---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/25/12: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: Fly in Monday (Duncan & Ami) 2. 02:13 AM - Re: Re: Landing mishap - asking for advise (Duncan & Ami) 3. 02:37 AM - NSI prop controller (Kevin Challis) 4. 03:09 AM - Re: NSI prop controller (Pete Lawless) 5. 03:55 AM - Re: XS Exhaust System Cracks (JonSmith) 6. 03:55 AM - Re: NSI prop controller (Kevin Challis) 7. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Landing mishap/ prop twist (David Joyce) 8. 05:12 AM - Re: Rotax 912S Carb Drip Trays (Alfred Buess) 9. 10:26 AM - Re: Cracks on the cockpit module near to the seat belts (ploucandco) 10. 01:05 PM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Frans Veldman) 11. 02:59 PM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Gilles Thesee) 12. 04:10 PM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:21 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fly in Monday David, Presumably there is no intention to bring this forward to Sunday, rather than holding on Monday, for which the forecast is not good (including significant crosswind)? Rgds., Duncan Mcf. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID JOYCE Sent: 24 August 2012 20:12 Subject: Europa-List: Fly in Monday Fellow Europaees I would like to invite any of the forum to our Fli in at abbots Bromley on Monday (Bank Holiday) this is an annual event in which we raise funds for the Air Ambulance. The strip is 5 miles to the west of Tatenhill near derby, allways well attended by aircraft of all types, over 500 metres and the home base of four Europas. Contact me for further details All are welcome anytime after 10AM, Mogas and Avgas available at HalfPenny Green 12 mins from our strip, I may be able to arrange limited Mogas in 20 Litre Jerry cans in advance (please contact me), food and refreshment and camping facilities available on site. Hope to see anyone that can make it rgds David joyce G-BXGG (The Other One) Sent to you from David Joyce www.eastmidsspas.com www.southyorksspas.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:29 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap - asking for advise You'll also need to measure the diameter for any meaningful comparison; generally, as diameter increases, the required overall prop twist along the blade needs to be slightly less. Then there's the fact that most manufactured blades in our class of use (e.g. Warp Drive, Arplast) start off as a larger diameter prop (with a better amount of twist) which is then cut down to the required diameter. This of course removes twist, usually to well below the optimum! Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zwakie Sent: 21 August 2012 20:57 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap - asking for advise David, Graham and others, I will take it upon myself to come up with the numbers on the twist of the Arplast PV50 and publish them here in due time. -------- Marcel (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381475#381475 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:17 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: NSI prop controller From: Kevin Challis Hi Does anyone have a spare NSI prop controller? Or can anyone fix it? It provides a fully course voltage all the time. I have swapped the leads around and it goes fully fine so no problem with the prop it's just!!!! The metal box controller. The board inside is marked NSI Aero products 120-19001-01 rev 2 Many thanks Kevin Challis ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:03 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: NSI prop controller Hi Kevin David Hunter has a spare available for sale. I suggest you contact him on david.hunter68@btinternet.com or 07939 157426 Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis Sent: 25 August 2012 10:36 Subject: Europa-List: NSI prop controller Hi Does anyone have a spare NSI prop controller? Or can anyone fix it? It provides a fully course voltage all the time. I have swapped the leads around and it goes fully fine so no problem with the prop it's just!!!! The metal box controller. The board inside is marked NSI Aero products 120-19001-01 rev 2 Many thanks Kevin Challis -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:19 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: XS Exhaust System Cracks From: "JonSmith" Hi Pete, thanks again for your reply, interesting to hear about your problems too. Thank You also for the CKT contact details if I come to need it. I think I've been supplied with a duff one. Waiting to hear back from Europa. In the mean time I'm being ribbed about pictures of my crack appearing on the internet...... You're absolutely correct about G-TERN at Kemble. That's where I bought it from. You've got an excellent memory because that was nearly nine years ago! Cheers, Jon -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381746#381746 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: NSI prop controller From: Kevin Challis Pete Thank you, I have spoken to David direct. What would we do without this forum? Kevin Challis On 25 Aug 2012, at 11:08, "Pete Lawless" wrote: > > Hi Kevin > > David Hunter has a spare available for sale. I suggest you contact him on > david.hunter68@btinternet.com