---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/29/12: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today (goff) 2. 01:06 AM - Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel (Remi Guerner) 3. 01:43 AM - Re: Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today (David Joyce) 4. 01:44 AM - Re: Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today (Rowland Carson) 5. 02:21 AM - Re: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel (Jan de Jong) 6. 04:28 AM - Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel (Remi Guerner) 7. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel (Jan de Jong) 8. 09:52 AM - Trailers (david park) 9. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel (Ken Carpenter) 10. 10:55 AM - Landing Technique (John Greenhalgh) 11. 11:45 AM - Re: Landing Technique (Tim Ward) 12. 01:49 PM - Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Alan Carter) 13. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Karl Heindl) 14. 02:33 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C2=A35?= and 50 minutes Control Lock (Alan Carter) 15. 02:55 PM - Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Alan Carter) 16. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Karl Heindl) 17. 04:04 PM - Fixed Aileron Trim Tab (Alan Carter) 18. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Karl Heindl) 19. 04:11 PM - Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Alan Carter) 20. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (craig) 21. 05:54 PM - Re: Fixed Aileron Trim Tab (bill) 22. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Gilles Thesee) 23. 07:04 PM - Re: Fixed Aileron Trim Tab (Robert Borger) 24. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop (Paul McAllister) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today From: "goff" Peter Field and I are flying G-CHOX to the LAA AGM at Turweston today. Any other Europas coming? Peter Field & Goff Moore G-CHOX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384189#384189 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:43 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel From: "Remi Guerner" Jan, Thank you for providing this weight analysis. I am very interested in the Beringer stuff for the mono but I have some doubts about the weight savings they claimed. What type and size of tyre was installed on the Europa wheel you weighted at 10.8 kg? Remi Guerner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384190#384190 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:15 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today G-XSDJ with Rowlad Carson & myself, David Joyce On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 00:37:44 -0700 "goff" wrote: > > > Peter Field and I are flying G-CHOX to the LAA AGM at >Turweston today. Any other Europas coming? > > Peter Field & Goff Moore > G-CHOX > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384189#384189 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying in to LAA AGM at Turweston today From: Rowland Carson On 29 Sep 2012, at 08:37, goff wrote: > Peter Field and I are flying G-CHOX to the LAA AGM at Turweston today. Any other Europas coming? > > Peter Field & Goff Moore > G-CHOX Goff - I have cadged the right seat with David Joyce in G-XSDJ from Staverton (sorry - Gloucestershire International). in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:21 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel Remi, I weighed the bits on the picture together, making 10.8 +/- 0.1 kg. The tyre is the original Europa one. It says: TITAN, tube type, 4 ply, 8.00 - 6, turf glide, not for highway use. I wonder how many flyers have used this tyre in operation and for how long. Jan ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel From: "Remi Guerner" Thanks Jan, As far as I remember this Carlisle tyre weighs about 0.7 kg less than the AirTrac 8.00-6, when new. Based on your figures, that means that for those already using the AirTrac the weight saving provided by the Beringer kit would be in the 2.2 - 2.7 kg range. A significant portion of this saving (0.9kg) comes from the removal of the tube, as this is a tubeless system. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384198#384198 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:27 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel Remi, Thank you for the tyre weight information. I didn't know the Titan tyre was so relatively light weight. B.t.w., guessing at the weight of the omitted parts in both kits I believe the ultimate weight savings, using similar tyres, will be closer to 2.2 kg than to 2.7 kg. Jan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Trailers From: david park I am going to convert my Mono G-LDVO to Trike, Nev has been primed! For the job? As a result I will have a mono trailer for sale, this trailer was renovated and re-galvanised by Nev when I purchased it, looking for 700. Will not be available until November December? I will therefore need a trike trailer if anyone has one available to sell? Dave Park Mob 07789 755 301 Home 0161 282 2137 Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: beringer wheel & brake for monowheel From: Ken Carpenter I have used one over 500 hours mainly off grass runway Sent from my iPad On Sep 29, 2012, at 5:19 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: > Remi, > > I weighed the bits on the picture together, making 10.8 +/- 0.1 kg. > The tyre is the original Europa one. It says: > TITAN, tube type, 4 ply, 8.00 - 6, turf glide, not for highway use. > > I wonder how many flyers have used this tyre in operation and for how long. > > Jan > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:07 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Landing Technique From: John Greenhalgh I would like to hear pilots views on what technique they use for repeatable good landings. I have been using 60/65 kts on finals then flaring at about 20 foot, attempting to keep the aircraft close and parallel with the ground with a gradual nose up attitude. I have now been introduced to adding a squirt of power during the final landing phase to improved elevator authority which should give greater vertical control. I would welcome views on this topic. John ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:15 AM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Landing Technique John, Monowheel technique. 65kts on final. 