg is a > lot for that poor hinge! Which brings up the question why the standard > construction is even certified... Or why this mod didn't get > incorporated in the standard kit long time ago. > > > 7 years ago we sold our house and with it went my wonderful workshop:-S > > I even don't want to think about loosing my workshop... > > > That meant I had to stop making up Mod kits so I persuaded > > David Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sell this > > mod. > > Just putting the mod somewhere burried onto the website isn't going to > attract many customers... It took a while before I discovered its > existence, and it took me a while to realize the benefits of this mod. > > > We flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it > > felt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from > > the front again! > > I think as a relatively newcomer I miss some history here. So you built > a long EZ? > > Thanks for inventing this mod 77. > > Frans > > > ========== > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 77 From: "stephen vestuti" Graham, I let my license lapse in 2010, ( kids, wife, spending too much money on myself Etc.) I revalidated 6 Months later - I couldn't stand it any more & I was missing my Europa more & more everyday. I hope to hear that you have flown your long Ez from the front, life is just too short . Steve #630 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380597#380597 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: One lonely daughter found finally her mother From: "zwakie" Congrats Raimo with the AN-2, please let us know when the website you mention is on-line. As it happens, last Sunday I had my Europa behind an Antonov for fuelling at Trier-Fhren (EDRT). At that time your adventurous ferryflight came to my mind, silently whishing you a good flight in blue skies :) -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380603#380603 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1476_116.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:48 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Kevin, As a Member of the Europa Club you should be receiving the Europa Flyer in which is contained the report on Ivan's presentation ( as well as a fantastic photo montage of Flying to Kitty Hawk by Troy and Donna Maynor). I have been trying to persuade our Treasurer (who shot a video of the presentation) to get it on You Tube or whatever but he has a Europa to build (which we keep on nagging him to finish)so he is finding time difficult to edit the video. Regards Steve Pitt Chairman, Europa Club ----- Original Message ----- From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 77 Hi Pete, How might we access this report? Kevin On Aug 10, 2012, at 4:44 AM, Peter Zutrauen wrote: Frans (and other newer members), you may may want to read the great report of Ivan's presentation at the last AGM in the last newsletter - what a great read! Quite the history lesson (with Graham's contribution included I believe). Cheers, Pete A239 On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Frans Veldman wrote: Hi Graham! > Because of the leverage of the rudder pedals (and our strong legs) > If one pilot pushes hard left and the other one has to overide him the > total load on the hing and flange would be nearly 400 Kg. Wow! I didn't even think about an override and the leverage! 400Kg is a lot for that poor hinge! Which brings up the question why the standard construction is even certified... Or why this mod didn't get incorporated in the standard kit long time ago. > 7 years ago we sold our house and with it went my wonderful workshop:-S I even don't want to think about loosing my workshop... > That meant I had to stop making up Mod kits so I persuaded > David Stanbridge that it would be a good idea for Europa to sell this > mod. Just putting the mod somewhere burried onto the website isn't going to attract many customers... It took a while before I discovered its existence, and it took me a while to realize the benefits of this mod. > We flew my Long EZ last week for the first time in too many years, it > felt wonderful. I am tempted to revalidate my lisence and fly it from > the front again! I think as a relatively newcomer I miss some history here. So you built a long EZ? Thanks for inventing this mod 77. Frans ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.