or 07939 157426 > > Regards > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis > Sent: 25 August 2012 10:36 > To: Europa List > Subject: Europa-List: NSI prop controller > > > > Hi > > Does anyone have a spare NSI prop controller? Or can anyone fix it? > > It provides a fully course voltage all the time. I have swapped the leads > around and it goes fully fine so no problem with the prop it's just!!!! The > metal box controller. The board inside is marked > > NSI Aero products 120-19001-01 rev 2 > > Many thanks > > Kevin Challis > > > > > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:24 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap/ prop twist Duncan, As all Europa props are close to 1600mm it makes very little difference. The actual maths are set out in the article 'Does propeller twist matter?' in Europa Flyer no 65 (available like all back numbers on the beautiful new Europa Club website at www.theeuropaclub.org/the-club/europa-flyer/ ). For a 1600mm prop, the amount of twist needed rises rapidly from 6 degrees at 20 kts to 24 at 100kts but then levels off to just 29 degrees at 160 kts before coming down somewhat at higher speeds. As the curve flattens out in the working range an increase in diameter just moves you marginally along this relatively flat segment. In practice 26 degrees is within 3 degrees of optimal for speeds between 90 odd kts and 200+ kts, whereas 12 degrees (your Warp drive blade) is optimal for sitting stationary on the ground with the throttle half open (this giving an airflow of 40kts past the cock[pit!) Regards, David On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:12:17 +0100 "Duncan & Ami" wrote: > > > You'll also need to measure the diameter for any >meaningful comparison; > generally, as diameter increases, the required overall >prop twist along the > blade needs to be slightly less. > Then there's the fact that most manufactured blades in >our class of use > (e.g. Warp Drive, Arplast) start off as a larger >diameter prop (with a > better amount of twist) which is then cut down to the >required diameter. > This of course removes twist, usually to well below the >optimum! > > Duncan McF. > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of zwakie > Sent: 21 August 2012 20:57 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Landing mishap - asking for >advise > > > > > David, Graham and others, > > I will take it upon myself to come up with the numbers >on the twist of the > Arplast PV50 and publish them here in due time. > > -------- > Marcel > (Europa Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381475#381475 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:04 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax 912S Carb Drip Trays From: "Alfred Buess" Christoph, I used the Rotax drip trays sold with the 912S airbox and mounted them to the engine ring mount. Works well with the Skydrive carb heat system in place. See attached pictures. Ask if you need more information. Alfred Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381758#381758 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1690_980.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1689_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1681_147.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1682_116.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cracks on the cockpit module near to the seat belts From: "ploucandco" Hi all, here is a drawing of the cockpit module that shows with red rectangles the place where the pictures have been taken and so the location of the cracks. Will 5 BID at both side of the existing panel and on the cracks location be enough to repair and prevent reoccurence? Thanks, Jacques Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381795#381795 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cockpit_module_158.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:36 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why? On 07/31/2012 10:57 PM, Frans Veldman wrote: > I will check the system thoroughly and see if I can find any abnormalities. An update about this problem. (For those who didn't follow the conversation; it is about a sudden fuel pressure drop on a Rotax 914 when applying take off power). 1) The waste gate appears to function normally. It is not binding, it cycles normally when applying power to the TCU. 2) The fuel flow exceeds 120 liters per hour. So it has nothing to do with the fuel filters or fuel pumps. After confirming this, I changed my focus on the fuel pressure regulator. I disconnected the airbox pressure connector and put a small hose and syringe on it. With the syringe I could imitate a rising pressure in the airbox (like the turbo spooling up during TO power). What I found was this: 1) When I increase the reference pressure, I hear the fuel pump labouring for a short while, while it has to cope with the higher back pressure. 2) Whatever pressure I apply to the reference port, it quickly disappears. There is no external leak according to a "soap" test. The only possibility is that the air escapes via the fuel return line. (I did check the syringe and the hoses, this is not where the pressure escapes). I think that the fuel pressur regulator should not bleed away the reference pressure. 