55kt over the fence/threshold, a two stage flare due to the f ast wing, first to arrest the descent, pause, then second, flare slowly, bri nging the stick back to contact main wheel, then bring the stick back fully a nd brake, keep straight with rudder anticipating turns from side to side. SHORT landing, aim for a point, speed 45kts over the threshold, place aircra ft on the ground at the first flare and hold stick fully back, brake. 20ft too high, closer to the ground to arrest descent, power not usually nec essary in flare unless a big bounce occurs then yes it is good. Works well. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 30/09/2012, at 6:49 AM, John Greenhalgh wrote: > I would like to hear pilots views on what technique they use for repeatabl e good landings. > > I have been using 60/65 kts on finals then flaring at about 20 foot, attem pting to keep the aircraft close and parallel with the ground with a gradual nose up attitude. > > I have now been introduced to adding a squirt of power during the final la nding phase to improved elevator authority which should give greater vertica l control. > > I would welcome views on this topic. John > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:51 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop From: "Alan Carter" Hi Graham. That all sounds logical to me, but I am just wondering why some Europa,s have two blades and others three, as it seems three would be the best. However i notice in the hanger at Headcorne many performance and aerobatic aircraft are fitted with a two bladed prop which caused me to think why.?? The only reason i would think that its more stronger but was wondering if there were any other benefits ? Did 3 hours today all when well. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384247#384247 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:18 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop Hi Alan=2C I think the vast majority of GA aircraft have 2 blade props.Mine has 2 blad es=2C or at least I did until recently. I chose it partly because of the mo torglider wings for better visibility when feathered. Other advantages are: cheaper=2C less weight=2C it is much easier to remove the bottom cowling =2C it sounds better=2C easier to ship if you need an overhaul.The only sna g with the Europa is: because it has to be longer it is unsuitable for the mono=2C and the trigear needs to have the nose raised a bit.It is just as s mooth as the 3-blade=2C so long as your carbs are properly synchronized. Karl > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop > From: alancarteresq@onetel.net > Date: Sat=2C 29 Sep 2012 13:48:54 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > t> > > Hi Graham. > That all sounds logical to me=2C but I am just wondering why some Europa =2Cs have two blades and others three=2C as it seems three would be the bes t. However i notice in the hanger at Headcorne many performance and aeroba tic aircraft are fitted with a two bladed prop which caused me to think why .?? The only reason i would think that its more stronger but was wondering if there were any other benefits ? > Did 3 hours today all when well. > > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384247#384247 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:13 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C2=A35?= and 50 minutes Control Lock From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. This may be of interest to you if your like me with only a fiver and 50 minutes to spare. Its a control lock, effective and very simple to make in 50 minutes. Ingredients. Just a length of 5/8 Dowel , Two copper T pieces, the ones with the solder in are slightly longer, you could use one of each as i have. Couple of pop rivets , bit of Velcro and Yellow tape, touch of Araldite, and a lick of paint, ( pop in the oven for 50 minutes) I like mine to push against the seat absolutely no movement, for storage it is clipped up on the cockpit ceiling , but you could shorten it with a cap just beyond the Velcro straps, I could not remember if the controls are locked in Neutral or Fully down, so i stuck two Velcro straps on, take you choice what's best to uses. Weight 200 grams. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384252#384252 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg0875_136.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:46 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop From: "Alan Carter" Hi Karl. Well we do have some reasons why. Less weight ? Smooth as a a 3 bladed prop.? I no nothing, but i would guess the more blades the smoother, think of of a one bladed propeller. There quit a lot when you look into it, may be more . Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384256#384256 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:15 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop Alan=2C I know you are right=2C but I am only going by my own experience=2C because I have both. Karl > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop > From: alancarteresq@onetel.net > Date: Sat=2C 29 Sep 2012 14:53:08 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > t> > > Hi Karl. > Well we do have some reasons why. > Less weight ? > Smooth as a a 3 bladed prop.? > I no nothing=2C but i would guess the more blades the smoother=2C think o f of a one bladed propeller. > > There quit a lot when you look into it=2C may be more . > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384256#384256 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:35 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fixed Aileron Trim Tab From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. Europa 914 Tri gear, Speed 125 kts in level flight, to keep the ball in the centre i have to hold on left rudder. The Rudder has a fixed Trim Tab which servo,s the rudder to the left ( same as holding left rudder on) But to maintain the ball in the centre i have to hold on more left rudder on and hold the stick to the right, If i look out at my left Aileron i can see its about the thickness of the tip trailing edge down. So i need more lift on the left wing to maintain lateral level. ( How can i achieve this ?) 1. If i put a fixed trim tab on the right aileron it will servo raise the aileron and keep the wings level, but i will have constant adverse drag maybe only a very small amount, Also will a fixed aileron tab effect the mass balance of the ailerons, ( its only 4 x 1 1/2 of very thin alloy plate) 2. If i fix a Tab to the left flap outer edge, could i generate sufficient extra lift to compensate, so the ailerons remain in line (neutral). Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384264#384264 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:48 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop I forgot to mention=2C less drag is another difference. > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop > From: alancarteresq@onetel.net > Date: Sat=2C 29 Sep 2012 14:53:08 -0700 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > t> > > Hi Karl. > Well we do have some reasons why. > Less weight ? > Smooth as a a 3 bladed prop.? > I no nothing=2C but i would guess the more blades the smoother=2C think o f of a one bladed propeller. > > There quit a lot when you look into it=2C may be more . > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384256#384256 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:08 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop From: "Alan Carter" Karl. No, I am never sure of myself, some times things work in the reverse to what one would think, that's why i posted the question. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384267#384267 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:18 PM PST US From: "craig" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop If you look at the current "production" aircraft both fixed wing and rotor they are all moving to 5 blades or More, Personally I think that speaks volumes. Regards and good building Craig Do Not Archive Well we do have some reasons why. Less weight ? Smooth as a a 3 bladed prop.? I no nothing, but i would guess the more blades the smoother, think of of a one bladed propeller. There quit a lot when you look into it, may be more . Alan ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:50 PM PST US From: bill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fixed Aileron Trim Tab Alan, What I did to correct the same problem was to put a stop in to keep the port flap down sightly when fully retracted. Mine is a mono so a bit different to the Tri gear to achieve. It certainly worked for me and had not effect on performance. For aileron trim to balance between one up and fully loaded I have a small bungee cord from the lower part of the stick to the tunnel. I only need this when one up as fully loaded my plane is balanced. ZK CHV Mono 914 Airmaster 1020hrs And just for interest, yesterday I attended the first flight of a DeHavilland Mosquito FB26 at Ardmore Airport in NZ. This is the only flying Mosquito in the world and was built scratch from the original plans in New Zealand. Two Rolls Royce Merlins together makes a wonderful sound. Sue and Bill Sisley On 30/09/2012 12:04 p.m., Alan Carter wrote: > > Hello All. > Europa 914 Tri gear, Speed 125 kts in level flight, to keep the ball in the centre i have to hold on left rudder. > The Rudder has a fixed Trim Tab which servo,s the rudder to the left ( same as holding left rudder on) > But to maintain the ball in the centre i have to hold on more left rudder on and hold the stick to the right, > If i look out at my left Aileron i can see its about the thickness of the tip trailing edge down. > So i need more lift on the left wing to maintain lateral level. ( How can i achieve this ?) > 1. If i put a fixed trim tab on the right aileron it will servo raise the aileron and keep the wings level, but i will have constant adverse drag > maybe only a very small amount, Also will a fixed aileron tab effect the mass balance of the ailerons, ( its only 4EUR? x 1 1/2EUR? of very thin alloy plate) > 2. If i fix a Tab to the left flap outer edge, could i generate sufficient extra lift to compensate, so the ailerons remain in line (neutral). > > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384264#384264 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:55 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop craig a crit : > > If you look at the current "production" aircraft both fixed wing and rotor > they are all moving to 5 blades or > More, Personally I think that speaks volumes. > Craig, Karl and all, Karl gave a good number of the pros and cons of 2-blade vs 3-blade. As has been stated, drag is also to be taken into account, as well as propulsion efficiency. The main advantage of 3-blade props with small engines is reduced diameter, for ground clearance or reduced tip speed (= noise and drag). That's why 3 or more blades are used on airplane when noise reduction is at a premium. Apart from the above, there are few engineering reasons for adding more blades on low power aircraft. (100 hp is not much for an aero engine). Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fixed Aileron Trim Tab From: Robert Borger Bill & Others, Dang! I was hoping that would be Ardmore, Oklahoma. Would I love to see that Mosquito fly in person. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Sep 29, 2012, at 7:53 PM, bill wrote: Alan, ZK CHV Mono 914 Airmaster 1020hrs And just for interest, yesterday I attended the first flight of a DeHavilland Mosquito FB26 at Ardmore Airport in NZ. This is the only flying Mosquito in the world and was built scratch from the original plans in New Zealand. Two Rolls Royce Merlins together makes a wonderful sound. <548234_422729257784507_537658472_n.jpg> Sue and Bill Sisley ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Arplast PV 50 Prop From: Paul McAllister Hi all, I am just curious to understand if a 3 blade propellor is more efficient at higher altitudes, aka >12k. Thanks, Paul On Saturday, September 29, 2012, Gilles Thesee wrote: > Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > craig a =E9crit : > >> >> If you look at the current "production" aircraft both fixed wing and rot or >> they are all moving to 5 blades or >> More, Personally I think that speaks volumes. >> >> > > Craig, Karl and all, > > Karl gave a good number of the pros and cons of 2-blade vs 3-blade. > As has been stated, drag is also to be taken into account, as well as > propulsion efficiency. > The main advantage of 3-blade props with small engines is reduced > diameter, for ground clearance or reduced tip speed (= noise and drag). > That's why 3 or more blades are used on airplane when noise reduction is at > a premium. > Apart from the above, there are few engineering reasons for adding more > blades on low power aircraft. (100 hp is not much for an aero engine). > > Best regards, > -- > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > > =====**=================== ===========**= atronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> =====**=================== ===========**= =====**=================== ===========**= com/contribution> =====**=================== ===========**= > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.