3) When the reference pressure increases, the fuel pressure lags behind. It comes up after a short while. It looks like is not a fuel pump problem, it is the regulator that responds slowly. 4) If I pull the syringe (instead of pushing), there is not so much lag. It also looks like the fuel pressure regulator holds an underpressur better than an overpressure. This could mean there is a pinhole leak in the diaphragm, it lets air more easily out than fuel in. My conclusion is that the fuel pressure regulator is faulty, binding and/or internally leaking. Any comments about this? Should I replace the diaphragm or the whole regulator? Thanks, Frans ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:29 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why? Frans Veldman a crit : > My conclusion is that the fuel pressure regulator is faulty, binding > and/or internally leaking. Any comments about this? Frans, Before concluding about the fuel pressure regulator, I would make sure that the test procedure is adequate. From numerous experiments in the past, I came to the conclusion that a syringe is a poor means of applying a calibrated pressure to a dynamic system such as the fuel pressure regulator. What we did some years ago to ascertain the proper functionning of the regulator, is apply a *calibrated head* of water by means of a clear plastic line hoisted up to a certain height in our hangar. Of course we provided an adequate 'S' routing so that no water would enter the regulator port. We found no discrepancy (using a usual fuel pressure gauge). The resulting fuel pressure could be measured in much the same way, but with a T fitting in the fuel line. Since we are awaiting a 0.25 bar difference, the difference in the level in the two measuring tubes is expected to be about 2.5 m, divided by 0.7, the density of fuel. You could do that even with no head of water, just to make sure that the regulator maintains Pairbox (= ambiant) + 0.25 bar, and with no leak. Took some pictures, but failed to muster the courage to complete the corresponding webpage on Contrails ! http://contrails.free.fr/engine_regul_en.php BTW, we did not exactly use water, but a special scientific liquid with better visibility : the remaining wine in the bottle left from the meal we just had in the hangar on that particular Sunday...;-) FWIW, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:41 PM PST US From: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why? Hi Frans, I was having a similar problem with my 914. Mine was running rough and stumbling at high power, but only at altitudes above 10,000'. The fuel differential pressure gauge would drop and engine run worse with more power applied. I replaced the carb bowl gaskets with new after inspecting the floats and now it runs perfectly again. I think one of the gaskets leaked at high manifold pressure, low external pressure, causing a fluctuation in the fuel/air box gauge and very rough due to the imbalance. I wonder if you might be experiencing the same problem? Seems more likely than a problem with the regulator. Have you already ruled this out? Kevin On Aug 25, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Frans Veldman wrote: > > On 07/31/2012 10:57 PM, Frans Veldman wrote: > >> I will check the system thoroughly and see if I can find any abnormalities. > > An update about this problem. > > (For those who didn't follow the conversation; it is about a sudden fuel > pressure drop on a Rotax 914 when applying take off power). > > 1) The waste gate appears to function normally. It is not binding, it > cycles normally when applying power to the TCU. > 2) The fuel flow exceeds 120 liters per hour. So it has nothing to do > with the fuel filters or fuel pumps. > > After confirming this, I changed my focus on the fuel pressure > regulator. I disconnected the airbox pressure connector and put a small > hose and syringe on it. With the syringe I could imitate a rising > pressure in the airbox (like the turbo spooling up during TO power). > > What I found was this: > 1) When I increase the reference pressure, I hear the fuel pump > labouring for a short while, while it has to cope with the higher back > pressure. > 2) Whatever pressure I apply to the reference port, it quickly > disappears. There is no external leak according to a "soap" test. The > only possibility is that the air escapes via the fuel return line. (I > did check the syringe and the hoses, this is not where the pressure > escapes). I think that the fuel pressur regulator should not bleed away > the reference pressure. > 3) When the reference pressure increases, the fuel pressure lags behind. > It comes up after a short while. It looks like is not a fuel pump > problem, it is the regulator that responds slowly. > 4) If I pull the syringe (instead of pushing), there is not so much lag. > It also looks like the fuel pressure regulator holds an underpressur > better than an overpressure. This could mean there is a pinhole leak in > the diaphragm, it lets air more easily out than fuel in. > > My conclusion is that the fuel pressure regulator is faulty, binding > and/or internally leaking. Any comments about this? > > Should I replace the diaphragm or the whole regulator? > > Thanks, > Frans > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.